---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Re: Do you ever feel bad? (BShotola)
  first batch problems. no carbonation (C)
  Merry Christmas (for those who are Christians, a chuckle for those who aren't) (Steve)
  Re: Dry Hopping in Secondary (Steve)
  BHC7 Judging Information ("Brett Schneider")
  Re: Tap Water (Martin_Brungard)
  It must be in the Aussi water ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Re: starting syphon (Jeff Renner)
  Cloudy StarSan ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Alcohol Estimation (AJ)
  Grain Life? (Dustin Norlund)
  New Use for Old Grain ("Ray Daniels")
  sour mashing oatmeal for an extract based stout ("Sam T")
  Mice ("Kensler, Paul")
  Re: cloudy Star San ("Brian Lundeen")
  N/A Alcohol Level? (Epic8383)
  Who's Smarter? (Epic8383)
  A brewers Christmas tree ("Don Van Valkenburg")
  Siphon Starter (Mjbrewit)
  PID gain ranges, thanks!  Controller design available ("Dave Howell")
  Irish Ale Yeasts ("Adam Ralph")
  The Burradoo School Of Brewing Balance ("Phil & Jill Yates")


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*
Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 03:09:38 EST
From: BShotola at aol.com
Subject: Re: Do you ever feel bad?

Do I feel bad? No, but that's the yeast of my worries! It's my son I'm 
worried about:

My six year old cried and blubbered when he saw me emptying the carboy dregs 
into the sink one day. It seems I had been a bit too complimentary in 
praising the miracles of these little beings, and my sensitive boy equated 
pouring them down the drain with committing murder.

The poor lad was distraught, crying on and on, so we ended up scooping some 
up with a spoon and putting it in a flask with some fresh wort. From that day 
on, whenever I am pouring out yeast, we save him some in a jar with some wort 
and an airlock on it. This is his yeast for experiments. He loves the 
humanity of a repitch.

My son is quickly learning all the steps in brewing beer, temperatures and 
pH, and so on. He has his own flask, thermometer, pH strips, microscope, 
etc., and fancies himself a scientist. He loves the wort chiller, the 
sprinkling sparge arm, the co2 bottle, the propane burner (and who among us 
does not?) 

I wonder if I am creating a problem, since he won't be able to legally drink 
beer for another, say, fifteen years?

Anybody else been through this? Am I taking him down the wrong road? The kid 
loves the science, and I do let him have a small nip of each batch to see 
what I am all jazzed about. 

Bob Shotola
Yamhill Oregon



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 05:46:11 -0500
From: C <chow at engineer.com>
Subject: first batch problems. no carbonation

Hello this is my first post to the HBD
Let me just say that over these past few months this listserv has been an 
indispensable resource for me.

Heres my question. After about 1 week after bottling, I decided i wanted to 
sample a bottle to see how it was doing. I stuck one in the fridge and 
opened it up the next day. Its flat! Im guessing that the yeast died on 
me..? Heres some of the details of my fermentation times and what not.
sg ~1.050
6.6lbs of LME
16oz Belgain Carmel Pils
16oz American 2row
2oz Cascade boil
1oz Cascade 40min
2tsp. Irish Moss
1tsp Gypsum
Danstar Windsor Ale yeast (dry)

Boiled and cooled to 80 strained into primary carboy. Pitched yeast. 
Fermented for 10 days at around 78F (i live in florida) Transfered into a 
secondary carboy and dry hopped with 1oz Liberty.  Bottled with 3/4 cup 
dextrose 10 days later. fg~1.015. Opened bottle 1 week later to find only 
flat beer.  :-(

Do you think the high temperature had something to do with it? Could it 
just be that since the temp was high the yeast consumed the malt quickly 
then died before they carbonate the beer? One thing I noticed is that when 
i did bottle the beer it was cloudy but after a few days in the bottles the 
cloudiness went away and i could see a layer of sediment in every bottle.

? Wait it out? is this normal?

Thanks!
Chris


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 04:24:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve <gravelse at yahoo.com>
Subject: Merry Christmas (for those who are Christians, a chuckle for those who aren't)

Thought someone on this list would appreciate the
following:

'Twas The Homebrewer's Night Before Christmas
Author: Unknown
Submitted by Unknown on 12-20-1998
Genre: Long-Winded, Rating: 2.21, Suitability: PG-13 

'Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the
house,
Every creature was thirsty, including the mouse...
The steins were empty, and the bottles were too
The beer had been drunk with no time to brew.

My family was nestled all snug in their beds
While visions of Christmas Ale foamed in their heads.
Mama in her kerchief lamented the drought,
She craved a pilsner and I, a stout.

When out on the lawn, there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from my chair to see what was the matter.
Away to the kitchen, I flew like a flash,
Opening the door with a loud bang and crash!

I threw on the switch and the lights, all aglow,
Gave a luster of mid-day to the brew-pot below.
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear
But Gambrinus himself, the patron of beer.

With a look in his eye, so lively and quick,
He said, "You want beer? Well, here, take your pick."
More rapid than eagles, his recipes came
As he whistled and shouted and called them by name.

"Now, Pilsener! Now, Porter! Now, Stout and Now
Maerzen!
On, Bitter! On, Lager! On, Bock and On Weizen!"
"To the top of the bottles, the short and the tall,
Now brew away, brew away, and fill them all!"

As dried hops before a wild hurricane fly,
And then, without warning, settle down with a sigh,
So towards the brew-pot, the ingredients flew,
Malt extract, roasted barley and crystal malt, too.

And then in a twinkling, I heard it quite plain,
The cracking open of each barley grain.
As I drew in my head and was turning around,
Into the kitchen, he came with a bound.

He was dressed like a knight, from his head to his
toes,
With an old family crest adorning his clothes.
A bundle of hops, he had flung on his back,
And the brewing began when he opened his pack.

His hops were so fragrant! His barley, how sweet!
The adjuncts included Munich malt and some wheat.
The malted barley was mashed in the tun,
Then boiled with hops in the brew-pot 'till done.

Excitement had me gnashing my teeth,
As the sweet smell encircled my head like a wreath.
Beer yeast was pitched, both lager and ale,
The wort quickly fermented, not once did it fail.

It was then krausened, or with sugar primed,
And just being bottled when midnight had chimed.
A wink of his eye and a twist of his head,
Soon gave me to know, I'd be shortly in bed.

He spoke not a word but kept on with his work,
And capped all the bottles, then turned with a jerk.
And laying a finger alongside his nose,
He belched (quite a burp!) before he arose.

Clean-up was easy, with only a whistle,
And away the mess flew, like the down on a thistle.

And I heard him exclaim, 'ere he left me the beer,
"Merry Christmas to all and a HOPPY New Year!"



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 05:09:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve <gravelse at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dry Hopping in Secondary

>Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:00:10 -0500
>From: Chris Hatton <Chatton at aca-insurance.com>
>Subject: Dry Hopping in Secondary

>Having great trouble posting my message (says greater
>than 80 chars in length), although I counted and it
>wasn't. Is there a conspiracy going on? Anyway, I am
>dry hopping an English style IPA (all-grain)with 1 oz
>of East Kent Goldings (if memory serves me
correctly)>in a muslin sack. How long should I leave
it in >there? It's been sitting inside my carboy for
about 4 >days, and I'm planning to leave the beer in
the >secondary fermenter for about 2 weeks. Chris
Hatton

Chris,

I can't help with the 80 chars problem but, I can help
with the dry hopping issue.  Leave it in as long as
you can.  I dry hop in my keg, not the secondary, and
leave the hops in until the keg is dry.  I've had
commercial beers that dry hop their kegs and send them
to the distributors and don't remove the hops until
the keg is returned.  If you plan on kegging your
beer, and like the hop aroma that dry hopping adds,
put some more hops in your keg!  It can't hurt and
adds quite an aroma to the brew.

Steve
"Homebrew, it's not just a hobby, it's an adventure!"



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:26:02 -0500
From: "Brett Schneider" <bikenbrew at hotmail.com>
Subject: BHC7 Judging Information

For any interested people out there who might have some time to judge a few 
beers in Febrewary 2001, here's an update about our plans for the 7th annual 
Boston Homebrew Competition. I am the judge coordinator for the event, so 
please add me and my email address to your books!

Tim Holland is the competition organizer and will be posting the formal 
information about the competition including all schedules and entry packets 
in the near future.

The main competition is Saturday, Febrewary 10th at the Northeast Brewing 
Company (NEBC) in Alston, MA starting at 8:30AM with sign-in and finishing 
by 6PM, which is when we need to be cleaned up and out.

Our plans also include larger flight pre-judging the week before starting 
Sunday 03FEB PM and finishing by THUR 08FEB. This schedule is pretty open as 
of now, but once we do data entry we will know how many flights will be done 
pre-comp, and have local club members hosting and judging. We are trying to 
minimize judge fatigue and the number of preliminary rounds / mini BOS 
rounds to ensure a timely event on competition day. Last year we had 419 
entries and expect the same or more this year so we have our work cut out.

Any interested judges and stewards for the competition on Febrewary 10th, 
and people who may be able to help judge during the week leading up to the 
competition, should contact me at the address below, and include the subject 
line indicated for the mail sorting filters to do their magic. Same header 
for judge or steward and I will sort the rest:

BikeNBrew at hotmail.com
Subject line:  BHC7 Judging

Thanks for the read! We're looking forward to your judging support and 
anticipating the pleasure of judging your entries.

Brett Schneider
BHC7 Judge Coordinator
Boston Wort Processors


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:22:35 -0500
From: Martin_Brungard at urscorp.com
Subject: Re: Tap Water

A good point was made regarding topping up wort with tap water...It depends
on the location and source. But there are always other infection sources
lurking for all of us.

Brewers on a well system without chlorination could have contamination at
any time. It can also come and go depending on the aquifer source. The
other consideration is your home piping system. Any component could harbor
critters. This fact is made worse if you're on an unchlorinated water
source, since any infection in the piping or faucets will probably linger.

Brewers on municipal systems will probably have chlorinated water. But, in
some water systems, the chlorine residual can drop below sanitary limits in
portions of the delivery system and local contamination may occur.

Regardless of a municipal water system's sanitation, there are multiple
infection vectors at our homes. In Gainesville, FL about 7 years ago, they
had a cryptosporidium outbreak that they finally traced back to an outdoor
nozzle at a mop cleaning station that someone had vandalized by smearing
dog poop on. Someone had used the nozzle sometime later to fill up large
drink coolers with gatorade. This is an extreme example, but we all should
recognize the possibility. Outdoor faucets and hoses could be infected by
something as simple as the dog licking it or a frog pooping in it. Indoor
faucets can be contaminated by the kids getting their hands or mouth on the
faucet nozzle or maybe the nozzle came in contact with the water in the
dog's dish as you were refilling it. These scenarios are not widespread,
but you need to recognize that they can and do occur. So no one should
consider themselves immune from water system contamination. Another source
for contamination is the aerator nozzle on most indoor faucets. They are a
great location for a population of critters to grow and prosper.

You may say that you never get sick from your tap water. You all have
probably heard of people in underdeveloped countries drinking less than
pristine water and they keep surviving. And for people living in developed
countries visiting a foreign country and immediately getting sick after
drinking the local water. All organisms are relatively resilient. If they
have a minor infection and survive it, they will develop an immunity to it.
You have heard this before: 'that which doesn't kill you, makes you
stronger'.

You would probably have no idea if your tap water has a minor infection in
it from your own response to drinking the water. Unfortunately, our wort
doesn't have that immunity. The only things we can do to reduce the chance
of infection are to make sure that everything we put in is sterile and to
pitch lots of yeast to crowd out any bad critters.

I recently upgraded my brewing practices by purchasing a carbon filter unit
that I use for all my brewing water. This takes care of the chlorine
problem, but these units are notorious as havens for bacterial growth,
especially when they are only occasionally used. For this reason and the
others I list above, it is still very important to BOIL ALL WATER used in
brewing. If you have gone to the trouble and expense to  create a batch of
brew for your enjoyment, I think that we cannot afford to risk our time and
money when such a simple solution is available.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:08:33 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: It must be in the Aussi water

First Yates, and Sanders, now Pivo.  All these lengthy, un-understandable
posts.  It must be the water.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:36:30 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: starting syphon

"Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> wrote:

>How do I start a syphon when racking?
>
>I suck on it.


So do I.  I did it for years with practicing safe sucking with no 
problems, but for another good many years I've used a siphon starter. 
That's just a two inch (5 cm) piece of broken racking cane (which any 
brewer of more than a few months standing will have).  I sanitize 
this with the rest of my racking equipment, then insert it into the 
into a glass for quality assurance purposes, then pinch the hose shut 
just above the plastic tube and remove it.  And, yes, I use my washed 
hands for this with no gloves.  Just lucky, I guess.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:54:50 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: Cloudy StarSan

Andrew Avis asks about cloudy Star San.

Star San should be mixed with distilled or de-ionized or reverse osmosis
water. I have batches that are 3 months old absolutely clear.

It will work mixed with most tap water, but it will soon react and the pH
will rise above 3.  When the pH rises above 3 the solution becomes cloudy.
When this happens it can be refreshed with an addition of Star San. I do not
believe in using it as a no-rinse sanitizer after it is more than double
strength.

It is not effective as a sanitizer when it is cloudy, at least we do not
think it is, and will continue on the side of caution until Five Star
indicates otherwise.

The acid in Star San is phosphoric, just as in Iodophor.  In both of these
solutions the phosphoric is required to ensure the pH is low enough for the
active sanitizer to work.  I do not think that you should mix them together.

You could use plain phosphoric acid to reduce the pH of your tap water prior
to adding Star San, but for the quantity that you use, it's easier to simply
use RO or distilled water to mix instead of tap water. A gallon of Star San
should last you many batches.


regards,

Stephen Ross

Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com   www.paddockwood.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:01:05 -0400
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Alcohol Estimation

Chris Campagna asked about estimating the alcohol loss when a LA stout
is heated. This can be done in several ways but doubtless the simplest
would be to restore the heated beer to its original volume (this is
important) with water, mix thoroughly and then measure the specific
gravity. Convert to Plato ( see + below). Then subtract the Plato value
from the original Plato value. Now multiply by the factor  0.39661 +
0.0017091*P + 1.0788*P*P where P is the original Plato value. The
product is the ABW. Convert to ABV by multiplying by the specific
gravity of the beer and dividing by 0.791. Do the same using the value
of the specific gravity of the beer before heating to obtain an estimate
of the pre treatment alcohol content. The difference is the amount of
alcohol boiled off.

Because the drop in specific gravity as alcohol is added to a sugar
solution is linear with ABW (Tabarie's Principal) another approach would
be to measure the True Extract (TE)* of the pre treatment beer and the
Apparent Extract (AE - this is the specific gravity of the beer
converted to Plato) of the pre and post treatment beers. Again, the
volume of the beer post treatment should be made up to what it was pre
treatment. Then

ABWpost = ABWpre(AEpost - AEpre)/(TE - AEpre)

+ To convert SG to plato use Plato = -616.868 + 1111.14*SG -
630.272*SG^2 + 135.997*SG^3
    (This is the "official" ASBC conversion)

* To measure True Extract fill a volumetric flask to the mark,
attemeperate to 20C and readjust to the mark if necessary. Transfer
quantitiatively (pour the beer, then rinse with small portions of
distilled water and add the rinsings) to a beaker and heat gently (slow
boil is OK) until volume is reduced to approximately 1/3. Transfer
quantitiatively back to volumetric flask, add distilled water to below
the mark, attemperate, make up to the mark and mix thoroughly. Measure
the specific gravity of the contents of the flask (reconstituted,
dealcoholized beer) as accurately as possible (narrow range hydrometer,
pycnometer....) and convert to Plato. Multiply this Plato value by the
specific gravity of the reconsituted beer and divide by the specific
gravity of the beer.




Return to table of contents


Date: 14 Dec 00 13:26:35 CST
From: Dustin Norlund <rv6 at address.com>
Subject: Grain Life?



Hi,

Due to building a home build aircraft my brewing has been on standby.  I am
nearing completion of the aircraft and now am looking to start brewing again. 
I had some grain in plastic 5 gallon buckets and some in bags.  The grain is 1
year old at this point, is it still ok?  Has anyone had experiance with old
grain?  It has been in the garage, so it has not been in the dry heat of the
house.  Any comments would help.  



Dustin Norlund
Owasso, OK
RV6 - Taxi Testing, Sand Ridge Airpark, Collinsville OK
KD5JXZ - 2M, 440, APRS




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:41:35 -0600
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: New Use for Old Grain

The Problem:

1 - Chicago is socked in with more snow that we've seen in one week for some
time.

2 - Under the best conditions, the term "two-car garage" is just barely
better than wishful thinking when you have a 25-foot wide city lot.

3 - My kids are too old for sand boxes and I have no pets, so sand, kitty
litter, kibble and other common winter friction-enhancers are not readily
available in my household.

4 - Kids have already had ONE snow day this week.  So I HAD to get the car
out of the garage and through the snow-filled alley so I could drive them to
school.

The Solution: the ubiquitous brewer's friend: malt!

Yes, I spread a good twenty or thirty pounds of Munich malt on the ground
around my garage and under my wheels this morning and it worked like a
champ!  And weep not my friends:  the bag in question was more than two
years old and had been sitting in the garage since my move to the new house
last winter.  Had it not been pressed into service in this manner, it would
probably have been tossed eventually anyway.

So forget the bag of cement in the back of your pickup truck or the
econo-sized load of kitty litter in the truck.  Chuck a 50 pound bag of
abused or outdated malt back there.  If it doesn't get you unstuck at least
you can nibble on it until help comes!

Next up: Comparing the relative friction coefficients of pilsener, Munich
and caramel malt.

(Just kidding.)

Ray Daniels
Editor-in-Chief
Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Phone: 773-665-1300
Fax: 773-665-0699
E-mail:  ray at aob.org


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:56:52 +1300
From: "Sam T" <taylors at powercor.co.nz>
Subject: sour mashing oatmeal for an extract based stout

I thought I'd share a technique which I tried in my last batch (only my 6th)
which some of you may be interested in trying (or avoiding, the results are
still
pending!)

I wanted to brew my first stout, and I wanted to use oatmeal to get the
"silky smooth" quality described in the brewing literature.

Being an extract brewer I'm not equipped for mashing, but because I really
wanted to try oatmeal I decided to try a partial mash with what I had
available.

With economy in mind, I went to the bulk bins in the supermarket and got 3
handfuls of instant oats, a handful of raw wheat, and a handful of "pearl
barley". This is barley with the outer husk removed which I've seen people
put in salads etc. The whole lot cost me just over $1.

The plan was to malt the wheat and barley myself, then mash them with the
oats to get a portion of "oatmeal extract" to boil with my pale malt
extract, hops, and steeped patent malt. While the de-husked pearl barley
did not seem ideal, it was the best I could find in the bulk bins.

Not knowing anything about malting beyond the concept of germinating the
grain, I just mixed all my grains together in a shallow dish, covered with
enough water to moisten everything, and put the dish on top of the hot water
cylinder. This was supposed to initiate germination of the wheat and
barley, whose diastatic powers were going to get to work on the oatmeal.

Well I was disappointed to find that after 24 hours it tasted sour and
somewhat
spoiled, not sugary as I was hoping. I left it for 2 more days to see what
would happen, and the whole thing turned into a bubbling purple mess. After
checking the HBD archives, I realised that I had inadvertantly created a
sourmash, and I was pleased to see how many of the sourmash discussions on
the HBD were with respect to stouts. Encouraged (and not to mention
pleasantly surprised) by what I had read, I decided to proceed.

I suppose the temperature above the cylinder would have been about 35-40degC
for the 72 hours. I then added more water and put the mash in a pot in the
oven set to ~60degC (+/- 10deg probably).

I didn't perceive much change after 1 and 1/2 hours, it was still quite
thick with the consistency of porridge, but I diluted it and attempted a
lauter.

I spooned some porridge into a colander set in another pot and poured over
some ~70degC water, gently shaking the colander seemed to work quite well.
The grains became visible again, and the water became creamy in colour and
consistency. It tasted sour and had a silky/creamy texture. The taste
reminded me of lemony yoghurt/sourdough bread. I took the colander out,
tossed the spent grain, and repeated with some more porridge.

When I'd done the whole lot some grain had got through the colander, but
this just sank to the bottom of my pot. I was able to pour off my smooth
"oat extract" into the boil without any grain.

Now never having seen or done one, I'm not sure how a proper full volume
mash with oats is supposed to come out. My oat extract was very cloudy, but
it was very fine and super smooth, and no gluey/starchy texture. I can't
comment
on the results yet because it's still too early, but I'll update progress as
it unfolds. If the results are OK I certainly recommend the method in terms
of economy and minimal required equipment for anyone doing extract brews.

I'd be interested in any thoughts from any of you guys on how well you think
my oatmeal has converted. I would have used malted grain for my primitive
partial mash if I'd had any, but in the small quantities I needed I could
only get kilned specialty malts, and I'm not sure how diastatic these are.
I also found the grain in the bulk bins to be much cheaper. If the raw
grain sourmash performs adequate conversion I'd like to try doing it with
just raw
wheat to add to my first lager, I'd appreciate some advice on whether this
is suitable.

I'm probably covering old ground here, but I couldn't get a clear idea from
the archives on the different effects of boiling/not boiling the sourmash.
Does the lactobaccillus keep growing in the fermenter? Is this only
suitable for some styles?

Also, re Adrian Levi's post on beginner's plight; Adrian I highly recommend
howtobrew.com if you're after an excellent resource for guys like you and me
who are just getting into brewing. My first ever brew 4 years ago was
pretty horrible, but I've just picked it up again this year and following
the
"enhanced" beginners' instructions (more malt no sugar, 1 hour boil with
hops, rack to
secondary) I've found it very easy to brew beers that I prefer to most
commercial products.  I'm also keen to try something clean and crisp soon,
I've just
secured a dedicated brewing refrigerator so I'm ready to try I reckon!

Sam T




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:38:40 -0500
From: "Kensler, Paul" <Paul.Kensler at Cyberstar.com>
Subject: Mice

Drew,
I use a plastic Gott cooler as my mash tun, and I had it set upside down in
my basement last year, drying out after use.  It was an unfinished basement,
with concrete floor and walls.  

If you use a cooler mash tun like I do, you know how delicious they smell
after a few uses - the mash odor just seeps into them and stays there, no
matter how hard you clean it.  Smelling my mash tun is like a little sniff
of heaven.

At some point, a little mouse figured that all that good smell meant that
there must be some really good food inside, and he tried to crawl in.
Somehow he managed to lift the tun up enough to slip half inside - but only
half inside before he got stuck and the weight of the mash tun crushed him.
A few days after brewing, my basement started to get that tell-tale smell...
I quickly found the culprit, stuck exactly halfway inside, dead, and very
smelly.

All those putrefied gases were trapped inside the cooler (remember it was
upside down) and my delightful-smelling Gott was seemingly ruined, but I
refused to give up.

I can't remember the exact process and procedure of what I did to get the
smell out, but it involved lots of elbow grease, lots of soaking, lots of
PBW, and lots of bleach.  In fact, I kept scrubbing and soaking even after I
couldn't smell any mousy evidence anymore.

There is a happy ending - I have moved to a mouse-free house, my mash tun is
working just fine with no funky smells...  and it is back to smelling like a
little bit o' heaven.

If bleach and PBW can get dead mouse out of a plastic cooler, I'm sure they
would work on a glass carboy...  Glass is much less permeable which should
make up for the fact that you can't apply as much elbow grease.  A good soak
and a stiff brush should get things back to spec.

Good luck -

Paul Kensler


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:40:38 -0600
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: cloudy Star San

Drew Avis writes of dead mice (don't even want to go there) and Star San:

> On another sanitization theme, I just started using StarSan, and I'm not
> sure if I'm using it correctly.  The instructions on the bottle are
> minimalist, and the Five Star web site promises full instructions "soon".
> As soon as I add 2 ml of the concentrate to a litre of water it turns
cloudy
>  - is this normal?

The correct  concentration for sanitizing is about 1.5 ml per liter, or two
tablespoons in 5 gallons (US, of course, there is nothing to be gained by
sticking to our oversized imperial gallon in this forum ).

As to whether cloudy is normal, speaking from a position of total ignorance,
I would say yes. It happens to me all the time. Now others have claimed that
cloudy means Star San no worky. I decided there was only one way to settle
this. I sent an email off to Star San guru Charlie Talley.

I think Charlie is still mad at me for pointing out that wine ph levels can
fall to the level where Star San is still active (it related to the
possibility of ML inhibition when using their sanitizer,), because the
bugger hasn't replied to me. Either that or he's hiding something. Come to
think of it, he never did give me a definitive answer on the ML question.

In any case, somebody here mentioned that they actually speak with this
fellow on occasion. Whoever that was, I think they should make use of their
connections to get the inside poop, the straight dope, the bee's knees...
oh, never mind the last one.

When is Star San effective? Is it when the pH is below 2.9, or when it's
clear enough to see mice at the bottom of a carboy, or both?

What say you, Charlie?

Brian

PS We just mark an X. It seems to work quite well. ;-)


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:45:22 EST
From: Epic8383 at aol.com
Subject: N/A Alcohol Level?

     I would imagine that if you had the wort o.g., the ruh beer f.g., and 
then the evaporated ruh beer s.g., you could easily calculate the % alcohol 
in a homebrewed n/a beer. If you want it to be stable for any length of time 
you would have to be strictly sanitary and handle it very gently (no 
splashing!). I would think you would have to force carbonate it also. With a 
little care and effort it sounds doable, though.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:51:06 EST
From: Epic8383 at aol.com
Subject: Who's Smarter?

In a message dated 12/14/00 12:23:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
homebrew-request@hbd.org writes:

<< Here's a question to ponder:  Are we using them or are they using us? >>

   I've read that yeast are the masters of the earth because they've trained 


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:04:09 -0800
From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <don at steinfillers.com>
Subject: A brewers Christmas tree

This falls into the category of - you know you are a homebrewer IF:
You have ever decorated a bottle tree with green bottles and lights for
Christmas.

Cheers & Happy Holidays
Don Van Valkenburg
brew at steinfillers.com
www.steinfillers.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:41:51 EST
From: Mjbrewit at aol.com
Subject: Siphon Starter

This is so easy its ridiculous.  I think I read it in BYO.  Simply sanitize a 
s-type airlock.  Place it into on the end of the tubing (most are even 
tapered), and suck on the airlock instead of the tube.  You can use a hose 
clamp or just quickly disconnect the airlock and place the tube into the 
vessel.  The only risk of contamination is from your finger holding the tube 


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:58:50 -0700
From: "Dave Howell" <djhowell at uswest.net>
Subject: PID gain ranges, thanks!  Controller design available



All:

Thanks to those who replied re: my post asking about gain ranges for analog
PIDs.

The most consistent answers (and matching some older material I found on the
Web about acid temperature control) were all in the 0-3x gain ranges for P &
I, and less for D.


I have since (mostly) completed a design for a unit containing 3 temperature
sensors with display, 2 PID controllers w/PWM control 0-98% duty cycle, and
two triac output sections (48-220V 40A RMS).  I'll make it available to the
HBD members, with some caveats:  it's in OrCAD or it's in .jpg; it has not
been built by me, but has been simulated with PSPICE; and it probably has
small errors as a result.  Also, I did not show some connections (LCD
display) and forgot the DPST NC switches to display setpoints vs. measured
value.  To put it more plainly: I cannot attest to the completeness or
accuracy of the design, nor do I wish to be held liable (or even
accountable) for something freely given.

I priced it with Digi-Key and with Newark (NAYY).  I didn't complete the
pricing with Arrow (NAYY).  The parts list, an Excel spreadsheet, shows the
best source (mostly Digi-Key).  The full-up design came to $198, in quantity
one.  This is not counting  wire and IC sockets for wirewrap, and is not
counting a heatsink for the triacs.   A stripped-down version with one PID
controller, one temp sensor/display, and one triac output priced at $115
(also not counting wirewrap costs or heatsink).

This is not in my budget this year, or even early next year, so I won't be
building the design.

Keep in mind that a digital self-tuning controller from someone such as
Omega (NAYY) is about $165 in the US.

In about a month, I'll be pricing (and designing) a PID controller built
with a STAMP module (a microcontroller widely available, sold by Parallax,
NAYY).

Until then, I'll be using just a PWM generator (the same as in my PID
design) and a solid-state relay to control the heater element in my new
RIMS.  I'll have to adjust it with the Mark I eyeball and a dial
thermometer.  (Note: The PWM generator can be built as a kit from many
places (such as RadioShack.com, NAYY):  a DC motor controller kit is about
$10 for a nice one with a PCB and potentiometer.  This and a SSR, about $26
for a 220V 25A model,  can be used to manually control a heater element
through a 5-95% duty cycle.)  These parts can be used later either in the
analog PID I designed, or with a digital embedded-microcontroller PID such
as a STAMP-based unit.



I don't have a Web page or the desire to build one.  If someone wants to
host the .jpg version of the schematics and the spreadsheet (plus maybe the
PSPICE output), let me know.  Until then, interested parties can send me
email, and I'll send them copies.  If enough people show interest, I'll
touch up the schematic to include the switch for the display of the setpoint
value.  If someone who actually designs analog circuits for a living wants
to correct any errors, please volunteer!  AND, who knows? if enough people
want to build one, we can get a PCB made, and drive the price of the
components down by the economies of scale.  This would be over a hundred
people to get roughly 23% price cuts, though.




Dave Howell
Due to a large thermal gradient, the center of the brewing universe may not
be precisely located at this time, but I am in sunny Arizona.



Costello: You know I'm a catcher too.
Abbott: So they tell me.
Costello: I get behind the plate to do some fancy catching, Tomorrow's
pitching on my team and a heavy hitter gets up. Now the heavy hitter bunts
the ball. When he bunts the ball, me, being a good catcher, I'm gonna throw
the guy out at first. So I pick up the ball and throw it to who?
Abbott: Now that's the first thing you've said right.

Costello: I don't even know what I'm talking about!



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:18:01 +0800
From: "Adam Ralph" <bluehillsbrewing at hotmail.com>
Subject: Irish Ale Yeasts

Greetings to the collective,

I was interested in finding out people's experiences with Wyeast's Irish Ale 
yeast compared to White Lab's Irish Ale yeast.  I have referred to their web 
sites and those of several other's but would appreciate the thoughts of 
people that have done comparisons.  What differences should I expect in the 
final beer if using one instead of the other?

Cheers,

Adam
Blue Hills Brewing
Perth, AUS.
Close to -180, -180 Rennerian.

PS. Thanks for fixing the character length problems Karl.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:58:39 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: The Burradoo School Of Brewing Balance

So who is the King of Blather?

Now that's not me. I'm King of Zero Content. Graham Sanders is King of North
Queensland and Doc Pivo is, well Doc Pivo is sounding like he is due for
further convalescence at the Burradoo Home For The Unstable.
Jeez, we just got him up and on his feet again only a few days ago. What is
going on?

What I'm wondering is just what it could be that troubles Mr S when he
cautions newbie brewers to ignore the blather which goes on in here.

Could it be his own extensive trail of blathering that rings him with guilt?
Who knows?
Still it was nice of him to hop down off his soap box and lend a hand.

I must say, the last bloke who asked me how to make a Tooheys New was taken
out the back and shot!!

The more I read in here the more I suspect poor old Steve is struggling to
make a decent beer.
Perhaps he really is the person to ask about making a Tooheys New.

On the other hand, I somewhat failed with my Bud replica. As Graham Sanders
pointed out, I actually put some flavour in it.
I don't know what Bud uses Graham but I put some hop flowers in mine. Just a
few, that was all it needed.

As with most things in life, you have to find a balance.
Knowing nothing about the science of brewing is not likely to help your
brewing.
Knowing everything about the science of brewing (or worse still, trying to
prove to everyone that you do) is in my view a failing.

At the Burradoo School Of Brewing Balance we teach students to blend
ignorance with excellence, and make bloody good beer.
Graham Sanders was one of our better students until he was caught rolling in
the mud with Marilyn, and was sent home in disgrace. He's been real cranky
about it ever since!

But I'm glad he liked the rice lager. Had he of kept his mind on the job
when he was here, he might have made something of himself and could have
become an assistant baron. But alas, he was more intent on crawling around
in bogs with crocs, snakes and genital sucking frogs, crying "Marilyn,
Marilyn, where are you?"

Cheers
Phil






Return to table of contents

---

HTML-ized on 12/15/00, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96