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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  fermentability of first runnings .../mashout INCREASES fermentability ("Stephen Alexander")
  re: low carb ("Stephen Alexander")
  Gas BTU ("Stephen Taylor")
  Re: Needed web address ("Grant")
  Fuller's Cloning ("Paul Smith")
  dry hopping (JGORMAN)
  Diacetyl in PU (Nathan Kanous)
  GR Brew Pubs ("Eric Fouch")
  shallow grain beds and pumping a mild (Marc Sedam)
  BHC7 Results Available!! (Timothy Holland - Hardware Program Manager)
  HBD on Avantgo (Kelly E Jones)
  alternative St Paddy's brew (Jeff Renner)
  Re: dry hopping ("Kurt Schweter")
  Rogues' Gallery (The Man From Plaid)
  answering some newbie questions (Frank Tutzauer)
  Fullers ESB, Danstar London (Home Brewer)
  Mash tuns ("Peed, John")
  Much Ado about Burradoo (Beaverplt)
  The Powers Of Suggestion ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Forced CO2 and Stuff (Epic8383)
  Dry Hop Technique (Epic8383)
  Weld-B-Gone(TM) Web Address ("The Holders")
  2001 Buzz_Off and BJCP Exam ("David Houseman")
  Removing Labels & Recipe Request (KMarchyshyn)


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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* Bluebonnet Brew-Off Entry Deadline is 2/25/01!
* http://welcome.to/bluebonnet for more information
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* Drunk Monk Challenge Entry Deadline is 3/17/01!
* http://www.sgu.net/ukg/dmc/ for more information
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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 02:41:59 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: fermentability of first runnings .../mashout INCREASES fermentability

Brian Lundeen asked ...

>> Once corrected for gravity it
>> becomes clear that
>> there are more fermentables and maltose per unit extract in
>> first runnings than latter runnings.

>Do you have any numbers for how much more fermentable the wort is?

In one study the initial runnings were around 71% fermentability, quickly
rose to a peak & plateau around 74%.  Late in the sparge fermentability
dropped off to quickly from 74% to 65% as the runnings dropped from 4P to 1P
(1.016SG to 1.004SG).

Despite this, the change in runoff fermentability doesn't really impact the
beer's final fermentability greatly since the extract and total
carbohydrates are dropping so quickly.  A crude guess based on graphs of
runoff fermentability is that the last 5% of the total extract (to 1P)
averages about 5% lower fermentability.  That should only lower the total
wort fermentability by less than 0.5%.

===

Similarly the mash-out  temperature boost to 76-78C does cause the release
of some starch by gelatinization of a bit more of the starch granules [oh
yeah - there are no magic temps for starch granule bursts either.  The
gelatinization temp is a statistical feature where the vast majority of
granules give up the goods].

In the Tuborg study They did a mash-in and 30' rest 52C/125F, boost to
63C/145F for a 60' rest and then a slow (40') boost to 78C/172F for a 10'
mashout rest.  Mash tun liquor was sampled and analyzed at 10' intervals.
If we call everything from the sample at 70C/158F to the end of the 78C rest
as mashout, then this period saw ...

Total extract increased from 16.34P to 16.81P (+0.47P, +2.8%),.
Total carbs increased from 15.14P to 15.50P (+0.36P, +2.3%),
Fermentable carbos increase from 11.69P to 12.38P (+0.69P, +6%).

Most of the extraction increase happened early(just after 70C), most of the
fermentable carbo increase happened very late (at 78C).

During this MO phase only 0.36P(2.3%) increase in carbs and a slightly
greater increase in extract occurs, but even more (0.69P) of new
fermentables appears, so some pre-mashout carbos are made fermentable.  The
level of dextrins during this mashout wort actually decreases from 3.14P to
2.84P (-0.30P) which makes carbs balance within the margins of measurement
error.

So my previous statement about the fate of newly released starch as dextrins
was incorrect (bad recollection).  My error was based on the fact there
where was a dramatic increase (about 2X) in small unbranched dextrins (DP4,
5, 6) late in the mash.  True but even more fermentables were formed.

What isn't shown is that if the boost was stopped at 70C or 72C, we would
certainly get some, but less, added extract and fermentability over the same
time period and of fermentability on into the boiler.

The paper's author calculates the attenuation (fermentability) of the mash
liquor as it hits 70C as 68.2%, and in the final post mashout liquor at
70.3%.  Interestingly almost all of the added fermentability occurred after
the wort hit 78C/172F with 72% of the addition as maltose.  The implication
is that beta-amylase was quite active during mashout rest at 78C in this
case.

Mashout may in a sense stabilize the wort carbo mix, but it does so by
creating a noticeable, perhaps larger blip in the levels.  It would be
useful to see a similar experiment in a low fermentability wort.

I wouldn't carry away too extensive a message here except that small changes
in fermentability and extract are due to mashout in step mashes.  Small
enough that these are easily compensated for in HB level brews.  Also that
the combined impact of higher temps on enzymes - increasing the activity and
also the rate of denaturation gives results which aren't well characterized
by simplistic statements (as in Kunze and M&BS) that inactivation occurs at
some magic temperature.  It fooled me this time too.

We would expect a decoction mash to show little improved extract due to
mashout and less increase in fermentable sugars at MO.  I'd like to see data
tho'.

 -S

p.s. to AJ - some German lagers show quite a bit of  diacetyl as well.  Adds
somehow to the smoothness in limited quantity.   It was quite noticeable in
Dinkel-Ackers served locally on tap and another (can't recall the name) from
the Black Forest region.  Completely absent from many others.




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:08:31 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: low carb

Spencer writes ...

>I've always found it curious that, at least in the context of these
>fad diets, that alcohol is not considered a carbohydrate.  Chemically,
>that's exactly what it IS!

Altho both are carbohydrates their human catabolism isn't as simple as
oxidation in a calorimeter.

Almost all dietary carbohydrates are glycosides - sugars or their polymers.
Alpha linked glycosides (starch, dextrins, pectins ...) can be broken into
basic sugars quickly in the human digestive system, converted to glucose and
released in the blood stream as an energy source. Beta linked glycosides
(cellulose, chitin, 'vegetable fiber' (barley husks)) are polymers of the
same sugars but cannot be digested by humans and so need not be considered
as a human calorie source.  Ethanol is chemically a carbohydrate but it's
fate in the human metabolism is quite different from alpha-glucosides.  The
liver energetically dehydrogenates it, you end up with (I think)
acetaldehyde=?>pyruvate ==> fat & lactate.  Lactate in the blood can be
directly used by smooth muscle tissue, and probably has several other fates.
I suspect lactic acid (anyone drink sauerkraut juice?) has some similar
fates as ethanol but w/o the liver working overtime.  Acetic acid has some
similarity too.

The alpha-glucosides produce blood glucose causing a release of insulin,
permitting glucose induction into the cells for energy use or fat storage.
Ethanol doesn't produce blood glucose or an insulin response and can
actually suppress glycogen release upsetting (decreasing) blood sugar
levels.

It makes sense to treat alpha-glucosides, beta-glucosides and ethanol as
distinct classes metabolically (not chemically).  Diabetics certainly must.
Lactic & acetic acids would seem to be  'special case' carbos too.  Do any
diets consider the carbs in salad vinegar ?

Of course calories are calories, and they all seem to enjoy congregating
around my waistline, but they get there by different routes which *may*
require consideration in a weight loss diet.

 -S






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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:05:38 +1100
From: "Stephen Taylor" <stephentaylor at one.net.au>
Subject: Gas BTU

Hi All,
            Petr my fellow countryman asked about burners, Petr have you
considered using a gas regulator that allows zilch to flamethrower
adjustment, a solid brass unit.No problem attaching to and using on your
current gas ring.I think i have afew laying around, cluttering up the place,
e mail me if you think it willfix your burner, you can have one for the same
price i paid, nothing.
                                               Steve Taylor, Newcastle in
OZ.




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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:40:30 +1100
From: "Grant" <gstott at primus.com.au>
Subject: Re: Needed web address

G'day all,
I ended up finding the address, it turned out to be the Fermentap site.
Hopefully an ex-brewer will return to churning out quality craftbrews soon.

Grant & Yvonne Stott
Geelong Vic Australia



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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 05:14:41 -0600
From: "Paul Smith" <pksmith_morin1 at msn.com>
Subject: Fuller's Cloning

Much of the "honey-caramel" notes may be due to their house practice, as
much as the yeast.  Fuller's ferments with CO2 top-pressure
(trapping/increasing volatiles) and they mash at 160.  They also part-gyle:
each of their pale beers (ESB, London Pride, Chiswick Bitter) are made with
first, second, and third runnings of pale malt, crystal, and yes, MAIZE!

They also use Northdown.  I use Northdown in many of my dark ales and find
it to contribute a fruity, black-currant effect. In combination with
everything else Fuller's does, this may contribute to the overall
flower/honey effect.

A few things about cloning.  I think it very difficult to achieve a
"duplicate" of a given brewery's beers, simply because their are innumerable
variables which are impossible to replicate without brewing in the given
brewery, under that brewery's operating condition.

As an example, the fermentation profile of a commercial pure culture yeast
strain will vary with the brewery, simply because each brewery has entirely
different management practices.  Fermentation temps, wort carbohydrate
compositions, timing of crash cooling (if at all), end fermentations (i.e.,
how attenuated do we want - "how low can you go") will all, over time,
select for some population within the pure culture strain which "enjoys"
those operating conditions, and the "house" culture may vary considerably
from the commercial culture.

Whitbread yeast (Wyeast 1098) is considered to produce dry, crisp, "tart"
beers, yet I know of one western U.S. brewery which produces wonderfully
estery, malty, even "caramelly" products - all with 1098.  1098 from 10
years ago, that is, so that it is not 1098 but 1098 as it has been used in
this brewery for 10 years.

Cheers,

Paul Smith



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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:19:00 -0500
From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com
Subject: dry hopping

Short of it.  I use a fine mesh grain bag and a couple of marbles for dry
hopping.



Jason Gorman
Leap Resident Engineering
554-2519



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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:11:18 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Diacetyl in PU

Well, haven't we ruffled some feathers here?  The only thing that I would 
ask is that those who despise diacetyl in Bohemian Pilsners not drink them 
and not espouse how terrible diacetyl is in a beer.  That's a personal 
preference, not an objective assessment / description.

Diacetyl is an accepted (some would say required) part of the flavor 
profile of Bohemian Pilsners.  Just because someone doesn't like that (no 
matter how "important" they are) it should be retained as part of the 
profile.  Otherwise it's like me saying that a true pilsner beer should be 
exposed to ultraviolet light long enough to create significant amounts of 
mercaptans, just because I like Mooshead and Corona and the rest of the 
world should believe me because I know what's right.

I'm not attempting to denigrate those who've posted that they don't like 
diacetyl in Bohemian Pilsner.  I'm not trying to say any one individual or 
their personal opinion is more "important" than another.  E-mail sucks for 
debates...it quickly becomes a fistfight when it's only intended to spark 
open and fair debate.  Those that prefer a pilsner without diacetyl are 
entitled to their preference / opinion.  However, those opinions should not 
supercede the style guidelines, nor influence them if they judge 
competitions.  If you don't like diacetyl in Bohemian Pilsner, then please 
avoid judging them in competition.

Recently there was a post concerning the use of roasted barley (unmalted) 
in a stout.  As quickly as some folks may have responded "right on, that's 
what you want in a stout", someone else could have responded that a real 
stout has the aroma of coal tar and butyric acid (the dreaded vomit smell) 
and the only way to get true stout flavor was to replace all of the roast 
barley with coal tar and ferment with enteric bacteria.  That's a personal 
preference that in no way reflects the style guideline or description.

I'll get off my soap box, for now.
nathan in madison, wi




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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:48:28 -0500
From: "Eric Fouch" <airrick147 at hotmail.com>
Subject: GR Brew Pubs

Dave-
GR has some very good brewpubs.  Ranked in my own order of preference:

BOB'S House of Brews
Dennis makes everything hoppy.  My favorites are the Saaz Pils (best when 
it's fresh and cloudy!!!), Dortmunder Lager, The Broomhouse Porter and Stout 
are always nice, and his Smokey Scotch Ale is a real smooth ass-kicker!  If 
Dennis is around (Bottom floor), tell him I said to ask for a sample of the 
barleywine.  I don't know if/when it will be on tap, but it's a good 'un.

Canal Street Brewing (Founders Ales) on Monroe Street.  Yes- I'm confused, 
too.  But anyway, an excellent micro.  Rich does a great job on the Amber, 
and lager- but be sure to treat yourself to this years batch of Imperial 
Stout.  Worth picking up at the stores, too (This years batch has the black 
cap.  Last years has the red cap).

Big Buck and GRBC are neck-in-neck, but both are making improvements to 
their hit-and miss line up of brews.  Big Buck just hired one of our club 
members as Head Brewer, so I'll straighten that brewery out soon...

Worth missing, IMHO, is Robert-Thomas.  Some people like their beers, and 
they have their following, but in my experience, they are rather 
inconsistent and flawed.  In case their listening, nothing personal, just my 
preference.

Drop me a line if you want- I'll see if I can tag along.

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood, MI




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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:56:37 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: shallow grain beds and pumping a mild

Petr writes of shallow grain beds and a loss of extraction.  I
use a converted keg mash tun with a SS screen in the bottom.  On
Monday I made 10 gallons of mild using this system, but only had
12 lbs of grain .  The grain bed depth was about 8" and I got a
beautifully clear runoff with 80% efficiency.  But I recirculated
for some time using a pump.

Ah yes, the pump.  Well, to break that puppy in I decided to make
the aforementioned mild.  To make things interesting I added 1.25
lbs of toasted oats to my recipe.  Here's the grist for 10
gallons:

   11.00 lbs. Pilsener malt
   1.25 lbs. Quaker Quick Oats (oven toasted at 450F for 15
minutes)
   1.00 lbs. Crystal 40L
   0.50 lbs. Crystal 120L
   0.25 lbs. Chocolate malt

   Hops
   0.50 oz. Yakima Magnum Whole 16.50%aa   75 min.
   2.50 oz. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 4.75%aa         in the mash

   Yeast
   WYeast 1098 British Ale (for 5.5 gallons)
   Danstar Dry London Ale (for 5.5 gallons)

   I toasted the oats in the oven and added them to 2lbs of pils
malt and did a
   separate mash, holding at 106F for 30 minutes (glucan
rest...did wonders).
   Raised to 155F over 30 minutes then held for 15 minutes.
Raised to 170F and
   added to the main mash. The main mash was a single step
infusion at 149F.
   Temps held between 149-150F for the whole 75 minutes. The
oatmeal mash
   raised the overall temp to 156F which was held for 15 minutes.
I added 4
   gallons of boiling water to reach a mash out of 175.

Then came the pumping.  Since I started grinding the grain at
6:15 I didn't want to run the risk of screwing things up and not
being able to finish the beer.  So I raised the temps through an
infusion (haven't done THAT in years) and used the pump to
recirculate during the mash out and run into the kettle.

The first two times I tried starting the pump with the outlet
valve (on the pump...not the tun) open about 1/6 of the way.
Stuck twice.  Blew air back through the mash twice.  Screw
underletting...I'm boiling the wort anyway.  Stirred the mash up
like mad (we're at about 2.5qt/lb at this point due to the
infusion).  The next time I left the mash tun valve and pump
outlet valve totally open, but didn't turn on the pump for 15
minutes.  Started the pump, but left the valve open for three
seconds to clear the area under the screen, then closed back to
the same 1/6 opening.  The wort was cloudy for about 45 seconds
then ran brilliantly clear--clearer than any recirc I've ever
had.  Recirculated for 15 minutes, turned off the pump, hooked
the pump outlet to my kettle, and ran 13 gallons of crystal clear
wort straight into the kettle.

I was able to get the mash (even a not very deep one) to
recirculate at a much faster rate than I imagined...at least 1
gallon/minute.  And that's with 12% oats in the grist, although
the beta-glucan rest did seem to break a lot of those down.  With
that flow rate I don't see direct firing the tun to be much of an
issue. The only problem I can see is that my screen doesn't cover
the entire bottom of my tun.  The grain resting on the bottom
*could* scorch, but with a rapid flow rate and a very weak flame
I don't think it's a problem.  Well, I'll find out next week when
I brew a pils and test this all out.

Cheers!
Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:10:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Timothy Holland - Hardware Program Manager <tholland at oe800.East.Sun.COM>
Subject: BHC7 Results Available!!

Fellow Brewers,

The 7th Annual Boston Homebrew Competition was held on Saturday
Febrewary 10th at the North East Brewing Company in Boston MA.  We had
363 entries this year which included beer, cider and mead entries.

The Boston Wort Processors wish to extend our thanks to all who
continue to support and participate in our competition!  It was a
great day and some excellent beers, ciders and meads were judged.  We
also had many entries and qualifiers for the MCAB IV competition
coming from all over the country!

The competition results are posted on the Boston Wort Processors web
page at http://www.wort.org/BHC/winners01.html  Please surf there to
obtain the results.  The only results given here are the Best of Show
winners.  For those who entered the competition score sheets will be
in the mail ASAP.

Best of Show
===================================================================
1) Gary Harstead, Mahwah, NJ , Kriek
2) John Sundstrom, Warwick, RI, Coffee Porter
3) Jim Prucha, Londonderry, NH, APA

Any questions can be directed to me via e-mail or phone. 

Cheers and thanks again for your support!

Tim Holland
Organizer for the 2001 Boston Homebrew Competition
Boston Wort Processors
tim.holland at east.sun.com
781-442-2022



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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:14:55 -0800
From: Kelly E Jones <kejones at ptdcs2.ra.intel.com>
Subject: HBD on Avantgo

Bob Sutton said:
>Someone else suggested using AvantGo... an excellent suggestion... but for
>some reason AvantGo reports the file (http://hbd.org/hbd/CurrentHBD.html)
as
>too large to download (YMMV) - even with a download cap at 500k. I'm still
>trying to find a solution. If anyone has a AvantGo link that works - please
>post it.

I just tried this with Avantgo, and had no problem.  I configured it to
not follow offsite links, link depth of '0', and no images.  Worked
fine, downloaded today's digest of 26K. Here's my link:

http://avantgo.com/mydevice/autoadd.html?title=HOMEBREW%20Digest&url=http%3A
%2F%2Fhbd.org%2Fhbd%2FCurrentHBD.html&max=200&depth=0&images=0&links=0&refre
sh=daily&hours=2&dflags=127&hour=7&quarter=00&s=00

(I'm sure this URL will need some re-assembly...)

Kelly
Forest Grove, OR


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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:23:39 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: alternative St Paddy's brew

Brewers

Let me suggest an alternative to stout or green beer that I suggest 
every few years, Irish-American Red Ale.  Here is my post from 
several years ago.  I've received good feedback from happy brewers. 
Feel free to substitute ingredients or modify procedure, of course.

There's just time to brew it if you keg and force carbonate.  A 
little iffy for bottling but it should work..  A mash note - I have 
done this since my original post with a single step infusion and it 
worked fine.  I used gelatin to clear the beer before kegging.

Don't worry about Cluster if you can't get it.  And Wyeast or White 
Lab's Irish yeast is essentially the same (Guinness) as YeastLab's, 
which is no longer produced.

Let me know how it turns out if you do brew it.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-=-
It's about time to think about brewing a beer for a St. Paddy's Day 
party.  How about something different from the usual stout or green 
beer, something with an American touch?

I've made an Irish-American ale that I figure is similar to what was 
served in Irish neighborhood taverns in the Northeast 100 years ago, 
although I have no proof.  Maybe like McSorley's?  It's sort of a red 
ale with corn, flaked barley, medium crystal and a touch of 
chocolate.  It's a little stronger than a British session beer,  a 
little less than typical US beers (due to higher FG), and certainly 
less strong than the authentic ales of a century ago, but they didn't 
have to drive home then.  This is popular with Killian's drinkers as 
well as real ale fans as it has enough interest to hold them.  Resist 
the temptation to up the bitterness as it is inappropriate in this 
style.

McGinty's Irish-American Ale
5.25 gallons  at  1.044

5.5 lbs 6-row (US 2-row should work, too)
1.75 lbs flaked maize
0.75 lbs flaked barley
0.5 lbs crystal 30L
2 oz. chocolate

Mash 154F 60 minutes.  Actually, though, I did a 40/60/70C mash (30 
minutes at each step) adding the corn at 60C.  The 40C rest may have 
helped break down beta-glucans in the barley, and passing from 40 to 
60 over 30 minutes or so effectively gave me a protein rest, which 
may have made the beer clearer.  Irish moss might not hurt.

Bittering hops - Cluster (I used 3/4 oz for 19 IBU)
Finishing hops - Golding (Domestic would be fine) (I used 1/2 oz for 
15 min. for 4 IBU and another 1/2 oz at knockout) (FWH might be nice 
here)
Target 23 IBU

Irish Ale yeast YeastLab A05

OG 1.044
FG 1.015

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:59:49 -0500
From: "Kurt Schweter" <KSchweter at smgfoodlb.com>
Subject: Re: dry hopping

I have found the best thing to use for 
hop weights is some heavy weight 
glass shot glasses - 
small/ easy to sanitize - ?
can you say 151 ?
cheers from So. Cal.
lost somewhere in Manhattan Beach



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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:26:38 -0500 (EST)
From: The Man From Plaid <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Rogues' Gallery

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Well, at Jeff's suggestion, I implemented a quick-n-dirty means to post
your photo and bio on the HBD site. 

Since then, there's been two. And one is me (the other ISN'T Jefff :-).
Looks like THAT community need is fulfilled! 

If anyone ELSE would like to expose themselves, go to HBD.ORG on the web
and pick "HBD'er BIOs". Then, from the side-bar menu, pick "Place Ads".
It's really very simple, and we'd love to hear from/see you there!

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:29:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: answering some newbie questions

Jeff has some first batch questions.  Jeff, you'll get lots of good answers
to these questions, but calming the fears of a first-time brewer is a good
thing, so I'll throw in my two cents.

"1. Cooling the wort took much longer than I expected. I...figured that the
best thing to do would be to put my pot out in a pile of snow on my porch,
but I soon realized that not much was happening. If I want to stir the wort
to help it cool faster what sanitary precautions do I need to take?"

Open the pot and stir with a sanitized spoon.  I keep my brew spoon in the
pot during the boil, so it's sanitized, and then leave it in while
chilling.  The lid won't close all the way, but no biggie.  Stir every few
minutes.

Also, snow around your brew pot can melt, leaving an insulating layer of
air.  Keep pushing it up against the brew pot.  Actually, an ice water bath
would probably work better than snow.  Or, better yet, buy or build a wort
chiller!  That should be one of your next equipment acquisitions.

"2. The next surprise was...the total volume...4 gallons. The recipe that I
used started with 5 gallons of water...but is it natural to lose this much?
Is it customary to start with more than 5 gallons to compensate?"

How much you lose depends on the vigor of the boil and how covered your lid
is.  For an all-grain batch I start with between 6 and a half gallons of
wort and end up with about 5 gallons in the fermenter.  For an extract
batch, I start with four to five gallons, end up with something less, and
top up with water.  I'm assuming you're doing an extract batch.  Most
extract brewers will top up with water to five gallons, but starting out
with more in the kettle to evaporate down to five is ok too.

"3. ....In the process of [messing with the airlock] a couple of
tablespoons of the sanitizer solution (c-brite) got sucked into my wort.
Should I be worried?"

I've never used C-brite, but I doubt it's a big problem.  Many people will
tell you to put sanitizer in the airlock, but I just use plain water
exactly so as to prevent it being added to the beer if the airlock water
gets sucked in.

 ...

"6. Last but not least, I need what every rookie needs: reassurance. Is
it normal for my airlock to be bubbling only a few times a minute (I'm
on day 2 of fermentation)?"

No biggie.  Sometimes it'll bubble faster, sometimes slower.  Your beer is
fine!!

Welcome to a great hobby.

- --frank



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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:46:50 -0500
From: Home Brewer <cynthia.howe at sympatico.ca>
Subject: Fullers ESB, Danstar London

Bill Frazier and Mark Vernon are looking to impart a caramel taste to their 
FESBs.

I've recently been experimenting with Wyeast #1335. This is certainly a 
"proprietary top-fermenting yeast", and early taste tests indicate a 
significant caramel flavour (which I find unpleasant) in my standard 
English bitter recipe. As I've brewed this recipe many times, I'm fairly 
certain that the yeast is the culprit. I'm not familiar with FESB, but 
based on your descriptions, I'd wager a crate of my best that this yeast 
will impart at least some of the caramel flavour that you're looking for.

- -----

Thanks to all who replied to my request for a Wyeast equivalent of Danstar 
London. The yeast strain I am after is the Bass/Worthington Whiteshield 
strain (thx Jeff) which is Wyeast #1028 (thx Mark).

Cheers,

Tim Howe
London, Ontario 



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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:07:32 -0500
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: Mash tuns


First, I used a 10 gallon Rubbermaid cooler as a mash tun for maybe a dozen
brews and the inner wall bucked a bit in a couple of places.  Is this
common?  I never subjected it to anything hotter than 172 degrees, and since
that was only strike and sparge water, the walls were usually several
degrees cooler than that.

Second, I've switched to a rectangular 12 gallon cooler and a slotted CPVC
manifold.  I've only used it a couple of times in my RIMS setup, but overall
I think I prefer it.  Despite less (theoretical) outlet volume in the
slotted tubes as compared to the circular false bottom's holes, it appears
that I can recirculate about twice as fast with the slotted manifold.  I
would guess this is because the slots don't plug up, whereas an amazingly
high proportion of the holes in the false bottom used to plug up with grain.
Also, (in spite of all the plugged holes), I used to get a lot of grain
chunks in the boil pot if I didn't use a hop bag to filter the mash tun
out-flow (this in spite of an hour or recirculating).  I suppose the grain
chunks that plugged the holes in the false bottom eventually were forced
through to appear in the out-flow.  The slotted manifold doesn't pass much
grain at all because the slots are so narrow.

I have to do several more brews before I can accurately compare the round
cooler/false bottom performance with the rectangular cooler/slotted
manifold, but so far I'm happier with the rectangular/slotted setup.  Which
really, really makes me wonder why people want to spend three times as much
on a round cooler and at least four times as much on a false bottom.  Is it
just a matter of simplicity (making a slotted manifold is a bit of work if
you don't have access to a band saw), or is there some inherent or perceived
benefit to brewing in the round?  

John Peed
Knoxville, TN


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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:16:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com>
Subject: Much Ado about Burradoo

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:56:42 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Lag Times

Now I'm not talking about the usual lag times which
brewers get so 
concerned
about. I'm talking about the amusing lag time which
occurs in the HBD
regarding discussion on a matter. Just a few weeks ago
I brought to
everyone's attention arguably the biggest homebrewing
event to occur 
this
century. The great gathering of homebrewers (infamous
and otherwise) 
here at
Burradoo Estate to sample the Yates/Pivo Czech
pilsner!

Considering that my present to myself for my 45th
birthday was going to be a trip to Australia, this
gathering struck my fancy. Also considering that due
to circumstances beyond my control the money for said
trip is not there, I think round trip plane fare
courtesy of Mr yates would be in order. Don't worry
about accommodations, I'll bring my sleeping bag. 

Oh yeah, beer realted content... I just bottled a
Cherry porter. I'll bring some for everyone to pick
on.

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.


=====




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Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:29:46 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: The Powers Of Suggestion

Dave Lamotte and I have long held the view that some of the so called
experts of homebrewing wouldn't know if their bums were on fire, unless of
course you told them.

We devised a simple experiment to test our theory. What better candidate to
try it out on than the loudest, rudest and most conceited brewer in all of
Australia. None other than Graham Sanders of NQ.

First in our series was to package an American Budweiser (a beer Graham
claims he detests) into a PET bottle and label it "Burradoo Rice Lager".
"Very popular with the ladies", we told Graham. This I personally delivered
to Graham in Townsville. It's not often the Captain of the aircraft hops off
and hands you your own personal bottle of homebrew. Graham was impressed
(being a simple type) and I suspected we had him hooked.

Graham loved the stuff! Raved about it. Even wrote a glowing appraisal in
here and went so far as to suggest I was the only other craftbrewer (apart
from himself of course) in Australia.

Dave and I were laughing so hard we nearly cracked our ribs. This experiment
had to be continued.

Next we packaged up some of Dave's brew, liberally dosed with the contents
of Ray Kruse's skunk oil bottle and sent it off to Graham labelled
"Newcastle Funk Ale" - compliments of the Captain.

We were fully expecting a phone call from the Townsville hospital advising
us that a Mr Graham Sanders was in there having his stomach pumped out. But
no, back came more glowing reports from Graham. "Could we send him more?" he
asked.

Now Dave and I were delirious with laughter and with tears rolling down our
faces we advised Graham we couldn't send him any more, there was no more of
Ray's skunk oil left!

The only "not tampered with" bottle we sent Graham was the only one he
thought was awful. This we labelled "Best Beer In Southern Australia".

This sort of treachery is common in Australia, and when the recipient finds
out he has been "done in the eye" he usually has a hearty laugh also. But
what did Graham do?
He packed up his bat and ball, announcing he no longer wanted to be a small
fish in a big pond, but rather a big fish in a little pond! So now he stands
at the pulpit in front of a huddled group of Aussie brewers and rants and
raves and bullshytes to them as he once did in here. I wonder if they would
be interested in the results of our "Powers Of Suggestion" experiment.

This all goes to prove that Graham (and a host of other self appointed
experts) cannot be taken seriously.

On the other hand, I have an unblemished record of truthfulness and honesty.
I even think Steve Alexander would be proud of my little experiment.

Cheers
Phil



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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:06:37 EST
From: Epic8383 at aol.com
Subject: Forced CO2 and Stuff

   Kegging and forced CO2 is discussed in "The Homebrewer's Companion" by 
Charlie Papazian. There's a neat CO2 / Temp chart that I copied, enlarged, 
laminated and attatched to the front of my fridge. I was lucky enough to have 
a connection to the local Coca Cola distributor who provided me with two 5 
gal cornies and 'found' another two behind a local McDonalds.
  As far as fillers go, my CounterPhil has a little problem with it's CO2 
check valve, I think from being positioned in a short, curved length of 
tubing. I like the smooth siphon fill it provides, so I just use an exterior 
clamp on the CO2 line.
  All this talk about flying with beer has me thinking (for a change). I'm 
going to Montreal from New York for a hockey tounament in April, and would 
like to bring beer. I'm not sure if I'll be flying or driving, so how about 
bringing beer into Canada by car or plane?
     Gus


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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:25:34 EST
From: Epic8383 at aol.com
Subject: Dry Hop Technique

   I bought a bag of marbles that I use in a muslin bag for dry hopping. 
They're easy to sanitize, but a pain in the neck to force in and out of a 
carboy. It does work, however to keep the leaf hops in the beer rather than 
floating on top.
   Gus Rappold
   Massapequa, NY


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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:33:42 -0800
From: "The Holders" <zymie at charter.net>
Subject: Weld-B-Gone(TM) Web Address

Grant,

I can't speak for the chrome plated brass weld-free kits that advise against
overtightening, but I can give you the address for my affordable all
stainless kit.

http://www.zymico.com/weld-b-gone

Wayne Holder AKA Zymie
Long Beach CA
http://www.zymico.com



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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:42:45 -0500
From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam at earthlink.net>
Subject: 2001 Buzz_Off and BJCP Exam

While a more formal notification of the BUZZ_OFF homebrew competition will
be forthcoming, I do want to at least provide an early notice that this
competition will be held on Saturday, June 9th, 2001 at the Lafayette Inn in
Lafayette Hills, PA, just outside of Philadelphia.  This year's competition
will again be an MCAB Qualifying Event.  Brewers fire up your kettles.
Judges mark your calendars.

We will also be conducting a BJCP exam on Sunday, June 3rd for those who
would like to take or retake this exam.  Anyone that's interested, or knows
of those that are interested, please contact me or Beer Unlimited.  We will
plan preparation classes around the availability of those who sign up.

David Houseman
610-458-0743
housemanfam at earthlink.net

Beer Unlimited
610-889-0905
BrewIPA at aol.com





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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:33:54 EST
From: KMarchyshyn at aol.com
Subject: Removing Labels & Recipe Request




Hello Jeff,

My husband and I are also newbies, but I have discovered a great way to
get the labels off of most bottles. Soak them in hot water with some
Oxyclean added. (This is the stuff from the Infomercial, but Walmart and
other such places carry it.) In a sink full, I use roughly a half a scoop.
Let them soak for awhile, and many labels will just float off the bottles.
Those that don't will be very easy to peel away in one piece. Then just
use a scrub sponge to remove the excess glue, which comes off very easily.
Don't try to rush the process, let the Oxyclean do the work. I have only
had one wine bottle that this didn't work on, and I can only assume that
this one company used different glue.

Now for my request:

As mentioned, we are new to brewing. Currently we are doing only malt
extract method, and are not set up for whole grain brewing.  My husband
would like to make a beer as close as possible to Sam Adam's Winter Lager.
Does anyone who is familiar with this beer have any thoughts for us? A
recipe that uses some specialty grains would be fine, as long as it does
not require alot of extra equipment.

Thanks so much, and I hope the bottle idea helps someone.

Kim Marchyshyn


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