HOMEBREW Digest #3586 Wed 21 March 2001

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  Could it be a flamethrower? (Gene Collins)
  Zep Acid Sanitizer (EdgeAle)
  Re:  CO2 output ("Joel King")
  Various ("elvira toews")
  RE;RE: Mashing Laaglander Light DME ("Steven Parfitt")
  Rye Malt (leavitdg)
  Water (AJ)
  RE: mail order vs local (Brian Lundeen)
  GFCI's (fridgeguy)
  GFI and fridge, Chris Topoleski water analysis ("Tracy P. Hamilton")
  re: More Wide Ranging Questions ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Mail-order vs local, Fringes of Style ("Drew Avis")
  GFCI (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Jolly Rancher Adjuncts ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  a few things (Marc Sedam)
  rectangular vs. round, shops, lemons (Road Frog)
  RE: Braided PVC Tubing ("Scott W. Nowicki")
  ss welding (Alexandre Carminati)
  My idea of a homebrewed chiller (Steven)
  Braided PVC Tubing ("Andrew Moore")
  Over-Extraction of Specialty Grains ("Andrew Moore")
  Re: Hard Candy as an Adjunct ("Charles R. Stewart")
  Re: More wide ranging questions ("Daniel C Stedman")
  Re: keg purging with CO2 (Spencer W Thomas)
  RE: Braided PVC tubing ("Walker, Randy")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:18:04 -0600 From: Gene Collins <GCollins at cranecarrier.com> Subject: Could it be a flamethrower? I just finished welding up my new three keg gravity enhanced brewing stand. I am so looking forward to the presumed improvement of my homebrews to come. My dilemma; no burners yet. I went down to the local useless home improvement stores and tore the shelves apart looking for some simple, cast iron burners. I have one in my turkey fryer that works pretty well, but is advertised at around 60,000 BTU's. I talked to my local brew supply and they recommended the home improvement stores. Being web active, I have looked around some different websites and the best deal I have come across is a 160,000 BTU burner from the Brinkmann company (www.thebrinkmannco.com) that makes grills, cookers, flashlights, etc... Twenty bucks each and they are all mine. Is this a good deal or overkill? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 01:14:47 EST From: EdgeAle at cs.com Subject: Zep Acid Sanitizer HBD, Does anyone have any experience using Zep FS Formula 386 Acid Sanitizer? I just got some from a brewing friend who swears by it but I have some questions. The label says it is a multi-purpose no-rinse cleaner sanitizer that removes milkstone and alkaline mineral deposits. Apparently it is a quat ammonia compound combined with phosphoric acid. I have heard that quats aren't that good for brewing because: a) quats destroy head and have poor rinsability plus they aren't as effective against typical brewing bacteria (gram- negative?) and require long contact times. However, my friend's beers have no head problems plus I also seem to recall that quats were alkaline while this is definitly acid. Am I recalling wrong? Could this quat formulation not suffer from the faults of past sanitizers? I was just wondering if anyone on the HBD has any experience or knowledge of this specific sanitizer? Thanks Dana Edgell Edge Ale Brewery, Oceanside CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:37:35 -0000 From: "Joel King" <joel_d_king at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: CO2 output Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 17:29:18 -0600 From: Rob <shrav at swbell.net> My son and I did a science project a couple of years ago to investigate just that thing. The short result: ml CO2 / ml solution = 0.3007 x change in SG So, if 5 gallons of beer fermented from an SG of 40 to 10, you would get: (0.3007)*(40 - 10) = about 9 gallons of CO2. Now whether that is the CORRECT answer or not, I don't know - that was just what we measured, and I've never done a stociometric check of the fermentation equation (or even a spelling check of stociometric). Subject: CO2 output question I was wondering if there is anyway to calculate how much CO2 is = generated (roughly) by a 5 gallon wort fermentation process? I know = that's a pretty broad question, because obviously CO2 is created at = different rates depending where in the fermentation cycle the wort is = in.. I thought maybe there was a way to calculate based on the = difference in starting and final gravities for a given volume of wort.. = Also, I was wondering, is CO2 the only gas being given off through the = airlock in this process? thanks rob Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:22:41 -0600 From: "elvira toews" <etoews1 at home.com> Subject: Various First, I knew that using my mother-in-law's computer was going to come back to haunt me. I wonder how much beer Brian Lundeen will extort from me to keep it quiet at the next Brew Bombers meeting. Unless I use Cascades in all my beers from now on. As Brian and Jeremy pointed out, my recipe indeed resembles "brewpub ale" from some regions of NA. I spent five days in Philadelphia and it took a month before I could taste normal hopping levels again. Thanks for your comments guys. And if you want it to look like Red River water, shake the bottle before pouring. I don't know about wild hops. My father has some feral hops at his cottage (survivors of the New York state hop fields, perhaps) and despite being recognizably some kind of Fuggle, they are pretty funky in a beer. A "hopping" expedition would be a fun club excursion, though. Re the ground-faulting fridge, I would think that before giving up (unacceptable) or chancing your life that it's merely an inductive load problem (less acceptable), you could test the fridge. The required device is called a "megger" and is simply an ohmmeter on steroids, and is used to test the integrity of insulation by applying a voltage between the conductors and ground. This is your life, so find yourself an electrician. If anyone knows, I am curious to know what an acceptable reading would be. Re. CO2: C6H12O6 = 2 CO2 + 2 C2H5OH There are a few ways of applying this, all of which get complicated by things like you aren't using dextrose, water of hydration, alcohol by volume instead of mass, real vs. apparent attenuation, etc. Not all of the sugars go to CO2 & alcohol, but I think your purposes don't require accurate accounting of the gain in mass of the yeast. If you use degrees Plato it's easier - each degree P is 10 g sugar per Litre of water. 180 g of sugar gives 44.8 standard Liters of CO2. Just apply the ratios to figure out what's going on. It would beat opening the fermenter to take SG readings daily. It's easier to simply measure the total CO2 output of a batch, divide it by the SG drop in units of your choice, and write it down for future reference as your personal conversion factor. Re. Late oxygenation in commercial practice - might it be related to high-gravity brewing? It's what the big breweries do in Canada. The very carefully measured oxygen additions during fermentation cancel out the flavour effects of the high gravity, they then dilute with water at bottling time. It gets 20% more beer out of a fermenter. Re. keg purging. You can get nearly 0% oxygen in a single purge by filling your keg to the hatch with water or no-rinse sanitizer, closing it up and blowing it out with CO2. Sure, some air will get mixed back in as you rack and close up, but I recently "found" a 2-year old keg of my beer and it was not obnoxiously oxidized. Well, I was thirsty. Happy (and safe!) brewing everyone! Sean Richens srichens at sprint.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:25:30 -0500 From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com> Subject: RE;RE: Mashing Laaglander Light DME Pablo Queries about the Starch testing of Laaglander ..... snip >I have a couple of unanswered questions: ..... snip >Original Hypothesis - Laagalnder Light DME contains unconverted >starches >Q: Did you do a starch test on just the Laaglander DME, without >crushed >grain present? I suspect you may find no starch. If this is >the case, then >the Laaglandershigh FG is due to dextrins, not starches. Yes, the original test was just a starch test of Laaglander Light and water that I had boiled for a starter. I performed a starch test on it and found it positive. After that I did not starch tests on Laaglander Light only as It would have been redundant. snip >Q: What was your mash temperature? I suspect you tended to the lower >end >of the temp range (152F? Lower?) Onthe test mash, I took the mash up to 158 and let it slide back to 140, then back up to 158 again. Continue til done. This was in a 1qt sauce pan, so thermal mass was minimal. The temp varied considerably. When I did the IPA, i hit 154 and tried to adjust the burner (electric eye) to hold that temp. It crept up to 160, I cut back and it dropped to 150 before I finished. >I don't used Laaglander myself, (I used Munton&Fison in my extract >days) >but know of several people who do, that will benefit from your >experiment. I also like Muntons (no longer marked Munton & Fison, just Muntons) I have not been able to locate any DME from Muntons, so I only use their liquid. I use Laaglander DME as my dry powder. This experiment was performed on Laaglander Light DME. It has a reputation of having the highest percentage of nonfermentables of the available DME from Laaglander. I do not know how it compares with their Amber and Dark DME with regards to starch content. It seems like I saw web site store with posted percentages for each. If I can find it again, I will post the URL for those who are interested. Steven - Ironhead Nano-Brewery, Under Construction. Johnson City, TN http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=241124&a=1791925 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian "Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von Bismarck Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:51:18 -0500 (EST) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: Rye Malt I am in the process of purchasing some rye malt. Does anyone know what is the max that one could add to a 10lb grain bill? .Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:58:06 -0400 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Water Let me comment on Chris's water (which I seem to understand better than GFI's: a strange state of affairs considering my profession). The water is pretty typical coastal surface water. In saying this I assume that the iron figure should read < 10 ppb rather than 10 ppm and similarly for the copper. Given that, it is suitable for brewing almost everything except Bohemian Pilsners for which the sulfate could cause problems. Dilution 1:1 with distilled water should solve that problem. The alkalinity of 76 ppm is partly balanced by hardnesses of 96 for calcium and 37 for magnesium resulting in a residual alkalinity (Kohlbach) of 43 which should result in an acceptable mash pH in all but cases where only the palest malts are mashed with no colored malts at all. For British style ales you will want to augment the sulfate. Gypsum is the obvious choice. Add successively more to subsequent brews (starting with a quarter of half teaspoonful for 5 gal) until you get a result you like. The chloride is fine but you might want to augment it somewhat to round or fill out the sweetness and body of the beer. For this purpose a little non iodized table salt is fine though calcium chloride can be used for this as well with the advantage of more calcium and lower mash pH. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:52:39 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: mail order vs local Stephen Ross rants: > Paddock Wood started because there were no local shops > catering to serious > all-grainers. We have discovered that similar situations > exist all across > Canada. If it weren't so, we would be out of business. We > have no desire to > compete with other cities' local shops. Homebrewers saving a few bucks > ordering mail-order can doom their local shop. But until > such time as local > shops in Canada carry more than kits, Paddock Wood will have a growing > mail-order business. I get immense satisfaction at enabling someone in > Vancouver or Halifax to brew great beer, and even more satisfaction at > bringing the same great ingredients to far flung towns and > remote villages > like Iqaluit, Baffin Island, NWT, or Toronto. > First of all, Stephen, it is unfair to equate these two centers. If I am not mistaken, Iqaluit has a thriving homebrew club. ;-) (Sorry, Darryl, my bad). On to the main point of the rant. As an all-grain brewer, I feel that Stephen is being far too generous toward the local shops. Simple fact is, all-grain brewers will neither keep most local shops in business nor cause their demise. They live and die on kits; in these parts, primarily wine. It's the regulars that pop in every two weeks to pick up their red and white wine kits ("ooh, let's try a Burgundy this week") who keep our shops afloat. The small amount of profit they will make bringing something in for me means squat in the big picture. Besides which, past efforts in this regard have often been met with frustration. They can't get (or often have never even heard of) what I want; they substitute without telling me thinking I won't mind; they make me wait weeks till THEY are ready to place an order, then get the order wrong. There is only one place in Canada that offers me good variety and good service, and that is Stephen's store. If I can't get what I want there, I probably don't need it (with the exception of Gambrinus' ESB and Munich 100 malts, which I have pestered Stephen for on a few occasions). I can even get undermodified Pils malt from PW, should the masochist in me decide to attempt a decocted Budvar clone someday. Without PW, I would have to go to the big mail order places in the US such as St Pat's to get such a selection, and I would pay dearly for it in shipping and customs charges. I NEED Paddock Wood to stay in business. How is giving my grain and hops business to the local shops going to further that goal, especially when it really means nothing to their bottom line? Unless you have a really kick-ass local shop in your community, I would encourage the all-grain brewers in Canada to concentrate your buying dollars with the only good mail order supplier we have. Unlike the US, we are few and far between and splitting our votes may cost us in the long run. Concentrating our dollars with the front runner means they can expand and offer us even better selection and values. Who knows, maybe someday Lynne will approach them about being the US distributor for one of their exclusive lines. Well, we can dream. And of course, NAJASCYYY. Stephen, that gift certificate can be made out to... just kidding. The opinions expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Winnipeg Brew Bombers homebrew club, or any of its subsidiaries. Cheers, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:03:08 -0500 From: fridgeguy at voyager.net Subject: GFCI's Greetings folks, In HBD #3585, the subject of GFCI's lives on... and on. Jason Henning wrote a great description of how a GFCI is affected by inductive loads. He went on to dispel some mistruths in recent posts - one of the statements was mine. I stated that " If the GFCI doesn't trip when a substantial load is applied (try a blow dryer), it is probably ok." Jason stated (correctly) that a GFCI doesn't provide overload protection. My statement was taken out of context. I apologize for any confusion and I'll try to clarify the situation. In my experience the most common failure mode for a single phase GFCI receptacle is for the comparator circuitry to simply stop working. This means the GFCI can no longer detect a current imbalance and therefore it doesn't provide any protection beyond that of a standard receptacle. All GFI receptacles I have encountered are equipped with a test button that connects a resistor (15 kilohm on a Leviton 6599-1) between the incoming neutral terminal and the output hot terminal. The instructions provided with the GFCI's states that the test button should be used monthly to assure proper protection. Pressing the test button should trip the GFCI and open the circuit to both receptacles on the GFCI itself and any receptacles connected to the load terminals of the device. If the comparator circuitry isn't functioning, pressing the test button won't trip the GFCI. In Bob Sutton's post, he mentioned that his GFCI tripped when his fridge was plugged into it, and that it happened only since a power failure occurred. Since the GFCI tripped, I assumed it's comparator circuitry was functioning, but maybe not correctly. Another common failure mode for a single phase GFCI receptacle is for the comparator circuitry to become too sensitive. In such cases the test button will trip the GFCI. It is also common for the GFCI to accept the application of a small load without trouble, but will trip when a larger load is applied. I see this quite often. A recent case is where a microscope lamp wouldn't trip the GFCI but a computer did (yes, I tested the computer for leakage and plugged it into several other GFCI receptacles without trouble). Bob mentioned in his post that he had plugged a "simple timer" into his GFCI without tripping it. I put his statement that his GFCI tripped when his fridge was plugged into it together with his statement that he had plugged a timer into the GFCI without tripping it. Bob had provided me with enough information to cover the first two tests I would likely perform. Using my prior experience as a guideline, I suggested that he plug a large load into the GFCI, and that if it didn't trip, the GFCI was probably ok. The above suggestion was used to check against a common failure mode for a GFCI receptacle. I did not mean to imply anything else. I also didn't think it was necessary to fill the digest with every detail about each component I mentioned nor their operation and design details. In the same digest, A.J. deLange conceded that his GFCI post pertained to polyphase equipment, and not the single phase device I mentioned. A.J., Thank you for the clarification. Since GFCI receptacles have been discussed here before and the information is readily available elsewhere, I don't believe anything beyond troubleshooting information is needed in a post dealing with troubleshooting a fridge. Also in the same digest, Bob Sutton brought us episode II of his fridge dilemma, where he told us his fridge also tripped a different GFCI when he plugged it in via an extension cord. Thanks for the update, Bob. Please know that it's possible that GFCI will nuisance trip when it's either located at the end of a long wiring run or when using a long extension cord due to the inductive effects Jason Henning mentioned. This is particularly true when an inductive load is applied (such as a fridge compressor). I've never actually seen this occur - not even on construction sites with hundreds of feet of extension cord. YMMV In my first post, I meant to include a reference to a prior post I sent regarding wet fridge insulation and associated current leaks, but alas, I remembered it after I hit the send button. The gist of the post is that moisture in the various components in a fridge can provide a small current leakage path that will trip a GFCI. It can also shock the (* at #(^$% out of you if any part of the grounding circuit is faulty (including the receptacle and household wiring). When performing resistance checks on the fridge, isolate and check all of the various components. Once again, each should ideally read infinite resistance. Look especially at any cabinet lights and door heaters. If any component reads less than 2-3 megohms to ground, it needs to be dealt with. It may be possible to simply dry the offending part with gentle heat from a blow dryer. Please report your findings. Lastly, I'm very truly sorry for the mess my post stirred up on this list. Please accept my apology. Forrest Duddles - -- Pop3Now Personal, Manage 5 Email Accounts From 1 Secure Window Sign Up Today! Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:14:46 -0600 From: "Tracy P. Hamilton" <chem013 at uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu> Subject: GFI and fridge, Chris Topoleski water analysis To Bob, who had the fridge that kept tripping the GFI: I had a similar experience after a power outage. It turned out that the loss of power started melting the ice around the coils (unseen since they are on the other side of the cabinet). Eventually after a complete defrosting and removal of dampness did it run again. Did I mention that the power outage was due to SWMBO unplugging it? :) To Chris Topoleski: Your water sounds terrific. You can always add some salts if you want british ales. Particularly gypsum in the mash in your case. I would try 2 teaspoons if it is fluffy powder. Maybe a pinch of epsom salts (be careful with this one), and a bit of table salt (1/2 teaspoon?) in 5 gallons. Some calcium carbonate in addition (and cut back the gypsum) in dark ales. And your filter will not remove any of the ions already in your water if it is carbon based. Tracy P. Hamilton Birmingham Brewmasters Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:20:29 -0500 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: re: More Wide Ranging Questions Nils is back with more questions - >1) I'll be bottling the Honey Porter I made this coming weekend. Somewhere I read that you can use a mixture of ammonia & water to remove the labels off beer bottles. But, now I can't find the reference. Anyone know what dillution mixture would be used? ammonia & water is very effective at removing most labels. the metallic labels are more resistant - I've got enough bottles that I no longer bother with them. the mixture doesn't have to be very strong. I've used approx 1 1/2 cups in a trash can half filled with bottles & water. PBW is also very effective - use it for cleaning purposes first, then soak your bottles. you get double mileage that way. >2) I'll be brewing the Honey Porter again, but using the recipe's suggetion of Wyeast Irish Ale instead, but this will be the 1st time I'll be using wet yeast. Effectively, what's the difference between Wyeast & Whitelabs & which would you recommend? I thought the main difference was that the Whitelab was immediately pitchable, & Wyeast needed to have a starter made. But, the guy at the brewing store said that the Wyeast was immediately pitchable too. Wyeast does now make ready to pitch yeast as well as the more common smack-packs. So it depends on which one you've got (if the store said it's pitchable, than it's probably the newer toothpaste type packaging) 3) I'm also planning on dry hopping, but the original recipe doesn't call for it. What amount of which hops (bittering or aroma) should be added? I only have access to pelletized hops if that makes a difference. dry hopping is used to add more aroma - so use aroma hops, not a bittering style. pellets are fine, start with a smaller amount (ounce or less for 5 gal) and see how you like it. you can always add more in later batches - but too much can yield a grassy note >4) Any way to reduce the undesirable flatulent affects of beer? why would you want to? just kidding. possibly try some of the less carbonated styles - the higher the carbonation, the more gas, etc etc >5) A local Caribbean restaurant introduced me to my new favorite drink called a Raddler. It might be a play on the Snakebite, since it's made with 1/2 Newcastle & 1/2 non-alcoholic Ginger Beer. It's a very refreshing drink, the ginger beer cuts the alcohol & the alcohol cuts the ginger taste. It's kind of like a dark Zima. Any ideas on the history of this drink? Is it really from the Caribbean? No, Radler is a German concoction - traditionally a combo of beer & lemonade, I believe it got it's start among German bicyclists and became popular from there >6) Is there a problem with pitching too much yeast in the wort? I would like to try splitting a batch after the boil & use 2 different types of yeast to see how they affect the beer. Should I reduce the yeast for these 2.5 gallon batches? you'd have to pitch an awful lot of yeast before it became a problem. underpitching the yeast is a more common problem. in fact, pitching a large starter is one of the best things you can do for your beer Mark Tumarkin Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:22:33 From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: Mail-order vs local, Fringes of Style Regarding Stephen Ross' recent rant on mail-order brewing supplies in Canada, all I can say is "rant on brother." I'm a direct beneficiary of Stephen's service, having moved from a city well-served by excellent brew shops (Calgary) to one almost devoid of anything better than stale kits and a few yellowing hops (Ottawa). If PW were to disappear, I'd be hard pressed to find decent hops, yeast, chemicals, equipment, and all the other little goodies required to make decent beer, without resorting to ordering from the States, suffering the exchange, duty, and exorbitant UPS customs brokerage charges. Granted, I buy malt from a local maltster, but PW supplies everything else. PW has become my "local brew shop". Sean "Elvira" Richens reports on his new style, "Winnipeg Lager". I'm also exploring a new style. To seek penance for my previous beer style infractions (I don't think Brian Lundeen will ever recover from my Mausebock - Brian, is your vision still blurry?) I've embarked on an exploration of more enjoyable, less toxic, new beer styles. I call these the Funky Belgian Mild (FBM), and the Modern Belgian Porter (MBP), the bastard offspring of Abbey beers and British dark ales. The description of these beers is simple: take your standard British dark mild, southern brown ale, or brown porter, hopped on the low side, and ferment with a phenolic Belgian yeast. The unique "Belgian" flavours associated with Trappist and other Belgian yeasts, when blended with roasty, toasty flavours of British brown, chocolate, and black malts is a most enjoyable combination. I'm honestly surprised this isn't a style already (maybe it is, I've never been to Belgium, and only have the BJCP guidelines to go by). I'm working through a keg now of a brown porter fermented with Wyeast 3787 (Trappist high gravity), fermented at 70F. It has a pronounced chocolate/banana aroma, like a liquid chocolate fondue. My next adventure will be a robust porter fermented with Wyeast 3522 (Ardennes). Staking claim to new stylistic ground in Merrickville, Ontario, Drew Avis Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:31:17 -0600 From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: GFCI Where can I get a 240 volt GFCI at a reasonable price? I have searched the Grainger catalog and can not find one there. Does anyone have a good source? I am convinced now how desirable a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) would be in my electric brewery. Thanks to all for the discussion and excellent descriptions of the theory and operation. Well done gang. Also thanks to the several respondents to my question about heat transfer and velocities. It appears that my a/c mechanic had delusions of grandeur. Happy brewing all.. Ron La Borde Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsuhsc.edu http://hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:51:02 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: Jolly Rancher Adjuncts Bob says: "I was having a sour apple Jolly Rancher this weekend, and a light bulb flashed over my head. Would this make a different adjunct or what?" "Or what", definitely "or what!". I support my claims by the following highly scientific argument: "Ewwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!" YOMV... now a sour CHERRY Jolly Rancher on the other hand...... no, no, it's still "Ewwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!" What would it be? Some strange spurious-pseudo lambic, a splambic perhaps? cheers, Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant." Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:48:43 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: a few things Just got off the phone with Jeff Renner. I was virtually tied to the center of the HB universe and felt a wave of peace flow over me. Then I hung up and got yelled at by another faculty member...back to reality. A snip from yesterday's Digest... "Q: Did you do a starch test on just the Laaglander DME, without crushed grain present? I suspect you may find no starch. If this is the case, then the Laaglanders high FG is due to dextrins, not starches." Careful here. Both dextrins and starches are oligosaccharides, and dextrins are formed by the breakdown (chemical or enzymatic hydrolysis) of starch. Unless we're talking about a beta-limit dextrin the high FG could be due to both starch and dextrins. Even some medium molecular weight dextrins will show up positive for iodine test. Someone, somewhere asked about how I store yeast sludge. The answer is, I dump it directly from the bottom of the secondary fermenter. Yes, you might select a more powdery strain, and no, it's not perfect. But I brew an average of once a month so I don't reuse the strains more than twice before dumping (I get bored with the same genre of beer easily). Stearnes gave a modified view of what I do, but I do have to question (1) no starter when you "revive" the yeast, and (2) the comment not to worry about sanitization. I'm definitely not the most anal person on this list about sanitizing stuff. No laminar flow hoods and acrylic boxes for yeast plating, etc. But the absolute *best* way to improve your odds of creating 5 gallons of undrinkable beer is to follow these two suggestions every time. I make a starter to ensure it passes the "smell test" and that I didn't have a nice contamination issue in the first beer. If it smells good it goes in the beer. If it smells off in any way I toss it and get a new culture. Related to #1, if you take care (no herculean effort necessary) to sanitize the neck of your carboy as well as the container, lid, screw-top of the vessel you're storing the yeast in, the odds of having a contaminated yeast sludge is much lower. I use a spray bottle full of Star-San (NAYYY) on the neck (inside and out) of the carboy and my canning jars/lids, etc. I'm willing to wait for two minutes of contact time to improve my chances. Lastly (damn, my fingers are tiring), on the subject of yeast storage/ reculturing: a friend of mine had been reusing a slant of 1056 for multiple brews, possibly over 10. He started to see increasing attenuation of his brews, to the point that one APA got down to 1.002. He really enjoyed the beers and said he even prefered them to less-attenuated brews of the same grist, and assured me that there were no off-flavors so the beer couldn't be contaminated. This guy brews more in a year than I have cumulatively, so he knows what he's doing. Well, he had the yeast screened and it was determined that he had quite a healthy bacterial count in there as well. I believe him 100% when he said that there were no off-flavors associated with the fermentations. After all, not all bacteria make bad-tasting beer--ask the Belgians. But the point of my drivel is that the likelihood that you're as good as you think you are when it comes to keeping your beer and resultant yeast sludge clean is lower than you think. So do take whatever care you can with keeping things clean. The "force test" that Lou Bonham suggested a few years back also seems like a good QC method, although I'll be the first to admit that I've never done it. But I've always wanted to... Cheers! Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:08:52 -0800 (PST) From: Road Frog <road_frog_run at yahoo.com> Subject: rectangular vs. round, shops, lemons Nathan whatsa at MIT.EDU typed "Let me tell you why :)..." and "...allows me to mash anything from a 5 gallon low-gravity beer to a 10 gallon mid-gravity beer." and "In order for me to get a reasonable grain bed..." Let me say I had the same reservations when I went all-grain. I now think I was stuck in the 5 gallon rut. I talked to the portable brewery guy (thanks) http://www.concentric.net/~vsabbe/portabrew.htm and while I didn't buy what he said at first, I do now. It is not how little can you get in the cooler, it is how much! If I'm doing a mild I'll end up with 14 gallons of beer! If I'm making a barley wine, I'll only end up with 8 gallons. Why spend 6 hours of brewing to end up with 5 gallons of wit, if I can spend another 30 minutes and end up with 13 gallons? Don't want 13 gallons of the same thing? Send it to me! Or compare two different yeasts, bottle some with ginger, put coriander in the secondary, use cardamom on some. Now I admit that doesn't address your mild, but I'm anything but mild. Bottle half with jalapenos, or molasses, or ... Brew shops, I live 90 miles from a "local" shop. When I'm in a big city I try to drop into any shop I can find. But the vast majority of my brewing money goes to one mail order shop. One other thing: What is the sugar content of lemons? On-On, Glyn Crossno Estill Springs, TN ===== "Everytime that I look in the mirror, All these lines in my face getting clearer." Aerosmith Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:20:15 -0500 From: "Scott W. Nowicki" <nowicki at voicenet.com> Subject: RE: Braided PVC Tubing Steve -- That braided PVC tubing is supposedly FDA & USDA compliant, and is NSF listed for dairy use, but it's temperature range is listed at -5 to 180F. If you're running water through there above that range, I'm sure it's possible to leach some garden hose flavor out of the tubing. Vinyl tubing is actually listed at the same range, but possibly the taste it imparts is less noticeable? As far as cleaning this stuff, both PVC & Vinyl can be STERILIZED with ethylene oxide, but I have no idea how or if it's really worth the trouble. A good source for a wide range of specialty tubing (and the source of this information) is Cole-Parmer (www.coleparmer.com). I haven't really checked the website, but the catalog has a great chart and other info appropriate tubing selection. Of course the high-temp, food grade stuff is pretty expensive (Norprene, for example, rated to 275F), but if it's a short run it might be worth it. Have a look at the PTFE or PFA tubing. I haven't used them myself, but both are listed as chemically inert, non-toxic, virtually non-porous, and rated to 500F. I think Norprene is cheaper though. Another (probably even more expensive) option is going with professional brewers hose, available from brewing equipment suppliers like CDC Brewing (http://www.cdc-brewing.com/documents/hoses.html), among others. Lastly, the vinyl tubing from Home Depot IS in fact the same as vinyl tubing from the brew shops. Hope this helps. Scott Nowicki Holland, Pennsylvania Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:47:37 -0500 (EST) From: Alexandre Carminati <carminat at email.com> Subject: ss welding I wanto to use a cornelius keg as a Lager fermentor. My idea is to weld a 3/8 inch copper tube around it (here I just found SS tubes limited to 10 inches long pieces and they are too hard to work). I have made a cold water generator (from an old water through equip.)and I plan to recirculate this cold water through this copper tube. The question is: is possible to weld copper and SS ? I heard that is impossible due to totally different fusion temps of these elements. I was wondering about use of lead wire soldering ... Comments, please Alexandre - ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address at email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:02:17 -0500 (EST) From: Steven <stevensl at mindspring.net> Subject: My idea of a homebrewed chiller I've been kicking around the idea of a chiller myself and the thread has been quite informative. Ideally I want something thats. a) small/compact b) makes cleanup simple/quick/easy c) works d) fits into the KISS rule - keep it simple stupid! I am going to build a device layed out like this: a line comes out of a condensate pump used for a home AC unit, this might need to be stronger if need be. It will pump into a coil submerged in a ice bath, then through a second coil immersed in the wort, connected by a length of rubber line. The return will dump into the tank built into the pump. I am thinking of using Propelene Glycol and Water mix for good heat transfer with limited toxic effects. I can pump all liquid into a sealed container after use and pump liquid from the container into the pump to prime it when i start the cooling process. Less Fuss, Less Mess, Little Waste. Most of this contraption could be contained in a nice rubbermaid tub or even a el-cheapo small used cooler (igloo or some-such). any thoughts? comments? obvious problems i'm missing? Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Say NO to HTML in email and news X / \ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:58:32 -0500 From: "Andrew Moore" <abmjunk at hotmail.com> Subject: Braided PVC Tubing >From: "Steve Guernsey" <flight8341 at home.com> >Subject: Braided PVC tubing It is possible that a pipe material approved for potable water will leach some material that causes no health risk or is at levels below hazardous thresholds and yet is detectable by the human senses. It should be noted, however, there is considerable debate over whether plastic pipe (PVC,PE, etc.) causes health problems despite its approval. I suspect that running water through your pipe over a period of time will greatly diminish the off-flavor effect. I cannot, however, comment on the effect of other liquids on the piping. (And neither can the authorities approving its use for potable water, I imagine). Andrew Moore Richmond, Virginia Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:10:55 -0500 From: "Andrew Moore" <abmjunk at hotmail.com> Subject: Over-Extraction of Specialty Grains Returning to the subject of my first question, I have a curiosity follow-up regarding the amount of water used for extracting the flavors and colors from specialty grains. The consensus seems to be that there is an upper limit to the quantity of water to be used for steeping the grains, preventing "over-extraction" and the introduction of undesireable flavors. What is the mechanics of over-extraction? Does the limited amount of water (solvent) lead to an ideal saturated state for the solution? Andrew Moore Richmond, Virginia Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:12:45 -0500 From: "Charles R. Stewart" <Charles at TheStewarts.com> Subject: Re: Hard Candy as an Adjunct Someone gave me an Apple Martini this past Saturday, and I remarked about the similarity to Sour Apple Jolly Ranchers. This was made from vodka, sweet-and-sour mix, and Pucker liqour. Why don't you try a shot of Pucker in your beer? It should taste pretty close, except that the sugars won't ferment and make the brew overly sour. And you won't ruin a whole batch of perfectly good brew. Chip Stewart Charles at TheStewarts.com http://Charles.TheStewarts.com Pursuant to United States Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section 227, any and all unsolicited commercial e-mail (spam) sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee of US$500.00. The sending or forwarding of such e-mail constitutes acceptance of these terms. On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, BOB Rutkowski wrote: To the collective from St. Louis region. I was having a sour apple Jolly Rancher this weekend, and a light bulb flashed over my head. Would this make a different adjunct or what? I thought of putting some in boiling water and melting them and maybe adding to the secondary. How much? When to add? Any inputs or ideas? Has anyone ever tried this? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:38:03 -0600 From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman" at uhc.com> Subject: Re: More wide ranging questions Nils is pondering the following: >2) I'll be brewing the Honey Porter again, but using the recipe's suggetion >of Wyeast Irish Ale instead, but this will be the 1st time I'll be using wet >yeast. Effectively, what's the difference between Wyeast & Whitelabs & >which would you recommend? I thought the main difference was that the >Whitelab was immediately pitchable, & Wyeast needed to have a starter made. >But, the guy at the brewing store said that the Wyeast was immediately >pitchable too. There is no difference between the two, outside of them being different strains of yeast. One thing to remember is that if you are going to go with Wyeast, you should pay the extra $1.50 for the bigger pack (either XL smack pack or tube) if you are going to pitch directly into your wort without a starter - the smaller smack packs simply don't provide enough yeast and often result in under-attenuation, increased esters, and off-flavors. Underpitching causes MANY more problems than hot-side aeration & fermenter shape ever could. Just pitching an adequate amount of healthy yeast and keeping the fermentation temperature in the lower end of the recommended range will get you well on your way to the best beer you have ever tasted. >3) I'm also planning on dry hopping, but the original recipe doesn't call >for it. What amount of which hops (bittering or aroma) should be added? I >only have access to pelletized hops if that makes a difference. Without discussing the merits of dry-hopping a porter (of which there are few - oops), aroma hops are best for dry-hopping and pellets should be fine. You might want to boil the pellets for a few minutes, cool the pellet/water mixture, and then dump the whole mess in your fermenter (to reduce the risk of infection). Nothing to get too worried about, though, since once your wort is fermented it is a much less hospitable place for bacteria. >6) Is there a problem with pitching too much yeast in the wort? I would >like to try splitting a batch after the boil & use 2 different types of >yeast to see how they affect the beer. Should I reduce the yeast for these >2.5 gallon batches? It is very, very hard to overpitch on a homebrew scale and is very common for people to underpitch and encounter the problems mentioned above. In fact, I would still recommend that you go with the larger smack pack or tube for these smaller batches if you are going to pitch directly. It will give you an idea of how hard a wort should ferment with an adequate amount of yeast, and your beers will probably end up a little cleaner. Dan in Minnetonka Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:08:46 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: keg purging with CO2 Or you can purge once and get 100% CO2 with the following procedure: Fill the keg with water, and use CO2 to push the water out. Since there was no air in there to begin with, you end up with nothing but CO2 in the keg afterwards. =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:39:22 -0700 From: "Walker, Randy" <Walkerr at littongcs.com> Subject: RE: Braided PVC tubing >We currently have the tubing soaking in water. Has anyone else used this >type of tubing? How do you get rid of that PVC flavour? If we can't, could >anyone recommend a suitable alternative? It has to be semi-rigid however. >We would prefer to not go to a rigid pipe set up like copper. You can buy garden-type hose from a marine or RV supply store which is intended for potable water. It is usually white in color and made so that it doesn't add any plastic taste/smell to the water. I don't know how rigid it will be. Remember that a hose that is semi-rigid at low temp. may get squishy at higher temp. Although you stated that you don't want a rigid-pipe setup, PVC is also intended to carry potable water, and is cheap and easy to work with. Randy Walker Salt Lake City, UT walkerr at littongcs.com Return to table of contents
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