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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
***************************************************************
THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:
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Contents:
melanoidin malt (Fred Fogle)
Re: Singing the praises of ez-flip top (grolsch) bottles... (Stephen Neilsen)
Czech Tap Tower ("Sebastian Padilla")
mackelson triple stout recipe (Steven)
Prickly Pear (" Jim Bermingham")
CO2/headspace: quiestion for Sean ("Alan Meeker")
O2 Regulator for BernzOMatic ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
re: Rennarian breakdown ("Kensler, Paul")
Calibrating thermometers (John Adsit)
RE: food grade plastic fermentation bags ("J. Martin")
Re: taste of a bitter?? (Jeff Renner)
Steeping Grains ("Andrew Moore")
expanding brew store (happydog)
re: fermenters - continued ... ("Stephen Alexander")
MCAB update ("Dave Sapsis")
cylindroconical versus corny ("Steven M. Claussen")
Ring around the collar ("Tom Williams")
Re: CC fermenters ("Jamil")
Coffee and reusing yeast (D H)
Long Trail Ale clone ("Carlos A. Albuerne")
CC's and me (Frank Tutzauer)
malted wheat properties ("Info")
igloo vs. gott tuns (Ed Jones)
Plastic bag fermentors ("Don Van Valkenburg")
Belgian extract, sparkloid, Sweet brew ("jps")
RE:PLASTIC CONICAL (SRBOMAN1)
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Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:19:59 -0900
From: Fred Fogle <akita at eagle.ptialaska.net>
Subject: melanoidin malt
Hi I'm new so I hope I'm doing this right. I've got a doppelbock recipe
that calls for German melanoidin malt but dammed if I can find a place
to get it. I live on an island in alaska so I can't just go to the local
brew shop. Any help would be great.
Thanks Fred
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:25:27 +1100
From: Stephen Neilsen <sneilsen at bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Singing the praises of ez-flip top (grolsch) bottles...
""Now beer in my
>household only lasts about a maximum of six weeks per 5 gallon batch so maybe I
>don't keep the beer long enough to tell any difference. ""
Surely you mean six Days per 5 gallon batch !!
Stephen
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:01:55 -0000
From: "Sebastian Padilla" <sebastianpadilla at hotmail.com>
Subject: Czech Tap Tower
On the off chance-
I was hoping to get some help from you all. I will be in Prague in a couple
of weeks or so and I was thinking that I might be able to pick up a tap
tower for fairly cheap (Visions of Brass and Ceramic dance through my head).
Does anyone out there (especially any HBDers in Czech) know how I might go
about doing this? Do I need to find a restaurant supply store... or what?
Anyone know any specific places to go?
Thank you
Sebastian
Normally in Tucson, AZ
To long in old East Germany and craving an ale
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:18:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven <stevensl at mindspring.net>
Subject: mackelson triple stout recipe
I've recently fallen in love with mackelson's after picking up some at my
local store. Oddly the owner said he had never ordered it but the
vendor brought it in by accident so he figured it would sell. He was
right. Funny how things work out, i was looking for a good stout or porter
and it was the only stuff on the shelves.
Anyone have a good recipe for it?
Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net
/"\
\ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Say NO to HTML in email and news
X
/ \
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:47:16 -0600
From: " Jim Bermingham" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com>
Subject: Prickly Pear
John,
If you find a recipe for the prickly pear, I will let you have all the
prickly pear you want. 680 acres of it "YOU PICK" I will, however, furnish
you with a burner to remove the thorns.
Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:17:22 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: CO2/headspace: quiestion for Sean
Sean, thanks for the "data point." I'm a little confused by your
description of the set-up though. Did the two bottles "without air" have no
headspace at all? I'm assuming the ones with air had the 1/2 inch of
headspace you mentioned.
-Alan Meeker
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 09:49:06 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: O2 Regulator for BernzOMatic
>>Does anyone know of a regulator that fits the standard
>>Bernz-O-Matic 1.1 cu. ft. oxygen cylinder?
>Bob,
>Liquid Bread (the guys that make the Carbonator cap) sells a regulator that
>fits on the BernzOMatic cylinders.
>
>Paul Kensler
I bought one of these things and it seems to work fine. I can't complain
because every batch I do with the Oxygenator has a short lag time. But I
did have a problem with keeping the bubble stone in the beer. The hose will
re-coil and float only allowing it to sink a few inches into the brew. If
I'm lucky, I'd be able to wiggle it halfway down into the fermenter.
Solution: replace most of the hose with a plastic racking cane to make a
bubble wand. I can now get the stone to the bottom of the fermenter as well
as have something rigid to stir with.
My 2 cents.
Carpe cerevisiae!
Glen A. Pannicke
glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"Designs which work well on paper rarely do so in actual practice"
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:36:29 -0500
From: "Kensler, Paul" <Paul.Kensler at Cyberstar.com>
Subject: re: Rennarian breakdown
Doug Hurst pondered:
>It seems to me that Rennarian coordinates must break down when in
>Belgium. How could you be so far yet, at the same time, so close to the
>center of the brewing universe?
It's a different set of coordinates - Jeff Renner is the center of the
HOMEbrewing universe!
PK
Gaithersburg, MD
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 08:31:25 -0700
From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us>
Subject: Calibrating thermometers
All this talk recently about calibrating thermometers finally inspired
me to check mine. Since it is the only reasonably fragile piece of
equipment I have that I never manage to break, I have used it for a long
time, faithfully accepting its pronouncements as gospel.
The results?
Freezing = 36F
Body temp = 92F
Boiling (at 5,440 feet elevation) = 192F
I never dreamed it could be that far off. It's a good thing I tend to
mash at the low end of the suggested ranges. I am obviously going to
get a new thermometer.
I suggest that everyone who has not taken the few minutes it takes to
test their thermometers do so before they even think about brewing
another batch.
- --
John Adsit
Boulder, Colorado
jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:06:20
From: "J. Martin" <jmartin213 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: food grade plastic fermentation bags
I've actually brewed in food grade plastic fermentation bags. Done it about
three times actually. Not at home, but through the local brew-on-premises
place, Brew it Up. They use large plastic garbage can - like containers
which they line with the plastic bag.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:02:54 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: taste of a bitter??
"Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> wrote:
>I brewed a bitter maybe 6 weeks ago using Wyeast 1968 that went from about
>1.036 down to 1.006 -1.008. All british hopping to perhaps about 35 IBU
><snip>
>My question is that the brew tastes a bit on the thin side. It was just
>barely carbonated and normal fridge temp (upper 40s) when I tasted it. I
>have been to the UK and it doesn't taste like a normal british bitter. any
>ideas? Does bitter normally taste thin if not drawn on a hand pump? Perhaps
>a few more days of conditioning under gas
The main problem is probably that it is too cold. Normal
refrigerator temperature is not upper 40's but around 40F (4-5C). I
don't know what yours is. (What's more, it is likely to throw a
chill haze at fridge temps).
But even upper 40's is going to be hard on it. These beers taste
best at cellar temperature, or mid 50's (12-13C). More carbonation
will, if anything, probably make it taste even thinner.
Hand pumps knock some of the carbonation out, making the beer
smoother and more full bodied.
My suggestion is to figure out a way of keeping and serving it at
cellar temps and don't over carbonate. A pocket beer engine will
help make it taste smoother (that's a syringe that you draw up some
beer into and squirt back into the glass).
I have two insulated closets on the outside walls of my basement that
run about 48 F and 52 F in the winter. Maybe you could set up
something like this, or add a temperature controller to your fridge.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 12:01:24 -0500
From: "Andrew Moore" <abmjunk at hotmail.com>
Subject: Steeping Grains
I am new to homebrewing; my second batch is bubbling as I write. For this
batch, an extract Porter recipe from a book, I decided to experiment with
some flavoring grain. Both of the how-to books to which I referred suggested
simply steeping the grain in the brew pot, removing the grain prior to
boiling temperature (to avoid tannin, etc). Another source suggested
steeping the grain for a certain length of time at certain temperature and
then rinsing the grain at a slightly higher temperature (which sounds like
all-grain procedures). For the sake of simplicity, I chose to do the former.
Are there any thoughts on the relative merits of these methods?
Andrew Moore
Richmond, Virginia
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:29:41 GMT
From: happydog at nations.net
Subject: expanding brew store
Happy Dog Brewing will be expanding in the next 2-3 months into beer
sales, (kegs, imports, micro etc) as well as home bar equipment and
general beer "stuff" (Neon, T shirts, Hats, etc) as well as all the
home brewing lines I carry now. Kind of a one stop shop for all things
beer related. I have secured the funds and am actively looking for the
right location. I also have a go zillion questions for anyone that has
gone this route or frequents a store with the same "personality"
Such as,
What to do with/for the budmillercoors crowd. One can pay the rent
just selling the AB line, but I tend to want more micro and imports in
the store than bud. What have others done/do.
In my store now, I put together peoples grain bill for them and then
mill the grain for them. I want to go to self serve grain from bulk
bins. How has this worked for you or the in the store you go too?
I have a bunch of options on beer coolers, True, Bev air, Continental
New or used? Sliding doors or swinging? Anyone have any opinions? Good
bad experiences? How about an open front cooler like a "dairy case".
anyone use one? I will also be purchasing a walk in cooler for kegs?
Any thoughts on them?
How do folks handle the dust from your mill in your store. I was
thinking about building a separate neg pressure room for grain and
mill BUT that all cost a lot!. Anyone put together a "dust vent" they
care to talk about?
Anyone got any good ideas about the type of beer store you would like
to shop at? (other than "price and selection")
Do you go to a beer store that works well and has good ideas?
Would you/do you go to a store with beer as the main theme and buy
beer from them rather than the super market? If so why/why not?
Please drop me a line and let me know.
Wil Kolb
Happy Dog Brewing Supplies
401 W.Coleman Blvd
Mt Pleasant SC 29464
843-971-0805
Fax 843-971-3084
1-800-528-9391
happydog at nations.net
www.maltydog.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:17:22 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: fermenters - continued ...
George Fix writes ...
>The Beer,Beer, and More Beer units that Steve C. and I have been discussing
>are jacketed. In fact, precise temperature control is one of their strong
>points.
The "Beer beer and more beer" website at:
http://www.morebeer.com/catalog.php3?secID=befermentors&secName=Conical%2BFe
rmentors
describes 7.1gal, 12.2gal and 24 gal conical fermenter products with various
valve & outlet options. The text description describes no jacket. In
fact of the 7.1 gal conical it states, "will also fit in most any
refrigerator" which would make little sense if it was jacketed.
>They do this not by glycol cooling jackets as is done in commercial
>versions, but rather by a very unique and highly original system of heat
>removal.
The webpage describes a "Thermal Electric Cooling", which I take to mean a
Peltier junction cooling device. Some readers will be familiar with solid
state coolers that operate off of a vehicle 12v battery lighter socket.
Peltier junction take low voltage DC at very high currents and creates a
temperature differential across a junction attached to hot/cold plates.
They are expensive to purchase and operate.
>by a very unique and highly original system of heat removal.
Sorry, it's not unique and original. There were some highly original and
very innovative HBers who built and operated such chillers and posted to HBD
about them beginning in Jan 1994 ... seven+ years ago. For example ...
>Posting 3: Extracted from file: 1318
>Date: Thu, 06 Jan 94 01:42:05 EST
>From: bobreg at aol.com
>Subject: Peltier Thermoelectrics
>
>To the person who inquired about building a cooler with Peltier
>thermoelectric modules, I would advise doing a few calulations before you
>invest ANY money. A few years ago I worked with an applications engineer at
>Melcor, one of the largest manufacturers of Peltier modules, to design a
>cooler for carboys and corny kegs. I built a prototype cooler that worked
>very well, for about $125. You could probably build one cheaper these days,
>as the cost of Peltier modules has gone down.
>The problems was that I never considered how much the cost of power would
be.
>It ended up costing about $15 per month to operate the thing. [...]
I'm not putting BB&MBs product performance down in any way, but the
fermenter chilling method is not original to them.
BB&MB sells an internal and external version of the 12.2gallon CC "cooling
option" priced at $490 and $790 respectively - and this doesn't include the
CC fermenter at $390 and the lid at $68 (in SS). I was pleased to find on a
second search that they have a reasonable priced brass butterfly valve ($12)
too. I assume George Fix is referring to the external ($790) cooler unit
as "jacketed".
>This plus the highly favorable aspect ratio (sufficiently small
>height to diameter ratios) gives a uniform temperature throughout the unit.
Do such height to width ratios as described by DeClerc have any relevance to
a <1bbl fermenter ? It seems extremely unlikely as fermenter geometry
studies involve 60bbl-3000bbl units with entirely different scale of impact
from temp differences, CO2 solubility and pressures. Uniform temps would be
a plus though.
>I ferment lagers at 48 F with the unit in an ambient environment (around
here
>that is ~68 to 70 F).
That sounds terrific, as is the price.
>I have found the effect of the favorable geometry and precise temperature
>control to be significant.
The impact you attribute to these factors is significant, but I doubt anyone
can readily demonstrate that "geometry" is a factor that so influences
performance in this scale. Is there work that separates these factors or
measures their contribution ?
>For example, [...] starting extract of 15P (1.061) and a terminal extract
of
>3P (1.012) [...] in the BBMB unit in 11 -12 days [...] .
>At the other extreme were test brews using a cornelius keg
>[...] took at least twice as long and finished [...]
>4-5 P (1.016-1.020) range.
Let's stop short of claiming superiority for a CC fermenter by comparing it
to an obviously defective fermentation (1-2P lack of attenuation & 24+ day
ferment period). Most fermentations in any reasonable HB fermenter
(carboys, cornies, sankes of pails) do not exhibit this sort of defective
behavior.
>I personally feel that this effect is the single
>most reproduciable advantage that comes with a unit configured along the
>lines of the BBMB unit.
So defective fermentations in the control samples were the most reproducible
impact of testing a CC !? A double blind experiment would be needed to
untangle fact from feeling I think.
I can understand an improvement due to a temp controlled fermenter,
regardless of geometry. I am dubious of claims that fermenter geometry
makes a difference in fermentation on this small scale though. I can't see
any physical basis for it. Obviously the CC cone does impact the trub/yeast
removal convenience, and with a chiller it would suddenly make a lot more
sense to secondary, clear or maybe even lager in the CC (given enough
chilling capacity).
I have nothing against BB&MB or their products, in fact they look pretty
nice on their web page, but can the price be justified by convenience or
improved quality of the resulting beer as compared to other expenditures ?
If fermenter temp consistency, fermenter geometry and trub/yeast removal
really do provide great advances in beer quality then I think that these
can be had for a lot less money, tho less conveniently.
-S
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:56:13 -0800
From: "Dave Sapsis" <dsapsis at earthlink.net>
Subject: MCAB update
Good Folks,
The MCAB3 website www.bayareamashers.org/mcab3/ is now fully functional
regarding event registration, judge registration, and entry registration.
If you qualified and plan to enter, plan to attend and/or judge, please
avail yourself of these features.
Hotel reservations must be made by April 6 to get the corporate rate we
negotiated.
*NOTE* It is imperative that any qualifying brewer who plans to hand deliver
their entries on Friday 4/27 do the online registration.
Hope to see you in Berkeley,
- --dave sapsis
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 10:29:05 -0800
From: "Steven M. Claussen" <sclaussen at mail.kindercare.com>
Subject: cylindroconical versus corny
Stephen Alexander has alot to say about my defense of cylindroconical
fermentors. Stephen remains undaunted by his lack of experience using a
CC, and this shows in his somewhat misinformed critque. If you are ever
in Portland, Stephen, I invite you to stop by and brew with me so you
can experience the joys of a CC first hand. I do not claim that the CC
is the be all and end all, simply that it is the best tool (by an order
of magnitude) that I have found to do the job.
I also want to comment specifically on Stephen's valid point that I did
not previously provide much justification for my preference of the CC as
a fermentor over a corny. I used cornies exclusively as fermentors for
several years (both 5 and 10 gallon) and, through practical experience,
have identified the following advantages of the CC over a corny: (1) A
corny is a tall narrow vessel, while the CC is relatively wider and
shallower (i.e., a more "modest aspect ratio" for you scientific
types). As a result, beer clears much more quickly in the CC than in a
corny. (2) If you are doing a ten gallon batch in two five gallon
cornies, you have to worry about evenly splitting the wort between two
vessels and trying to evenly (and adequately) pitch to each. The 12.2
gallon CC nicely solves this problem. (3) A five gallon brew in a five
gallon corny gives excessive blow off (waste not, want not!). (4) The
side racking port on a CC gives much more control over avoiding
transferring excess yeast and spoooge when racking than I was able to
obtain with a corny. (5) the CC allows you to do either open or closed
fermentation, or a hybrid of the two. (6) My completely anecdotal
non-variable controlled experience is that fermentation finishes quicker
in the CC and finishing gravity is consistently lower than a similar
brew fermented in a corny (generally about 2 points SG). According to
my offline discussion with George Fix (nice guy, by the way), there is
apparently some scientific data supporting this as well.
Steve Claussen in PDX
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:44:43 -0500
From: "Tom Williams" <williams2353 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Ring around the collar
Jason writes:
" On several of my last batches of beer I get ring around the collar. ....
I was wondering if it could be caused by priming with DME? "
I have also experienced this, and was recently offered an explanation by my
friendly neighborhood homebrew supplier. He said that priming with DME (I
do this also) results in a "mini-krausen" in the bottle, and the ring is the
result. He further asserted that priming with corn sugar would not do this.
After this conversation, I inspected some of my bottle rings, and I think he
may be right. The only reservation I have with this theory is that the
rings seem to be more prevelant the longer the beer has been bottled. This
would not be consistent with the "mini-krausen" theory.
Anybody else with rings?
Cheers,
Tom Williams
Dunwoody, Georgia
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:45:51 -0800
From: "Jamil" <jamilz at citlink.net>
Subject: Re: CC fermenters
> The CC fermenters appear to me to fail a very basic test. No one has yet
> advanced an argument here that it improves beer quality, much less
improves
> it *more* than alternative expenditures. I look forward to hearing about
> George Fix' experiments and results.
I've got two CC fermenters from http://www.morebeer.com . I'd agree with you
that they don't make a lot of sense if they don't improve the quality of the
beer, but the fact (at least to me) is that they DO improve the beer!
On my third batch after getting my CC fermenters, I did a little experiment.
I split a 10 gallon batch of Robust Porter into a 7 gallon CC and a 7 gallon
carboy. Both went into the same fridge for temp control and I pitched
equivalent amounts of yeast slurry into both batches.
The CC reached TG at 5 days, while the carboy took 8 days. In a blind
tasting, the carboy batch clearly had much higher levels of diacetyl and
some additional esters. The difference was so pronounced, that it completely
convinced me that the CC was the way to go. There is also some interesting
information in George Fix's Analysis of Brewing Techniques, pages 104 - 108
about CC fermenters, their shape, and their effect on flavor. I know the
BB&MB folks designed their fermenters based on this research.
It seems, from reading Fix and others, that a corny keg would be a really
bad choice for a fermenter, because it is so tall and thin. Fix mentions
some negative effects on flavors from tall, thin fermenters. And for me at
least, a soda keg is just about as difficult to clean as a carboy, since my
forearm won't fit inside that little opening.
I think it boils down to this. If you're making so-so beer now don't bother
getting the CC fermenters, since you probably won't notice the improvement.
Spend your time and money taking steps to improve the rest of your process
until you start making decent beer. However, once you feel you are making
great beer, the investment in the CC fermenters will make a noticable
difference that, IMHO, makes a great beer truely outstanding. These
stainless steel CC fermenters are absolutely fantastic.
JZ
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:31:38 -0800 (PST)
From: D H <uqob at yahoo.com>
Subject: Coffee and reusing yeast
Greetings,
Need some feedback on some ideas and some answers to
some general questions:
1. Someone recommended to me reusing yeast from a
batch just brewed. Here's how the process would work:
On the 3rd day when I am swapping wort(1) into the
secondary fermenter, I also have a new batch of
wort(2) to transfer onto the yeast that settled out in
the first 72 hours of wort(1)
I understand from the person who suggested it that
activity starts much quicker than pitching.
My worry, of course is that off flavors will be
transfered from the yeast that isn't dormant but dead
from the alcohol content of wort(1)
Any comments from more experienced brewers or
individuals who have tried this method?
2. Coffee and beer:
I would like to use coffee in a brew:
a) should I steep the grounds in a hop bag or
just toss them in the mash?
b) should I not use grounds but beans instead?
c)Should I not do this at all because of some
problem with caffeine and yeasts?
3. I know oxidation of hot wort is bad, very, very
bad. But is there any significant danger to cooled
wort (65F) when transferring to the primary fermenter?
I ask because I used a wort chiller (copper coils) to
chill my wort straight from the stove. This worked
great, but I still needed to pour it through a
strainer to get out the hops. Being poured into a 6
gallon bucket that's a fair amount of splashing.
Did I ruin my brew?
I thank folks in advance for any helpful information.
Cheers,
uqob at yahoo.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:04:53 -0500
From: "Carlos A. Albuerne" <albuerne at sover.net>
Subject: Long Trail Ale clone
Can anyone point me to a recipe for Long Trail Ale? I've
looked at various sources and haven't found one yet. Thanks.
Carlos Albuerne
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:23:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: CC's and me
Stephen A writes:
>I apparently did stir up a conversation re cylindro-conical fermenters.
Hoo boy, I'll say.
Me:
>>No, of course not. You put the 3.5 gallon barleywine in a carboy and
>>save the CC for other brews.
Stephen A:
>If a CC fermenter had any quality advantages you'd certainly want to use it
>on all of your beers Frank. Would you really spend all that time making a
>barleywine and then compromise the quality by not using your CC ?
I agree with you that the CC has no significant quality advantages, so I've
got no problem putting the barleywine in the carboy.
>>If you've
>>got a CC fermenter, that doesn't mean you're not allowed to ferment in
>>anything else.
>Having a car doesn't mean you can't take a bus, and having access to brewing
>yeast doesn't mean you can't brew with bread yeast - but you won't find many
>doing it exactly because the extra cost is justified by the quality or
>convenience.
Well, yeah, but if SWMBO's got the car and I need to get somewhere I take the
stupid bus. If the CC's full and I want another brew, then I use a carboy.
As I said the other day: Big deal!
If, as Stephen A is arguing, there is no serious quality advantage of the CC,
then there is no merit to the multiple-fermenter argument (which is why the
beer/bread yeast analogy does not apply--there is certainly a huge quality
difference there).
There still might be other advantages to a CC -- yeast harvesting,
convenience, coolness factor, whatever (advantages the existence of which,
BTW, I am not competent to comment on) -- but if it's full it's full and you
just have to ride the bus instead. So I can't harvest the yeast this time (or
whatever). So what...
>If you could get a *justifiable* amount of improvement or
>convenience from a CC fermenter as compared to their cost then we would use
>these exclusively too.
Well, what's justifiable is completely subjective. Some people can justify a
Porsche, most of us can't. But even if you can justify a Porsche doesn't make
it your exclusive means of transportation. Even if the CC is incredibly more
convenient, using other fermenters is not so inconvenient that one would give
up their use altogether.
>My point remains that the cost of a CC fermenter is
>probably not justified for most of us.
I agree with this completely.
All of my contribution to this thread is kind of weird because I disagree with
only one of Stephen A's arguments, and I agree with all of his other arguments
(to the extent I can evaluate things I've never seen). But because I've been
voicing disagreement to the one argument it makes it sounds like he and I are
on opposite sides of the general debate, which is not true. I look at the
pictures in B3, and I drool a little bit, and then I look at the price, and I
think how the hell can I afford it and where would I put it and how would I
cool it and do I really want to harvest yeast anyway, and then I come back
down to earth and realize that a CC is not for me. Always the Honda, never
the Porsche.
Ah well...
--frank
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:35:01 -0300
From: "Info" <info at alean.com.ar>
Subject: malted wheat properties
Argentina is a country producing a lot of wheat, but as a Homebrewer I can't
get malted wheat in this area.
My idea is to malt my self, and because there are several types of wheat, I
would like to get some info on the properties of a good wheat to be used for a
weissbier.
Surfing the net I found that in England they use a variety of wheat comming
from Germany called Atlantis as a very good Wheat for weissbier.
Nobody here knows this type of wheat. Here you find Candeal, Motte,
Baguette.....
Due to this I would like to know wich is the profile from a good wheat for my
applicattion, and I'll try to match one of the available here to it. Also I
would like
to get an e-mail address from wheat malters to contact them, perhaps we can
import some malted wheat if many of my Argentine coleagues want to buy with
me.
I would appreciatte private e-mails.
Mauricio Wagner
Buenos Aires - Argentina
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:10:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Ed Jones <ejones at sdl.psych.wright.edu>
Subject: igloo vs. gott tuns
I'm slowly gathering the bits to go all-grain and I've decided on using
10 gallon round water coolers. Our local GFS store sells the 10 gallon
igloo variety for $39. Are these physically similar to the gott 10
gallon ones and if so, can they take the heat of mashing/sparging?
Also, what are the rough limits in terms of pounds of grain that can
be mashed in one of these? Thanks for the help!
- --
Ed Jones
"When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment,
I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am
confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery."
- written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:53:05 -0800
From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <don at steinfillers.com>
Subject: Plastic bag fermentors
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies asks about food grade plastic fermentation
bags
We have been selling them for several years now. The ones we carry are
thick 4 mill drum liners with conforming bottoms. This insures no straining
on the bag and are great with the 15 gal drums we get malt in. We rinse out
the drums and resale them - the ultimate in recycling.
I have sold lots of them to winemakers during the fall when grapes are
coming in. The drums are easiest to use if you simply cut off the top and
make a couple handle holes on the top. Don't worry about an air lock.
Simply bunch up the plastic, fold it once and wrap a strong rubber band
around the neck. If you have ever done wine you know you need to punch down
the cap twice daily during the first week and the open top makes this easy
to get into.
It also works well with beer. It is the cheapest 15 gal fermentor one can
buy.
The beauty of the bags is the clean-up. Just pull out of the drum and toss.
Don Van Valkenburg
brew at steinfillers.com
www.steinfillers.com
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:46:17 -0500
From: "jps" <segedy at gsinet.net>
Subject: Belgian extract, sparkloid, Sweet brew
I have a couple of questions for the collective:
1. I am planning to try a partial mash of the Belgian red in last May's
Zymurgy (Pg 11). The article/recipe doesn't specify how much extract to
substitute for the 9 lbs. of pale malt. Looking through other recipes I am
guessing about 6 lbs of extract. Does this sound right? Also the recipe
calls for 1/2 lb of 110L crystal but the crystal I was able to get locally
is only 60L. Should I double the amount?
2. I have a bag of Sparkaloid that I got at a yardsale last year without
instructions. Any suggestions of amount and method of use. It came with
some large filter paper look like huge coffee filters. Do I need to strain
the beer after fining with this or will it just settle?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Also a recent thread regarding an overly sweet beer that may have stuck
wanted to know what to do with it. I have some Boch that I made last summer
that I found sweeter than my tastes prefer, so I have been drinking it cut
1/2 & 1/2 with a lighter highly carbonated ale. Sort of like a black and
tan, & I have an excuse to drink twice as much beer.
John Segedy
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:59:49 EST
From: SRBOMAN1 at cs.com
Subject: RE:PLASTIC CONICAL
I also have had the experience with the plastic conical lid not sealing.. To
solve the problem I have placed five C-clamps around the rim. This has
proved to adequately seat the lid onto the gasket. If you did not purchase
the gasket, order it; or I have heard that taking 1\2 inch to 3/4 inch
plastic tubing and slitting it will also serve as an adequate gasket.
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