---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  a plea - don't send huge postings (Dick Dunn)
  Sanitizing in dishwasher (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  Zymurgy (Chris Shenton)
  brewpub list addition (tim)
  RE: List of brewpubs, etc. [revised] (Chris Shenton)
  Kegging -- supplier Foxx sells an affordable kit! (Chris Shenton)
  re: List of Brewpubs (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  Need information on yeasts (Jeff Jennings)
  Re: Sanitizing in the dishwasher? (Jeff Jennings)
  dishwasher sanitizing (mage!lou)
  reproducibility (Algis R Korzonas +1             )
  Dishwasher for Sanitation... (Mike Zentner)
  Removeval from Hombrew Mailing list (David Reclite)
  Sanitizing in the dishwasher? (Mark Freeman)
  Front Street Pub (Santa Cruz Brewing) (Mark Freeman)
  City of Angels Pub/Brewery (Mark Freeman)
  Stainless Steel pressure cooker... (Yawp!)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 13 Feb 90 02:01:14 MST (Tue)
From: hplabs!hplms2!gatech!raven!rcd (Dick Dunn)
Subject: a plea - don't send huge postings

I STRONGLY urge the folks on this list not to send huge messages - such as
large "lists of stuff" - in single postings to the homebrew list.  The
recent posting of brewpubs is what provoked me to send this, although I
want to point out that (a) the list was interesting, useful, etc., and (b)
I particularly don't want to single out this posting.

The problem is that BIG MAIL MESSAGES BREAK THINGS!!!  There are various
limits on how big a mail message can be...some mailers choke on > 32 K or
> 64 K; some Internet sites reject messages > 50 K and most reject > 100 K.

Can we find a way to stash large compilations, etc., where folks can grab
them when they want them, without sending them to the entire list?  Could
the digestifier reject messages above a certain size?  I would like to
keep Rob from getting hassled by lots of bounce messages.
- ---
Dick Dunn	{ncar;ico;stcvax}!raven!rcd		(303)494-0965
			or	rcd at raven.uucp

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 09:08:42 EST
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Sanitizing in dishwasher


In Homebrew Digest #356, Jeff Close asked about sanitizing in a dishwasher.

I've never tried sanitizing equipment in the dishwasher, but I did sanitize
bottles in the dishwasher for the last two batches of brew.  I first cleaned
them out using the bottle brush (to get rid of any built up scum).  I
then loaded them all in the dishwasher on "rinse"--with nothing in the soap
tray.  Seemed to work well, and was definitely easier than past washing
and sanitizing efforts.  Take this with a grain of salt though because the
beer isn't done aging yet so I can't say whether or not it had any effect
on the beer itself.
I can fit a case of bottles in the bottom rack, so it takes two iterations
to clean them all.  I'm sure the drying temperature inside is hot enough
to kill anything that might have lingered after the scrubbing and rinsing.

Hoppy brewing,
- ---Mark Stevens
   stevens at ra.stsci.edu  


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 09:58:32 est
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Zymurgy

Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory writes:
> Does anyone know what the latest issue of Zymyrgy is?
> The most recent one that I have received is the special
> yeast issue.

I missed out on it too, but it's the ``Break the Bottle Habit'' one, with a
soda-keg smashing bottles on the cover.

Unfortunately, not nearly as informative as the yeast issue: only three
rather anemic articles. Too bad because everyone would love to be kegging
... if they knew how to do it reasonably cheaply.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 10:08:27 EST
From: tim at Think.COM
Subject: brewpub list addition


Here's a nifty place that I can't morally allow to be left off the list:

San Francisco:

	The Toronado - Haight Street
		This place has an amazing selection of microbrews, perhaps
like nowhere else in the nation.  They typically have 13 brews on tap,
usually 6-8 of which are local microbrews, e.g., try the blue whale ale or
devils brew stout.  They also have about 50 microbrews in bottles, not to
mention other hard to find imports and fun things like soki.  Very trendy
haight-esque crowd which seems uninterested in the amazing selection - wear
black if you want to fit in.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 10:06:19 est
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: List of brewpubs, etc. [revised]

An addition to:

  Baltimore Brewing Company - scheduled to open on Albemarle Street.  "This
    establishment, to be owned and operated by members of Europe's Grolsch 
    brewing family, will be a German-style restaurant and serve a lager beer."

It did open, and it's been well worth the wait. Currently three beers:
Helles (rich, full-bodied, well-hopped), Pils (lighter, also full-bodied
and very well hopped), and Dunkle (dark, full-bodied, malty). All very
good, German-style beers. The guy I talked to said they are going to be
offering a bock and a weizen as the seasons evolve. I've been there twice,
and the character of the beer has been slightly variable, due largly to the
newness of the place. Very busy on weekend evenings. Reasonably good German
food, too, and all at fair prices. 


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 10:14:21 est
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Kegging -- supplier Foxx sells an affordable kit!

I got a catalog from Foxx -- supplier of draft and soda systems for
restaurants and such. They had an xeroxed addendum in front showing a
kegging kit for $152. It includes:
	+ Cornelius 5 gallon keg (ball or pin)
	+ CO2 cannister
	+ Single-guage regulator
	+ Hoses
	+ Connectors
	+ Picnic-type faucet
For an additional $6, they'll upgrade it to a two-guage regulator. This is
the cheapest price I've seen; I've not had much luck trying to track down
cheaper (under $100) systems based on used equipment...

Has anyone else ordered from them? Any other leads on suppliers? 

Contrary to some other reports here, I'm not having much luck getting used
kegs from Coke or retailers for ``free or low cost'' (but I will keep
trying!).
_______________________________________________________________________________
Internet:  chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.10.155)      NASA/GSFC: Code 735
UUCP:      ...!uunet!asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov!chris             Greenbelt, MD 20771
SPAN:      PITCH::CHRIS                                            301-286-6093

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 10:30:18 EST
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: re: List of Brewpubs


Walt Thode's list of brewpubs (Homebrew Digest #356) is great! This is
incredibly useful information....whenever I travel somewhere I like
to know where I can get a good glass of beer at the end of the day.
Asking hotel desk clerks is futile.  The only success I've ever had
in asking people about these places was in Boston where a friendly
cabbie told me to try the Winter Warmer and the stout at the Commonwealth
Brewery.  I did, and he was right.  Both were great!  
But I've had people tell me that great beers could be had at places only
to find the most exotic beer be draft Guinness or Dortmunder.
A few people took the time to send Walt mini-reviews with their opinions
about brewpub offerings.  Can we please get a few more of these??? I'd
be especially interested in seeing reviews of the places in Minnesota
and Wisconsin as I know I'll be going there this coming summer.
Cheers!
- --Mark Stevens
  stevens at stsci.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 09:59:43 MST
From: caeco!jj at hpuslua.nsr.hp.com (Jeff Jennings)
Subject: Need information on yeasts

Does anyone know what the alcohol tolerance of the various strains of
Wyeast liquid yeasts are?  I am looking for a good yeast to use in
making a barleywine and don't feel comfortable using wine yeast.
- ---------
Jeffrey C. Jennings	Silicon Compiler Systems
uunet!iconsys!caeco!jj	7090 South Union Park Ave., Suite 200
caeco!jj at cs.utah.edu	Midvale, Utah 84047 USA
			(801)255-8880

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 09:56:42 MST
From: caeco!jj at hpuslua.nsr.hp.com (Jeff Jennings)
Subject: Re: Sanitizing in the dishwasher?

>Greetings.  I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried sanitizing in.. their
>dishwasher!?  I've contemplated running it empty a round or two on rinse to
>clean it out, then running my equipment through using sanitizing agent instead
>of dishwasher detergent.  Does this seem sound?  I can hardly fit my fermenters
>in my sink, and the dishwasher would run a lot hotter than I can clean by hand.
>Comments?  Thanks in advance..

I do this all the time.  When I start brewing a batch, I put everything that
will fit (wort chiller, funnels, measuring cups, hoses, fermentation locks)
in the dishwasher.  The carboy doesn't fit so I sanitize that with bleach
solution separately.  Remember to let the dishwasher run through a complete
dry cycle.  When I used to bottle my beer I would run all the bottles through
the dishwasher and fill them as I removed them.  I always run the items to
be sanitized through without adding anything to the dishwasher although adding
a sanitizing agent would probably be fine.  If you use the dishwasher be sure
that it doesn't have any rinse agents such as "Jet Dry" in it.

Note: my dishwasher preheats all its water to temperatures much higher than
the water heater.  I'm not sure how well dishwashers which do not preheat
their water would do at sanitizing.
- ---------
Jeffrey C. Jennings	Silicon Compiler Systems
uunet!iconsys!caeco!jj	7090 South Union Park Ave., Suite 200
caeco!jj at cs.utah.edu	Midvale, Utah 84047 USA
			(801)255-8880

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 10:13:36 MST
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: dishwasher sanitizing


In brewlist #356 Jeff Close writes:

>Greetings.  I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried sanitizing in.. their
>dishwasher!?  I've contemplated running it empty a round or two on rinse to
>clean it out, then running my equipment through using sanitizing agent instead
>of dishwasher detergent.  Does this seem sound?  I can hardly fit my fermenters
>in my sink, and the dishwasher would run a lot hotter than I can clean by hand.

My question is not "will this work?" but "why take something simple
(sanitizing) and make it complicated?"  However, to answer the question, the
wash cycle of most dishwashers is only 5-10 minutes, after which it will start
rinsing.  I'd recommend a longer time for sanitizing.  The minimum time needed,
of course, depends on the concentration of your sanitizing solution.

Remember the adage seen in this mailing list before "Clean first, then
sanitize."  If you clean your equipment immediately after use, rinsing alone
should handle most of it, then add elbow grease, then washing soda (if really
necessary).  If you then store it in a reasonably clean area, it shouldn't need
to be cleaned again before use.  To sanitize just before use, soak in a
bleach/water solution - there's no need for hot water here.  I use skin
temperature water since I reach into it fairly often.

I've noticed that opinions vary widely on "correct" sanitizing technique.  I've
minimized details here in order to minimize flames.

Louis Clark
reply to: mage!lou at ncar


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 10:43:57 mst
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 )
Subject: reproducibility

I've been a brewer and a subscriber for quite a while now
and yet, I never really have been saving any of the recipes
that have come across this digest because I really have little
faith in my ability to reproduce them.  Recently, someone
posted an article that mentioned this point.  It went something
like, "...if my roommate is able to reproduce the flavor
using my recipe, I'll post..."

My question is this: how much success have you had in reproducing
beers from other's recipes? The only way to judge this would be
something like making someone's "Oatmeal Stout" clone recipe and
seeing if it really does taste like Sam Smith's.  

Al.


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 09:58:50 -0500
From: zentner at ee.ecn.purdue.edu (Mike Zentner)
Subject: Dishwasher for Sanitation...


I would not treat this as an ideal sanitizing method for two reasons.
First, someone wrote in a while ago that when they put flour in the
bottles to see if they were rinsed enough on the inside, the flour
was still in the bottle after a cycle.  You could probably use the
"sanitize" setting on your dishwasher for heat-sanitizing your
bottles after rinsing out by hand any leftover crud (provided your
dishwasher gets hot enough to kill bugs).

Another consideration is to make sure all the labels are off of the
bottles before you run the dishwasher.  I tried this once only to
discover smelly black smoke coming out of the vents on the dry
cycle.  In the bottom of the washer by the heating coils, there
was a pile of smoldering labels.  Maybe that's just because I buy
cheap beer for bottles (Falls City), and the labels come off of these
bottles very easy in comparison to more mainstream brands.

Mike Zentner


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 10:49:50 PST
From: davrec at olivej.ATC.Olivetti.Com (David Reclite)
Subject: Removeval from Hombrew Mailing list



	I will be leaving this company soon.  Could you please remove
	me from the Homebrew Digest mailing list.

					Thanks,

					Dave Reclite

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 08:49 PST
From: Mark Freeman <MFreeman at VERMITHRAX.SCH.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: Sanitizing in the dishwasher?

    Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 10:49:08 EST
    From: Jeff Close <jclose at potomac.ads.com>
    Subject: Sanitizing in the dishwasher?


    Greetings.  I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried sanitizing in.. their
    dishwasher!?  I've contemplated running it empty a round or two on rinse to
    clean it out, then running my equipment through using sanitizing agent instead
    of dishwasher detergent.  Does this seem sound?  I can hardly fit my fermenters
    in my sink, and the dishwasher would run a lot hotter than I can clean by hand.
    Comments?  Thanks in advance..

    Na Zdorovia,
    Jeff

Andy Wilcox <andy at mosquito.cis.ufl.edu> made some comments about
this in HOMEBREW Digest #312, Wed 29 November 1989.  I would
offer one caveat: if you are sanitizing bottles, beware of
labels coming loose and clogging the plumbing.  (more of a
problem with foreign bottles than domestic ones) Otherwise, it
worked fine the one time I tried it.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 08:56 PST
From: Mark Freeman <MFreeman at VERMITHRAX.SCH.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: Front Street Pub (Santa Cruz Brewing)

California -- Santa Cruz:
  Front Street Pub (Santa Cruz Brewing) - at 516 Front Street in Santa Cruz.
    "It a nice western pub atmosphere, good bar food and Lighthouse Lager.
    Although it was slightly cloudy and the slightest yeast and dyacitil
    in the taste, I rated it a 40. The Lighthouse Amber had a perfect
    copper color and loses a point on body but has terrific drinkability.
    Their Pacific Porter was a sterling application of roasted malt.
    They had bottles to go."  (Out of action temporarily after recent
    earthquake.)

They are back in action.  I visited there at the end of December
in '89 and business was brisk.  Their Lighthouse Lager is also
available at the nearby Crow's Nest restaurant.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 08:59 PST
From: Mark Freeman <MFreeman at VERMITHRAX.SCH.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: City of Angels Pub/Brewery

California -- Santa Monica:
  City of Angels Pub/Brewery - opened in Jan.  Brewing and serving Heavenly 
    Gold, Angel Amber, City Light, and one seasonal beer.


Was still closed, last time I checked. 

Return to table of contents


Date:     Tue, 13 Feb 90 17:47 EST
From: <TED%BCVMS.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (Yawp!)
Subject:  Stainless Steel pressure cooker...

Greetings friends...

I don't usually read this discussion, so please post replies directly to
me -- TED at BCVMS.BITNET -- especially as I am posing this query for the
benefit of a friend without NET access....

My friend is constructing a personal still, and is on a quest for a boiler
made of steel or copper, rather than the aluminum which is so common...
This is the boiler whose vapors are trapped, so one which is specifically
designed for this purpose would be best... Any possible sources would be
most appreciated!

(and for myself -- addresses for the best mail-order houses you have used
in your home-brewing/distilling efforts -- I'll post the edited version of
this information for the benefit of all, as with the above.)

Thanks, and DWBHHAHB

Ted
Ted Thibodeau, Jr.      (Thud, Fyodor Ilyich Lobachevsy, Zamel)
MacTed -- Macintosh Consultant, Masseur & Jack-Of-All-Trades
80 Allston St, Basement, Allston, MA  02134          (617) 787-8796
InterNet:  TED at BCVMS.BITNET                         or  (617) 545-4561
Borough of Cnock Castan, Barony of Carolingia, East Kingdom

Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #357, 02/14/90
*************************************
-------

---