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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Weizenbier -- stuck fermentation, or just newbie impatience?? (Daniel Chisholm)
SWMBO teases DH (Frank Tutzauer)
all-grain questions (Warandle1)
will the anal-retentive pls stand up... (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
Can grolsch bottles handle higher carbonation (Wimpy48124)
most attenuative (leavitdg)
VEISALGIA (kbooth)
15.5 gallon fermentor ("Bruce Garner")
Temperature Sensors ("Pete Calinski")
Another Under Carbonation Problem ("Pete Calinski")
Motorized Valley Mill ("Bruce Garner")
dipstick, alternative to floor malted MO (Brian Lundeen)
HBD photo gallery? (Jeff Renner)
Sanke Fermenter (Richard Foote)
3 tier system plans, thoughts, and ideas (BOB Rutkowski)
DH & Dip Stick ("Penn, John")
Kettle Volume ("Mike Pensinger")
French & Jupp, Low carb beer (Dan Listermann)
finding rennerian ("Pete Calinski")
vacuum insulated Aero-Cans (Earl Atwood)
Re: HBD photo gallery? (The Man From Plaid)
motor mill 1 of 2 ("Marc Hawley")
motor mill 2 of 2 ("Marc Hawley")
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Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:42:33 +0000
From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc at nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Weizenbier -- stuck fermentation, or just newbie impatience??
Hi HBD, first post here, go easy on me.... (guess this is where I find
out about strange initiation rituals, eh? ;-)
I think I might be having problems with a batch of Weizenbier. Dunno if
it's a stuck fermentation, or a characteristic specific to wheat beers
that I simply don't know about. It's only my second-ever homebrew
batch, so don't rule out the simple stuff, OK? ;-)
I used 6.6 lbs of Briess "Bavarian Wheat" extract (label indicated that
is was 65% malted wheat, the remainder presumably malted barley). Since
I don't have a proper brew kettle yet, I used my largest available
kitchen stock pot, which is about 15 litres. I boiled the 6.6# of
extract with as much water as I dared put in, for an hour with 1 oz. of
Hallertauer pellets (actually: 1 hour with 0.5 oz, 20 minutes with 0.25
oz, 2 minutes with 0.25 oz). I cooled this concentrated wort by placing
the pot in the snow outside (OAT ~ -15C, or close to 0F)
After mostly cooling off, I mixed this (with generous aeration) with
enough water to make 23 litres (6 US gal). My O.G. was 1.038, which was
lower than I had intended (I was thinking 45-50). Upon calculating the
35 pts/gal/lb that the extract suggeted, and doing kgs-->lbs and
USGal-->litres, I realized my mistake was making a 23L batch instead of
a 19L/5 gal one. Not wanting to add corn sugar, I decided that I'd just
go with a lighter (strengthwise) beer, which hardly seemed like a bad
thing anyway for a weizen. Also, since I didn't have a means of
separating the hops fines, I left them in (being somewhat reassured by
the package suggesting that these hops could be used for boiling or for
dry hopping).
I hydrated a packet of Cooper's ale yeast in a mug of wort, then pitched
it. For the next two days, the fermentation was quite strong and
rewarding. The lock on the primary cycled 20-25 times per minute.
Then on the third day, everything was totally quiet, so I racked it into
my glass carboy that evening. I measured the gravity to be about 1.020
or so (I say "about" because I had difficuly with my hydrometer cocking
over and sticking to the side of my sample tube). There was a fair bit
of leftovers in the bottom of the primary, and though I didn't dare try
to salvage it and put it in to the carboy, I was damned if I was going
to sewer it -- so I put the dregs into three 0.5L beer mugs, covered
them with plastic film, and put them in the fridge. At this point the
liquid tasted fairly sweet and caramely, vaguely Guinness-y, which I
guessed would be because of the unfermented sugars.
Seeing absolutely zero action in the carboy the next day, I went to my
local brewing supply store and explained my problem. He told me that
since I used pure malt, I should expect a finishing gravity of
1.010-1.012 (OK, I thought, I'm 2/3 of the way there..). He also gave
me some brewers salts, which I could mix 1/2 tsp. of with some warm
water and stir it in with moderate agitation/aeration. Before doing
this I measured my gravity at 1.016-018, which could be a bit of a
reductino from my previous reading, or could be entirely within my
measurement error. This brewers' salt addition and agitation failed to
produce any visible fermentation activity the following day.
Now I was worried that my yeast was dead. Having nothing better to do,
I took some of the yeast sludge from one of my mugs in the frigde, put
it in a beer bottle with some warm water and corn sugar, and was treated
to an extremely enthusiastic fermentation within a couple of hours
(extremely enthusiastic: read brown stains up out and over the side --
good thing I had it on a tray!)
OK, so the yeast wasn't deead (at least when I racked it), and it's
happy to eat corn sugar. What about the sugars in my wort?
The next day, I again measured my carboy at 1.016-18 -- no change(!).
So I took some of the cold wort/sludge from my fridge, and prepared two
beer bottles: each ha a couple of teaspoons of sludge, plus four ounces
of cold wort. To one I added a teaspoon or two of corn sugar, and
marked that bottle. I shopok well, then covered both bottles' mouths
with plastic film (though there was 6-8 ozs of air headspace). After a
day of acclimatization to room temperature, the corn sugar-augmented one
was ticking away, but the unmodified one was still as ever.
And today, the gravity is still 1.016-1.018 (6 days after starting the
batch).
So what's wrong? Should I just wait a couple or three weeks and measure
then? (My concern is that I don't want the wort to go bad, if in fact
there are fermentable sugars there that my yeast aren't doing anything
with). Should I pitch some more or a different yeast? (a lager one
perhaps?)
FWIW, my whole reason for brewing this batch is a wonderful experience
(and my only one) with a wheat beer at a brewpub in Denver's
touristy/yuppie district in late June 1996. It was one of those hot,
sunny beautiful days, you might saw the sort of day that was made for
beer, and when my wife (who grew up doing exchange programs to southern
Germany) saw a wheat beer on the menu she suggested I order it. It was
a fairly light colored beer, with a uniform haze throughout, and served
fairly cold. Now I don't know if it was simply one of those days when
any beer is a great beer, but my gosh this pint was just wonderful, at
that time and at that place it seemed like pure beer perfection! Since
then I've never had the opportunity to try a wheat beer, even when I
visted Germany for a month in 1998.
So, what are my chances of recreating this sort of a beer? My wort
seems far too dark to ever turn into the sort of beer I enjoyed during
that hot summer day in Denver.....
Thanks for any and all suggestions.
- --
- Daniel
(Fredericton, NB Canada)
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:00:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: SWMBO teases DH
Ok, so SWMBO knows a thing or two about brewing having hung out with
me during numerous brew sessions and even having brewed a few batches
herself (she's got a tasty Celebration-Ale-style beer). She
definitely knows what Irish Moss is.
And she's also a wise ass.
Yesterday I come home and she greets me with a cheery "I've got a
present for you" and hands me a can of Irish Moss. Yes, a can. Full
of liquid. It's a drink! The label says: Big Bamboo Irish Moss
Jamaican Vanilla Drink. The ingredients are water, sugar,
carrageenan, some oil, flavorings, and preservatives. First the
Jamaicans gives us ginger beer, and now this.
--frank
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 23:40:46 EST
From: Warandle1 at aol.com
Subject: all-grain questions
Hi All,
It won't be long and I shall be making my first all-grain batch after 16
extract/grain batches. With the upgrade come some questions:
1. I will be making 10 gal batches. I figure I will have to add some length
to my 25ft immersion chiller. I would like to solder some more copper pipe
to the end of my current copper chiller. I will use a food-grade solder (I
think thats how it is referred to; I believe plumbers use it) along with flux
for the joint. My question is this: if the soldered joint is immersed in
the hot wort will that be a problem as far as getting a metal taste in my
beer?
2. I have a mash paddle a friend made for me. Very nice, one piece, made
from white oak. Also have a measuring stick for measuring liquid levels in
kettle--made from birch. Question: Do I finish or treat the wood in any
manner? I worried about the wood resins--maybe I should boil the wood in
water for a bit? Thought perhaps I should coat the wood with linseed oil
but thought that may be a bad idea. Varnish? Polyurethane? Do nothing?
3. Exactly when do I use the mash paddle? Just to mix the grain and water
at beginning of mash. (I'll be doing single infusion, at least at first.
The mash tun--from Hobby Beverage--is a cooler type) I did'nt think I'm
supposed to disturb the grains once you start to sparge.
Well thats it for now. And you guys thought I was going to ask about mash
temps and dextrins, or batch sparging vs some other type of sparging.
Sometimes its the little things that throw me.
Will Randle
Ashland, MO
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:38:58 +1100 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at aus.sun.com>
Subject: will the anal-retentive pls stand up...
YEt again the HBD has been popularised with anti-plastic
comment. I must spring to action.
A post commented on the nasties that can grow in the tap. Well
Buggar me if not after the last 4 years have i not had an infected
batch from putting a cleaned hose into the tap (not spiggot) and
racking into another fermenter.
This is most probably for a beer on the floor of the brewery (aka
Prince lane garage rear of #26) or my incredibley moldy fridge.
Never had a problem, even with the wildlife crawling all over as such.
Ahh you guys just have no sense of adventure!
Scotty
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:09:13 EST
From: Wimpy48124 at aol.com
Subject: Can grolsch bottles handle higher carbonation
Has anybody used Grolsch bottles for bottling beers with higher carbonation
levels such as Belgians? I brewed a beer that calls for a cup of sugar and I
haven't bottled much beer in the last few years so I'm not sure if they'll
handle it. I'm pretty sure given the thickness of Grolsch bottles compared to
regular ones that they'll stand up to it but will the gaskets or the wire
cage handle it? I'm not up on Belgians but I've read about putting them in
champagne bottles, corking and wiring them up. I'd rather not have to hunt up
the champagne bottles when I've got approx. 150 grolsch bottles hanging
about. After several years of kegging, it's not so bad bottling though as
it's kinda like a novelty. I'm not going to do it on a regular basis
though... Thanks for any imput on this subject.
Karl
ThunderMug Brewery
Dearborn, MI 48124
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 07:34:09 -0500 (EST)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: most attenuative
<Anthony Torrez asks which yeasts are most attenuative>:
My notes tell me that the more attenuative Wyeasts (ales) are:
Trappist Ale 3787
Danish 2042 and Bavarian 2206 and Kolsch 2565
Weihenstephan Wheat 3068 and American Ale 1056
as well as German Ale 1007
whereas, for Whitelabs the more attenuative are:
Calif Ale 001
German Ale/Kolsch 029
Belgian Wit 400
and Trappist 500, of course...
.Darrell
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:01:16 -0500
From: kbooth <kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: VEISALGIA
===============================================================
TODAY'S TIP: VEISALGIA
by Martha Barnette
(vye-SAL-juh)
(n.) An alcohol-induced hangover
You don't see this word every day, but it appeared recently in the
medical journal Annals of Internal Medicine, in an article about the
results of too much imbibing.
It's from the Norwegian "kveis," or "uneasiness following debauchery,"
and the Greek "algia," which means "pain" (as in the pain-reliever
called an "analgesic.")
"I'm so sorry, but I'm afraid I just can't come in to work today,
because I've been diagnosed with a terrible case of veisalgia."
Jim Booth writes...Call in sick and tell your boss your
diagnosis is veisalgia....but don't spell it so he can find it
in the medical dictionary. cheers, jbooth
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:57:19 -0600
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com>
Subject: 15.5 gallon fermentor
No one has talked about an open fermentor.
I use a 15.5 as my mash tun and fermentor. Mine is cut full 15" width at the
top of the straight side. It is easy to clean and I get the benefits of an
open fermentation. There is a 6" by 1/2" pipe nipple out the bottom that was
welded in just below the start of the curved bottom.
During the boil I remove the full diameter false bottom and valve and clean
the tun. Then I use a torch or idophor spray to sanitize it. I always torch
the 6" nipple (and 3/8" copper racking tubes for that matter). Torch
sanitizing the fermentor is neat because as you slowly move the torch the
evaporating damp left from rinsing tells you where you have been. I
disassemble the stainless ball valve and clean it thoroughly. I reassemble
the valve hand tight under idophor and shut it, locking sanitizer inside. I
have also put a 1/2" male plug on the open threads of the valve. I wrench
tighten the body of the valve after removing it from the bath. The valve
goes on the fermentor and I suspend it from the ceiling about chest high.
I counterflow chill with a magnetic coupled pump between the kettle and the
chiller. I clip an idophored footie nylon stocking hammock like across the
top of the fermentor and stick the outlet from the chiller in the open end.
Break and hops collect nicely in the sock and wort oozes out along the
length helping oxygenation. Pitching is easy with a 15" opening. I then drop
a sanitized Radio Shack indoor/outdoor thermometer probe in and cover the
fermentor with 17" plastic wrap my wife, a chef, gets me at her work. I put
a plastic beer tub around the fermentor and slide support under the tub.
This is my temperature controlling water bath. City water at a trickle is
all I need to control ale fermentation. The fermentor is suspended from
above so that at transfer time I drain out the cooling bath, remove the tub
and am left with my fermentor and sanitized valve hanging in the air. Take
off the plug, attach a hose and let gravity do the rest.
Bruce
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:56:06 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Temperature Sensors
I just ran across some interesting Temperature sensors from Dallas
Semiconductor. The DS1820 http://www.dalsemi.com/datasheets/pdfs/1820.pdf
is a three terminal device. Power, Ground and serial I/O. It transmits the
9 bit temperature back over the I/O line. Also, can be programmed to alarm
for over and under temperature. Multiple devices can share the same data
line. Power isn't needed because in some applications, the device can
derive power from the data line.
The DS1620 http://www.dalsemi.com/datasheets/pdfs/1620.pdf is an 8 pin
device that is similar internally to the DS1820 but includes output pins for
Over/Under and Com.
I don't know prices, availability or how well they work. I think Dallas
Semi also has an evaluation board.
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0^45'49.1" North, 5^7'9.5" East of Jeff Renner.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:02:28 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Another Under Carbonation Problem
Well, I have a Scottish style ale that hasn't carbonated in the bottles. I
believe the problem is the yeast can't handle the alcohol level . The OG
was 1.100. At bottling, the FG was 1.032. A bit high, the recipe called
for 1.028.
I had a problem with the yeast. I had two tubes of WhiteLabs Edinburgh but
they were a bit on the old side. I pitched them anyway hoping they would
go. (One thing I don't like about the tubes is, you don't know if the yeast
is alive until you open the tube. If I had used a smack pack, I would have
known the yeast was in sad shape.)
After 12 hours without a sign of fermentation, I added a pint of 1056
slurry, the only thing I had. The fermentation took off. After 8 days I
racked to the secondary, SG=1.032. After 45 days, with some trepidation, I
bottled with 1 cup of DME. The SG was 1.032. I should have done something
at this point, before bottling, but I was on a tight schedule so I plunged
ahead.
After 3 weeks, I tried one bottle and it was flat. There was a layer of
yeast on the bottom of the bottle. I took a second bottle, shook it
vigorously and stored it in a cabinet above the stove. After 10 days
another flat bottle.
Needless to say, this is a very heavy, sweet beer. I don't know what to do
now. I suppose I could hope for a miracle but I don't think so.
I don't want to keg and force carbonate it because it is too sweet.
I would like to get the SG down a few points but, how? If I add a better
yeast to each bottle, I am risking bottle bombs.
Empty all the bottles back into a fermenter and add a better yeast? Lots of
work, contamination and oxygen risks.
Any other ideas?
Thanks in advance
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0^45'49.1" North, 5^7'9.5" East of Jeff Renner.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:08:19 -0600
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com>
Subject: Motorized Valley Mill
I managed to get a used 10 to 1 worm drive motor from an electric motor
shop. With couplings it cost me about $40. If you do pulleys look at Ron
LaBorde's Malt Mill motorization at http://hbd.org/rlaborde/maltmill.htm I
recommend using the flexible couplings which are the red things between the
mill and the pulley. I also tried to stay below 200 rpm's to ease wear on
the mill. With a motor as fast as yours you have to use four pulleys. Try a
motor shop with a bone pile and you should be able to get set up with used
pulleys pretty reasonably.
But, if weird is what you like, you might improvise. Attach a large round
plywood disk to a shaft attached to the mill. Then find a way to put a small
rubber wheel on the motor. Push this rubber wheel into the face of the
plywood disk at the outer most point possible. Calculate the diameters of
the wheel and the disk to get the right speed. I have thought about doing
this with a drill and those rubber thingies that chuck in and expand to hold
sanding tubes. It just might work.
Bruce
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:16:49 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: dipstick, alternative to floor malted MO
Dave Harsh (who I now think of as DH) continues to demonstrate an inability
to communicate with me without resorting to snarky sarcasm with:
> If you aren't going to impose your welding friends to
> put in a sight
> glass, why not take a stick <tm> and put little marks on it at various
> volumes that you measure. You could then dip it into the wort and see
> how high it gets wet. Hmmm. Dipping a stick, you could use this in
> other applications as well. I better patent that concept
> soon before it
> makes its way into the public domain.
>
You know, I've forgotten what it was that you were sniping at me for a few
months ago, but clearly, whatever bug crawled up your a** then, is still
there. As for other applications of a dipstick, well, I'm thinking of one
right now, Dave.
On to the Marris Otter thing. I can't find my source for this, and I may be
wrong, but I believe a small Canadian maltster, Gambrinus, is still using
floor malting for producing a British style pale malt (made from Canadian
grown wheat, not Maris Otter) called ESB pale malt. I got the following from
the Brewer's Online Market Guide:
ESB pale malt: This "Extra Special British" pale malt is malted for brewers
seeking the unique flavor imparted by well-modified British pale malt.
Gambrinus modified its malting process to produce this distinct malt
traditionally found only on the British Isles. <end quote>
I have heard nothing but good reviews of this malt and is certainly one I
think worth trying by those lamenting the loss of the floor malted MO.
Cheers,
Brian
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:20:18 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: HBD photo gallery?
"BeerBloke" <BeerBloke at btinternet.com>, who didn't give his name, but
did disclose he's in Romford, Essex, England (where's that? The
Ordnance Survey http://www.ordsvy.gov.uk/ [a GREAT site, BTW] doesn't
have an entry, only ones in Dorset, Havering or Kent, but I guess
that Havering is Essex, more or less)
Anyway, Beerbloke gave his web site:
> http://www.wibblers.co.uk
Being home sick the last couple of days with a cold (really a drag
for someone who works at home, and I can't even taste anything,
including beer), I moseyed over to his site and followed the "beer
buddies" link and then "The UK Homebrew Digest Who's Who" link, and
found a photo gallery. Some familiar faces from HBD there, including
Graham!
Which reminded me. At some time in the past, there was talk of
putting up such a gallery for HBD. How about it, Pat? There must be
lots of room on that new server.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:57:42 -0500
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Sanke Fermenter
Gus wrote about using an unmodified Sanke:
He offers a very different take on the Sanke fermenter. It does make for
some interesting thoughts.
>Suppose you hooked up the tap fitting, plugged shut the beer out line
(which runs from the bottom of the keg), and use the gas in line ( which
runs into the top of
>the keg) as your blowoff tube.
Doable. Would not want to risk krausen reaching the gas out though. I've
had 12.5 gallon batches spew from the air lock on my converted Sanke
fermenters. Taking samples to check fermentation progress would be a
breeze via a short length of tubing and a plastic cobra faucet.
>When primary is complete, unhook the fitting, clean it, and reconnect this
time with the beer out line unplugged to draw off the yeast from the bottom.
1. If your goal is to get the beer off the primary yeast cake and trub, I
don't think this would do it. It will clear a small area around the dip
tube, but that's about it.
2. Would the dip tube be prone to clogging with yeast and trub? The two
critical points would be the separation between end of dip tube and keg
bottom. The other would be the constriction in the Sanke tap. Don't
know--experimentation?
>You can then either let it develop carbonation real-ale style, or let it
>secondary for a while then draw off the last of the yeast, and force
carbonate >and possibly bottle from the keg. I see no reason to modify the
top of the >keg.
1. As stated above, I don't think much of the last of the yeast would be
removed.
2. You can certainly force carbonate or seal it off and let it carbonate
naturally (monitor pressure).
3. Bottling from the keg... It would seem that you'd need to introduce
priming before bottling and want to homogenize the primings/beer, which
would require some manner of mixing, thus stirring up the settled yeast.
Seems there'd be a lot of yeast in the bottles.
4. Introducing the priming would involve pumping it up through the liquid
out of the tap or transferring under pressure. This would stir up the
yeast cake. Otherwise, you could remove the spear assembly and dump it in
through the hole. You'd then have to replace the speer to enable
pressurized transfer to your bottles or you could siphon through the opening.
5. Removing the spear invloves prying out the flat spring steel retainer
using a small regular screwdriver. This can be a PITA and will ruin many a
screwdriver. Seems like a lot of trouble. Specialized tools would no
doubt make this easier though, if you can find them.
6. The spear would have to be removed to dump out the yeast/trub and for
cleaning. Alternatively, you could pump or pressure transfer cleaning
soln. into the keg, perhaps letting it soak or slosh it around.
Personally, I'd worry about what might be left in all those nooks and
crannies. Did I get everything out? Is that krausen/trub ring gone? As
mentioned in previous posts, steam or heated cleaning can help. I'd
certainly take the spear out first though for safety. It only takes an
instant for dangerous pressures to develop. I'd hate to forget not to have
the keg tapped and vented. What if the keg is tapped and vented but plugs
for some reason? Don't take chances--remove the spear!
Final thought:
Considering fermenters (and other brewing vessels for that matter) used
commercially, they have manways that allow visual inspection by opening and
looking up in with a flashlight or even crawling inside to inspect up close
for cleanliness/beerstone. If they weren't thought of as necessary, you'd
think they'd be done away with. It would sure simplify fabrication.
My 2 cents.
Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewing
Murrayville, GA
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 07:40:34 -0800 (PST)
From: BOB Rutkowski <bob--o at excite.com>
Subject: 3 tier system plans, thoughts, and ideas
I happened on 7 practically new Sankey kegs for free. So now I have a
project to begin. Any ideas, plans, or pitfalls I may encounter? I look to
the masses to help get me out of the kitchen, and brewing larger batches.
Eventually to go to all grain.
Are there any brewers on the Illinois side of the St. Louis area?
Bob-O
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:49:35 -0500
From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu>
Subject: DH & Dip Stick
DH: I believe "DH" was coined by Mrs. Cranium to refer to her husband
Richard.
Wasn't it Papazian? who suggested notching your stirring paddle with marks
to measure the volume. I only have gallon marks on mine so I have to
interpolate. Of course if you change pot sizes, you have to recalibrate.
Papazian definately had it right with "Relax, Don't Worry Have a Homebrew".
The political tangents in the HBD lately can get pretty ugly.
Hope Dave Burley is recovering. It will be nice to have him back on the
HBD.
John Penn
(443) 778-6814
JHU/APL Space Department
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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:47:20 -0600
From: "Mike Pensinger" <beermkr at bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Kettle Volume
In response to Brians post on Kettle volume indicators, I would think that
anything that floated would not read accurately during a boil. There is too
much surface turbulance.
My solution is a no weld sight tube. There are a number available on the
Net form different sources or they can be easily fabricated with a minimum
of hassle. See my web site at http://members.bellatlantic.net/~beermkr and
click on the sight tube section. No weld tube usually only require one or
two holes to be drilled in the kettle .
Mike Pensinger
beermkr at bellatlantic.net
beermaker at mad.scientist.com
Mikes Hombrewery
Norfolk Virginia
(In layup while suffering in Chicago till April)
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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:36:21 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: French & Jupp, Low carb beer
<From: "BeerBloke" <BeerBloke at btinternet.com>
Subject: Subject: Does anyone still floor-malt their Maris Otter?
From: "Benjy Edwards" <rdbedwards at hotmail.com>
There is a family-owned maltsters in Stanstead Abbotts in Hertfordshire,
England called 'French and Jupps' They've been around since 1703 but are a
specialist dark maltsters. They don't produce any pale malt.>
My wife and I visited ( well I did, she went along) the French and Jupp
Maltings is 1994 on the river Leeds. It was my high point to our trip.
SWMBO enjoyed the ducks that hang around the buildings. The maltster,
Brian Davies, gave me the tour at a quick pace as it was obvious that the
duck's entertainment value was limited.
They only produce speciality malts. In fact many of the speciality malts
that we buy from name maltsters are actually subcontracted to French &
Jupp. They have huge pneumatic malting drums ( note to self - look into
exploiting the "pn" spelling). A great moment was when Brian took a sample
of crystal malt from a roaster and squeezed the still liquid sugar from the
husk.
Most of the floor malting rooms have been converted to office space. F &
J, I am told, make as much money renting office space in old malting
buildings as they do malting. The one building that they cannot convert
has very low 5.5 feet ceilings. If you are shoveling malt, you don't need
to stand up straight, now do you.
He showed me the kiln where they used to make real brown malt. When he
introduced me to Mr. Jupp, I put in a good word for reproducing this kind
of malt.
<Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 21:04:45 -0000
From: "Anthony Torrez" <perpacity at hotmail.com>
Subject: Low Carb Beer
Inspired by the low-carb Atkins Diet fad, I was wondering about making a
"low carb" beer. My main questions are:
1. What are the most attenuative beer yeasts?
2. Would it be possible to make good beer with Champagne yeast?
3. In your opinion, what is the best way to make a low carb beer.>
I made some low carb beers for a diabetic friend. I decided to use rye
malt because it has a "slimyness" that I hoped would come through at very
low final gravities. I did a very long, low temperature mash and further
diluted the final gravity with corn sugar.
It made a rather nice beer, all things considered. So nice that I brewed
it again for myself. I sent a six pack to my friend expecting that he
would drink a bottle a night or something. His wife carefully told me that
the "something" was the whole six pack in one night and read me the riot
act. I later told him that inorder to avoid his wife's wrath, I was just
sending him a single bottle. He asked that it be a big bottle.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:01:12 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: finding rennerian
"Bridges, Scott" <ScottBridges at sc.slr.com> says:
p.s. One of these days I'll get my GPS out and figure out where the h*ll I
am in rennerian coordinates.
Just go to http://www.mapsonus.com/
Click Draw New Map
Put in your address
When the map comes up, the Lat and Long. are not visible. Click the Half
screen up arrow then the half screen down arrow.
The fine print is the Long and Lat.
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0^45'49.1" North, 5^7'9.5" East of Jeff Renner
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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:42:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Earl Atwood <earl_atwood at yahoo.com>
Subject: vacuum insulated Aero-Cans
Greetings, brewers. I recently picked up several
'Aero Cans' which are basically giant thermos
containers used by field kitchens to transport 5
gallons of hot food to hungry crews. These are very
rugged and have a clamp-on insulated top with a
threaded vent hole on the top (presumably for temp
guage or pressure relief device). The inside
container has a 4.75 gallon capacity. The outer
'shell' of the can has about a 7 gallon capacity. The
clamp-on top uses a very heavy rubber ring gasket to
seal the lid with three outer spring clamps to tighten
it down.
I cut one apart and have been using the outer jacket
as a boiling vessel (handles a 6 gallon boil if I'm
careful).
These cans have great insulating qualities, just like
a ss thermos jug. I'd like to use one for infusion
mash and sparging and have been contemplating using a
copper manifold in the bottom of one for lautering;
but instead of drilling through the side for a fitting
at the bottom (which would kill the vacuum), I am
thinking that a vertical copper siphon tube up and
over the side of the can with a simple valve at the
bottom outside might accomplish the same thing.
I'm wondering if any brewers out there have had
experience retrofitting these types of vessels for
brewing purposes?
Earl Atwood - Cheyenne WY
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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:44:57 -0500 (EST)
From: The Man From Plaid <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: HBD photo gallery?
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Jeff Renner wrote:
> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:20:18 -0500
> From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
> To: Posting Address Only - No Requests <homebrew at hbd.org>
> Cc: BeerBloke at btinternet.com, "pbabcock at hbd.org" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
> Subject: HBD photo gallery?
<SNIP>
> Which reminded me. At some time in the past, there was talk of
> putting up such a gallery for HBD. How about it, Pat? There must be
> lots of room on that new server.
Someone, I don't recall who, had volunteered to create/manage the "Rogues'
Gallery" on the site and then never got back with me on it.
Anyway, it just occurred to me that we have the means to allow the users
of the HBD to manage their OWN photo/bio section on the HBD site. To this
end, note the "Rogues' Gallery" section of the Home Brew Flea Market. You
can now type in a biography and upload a picture for display. Note that
the "ads" into this system must be "approved", so your bio will not appear
immediately on the page. You will also have to go in and renew your bio at
the end of its term until we find another solution without the automatic
expiry placed on the normal ads (if you enter your correct email address,
the system will email you a warning when it is about to delete, and you
can renew indefinitely...).
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:40:36 -0600
From: "Marc Hawley" <Marc_Hawley at email.msn.com>
Subject: motor mill 1 of 2
I have wanted to attach a motor to my MaltMill for some time, mostly just
for fun, but also to gain some convenience in grinding large quantities of
malt.
I tried it once with a small stirring motor, but it became obvious that this
little motor would not work. I have been looking around for a better motor,
preferably a gear motor. A gear motor is made with gears built in so the out
put has more torque and lower speed.
I saw a nice little gear motor online at grainger.com so I bought it, along
with a speed controller. Bad Engineering Rule #1: Buy motor before studying
load requirements.
After I got the motor, I read the specs. I also did some research to find
out how much torque it really takes to turn my malt mill. It looked like I
was going to need at least a 2:1 and maybe 3:1 further increase in torque to
handle the load. It is a good idea to use a belt drive, anyway, to protect
the motor from mechanical shock.
I went to the hardware store and bought some wire. I ordered a motor sheave
from Grainger. I found out that "sheave" is what they a belt-driven wheel.
When I actually got the sheave for the mill, I was suprised to see that it
was only a little bigger than the sheave I had attached to the motor. I was
only going to have about a 5:4 mechanical advantage, not the 2:1 or 3:1 I
wanted. It turns out they sell these things by Outside diameter, not the
diameter of the inside surface touching the belt. Bad Engineering Rule #2:
Find out how they measure the parts after you buy them. I decided this might
be close enough. I was not sure if the 5 foot-pounds of torque I needed was
starting torque or steady state torque. Maybe I would have enough.
I thought the motor would sit on top of the grain bin along side the malt
mill. For some reason I bought the "right angle" configuration gear motor. I
thought it looked spiffier. The "straight through" configuration would have
made more sense for a belt drive. The shafts could sit parallel, with the
sheaves extending over the sides. My motor would not sit on top of the grain
bin unless I built a extention with about 18 inches overhang. This would
cause the whole thing to tip over if not firmly attached. I decided to build
an extention down the side of the grain bin. The motor would be bolted
vertically to the extention piece. Bad Engineering Rule #3: Don't worry
about configuration; it will all fit together somehow.
I got it all built and put together with plywood, glue and screws. The motor
was held by lag bolts. The holes I drilled for the lag bolts were a little
too small, I was able to screw them through the wood with pliers.
Everything fit together. I plugged it in. Joy! The motor turned and the malt
mill was spinning merrily away. Then I put some malt into the mill. No Joy!
It jammed. There was not enough torque to crush the grain. I should not have
been surprised. I had assumed I need 5 foot-pounds and I new I was
generating about 3 foot-pounds. Surprise, surprise, it jammed. Bad
Engineering Rule #4: Always underdesign by about 40% just for the thrill of
taking risks.
Now I had to take the motor off and take those lag bolts out. I had a devil
of a time getting a hold of the heads of the bolts after they had been
pulled into the wood. And, of course, I had to screw them out a quarter turn
at a time with pliers because the holes were too small. Bad Engineering Rule
#5: Don't worry about hole size for bolts; everything will work perfectly
the first time.
I went back to the hardware store and bought a smaller sheave for the motor.
Much smaller. It was a 2 inch diameter outside. I guess 1.5 inches inside.
This was going to give me about a 6:1 step up in torque. This was going to
be plenty! No more worries about torque! The smaller sheave caused the motor
position to change, so I had to drill new holes, big ones! The new position
put the motor bolts right at the edge of the wooden support. The back end of
the motor hung out, but it fit. I turned it on. Joy! The motor spun and the
malt mill turned at a stately pace, just oozing with foot-pounds. I put malt
in the mill. No joy! The motor sheave was slipping. The motor was turning,
the motor sheave was turning, but the belt was not moving.
I needed to tighten the belt. I need to move the motor a little farther
away, but the holes were already drilled right at the edge of the wooden
support. I found that these bigger holes had enough play in them that I
could loosen the bolts, pull really hard on the motor with one hand, while
tightening the bolts with my other hand. After several iterations of this
technique, I was able to get the belt really, really tight. Unfortunately
the belt still did not move. The were was just not enough friction in this
small area of motor sheave to pull the belt. So I took the whole thing apart
and epoxied a strip of coarse sandpaper around the inside surface of the
motor sheave. Pretty clever, eh? Thus I created a very efficient device for
grinding belts into piles of granular rubber. The belt was destroyed but
still did not move. Bad Engineering Rule #6: Don't worry about the actual
size of the motor sheave; only the ratio of sizes is important.
I decided I needed to go back to the bigger motor sheave and use a bigger
sheave on the mill shaft to get the needed torque. I happed to have a sheave
of about the right size. Unfortunately the bore size was 1/2 inch. The mill
shaft is 3/8 inch. Even Grainger does not seem to have an 8 inch sheave with
a 3/8 inch bore. Oh well. I would shim it out somehow.
The more immediate problem was that the large mill sheave would not fit in
to the wooden extention I had built on the grain bin. I had to cut a slot in
it for the large sheave to fit through. This also involved hack-sawing
through one of the wood screws that held the extention in place. I think
the two remaining screws will be strong enough.
Of course I now needed a new belt. So I went back to the hardware store to
buy another belt. They had one about the right size. Bad Engineering Rule
#7: Nt > Nc. Your number of trips to the hardware store should always be
greater than the number of components in your project.
Beause of the length of the new belt and the size of the mill sheave, the
motor would no longer fit on the wooden extention. So I built an extention
to the extention. The motor now sits horizontally on a lower level than the
mill.
Because the bore of the mill sheave is too large for the mill shaft, I made
a shim by cutting a piece of copper tubing lengthwise. If it wobbles too
much, it will rub on the sides of the slot I cut for the sheave. When I run
it, I need all the power I can get. Remember the speed controller? Not used.
Bad Engineering Rule #8: Always have parts left over. ( This rule also
applies when taking things apart and putting them back together to see how
they work. )
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:41:33 -0600
From: "Marc Hawley" <Marc_Hawley at email.msn.com>
Subject: motor mill 2 of 2
Most amazing, it now does actually work. It looks a bit awkward. A black
friend of mine in Detroit would call it "honky rigged". But it works. At
least it works for a cup or two of malt. We will see what happens this
weekend when I give it 20 pounds of malt to chew on.
....now expert on sheaves and torque
There was one more purchase. I saw online where another homebrewer mentioned
attaching a sheave with a 1/2 bore to a MaltMill with its 3/8 shaft. There
is a special part for this. He called it a bushing. It is about a $1 part
from Grainger. I clicked on it Thursday. It was delivered Friday, in time
for Brewday on Saturday. It eliminates the wobble.
Why bother? Well...
Brew day will start by hooking up the charcoal water filter and running
water into the hot water tank. When the heater elements are covered, plug
them in to start heating the water up to mashin temperature. Then measure
out the barley malt into a large container and carry it up to the back
porch. Also carry the MaltMill, its bucket, a scoop, and the mash tun. The
mash tun is the 10 gallon Nalgene tank which holds the wetted grist while
the enzymes work their magic.
While making periodic trips back to the basement to see that nothing
overflows or overheats, gring 20 pounds of grain by hand, working up a sweat
and blistering hand. Dump grist from bucket into mash tun making large cloud
of dust. Carry full mash tun back down stairs. Clean out large container and
bucket. Carry container bucket and MaltMill back down stairs.
Here is the new way:
While periodically glancing at the water heater, measure barley malt
directly into motorized mill which sits on top of mash tun and drops grist
directly into mash tun. No cloud of dust. No trips up and down stairs. No
cleaning out bucket or large container. No sweat. No blisters.
By the way, it DID work. It IS possible to motorize a MaltMill with a 1/15
horsepower gear motor. The beer is fermenting in the glass primaries this
morning.
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