HOMEBREW Digest #3611 Thu 19 April 2001

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  Question For Phil And Thanks To Steve ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Haze ("pksmith_morin1")
  Haze, Part II ("pksmith_morin1")
  HBD post (george fix)
  Re:Pot Drains ("The Holders")
  False bottom (JGORMAN)
  Do not visit www.beerlink.co.uk! (David Harsh)
  Re: Sam Adam's Spring Ale Clone (Jeff Renner)
  Spruce Brews ("Charles R. Stewart")
  chill haze, happy accident ("Songbird Tulip")
  Burners and pumps (Aaron Robert Lyon)
  Sour ("ZANON, JON")
  Re: Pot Drains? (stencil)
  cheese digest (Jeremy Bergsman)
  hops comparison? (Steven)
  BJCP Exam In Philadelphia Area ("David Houseman")
  Temperature Controllers ("John Zeller")
  Re: Serving line ("patrick finerty jr.")
  Re: iodine test for yeast glycogen levels? Any inputs? ("patrick finerty jr.")
  Serving line ("John Zeller")
  Pot Drains? ("John Zeller")
  Re:  Bottling Caps ("David Houseman")
  Fermentation Chiller Kits now available (Ken Schwartz)
  PIDs and Good Home Brewing internet Club ("Doug Craftchick")
  Kegerator which frige to get (Socinian)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:26:20 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Question For Phil And Thanks To Steve Steve Alexander asks of me >Helen/Phil, >Just how do you handle that in the cockpit - oh never mind. It's not easy Steve, most of the First Officers get fed up having to admire my latest summer frock and call me Helen. About this time I usually drift out into the cabin to help the girls with the tea and coffee service. Must say though, these modern panti hose do little to hide my hairy legs! I want to thank Steve for his answer regarding pH and sparging. He put it about as well as I imagine possible and there is no doubt Steve has a vast source of information from which he can provide answers. I forgot to mention in my post that whilst my "run off" pH never seems to get above 5.9, likewise I don't let its gravity get much below 1010 (temperature adjusted). But there is a trap in this measurement. After completion of sparging I have let the mash sit there for some time whilst I am busy getting the boil under way. Half an hour later I have found the residual liquid in the mash to rise above a gravity of 1020. Have I lost some sugars that should be in the boil? Well who cares? Steve and I both seem to agree on the 6 to 1 ratio and I guess for good reason. It is safe and conservative and as neither of us are trying to thrash the last living sugars from the mash, why push it any further? The great thing about brewing is that you don't need to know the science behind every process in order to make beautiful beer. Likewise you can know the science behind it and still make beautiful beer. You can find your own level of interest. I must admit to Steve as the years go by, I find the science behind brewing more and more interesting. Perhaps he always knew I would. On a final note, the good folk of Tweed Heads spent their Easter weekend diving in the river for bottles of beer after a truck crashed and lost its load of grog. You must understand that Tweed Heads is right on the border of Queensland and so you would expect the inhabitants to have picked up some basic habits for which Queenslanders are renowned. Theft and pilferage is a way of life for Queenslanders and gets more prolific the further north you go. By the time you get to Townsville, well you are amongst the most basic of Australians with no sense of right or wrong at all. Say, isn't that where Graham Sanders lives? Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 06:45:56 -0500 From: "pksmith_morin1" <pksmith_morin1 at msn.com> Subject: Haze Frank, If you have ruled out the other sources of your haze, I would look to the polyphenol contribution of your hops (likely) or your malt. The permanent haze you describe may be due to the complexation of the polyphenols with haze-active, proline rich protein residues in your beer, very common. The more complexation, the more light scattering haze. Outside of time, fining, or filtration, there is not much you can do except say to hell with it and enjoy your great tasting pilsner. Cheers, Paul Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 07:04:10 -0500 From: "pksmith_morin1" <pksmith_morin1 at msn.com> Subject: Haze, Part II Frank, I forgot to mention a couple of other things. Polyphenol-protein induced haze is not as much a function of total amounts of protein or polyphenols which survive the boil into your beer, but rather the ratio between the two .. the haze active proteins have "enabler" sites along their chain, but only in certain numbers, which lock up with polyphenolic "ends." In order for the complexation to take place, these active sites must be available in roughly equal proportion the the polyphenolic "ends." Also, the presence of oxygen, or certain heavy metals (e.g., iron or copper) aid in the formation of haze - by bringing about the formation of proanthocyanidin dimers from monomers. The recently revisited hot-side aeration discussion impacts here - HSA may actually reduce eventual haze formation by catalyzing complexation in the kettle - and thus increasing the rate of dropout before transferring to the fermentor. The bottom line: avoid oxygen after the kettle, expecially in the presence of a good amount of malt- or hop-contributed polyphenols and proteins. Paul Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:32:27 -0400 From: george fix <gjfix at CLEMSON.EDU> Subject: HBD post Dan Diana writes: > I have been having troubles of late getting my yeast cultures to come >out of hibernation and be as active as I would like. I've been using the >pitchable products with starters. In doing some research on the subject, I >came across a comment [I've quoted it here] made in Fix's Principles of >Brewing Science, p. 98: I came up with this test in the late 1980s when I was writing the first edition of PBS. The procedure was presented at the AHA National Conference held in Estes Park, Co. (which BTW was the best homebrewing conference I have ever attended!). The references you cited were from this and a later meeting. I also discuss this test in my book with my wife ("Analysis of Brewing Techniques",pages 87-89). I have been using this procedure even since the 1980s, and find it is a sufficient test in the sense that yeast performance has meet expectations every time good color reactions has been obtained. However, before the "theologians" on this forum mount their pulpits and start denouncing my "sinful books" let me also say this was by design a simple procedure. There are better and more sophisticated methods available (see for example, ASBC's "Methods of Analysis"), which at the same time are much more involved. As a simple homebrewer I wanted something I could (and would!) use on a regular basis, and this test was designed for this application in mind. I also find staining with say methylene blue or rhodamine B to be useful, however there has been agreement with the iodine test in ~95% of the cases since I first started using these tests. In any case, I assure you that you will find that doing something is better than nothing, and I promise you that over the long haul your beers will improve if you use any of the methods, be they the simple or sophisticated ones. Cheers! George Fix ******************************************************* George J. Fix Phone: 864-656-4562 Professor and Head Department of Mathematical Sciences Clemson University 29634 ******************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 05:44:24 -0700 From: "The Holders" <zymie at charter.net> Subject: Re:Pot Drains Michael, There are weldless valve kits available. The one I am associated with and recommend is the Weld-B-Gone(TM). You can check it out at http://www.zymico.com/weld-b-gone . If you find a better product at a better price, I recommend you buy it. Wayne Holder AKA Zymie Long Beach CA http://www.zymico.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:59:00 -0400 From: JGORMAN at steelcase.com Subject: False bottom >>>I mash in a 150 qt rectangular cooler and with the plastic pipe manifold I made, and I have gotten horrible extraction / efficiency. >>> I wouldn't totally blame it on the false bottom. More than likely it's your grain bed depth and dimension of the mash tun. I used to use a rectangular picnic cooler and my efficiency was around 55%. After switching to a Gott cooler my efficiencies went into the mid 70's and sometimes I get 80%. If you insist on using the rectangular try this. Sparge a gallon at a time. In between sparges remix the grains and reset the bed. This will eliminate the sparge water "channeling" and missing sugars that are "hiding" in the corners. Jason Gorman River Dog Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:40:04 -0400 From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net> Subject: Do not visit www.beerlink.co.uk! Greetings- I'd like to nominate www-dot-beerlink-dot-co-dot-uk as the most annoying beer website. This morning I received three (3) separate e-mails informing me that there was a new beer link site and that I had "requested" the information. All messages were from "Rachel". Normally I just delete spam, but when I can slam them in their home territory, I take the opportunity. Anybody else get these? Send them a message - don't visit! Dave Harsh Bloatarian Brewing League Released from curfew in Cincinnati, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:45:58 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Sam Adam's Spring Ale Clone "Seth E. Anderson" <seanderson at wsu.edu> wrote >Used filtered water from the supermarket and added 1 Tbs. per gallon of water >for the mash and sparge water before heating. A Tbs. of what? If it's gypsum (and I can't think what else it would be) that is a whole lot of gypsum. How much for the total brew? Jeff - -- ***Please note new address*** (old one will still work) Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:52:07 -0400 From: "Charles R. Stewart" <Charles at TheStewarts.com> Subject: Spruce Brews Since we're coming up on early May, when the spruce buds start to appear, does anyone know what type of spruce is best for spruce ales? I've been drinking Alba pine ale and LOVE THE STUFF. Also, has anyone tried recipies they can recommend? Any hints for using spruce? Thanks, Chip Stewart Charles at TheStewarts.com http://Charles.TheStewarts.com Pursuant to United States Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section 227, any and all unsolicited commercial e-mail (spam) sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee of US$500.00. The sending or forwarding of such e-mail constitutes acceptance of these terms. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:27:39 -0600 From: "Songbird Tulip" <richarddulany at hotmail.com> Subject: chill haze, happy accident The recent post about hazy beer prompted me to share a clarifying technique discovered by accident. I use my lager fridge to cold-stabilize wine. I chill the wine to 27F for two weeks to cause the excess acids to crystallize and fall out of solution. I had a case of Maibock lagering in the fridge during the cold-stabilization process simply because I had no where else to keep it. There had been a noticable chill haze, but after one week at 27F, the beer cleared nicely. The yeast dropped to the bottom and formed a compact layer that isn't easily disturbed. And, no chill-haze reformed when the beer returned to normal refrigerator temperature--about 36F. Try it. Your beer won't freeze at 27F. Songbird Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:16:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Robert Lyon <lyona at umich.edu> Subject: Burners and pumps Hello fellow beer freaks, Soon, I will be switching residences and wherever I end up living will undoubtedly have less to offer in terms of brewing space than where I am presently (I have an entire kitchen devoted to brewing and I do ten gallons on a four burner gas stove with a 15 gallon brewpot covering them all). In my future, I see a burner and a pump filling the void left by my terrific brewing space. Basically, I'm wondering what sort of burner I should get to put under my 60 quart Polarware pot and what sort of pump I need to transfer wort, etc. You should be aware that the Rubbermaid coolers I use as my mash/lauter tun and hot liquor tank have spigots on the front that are virtually identical to those found on bottling buckets. I don't know if this is a significant factor. I'm looking for a burner/pump combo that would come in at or under $200 (I don't know if this would include a tank, help me out here people). Any comments would be much appreciated. Ideally, I'd like to have this ready for National Homebrew Day, but that may be pushing it. Thanks. -Aaron Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:26:59 -0500 From: "ZANON, JON" <JEZANON at SEATSINC.COM> Subject: Sour Last week I asked about my method for chilling my wort. Thank you for your help, I feel good about this now, I think?. BUT...Maybe I am getting ahead of myself as the instructions said I should wait 2 weeks after bottling to drink the beer and I tried it much sooner. What had tasted just like a great brown ale ,albeit flat, at the time of bottling now has a sour taste. I tasted it at bottling and it was great. I tasted it 2 days later and I could taste the active yeast, then at one week it was definitly sour. Did I try it too soon? Will it change again as the carbonation completes? Did I contaminate it? I thought I was being extremely anal about sanitation at bottling time. I used a one step no rinse sanitizer. My chiller coil was actually sitting in a bucket of this right up till the water and wort went in the fermenter, I had just rinsed the fermenter with the sanitizer just before this. I sanitized the bottles with it and didn't rinse them out just dumped them. Is it possible that I got too much of this left over in the beer or did I contaminate it some how. Basically I would say that anything that touched the wort had just been soaked in the solution and drained off (not dried) before it contacted the wort. Should I have rinsed it? Next time I plan to do as suggested, and boil the coil with the wort and then chill the 2 gallons of wort down before I pour it into the fermenter, so it is absolutely as close to sterile as possible instead of soaking it in the sanitizer till use. There is chlorine in the water, and the amount varies day to day, I could smell it on the day of I started the wort but I really couldn't taste it. I don't want to make whatever mistake I made last time again. I thought I did everything short of wearing scrubs, a mask, and gloves like a surgeon. Last time I made beer(in the early 80's) the only thing different that I can see is that I used bleach and or camdem tablets and so always rinsed things off before use. Also I didn't try to use a chiller I just let it cool in a watertub or a snow bank. Jonathan E. Zanon Director of Manufacturing Seats Incorporated Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:43:34 -0400 From: stencil <stencil at bcn.net> Subject: Re: Pot Drains? In Homebrew Digest #3610 (April 18, 2001) Michael wrote: > [ ... ] I think the metal in the pot is too thin to weld? >Any ideas if there is such a thing. A metal spigot with a bulhead type device >has to be made. I have tried searching the net, found lot of large heavy duty >(big) valves. Nothing that would fit on a stainless stove pot. > http://www.bobbrews.com/EquipmentMainFrame.htm The Zymico Weld-Be-Gone; works fine, lasts a long time. I have these installed on 3-, 5-, and 8-gallon aluminum stock pots. stencil sends RKBA! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:16:05 -0400 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremy at bergsman.org> Subject: cheese digest A few people have written me regarding my reference to the cheese list. The Cheese Makers' Digest is run by our beloved janitors. I can't find the page on hbd.org that explains how to sign up but parsing the unsubscribe info from the bottom of today's digest you should send the word "subscribe", without the quotes, to cheese-request@hbd.org. For a list of other useful commands, send the word "help", less the quotes, to cheese-request@hbd.org. The digest comes out almost every day but traffic probably averages <2 posts/day. Our own Jack Schmidling encouraged the formation of the list and is the lead poster. There are other cheesemaking lists too but I haven't tried those yet. Maybe Jack or somebody can start to put together a miniFAQ for cheese. - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremy at bergsman.org http://www.bergsman.org/jeremy Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:30:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven <stevensl at mindspring.net> Subject: hops comparison? Is there a good online, or failing that a book resource giving the various flavor/aroma characterists of the various hops? Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net "You want the government to handle your medical care? You want the government to take care of your retirement? Go stand in line at a post office." -- Neil Boortz Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:51:19 -0400 From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam at earthlink.net> Subject: BJCP Exam In Philadelphia Area A BJCP Exam is currently scheduled for Sunday June 3rd in Malvern, PA. Currently I have had only mild interest with no firm commitments. If we don't get firm commitments from the minimum number of examinees by the May 1st, we will be forced to postpone the exam, most likely until the Fall. Should you, or anyone you know, be interested in taking this exam, please contact me immediately. Firm commitment is a $10 deposit. We will schedule a few preparatory classes in May for the examinees who need them. David Houseman housemanfam at earthlink.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:05:22 -0700 From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com> Subject: Temperature Controllers Rick, You can use the Johnson mechanical teperature controller for either heating or cooling by making a simple change to the internal wiring. First remove the cover to access the switch inside. You will see three wires. Hot (black), neutral (white) and ground (green). The wires on the switch are connected with screws for easy removal. You will want to move the black wire to the center terminal and leave the white one as it is. The center terminal is covered with a tiny plastic plug which makes it really hard to see. Simply pull this plug out and reconnect the black wire to that terminal. Now the controller will switch the power ON with a DROP in temperature instead of OFF. That is the only difference between a heater controller and a refrigeration controller. I have two of these units that work very well for me. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:07:40 -0400 From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net> Subject: Re: Serving line hi, consider this observation: moving liquid through small bore tubing requires more force per unit volume than moving this same volume though a larger bore tube. here's what i think is going on... this is a result of 'back pressure' or whatever name you want to call it. a fraction of the liquid inside the tubing contacts the walls of the tube, depending on it's surface area to volume ratio. as the ID of the tubing decreases this fraction in contact increases. i.e. the ratio of the surface area of the column of liquid relative to its volume decreases significantly. why does this matter? because the liquid is not simply in contact with the walls of the tubing but forms transient bonds to it (hydrogen bonds, etc) which must be overcome to move this part of the liquid through the tube. if you examine flow through a perfectly smooth and straight tube (no deformations, etc) the flow is cone shaped with the fastest flow rates in the center of the column of liquid and the lowest at the liquid-tubing boundary. as the ID of the tubing decreases the absolute volume of liquid that is able to flow rapidly because it is not in contact with the tubing decreases. as a result, the pressure increases. so, there exists a length of tubing capable of generating sufficient backpressure to balance the pressure in the keg. with large ID tubing this will be one heck of a long piece of tubing but if you find something with a relatively small ID it will take much less. at least that's my understanding of things! -patrick in Toronto, just pretending to know fluid dynamics... On Tuesday 17 April, 2001, Dr. John wrote: > How long should the liquid-out line be on a keg? I've heard that if it is > long enough, you can keep the keg at pressure and serve at the same > pressure. To be honest, though, I don't quite understand how this works. It > doesn't make sense to me that the keg pressure and the serving pressure at > the end of a line of fixed width would differ. - -- "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it." Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key http://finerty.net/pjf Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:17:02 -0400 From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net> Subject: Re: iodine test for yeast glycogen levels? Any inputs? howdy, a while back Dr. Clayton Cone addressed glycogen levels in yeast on the hbd but i don't recall a specific test he mentioned. see this link: http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/3315.html#3315-1 i think this is mainly important for preparing dry yeast for storage so that they will start rapidly when added directly to wort. if you're preparing a starter culture then this shouldn't be such an issue unless you're trying to prepare healthy stocks for yourself... -patrick in Toronto On Tuesday 17 April, 2001, Dan Diana wrote: > I have been having troubles of late getting my yeast cultures to come > out of hibernation and be as active as I would like. I've been using the > pitchable products with starters. In doing some research on the subject, I > came across a comment [I've quoted it here] made in Fix's Principles of > Brewing Science, p. 98: > > "Since yeast starvation and glycogen depletion are strongly correlated, it > is important for brewers to measure the glycogen levels in yeast batches to > be pitched. This is particularly true of yeats that have been stored. There > is a simple iodine test for glycogen levels in yeast". - -- "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it." Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key http://finerty.net/pjf Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:18:23 -0700 From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com> Subject: Serving line Dr. John, The basic principle is that as the beer flows through the line it will encounter frictional resistance and therefore a pressure drop much as electricity does through a wire. This loss is significant because you will dispense the beer at very low pressures. The ideal situation is a balanced system where the keg is pressurized to provide the desired amount of carbonation plus a few more psi to overcome the line resistance and allow the beer to flow. Too much pressure and the beer will gush out and foam. Here is a link that explains it in detail. There is no ideal length for the beer line. The best choice depends on the diameter of the line, the temperature and the degree of carbonation desired: http://www.angelfire.com/ks2/beer/draft.html Here is one more tip. Use 3/16ths inch inside diameter tubing for you beer line. This will allow higher keg pressure without causing excess foaming. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:26:48 -0700 From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com> Subject: Pot Drains? Michael, Here is the item you are seeking. Also check out some of the other homebrewing goodies he has listed on this site: http://www.zymico.com/weld-b-gone This is a weldless bulkhead fitting and valve designed specifically for your purpose. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:43:44 -0400 From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Bottling Caps George, I was very interested in your move to use bottling caps without any sanitation treatment at all. I take it from this continued practice that you haven't had any bottle infections attributable to these caps. Do you only bottle for competitions from a keg or do you regularly bottle beer? Any beers (barleywines, for example) bottled for longer term storage? Have you cultured any caps to determine the degree and types of any bacteria or wild yeasts that might or might not be present? I'd really like to start doing this as well, but before I do, I'd prefer to know that the success is more than anecdotal.... Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:59:59 -0600 From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com> Subject: Fermentation Chiller Kits now available With the encouragement of members of the HBD readership, we have launched The Gadget Store with the goal of bringing to you the Fermentation Chiller Kit (and other products). See our web page for details. Visit us at http://www.gadgetstore.bigstep.com Thanks! Ken Schwartz & Klaus Messerer - -- ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:20:06 -0400 From: "Doug Craftchick" <Nicklebender at hotmail.com> Subject: PIDs and Good Home Brewing internet Club Greetings Fellow Brewers: I've noticed over the years I've been reading the HBD lot of brewers buy a PID for the rims and one for the fridge and on and on but almost no one uses PLCs. So why is this? they are common and cheap(used or new in some cases). And if any one out there has used a Modicon 984 can they recomend a good MMI? And I just wanted to plug website my friends and I created earlier this year for brewing, wine and mead. All are welcome to post and chat. So pull up a stool and join us at GHB! http://forums.delphi.com/homebrew007/start Cheers Doug Craftchick Sudbury, Canada Nicklebender at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:06:44 EDT From: Socinian at aol.com Subject: Kegerator which frige to get So, I've got my elaborate kegging system, but finding a minifrige to adapt into a kegerator has proven difficult. I don't want to use a full size frige with a freezer, because I want to use the top of the frige for serving. I want to put a draft tower onto the top of a minifrige basically. I also want to serve to kegs at once. The problem I'm having is finding a refrigerator of appropriate size. The largest model I've found is 4.3 cubic feet, the GE spacemaker model. Is 4.3 cubic feet sufficient? Is anyone familiar with this model? Is there a model that anyone's using for this purpose that's working well? Any help is really appreciated. Jeff Return to table of contents
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