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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
Re: degrees C -> degrees F (Pat Babcock)
Re: Nitro in Beer (Pat Babcock)
Re: Which Roller Mill (Pat Babcock)
When is beer at its best? ("Rick Hamel")
clubs & mash time ("elvira toews")
oC -> oF (TOLLEY Matthew)
degrees C -> degrees F ("Abby, Ellen and Alan")
RE: Munich Dunkel Malt Bill ("Dennis Lewis")
Re: Thoughts on a high FG Alt (Jeff Renner)
Re: Munich Dunkel (Jeff Renner)
Mills ("Houseman, David L")
Roller Mills ("Dan Listermann")
Doctoring beers ("Jeff Beinhaur")
re: Thoughts on a high FG Alt (RiedelD) ("Dean Fikar")
Centigrade to Farenheit ("Alan Meeker")
re: bernzomatic O2 ("Joseph Marsh")
Re: Thoughts on a high FG Alt (Roger Deschner)
C to F (AJ)
RE: All Grain Question (Chris Cooper)
Road Trip and clubs ("Jim Hagey")
Nitro in beer (Dave Burley)
Re: All Grain Questions, Clubs ("Doug Hurst")
Grain Mills ("Doug Hurst")
*
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Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:38:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: degrees C -> degrees F
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
Darrell Leavitt quotes kflowers at aws.com ( AWS WeatherMania eNews April 23,
2001)...
> But our meteorologists here at AWS have discovered an easier way!
> To easily compute a fairly accurate temperature in Fahrenheit, follow
> these simple, easy-to-remember steps:
> 1. Double the temperature
> 2. Subtract the first digit of that number3. Add 32
>
> For example:
> T = 25 degrees Celsius, what is it in Fahrenheit?
> 1. 25 + 25 = 50
> 2. 50 - 5 = 45
> 3. 45 + 32 = 77 degrees Fahrenheit
> Let's see if it worked using the actual mathematical equation which is:
> F = 9/5 degrees Celcius + 32 degrees Fahrenheit = 9/5(25) + 32
> F = 45 + 32F = 77It worked!
This is well and good for estimating temperatures in the interval
-50C < T < 50C, but is inaccurate for any temperature not ending in "0"
or "5", and useless for any temperature outside of that interval - useless
for temperatures pertinent to mashing, for instance.
For instance, 72C <> 144 - 1 + 32 = 175'F
This is easily fixed, though, by correcting the original shortcut as
follows:
1) Take the number in Celsius and double it
2) Divide the doubled temperature by 10
3) Subtract the result from the doubled temperature
4) Add 32
<imbed_tongue>That'll you get pretty durned close...</imbed_tongue>
ie:
The improved shortcut gives
72C = 72*2-(72*2)/10+32
= 144 - 14.4 + 32
= 161.6F
compared to the traditional equation
72C = 9/5 * 72 + 32
= 129.6 + 32
= 161.6F
There's a non-miraculous reason why this works. Representing this
"shortcut" algebraically:
F = 2C-1/10(2C)+32
Using the associative and distributive properties:
F = 2C(1-1/10)+32
= 2C(9/10)+32
And, finally, simplifying:
F = C(9/5)+32
And that should look very familiar...
Got math?
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 07:30:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: Nitro in Beer
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
Good ol' Drew Beechum writes...
> So as my birthday gift to myself, I bought a beer gas setup and a
> stout faucet. Of course it never occured to me that I dunno how to
> actually "nitrogenate." I've got a porter that could be good on
> nitro. Any help from my fellow gadget heads as to what to do with a
> completely unconditioned beer to a fully treated nitro beer?
Sure!
Step 1) Carbonate beer as you normally do, using plain old CO2 or natural
conditioning. Carbonating with beer mix gas will only reduce the
percentage of CO2 in the mix because N2 will not significantly dissolve in
your beer.
Step 2) Attach stout faucet and beer mix gas to keg and dispense.
You see, you're not "nitrogenating" beer; you're dispensing it at higher
than carbonation pressure using a gas that will not increase the
carbonation level ("fizziness") in the beer.
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 07:27:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: Which Roller Mill
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
"John Lovett" <john.lovett at amcor.com.au> writes...
> I am thinking of buying a roller mill. It would seem to come down to a
> choice between the Listermann and Valley mills. Has anyone experience of
> either of these and the pros and cons of each? I'm just trying to get some
> recommendations.
Do they still even make the Valley Mill? I thought they had gone out of
business a few years back. If so, that would significantly narrow the
field for me: hard to get support from a dead company.
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:22:32 -0400
From: "Rick Hamel" <hamelrick at hotmail.com>
Subject: When is beer at its best?
I typically start drinking my beers about 3 weeks after the brew date. I
use kegs and carbonate artificially.
My beers usually test best when there are only a few glasses left.
I would like to let my beer condition longer so my beer has more time to
mature.
Does anyone know:
How long do the commercial breweries condition their beer in secondary? How
long once carbonated? Cold conditioning?
What about brew pubs? How long is it between the time they brew the batch
and start serving it to the public?
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Rick
Boston MA
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:23:27 -0500
From: "elvira toews" <etoews1 at home.com>
Subject: clubs & mash time
As a recent joiner to a brew club, my only disappointment has been the
realization that there is no way to be brutally honest and kind at the same
time. By the way, Brian can also make good enough beer that at our last
meeting I snuck out with the rest of the bottle so I wouldn't have to share
with others.
I've only brought one very successful brew to a meeting so far (I think?!).
I do recognize flavours of concern in others' brews yet haven't heard any
more than "nice beer" from people I'm sure can detect faults. Maybe it's
because we're Canadian.
My dream brew club is the GABF without prizes - no scores, just blind
tastings by master judges/brewers dedicated to improving MY beer. Did I
just volunteer myself as organizer?
As far as time/temperature relations, I tried replacing overnight mashing
(which I've done for about four years) with 30-60 minute mashes. The
efficiency and FG show no difference, but I've lost all control of flavour
balance. The take-home message would be to choose a mash time in the 30
minute to 12 hour range that matches your lifestyle, a mash stiffness that
fits your lautering system, a water treatment that matches your water, and
never, ever change. The control is then accomplished entirely through the
mash-in temperature.
my $0.03 worth ($0.02 US)
Sean Richens
srichens at sprint.ca
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:26:27 +1000
From: TOLLEY Matthew <matthew.tolley at atsic.gov.au>
Subject: oC -> oF
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
>But our meteorologists here at AWS have discovered an easier way!
>To easily compute a fairly accurate temperature in Fahrenheit, follow these
>simple, easy-to-remember steps:
>1. Double the temperature
>2. Subtract the first digit of that number3. Add 32
I just go 'double it, take 10%, add 32'. Works a treat (never tried it with
fractions of a oC, though)
For example, using the meteorologist's method with 29oC (84.2oF)
29 x 2 = 58 - 5 = 53 + 32 = 85oC - 0.8oF too much
Double, take 10%, add 32:
29 x 2 = 58 - 5.8 = 52.2 + 32 = 84.2 - spot on.
Just get yourself a GST/VAT and you'll be adding and subtracting 10% in your
head in no time :)
Cheers
...Matt...
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:40:17 -0300
From: "Abby, Ellen and Alan" <elal at pei.sympatico.ca>
Subject: degrees C -> degrees F
Having been partially metricized in the Canadian school system of the
70's, I'll give you my real life understanding of metric.
- about -40 is the same in both F and C. Good facts for northern
Ontario February conversations with the guy you called to charge the
dead battery in your car and not much else.
- thin ice on puddles, about 0 C so that must be 32 F. Why would
anyone pick 32 as a starting point?
- 10 C is about 50 F...trouble is I can't really recall what 50 F is any
more...
- 20 C is the coldest shorts weather or the middle of summer here in the
Maritimes.
- 30 C is about 80 F...[see comments on 50 F]
So I guess if you really want to know, conversion formula might be in
order.
1 degree C = 1.6 degree F
1 kilometer = 0.6 miles
1 metre = 39 inches
1 kilogram = 2.2 pounds so 2kg extract goes in each batch of brew as the
basic fermentable.
Should anyone require further assistance in the Canadian school system's
French standards I am about as useful in theat field as well...ou est la
biere?...
Alan in PEI
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:27:06 -0400
From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at lewisdevelopment.com>
Subject: RE: Munich Dunkel Malt Bill
Eric asked about his Munich Dunkel recipe to which LJ Vitt responds-
> Eric, I suggest skipping the roasted barley. 1) a german brewer would not use
> UNMALTED barley. 2) I believe Munich brewers would not add a roasted malt to
> make this beer dark. They use(d) munich malt and decoctions to get the dark
I made a Dunkel a few months ago and found a tremendous dearth of info regarding
the style while trying to research some pointers online. I'm also surprised that
the AHA Style series doesn't include a book on Munchner Dunkel, as it is a
classic beer style in every respect. I hereby volunteer myself to write this
book, including whatever trips to Munich that it will take. Seriously.
Anyway, I tried a grain bill of 100% Weissheimer Munich Malt (which converts
nicely, I might add) for an 11 gallon batch. I did a complete step mash
(40-50-60-70-77 C)with a single decoction between 60-70. As I was recirculating
in the lauter, I noticed in my 5/8" run-off tube that the color was a bright
orange instead of a ruddy deep brown.
The numbers using deg L and a linear scale say that 20 lbs * 8 deg L = 160 / 11
gal should be about 15 deg L, or a shade lighter than Mich Dark. This stuff was
looking like Bass Ale and I wasn't even sparging yet. I crushed 2 oz. of black
malt and tossed it on top of the grainbed in the lauter and let it recirc for an
extra 10 min. (Supposedly adding .125 lb * 600 = 75 / 11 gal = ~7 extra deg L)
The end result is a great brew, appropriately colored, but I can detect a very
faint coffee-ish burnt flavor. May be my imagination, since I know how the
brewing session went. My wife tells me I'm overthinking it and I suspect she's
right.
If you want a truly dark Dunkel, I don't think you'll get it with just plain
Munich malt. I'd add what the Deutsche call 'Farbemalz' or a pinch of 120L
crystal. Also, your 20 lbs of malt seems a bit heavy for your OG of 1051. At 30
ppg, you'll need more like 18.5 lbs. I get about 32 ppg so my bill was more like
17.5 lbs. 20 lbs of malt would yield between 1054 and 1058.
Just my zwei pfennig....
Dennis Lewis
In wine there is wisdom. In beer there is strenghth.
In water there is bacteria. --German Proverb
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:44:55 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on a high FG Alt
Dave Riedel <RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca> of Victoria, Can. wrote
>Last night I racked a batch of Alt to a corny keg and took an SG
>reading along the way. To my unhappy surprise, I've got a final
>gravity of about 1.016 - for an OG of 1.047, this is really high.
>
>Specifics:
> 4.1 kg DWC Munich
> 75g DWC Cara-Munich
> 500g DWC Aromatic
>
> Single infusion at 154F for ~90min.
I think it's that last line, along with the lower fermentability of
Munich and Cara-Munich. I think a mash of 148F would give better
attenuation. Dornbusch recommends the same 154F that you used in his
book "Alt," but Warner suggests 145F for Koelsch if you are using a
single step mash for a well attenuated, dry beer. While Alt is not
as dry as Koelschbier, I think the Munich and Cara-Munich will keep
it from being too dry. I think good attenuation is important in the
style. I have found well attenuated Dunkels and Viennas retain their
rich maltiness due to the Munich or Vienna malt.
Jeff
- --
***Please note new address*** (old one will still work)
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:51:54 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Munich Dunkel
LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com> advises "Murray, Eric" <emurray at sud-chemieinc.com>
>Eric, I suggest skipping the roasted barley. 1) a german brewer would not use
>UNMALTED barley. 2) I believe Munich brewers would not add a roasted malt to
>make this beer dark. They use(d) munich malt and decoctions to get the dark
>color. You might hear comments like "you can't mash 100% munich". That is
>probably true for American made munich. Are you using European produced munich
>malt? I would suggest any of these brands: Dorst, Weissheimer, Weyermanns,
>DeWolf Coysns.
I agree. I have had good luck with unbittered chocolate malt in my
latest Dunkel. In the past I have had Dunkels with high levels of
Munich suddenly crash in the keg and deteriorate into wet cardboard
flavor of oxidation. This is the only style it has ever happened to
me,, and it happened twice. I think, as I've posted before, that a
small amount of darker malt acts as an electron (oxydizer)
interceptor and holder.
I see no reason that US Munich, at least two row such as Briess',
could not convert itself at 100% and produce a good product.
However, I've always used German Munich and Vienna, often at close to
100%.
Jeff
- --
***Please note new address*** (old one will still work)
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:02:00 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Mills
With the current thread on mills I will offer one piece of advice on
automating them. Most of the mills available to us have a hand crank and
can be automated by hooking up some sort of motor. Most people suggest an
electric drill. I did that and it went much faster and easier than by hand.
But the quality of the beers suffered. In a quest to find out what was
happening I stumbled across the fine print (when all else fails, read the
directions), that the mill I had suggested around 300 RPM as a good top
speed. So if your electric drill is a variable speed number, slow it down
to that range. Turns out my mill, and I suspect most, will end up tearing
the husks rather than just crushing them if you are trying to run the mill
too fast. Oh, it gets the job done quicker but not nearly as good a crush,
IMO. This month's copy of Zymurgy has an article on motorizing mills that's
very good. I found a motor that was about 1700 RPM and with the proper
sheaves and belt slowed this down to about 350 RPM; this also increased the
torque to the mill. I'll also second Dave Burley's suggestion of milling
twice, once open a little wider then somewhat closer gap. This produces an
excellent crush.
David Houseman
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:23:31 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Roller Mills
"Rick Hamel" <hamelrick at hotmail.com> Writes:
<The Phil Mill uses a 2 litre bottle as a hopper. Because of the small
opening at the bottom and the small rollers it takes forever and a lot of
effort to crush 10 pounds of malt.>
There are some misunderstandings here. The opening of the pop bottle hopper
can pass far more malt than the mill can crush in a given time. By hand the
Philmill One can crush a pound a minute. Ten minutes for ten pounds isn't
too long. With a inexpensive adapter and a 1/2" electric drill, the
Philmill can crush 3 pounds per minute. ( The Philmill Two can do about
tripple these thruputs)
<Also because it clamps on the edge of a table you can't really put a bucket
directly under it because then you can't turn the handle. The bucket has to
be a foot under. The dust produced gets all over the place.>
Hanging another cut off pop bottle from the adjustment screw functions as a
very nice funnel which greatly controls dust.
<The phil mill just uses a screw to adjust the roller so have no way of
reproducing the same setting unless you never touch it.>
The Philmill One's adjustment thumb screw has a mark on one of its wings.
You can simply record its location in terms of a clock face. Any full turns
out of adjustment will be easily obvious by visual inspection. The grist
would be almost intack or floury. A simple full turn one way or the other
will get you back to where you were. ( The Philmil Two's adjustment knob is
a single lever )
Another point is that mills produce grist, not gaps. The grist needs to be
inspected every time the mill is used even with the same malt since malt can
change from time to time and over time. I don't adjust the gap of a mill, I
adjust the grist and I change the gap to do this. I adjust the mill so that
almost all the corns are crushed. The change from passing a lot of whole
corns to crushing almost all but the most underdeveloped is fairly obvious.
Dan Listermann
Check out our new E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com
Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby!
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:29:28 -0400
From: "Jeff Beinhaur" <beinhaur at email.msn.com>
Subject: Doctoring beers
Talking about all of these clubs got me thinking. I had volunteered a few
months ago to make a presentation at an upcoming meeting on off flavors in
beer for our local club, CRAZY (Carlisle Regional Area Zymurgists). In
searching the archives as well as a little experience of my own have come up
with the following. These all would be added to some mega swill.
Diacetyl - use imitation butter flavor
DMS - use the juice from a can of corn or just use Rolling Rock
Phenolic - us throat lozengers with Phenol
Skunked - leave in the sun for a few hours
I'd appreciate other suggestions or point me to other areas of the archives
that I may have missed. Thanks...
Jeff Beinhaur, Camp Hill, PA
Home of the Yellow Breeches Brewery (and the trout are hitting
hard....yeeeehawwww)
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:29:00 -0700
From: "Dean Fikar" <dfikar at flash.net>
Subject: re: Thoughts on a high FG Alt (RiedelD)
>Thoughts on a high FG Alt (RiedelD)
>
>Last night I racked a batch of Alt to a corny keg and took an SG
>reading along the way. To my unhappy surprise, I've got a final
>gravity of about 1.016 - for an OG of 1.047, this is really high.
>
>Specifics:
>4.1 kg DWC Munich
>75g DWC Cara-Munich
>500g DWC Aromatic
>
>Single infusion at 154F for ~90min. 90 min boil with a
>huge pile (155g) of Spalt Select (because the AA was only 2.3%).
>Pitched slurry from 3.5L starter: Wyeast 2565 (Koelsch).
>*No oxygen (forgot to get cylinder); shook ~4L in 13L carboy with
>yeast slurry and shook final full carboy - probably not great
>aeration.
>Fermented the batch at 64-65F.
>Discovered (about 24hrs in) that krausen had blow through the
>airlock - switched to blow-off.
>Vigorous ferment continued for at least 2 more days.
>
>So, I've got a beer that's underattenuated. Oddly enough, it doesn't
>seem to taste sweet. In fact, I got out a different hydrometer to
>double-check
>the FG because it didn't *taste* like 16 pts. I know that when I moved to
>aerating with O2 my FGs went down (as a general rule), so I'm fairly
certain
>that lack of O2 caused the premature finish. However, is it possible that
>I blew a sizeable portion of my working yeast out the blow-off tube? This
>2565 really forms a big, yeast-rich, krausen. In other words, could I lose
>enough yeast in mid-ferment to affect the FG?
>
Dave,
Your grain bill is very similar to my standard Dusseldorf alt recipe. Yeah,
yours is a little underattenuated but I wouldn't worry about it too much if
it tastes okay. I bitter mine up so much that a little residual sweetness
from the malt is welcome. I don't like my alts to be dry and I rarely get
more than 71-72% AA with my recipe. I would suggest that you use a lower
temp sacc. rest next time. I usually do mine at 148-149F. This seems to be
necessary for me when using a high % of munich malt.
It has been my experience that a vigorous fermentation such as you describe
usually leads to a very nice beer if appropriate fermentation temps are
maintained. I have had tons of yeast blown off before and have never seen a
detrimental effect on attenuation. I don't know if you under oxygenated
your wort but with a good pitching rate and such a vigorous fermentation I
doubt that you hurt yourself much in that regard. Try a lower temp sacc.
rest next time.
- ---------------------------------------------
Dean Fikar - Ft. Worth, TX (dfikar at flash.net)
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:31:38 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Centigrade to Farenheit
>To convert Celsius (C) to Fahrenheit (F), use:
>F = 9/5 C + 32
>But our meteorologists here at AWS have discovered an easier way!
>To easily compute a fairly accurate temperature in Fahrenheit, follow these
>simple, easy-to-remember steps:
>1. Double the temperature
>2. Subtract the first digit of that number3. Add 32"
So..... 100 deg Celsius = 32 degrees Fahrenheit? Cool.
-Alan
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:47:53 -0500
From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com>
Subject: re: bernzomatic O2
The little O2 cylinders are left hand thread. All O2 cylinders are threaded
differently from say nitrogen, exposive gases because of the potential for
fire/explosion. I'd say they're all left hand threads but as soon as I do
someone will find an exception.
A friend of mine uses O2 and he only uses bursts of a few seconds three of
four times.
It looks to me like the major expence in going to bottled O2 is the
stainless diffusion stone. I'm always looking for a cheaper way to do things
so if you find a cheap O2 gas bottle valve let me know. I've been looking
for weeks.
And that's no teatwash,
Joe
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:10:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Roger Deschner <rogerd at uic.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on a high FG Alt
Your observation of malty but not sweet means you are on the right
track. That is one of the hallmarks of a good Altbier.
You probably have too much, rather than too little, yeast; once you have
enough of a krausen to force you to switch to a blow-off, you have
plenty of yeast and then some. Munich malt just won't ferment that
completely. OK, now lager it, by lowering the temperature gradually to
about 45F, by about 2F per day. Rack to a secondary carboy for lagering,
where it will continue to attenuate as long as you don't shock the yeast
by sudden chilling.
Decoction is brave, because it is such a mess to clean up, but what is
more important is to use the classic German 3-step mash schedule,
whether by infusion or decoction.
Roger Deschner University of Illinois at Chicago rogerd at uic.edu
============ "Beer is the reason we get up each afternoon." ============
================ -- McNeill's Brewery, Brattleboro, VT =================
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:10:23 -0400
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: C to F
The suggested formula is
F = 2*C - int(2*C/10) + 32
Modifying this sligthly to
F = 2*C - (2*C/10) + 32 = (20*C - 2*C)/10 + 32 = 18*C/10 + 32 = 9*C/5 +
32
gives the exact answer. So a little mod is in order for the anal among
us:
1. Double the degrees C
2. Subtract a 10th of this from the doubled C
3. Add 32.
Example: 21 C (what they set the thermostat to in your hotel room)
42 - 4.2 + 32 = 42 - 4 + 32 - 0.2 = 38 + 32 - 0.2 = 70 - 0.2 = 69.8
By putting the subtraction of the fractional part at the end you can get
the approximate answer sooner and then refine it only if you want to.
I like it. How the hell will I ever remember it?
A.J.
- --
A.J. deLange
CT Project Manager
Zeta Associates
10302 Eaton Place
Fairfax, VA 22030
(703) 359 8696
855 0905
ajdel at mindspring.com
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Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:37:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject: RE: All Grain Question
Greetings All! Steve asks about the effects of the boil in all grain brewing.
The effects of the boil (sometimes referred to as the kettle reactions)
may be long debated. Their discussion may take you down many long and
curious paths. The simple matter is that it is in the kettle that a beer's
flavor, mouth feel, and character are initially determined. I don't mean to
mize the effects of the grain bill, mash regime, hop selection, yeast variety,
fermentation temperature or conditioning but the kettle is instrumental in
bringing together the individual componets and making BEER.
Nowhere else is the process so elemental, the combination of the fruits of
the earth, water and fire produce the sweet wort. I am often amazed at the
sight of the yeast working in the carboy and the working of the mash inside
my insulated cooler is truly "magical" but the sights, sounds, and smell of
the boil are truly phenomenal!
Kettle reactions are responsible for the extraction of the bitters in the
hops. Hop bitters and flavor compounds may be extracted in a "hop tea" but
the pH of the wort and the length of boil greatly effect the overall level
of bittering in your brew. You may buy condesensed "hop oil" in a brew shop
and add it to a brew to increase the bitters but it will always seem a bit
"doctor'd".
Longer boils carmelize some of the sugars which add color and flavor to the
brew. The vigor of the boil may have effects on other aspects of the brew
such as head retention and stability of the brew.
It is also my opinion that the kettle is responsible for the "marrying" of
the flavor profiles of the various grains and hops in the recipe.
To me the real point of homebrewing is in the experimentation with the
fundamental elements of beer, the methods and of course the comradeship of
fellow brewers both virtual and first-hand, oh yeah, and the drinking of
a beer you made yourself with friends and family.
Many of us discuss ways to shorten the brew day but I dare to say that most
"all-grain" brewers look forward to the actual boil-time. I us it to enjoy
a previous batch (I am a firm believer that you should show a wort what you
expect of it by example ! I often tip a few drops into the boil just to give
it a hint of the greatness to come and appease the BEER-GODS!). The aroma
form the kettle usually brings out a neighbor or two for some good hearted
talk and a mug or two.
My suggestion is to go ahead and try all-grain now, there are many ways to
ease into it (in terms of equipment and cost). My first batches were with a
grain bag in a kettle, I simply mashed-in to my strike temperature and place
the kettle in a preheated oven. This held the temperature well. I quickly
added a drain and a simple screen to one of my two kettles and the system
worked very well until I graduated to my 7-gallon Gott-Rubermaid cooler. The
transistion to garage brewing came about step-by-step and I still brew in
the kitchen on bitterly cold winter days (when SWMBO feels sorry for me!).
Chris Cooper, Pine Haven Brewing (aka. Debbi's Kitchen)
Commerce, Michigan Member, Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild
(Approximately 25 miles from 0.0 Renerian)
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Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:27:17 -0400
From: "Jim Hagey" <hagey at attglobal.net>
Subject: Road Trip and clubs
Greetings Collective,
I am planning a road trip with my son to Northern California in a few weeks.
Strictly for pleasure. Will be flying into Oakland on a Saturday night.
Staying in San Francisco with a friend (right around the corner from the
Magnolia Brewpub) until Tuesday then we have until the following Saturday
night to explore. We are planning on driving up the PCH to Crescent City
(Redwood National Park) camping along the way. The route back to the
Oakland airport is wide open but would like to go through the Shasta area
then down the spine of the Sierra (through Truckee) on the way. Question:
location of brewpubs? Pubcrawler lists only one along the PCH, the Lost
Coast Brewery in Eureka. Are there others? The only other one along the
route that I could find is the Pizza Junction/Truckee Brewing company in
Truckee. Any knowledge of the collective is greatly appreciated.
Following the thread of homebrewing clubs: I suffer from a sometimes rather
debilitating case of social anxiety disorder and find myself quite often
paralysed in social situations. I have, however, been a member of a club
here in Kalamazoo for about five or six years now that has quite a broad
demographic (accross the male only spectrum). Sometimes being in the club
is the greatest; sometimes it really sucks. I have met a number of really
talented brewers in it and some really opinionated ones that really have no
concept of how grain, water, hops and yeast work together. I have to admit
that my own beer has improved because of the contacts that I have made while
a member. It has given me the chance to taste a wide variety of beers that
I otherwise would not have been able to enjoy. It has also given me the
chance to experience a rainbow of sensory defects that were previously just
words and concepts. I have found that, by in large, the community to be
outgoing and helpful in the extreme. If I run up against a problem they
have always been there to help analyze and find remedy for it. They have
also made the mistake of electing me weiss president this year which just
goes to show that even a socially dysfunctional, irritating person who spoke
no more than two or three words at a meeting for over three years can be
accepted in this community.
Jim
Beer and Loafing in Kalamazoo
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Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:34:30 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Nitro in beer
Brewsters:
Drew suddenly finds himself with too much equipment for the present. He
asks how to go from a fully uncarbonated beer to a beer which makes use of
his new stout spigot.
First, Drew, you ain't the first. Nor are you the first to, perhaps, be
confused about what's happening. Remember nitrogen is not very soluble in
beer ( ten times less than CO2) so if you use a nitrogen/CO2 to pressuize
your beer or to push your beer you still won't be using the nitrogen/CO2
mix to form a nice compact head, despite what you read here sometimes.
A nitrogen/CO2 mix which you can buy as a standard mix from your gas
supplier is used in cellars with a long run in which too high a pressure of
CO2 needed to push the beer would result in over carbonation. Using a
nitrogen in the mix of gases allows the partial pressure of the CO2 to be
correct ( maybe 7 psi or so) and yet apply maybe 15 psi of total pressure
to push the beer. But the nitrogen's only function is to push on the keg
and it never gets into the beer to any appreciable extent and therefore
never gets into the foam.
What you want to get a nice head is a spigot which mixes nitrogen into the
<foam> of the beer ( a violent mixing called "breakout" in which nitrogen
is substituted for CO2 or mixes with CO2 in the bubble and the foam is
micronized) . Because nitrogen is not very soluble in beer, once you get
nitrogen into the foam bubbles it will stay, unlike CO2 which dissolves in
the beer in the foam bubble wall and passes out. So what you need is a
nitrogen ( or a nitrogen/CO2 mix if that is more convenient) tank at your
dispense. Talk to your gas supplier and he will provide the correct
connections.
So the answer is, Carbonate your beer as you normally do, push it out with
CO2 or a N2/CO2 mix and use plain nitrogen or a N2/CO2 at your spigot to
get that long lasting head you desire.
Keep on Brewin'
Dave Burley
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Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 12:59:31 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: All Grain Questions, Clubs
Steven St Laurent asks:
"I assume the boil of the wort in all grain is to accomplish several
things... sanitize the wort, extract the bittering of the hops and to
reduce the volume of the liquid. Is this indeed the case? Making a hop
tea would tend to reduce the time needed in the boil + using less
water/more grain in the sparge would also accomplish the same thing?"
You are correct but there's more. The Hot Break, when the beer begins
to boil, and the Cold Break, when the wort is cooled, both serve to
precipitate and coagulate proteins. The Breaks (especially the cold
break) help to eliminate chill haze in the finished beer. You need a
good rolling boil for an effective hot break and a quick cooling for the
cold break.
As for extracting bitterness, I wonder if the acidity of wort has
anything to due with bitterness extraction. Anyone? Anyone?
- -------
As for clubs... I had a feeling my post would draw some discussion.
Drew Beechum and John Zeller made good points about the usefulness of
competitions for receiving a non-biased, honest evaluation of beer
regardless of winning or losing. Dave Burley raises a very interesting
argument about commercial beers being used as a bench mark for judging.
I suppose it depends upon whether the brewer was trying to emulate a
commercial beer or make something different/better. I would think that
there's a lot of room for original styles. How should those be judged?
Maybe I'll try out the naked brewing club in Florida that was featured
in the latest Zymurgy...
Doug Hurst (putting out the flames)
Chicago, IL
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Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:06:27 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Grain Mills
Oh yeah, I use a Jack Schmiddling adjustable malt mill. I chose it
because it included a hopper, full size (length) rollers, the cost was
less than other similar models and JSP is local. I have had nothing but
success with it. It's easy to remove the handle and attach a drill,
which I did for the first time recently. I'll never use the handle
again.
Apply standard non-affiliation disclaimer,
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
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