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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
MCAB 3rd Place Vienna (Bob)
Lima, OH Homebrew Club (Scott Danner)
Screensavers and Games (Alan Prezant)
MCAB3 BOS Witbier ("phil sides jr")
German Micro woes ("Louis K. Bonham")
Barley Wine ("Mark Tumarkin")
Jeff's Barleywine (Ken Schwartz)
Help for German Micro ("Ray Daniels")
Micro problem (Dave Burley)
RE: Help a German micro ("Houseman, David L")
re: Whirlfloc ("Kensler, Paul")
Thermoelectric or Peltier Cooling Information ("Pete Calinski")
Hemp Plugs (haafbrau1)
Residual Chlorox = Bitter? ("Steven Parfitt")
OZ digest, Pyrex and all-grain gadgets ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
Re: Corn Tortillas (Jeff Renner)
RE: German Micro and Beer Lines ("Dennis Lewis")
re: Idophor killed my carbonation (Scott Perfect)
Purging Hops ("Hill, Steve")
All-Grain Stout Recipe ("Hedglin, Nils A")
Aussie-ish Beer Scene (Aaron Robert Lyon)
WARNING - contains bad accents, references to genitals, Iowa (TOLLEY Matthew)
RE: Selling on the Internet, apple cider ("Don and Sarah Cole")
Idophor killed my Carb... (Phil Wilcox)
Wild rice analysis ("elvira toews")
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Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 19:42:54 -0700
From: Bob <2bobw at home.com>
Subject: MCAB 3rd Place Vienna
Here is the recipe for my Third place Vienna in MCAB 3. I'm also posting
the recipe for the beer that qualified for MCAB. It was a little
different, I liked it better.
Qualifier
Vienna
5 Gallons
8 lbs Weyermann Vienna
3 lbs Weyermann Pils
3.5 lbs Weyermann Munich Light
.5 lb Aromatic
.5 lb Caravienna
1 oz Hallertauer 4% 60 mins
.75 oz Hallertauer 4% 30 mins
.5 oz Hallertauer 4% 15 mins
Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager
Mash at 150 degs for 60 mins
Mash out 165 15 mins
Batch Sparge with 2.5 gallons
Total Boil Time 75 mins
Primary 48 degs for 11 days
Diacetyl Rest 60 degs 3 days
Rack to Secondary (keg) 34 degs about 3 months.
OG 1.058 FG 1.017 27.5 IBUs
MCAB3 Entry 3rd Place
Vienna
5 gallons
8 lbs Weyermann Vienna
3 lbs Weyermann Pils
3.5 lbs Weyermann Munich Light
.5 lb Aromatic
.5 oz Santiam 6.8% 60 min Boil
.5 oz Santiam 6.8% 30 mins Boil
.6 oz Hallertauer 4.8% 15 mins Boil
Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager
Mash at 150 for 75 mins
Mash out 165 for 15 mins
Batch Sparge with 2.5 gallons
Total boil time 75 mins
Primary started at 42 degs and settled at 50 degs after 3 days Total 9
days
Diacetyl Rest 60 degs 5 days
Rack to Secondary (keg) 34 degs about 3 months.
OG 1.072 FG 1.018 IBUs 25.9
Note the OG, this was the first batch using a Cajun Cooker burner. It
was a bit less than 5 gallons in the primary. The other batch was boiled
on the kitchen stove. That may be why it was so high ( more evaporation
), I'm not sure. I added 1 gal boiled water to secondary.
=====================================================
Bob Wilcox
Alameda & Long Barn Ca.
2bobw at home.com (use this address to reply)
Draught Board Home Brew Club
http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 18:44:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Danner <yamabrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lima, OH Homebrew Club
Hello,
We are restarting a homebrew club in Lima, and would
like to invite those of you in the hombrew community
who are in the geographic region to come to our
meetings. (Everyone is welcome)
Our first meeting is the 19 May 01. We will conduct a
brewin 2 June 01 at my residence. Please feel free to
call or email (YAMABREW at aol.com)for further
information!
Happy Brewing!
David S. Danner
1922 Brookhaven Drive
Lima, Ohio 45805
Home (419) 222-4888 Work 221-9541
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 22:38:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Prezant <homebrew854 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Screensavers and Games
Check out http://www.beerstuff.com/
I just happened to find this website earlier this
week. It is well organized and contains many beer
screensavers and beer games along with many other
categories of beer and brewing-related topics.By the
way, under the beer games category, check out
Dommelsch Bier Games. I don't know if the website is
in German, Austrian, Dutch, etc. but it contains three
really good free games: Pinball, Darts and Pool with
great graphics. The programs are full-featured and
not disabled in any way. You don't need to know the
language (I obviously don't know it) to figure the
games out. I haven't had a chance to check out any of
the other games links yet.
Alan
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 02:24:53 -0400
From: "phil sides jr" <phil at yankeebrew.com>
Subject: MCAB3 BOS Witbier
>As has been done in the past, would the winners of the MCAB 3 be willing to
>post their recipe's to the digest?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Pat Humphrey
>Lake Villa, IL
Same as Paul Kensler's, straight from Promash but printed from my recipe,
not my brew session. This was my Witbier which won Best of Show:
ProMash Recipe Printout
Recipe : Porcelain
BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
- -------------------------------
19-B Belgian & French Ale, Witbier
Min OG: 1.042 Max OG: 1.055
Min IBU: 15 Max IBU: 22
Min Clr: 2 Max Clr: 4 Color in SRM, Lovibond
Recipe Specifics
- ----------------
Batch Size (GAL): 12.00 Wort Size (GAL): 12.00
Total Grain (LBS): 22.31
Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 11.94
Anticipated SRM: 4.0
Anticipated IBU: 17.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Pre-Boil Amounts
- ----------------
Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 15.48 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.037 SG 9.34 Plato
Formulas Used
- -------------
Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential
Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.
Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager
Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10
Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential
SRM
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
15.7 3.50 lbs. Pale Ale Malt - DWC Belgium 1.034 3
6.7 1.50 lbs. Weyermann Acidulated Malt Germany 1.034 2
22.4 5.00 lbs. Chariot Pilsner Great Britain 1.035
2
9.0 2.00 lbs. Briess Flaked Oats America 1.033 2
15.7 3.50 lbs. Briess Flaked Wheat America 1.034 2
13.4 3.00 lbs. White Wheat Belgium 1.040
3
13.4 3.00 lbs. Red Wheat Belgium 1.040
3
1.4 0.31 lbs. Brewer's Cut America 1.000
0
2.2 0.50 lbs. Rice Hulls America 1.000
0
Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.
Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
1.25 oz. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 14.8 90 min.
1.07 oz. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 2.3 10 min.
1.00 oz. Czech Saaz Pellet 3.60 0.0 0 min.
Extras
Amount Name Type Time
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.80 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 5 Min.(boil)
0.48 Oz Bitter Orange Peel Spice 5 Min.(boil)
Yeast
- -----
White Labs WLP400 Belgian Wit Ale
Water Profile
- -------------
Profile: Concord Tap
Profile known for: Phil's Beer :-)
Calcium(Ca): 10.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 0.7 ppm
Sodium(Na): 21.8 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 14.9 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 19.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 28.9 ppm
pH: 9.53
Mash Schedule
- -------------
Mash Type: Multi Step
Qts Water Per LBS Grain: 1.25 Total Qts: 26.88
Acid Rest Temp : 95 Time: 30
Protein Rest Temp : 122 Time: 15
Saccharification Rest Temp : 152 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 170 Time: 5
Sparge Temp : 180 Time: 40
Phil Sides, Jr.
Concord, NH
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 06:15:24 -0500
From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at hypercon.com>
Subject: German Micro woes
Sebastian writes of the potential problems he's seeing at a German micro and
wonders about how to figure out what it is.
I'd suggest trying two simple tests to start with.
(1) Take two samples (about 100ml each; they don't need to be taken
aseptically) of the beer as it is being run into the serving tank (i.e., at
the time when the beer is "tasting fine"). Cover each with foil, plastic
wrap, etc., or if you're using a closable container (screw top flask, etc.),
seal it. Set one of the samples aside (this is the control), and heat the
other one to about 60C (145F) and hold it there for about 30-60 minutes.
(Setting the sample container in a large container of water heated to this
temp works fine.) Now chill this sample to about the same temp as the other
(control) sample. Taste each one.
If the heat-treated sample tastes decidedly more "buttery" than the control,
your problem is excess alpha-acetolactate in the beer, and you need to do a
diacetyl rest to solve this problem. Yeast naturally converts acetaldehyde
and pyruvic acid into alpha-acetolactate during the ferment.
Alpha-acetolactate itself is tasteless in the concentrations encountered,
but spontaneously oxidizes (oxidative decarbolization for you purists) over
time to form diacetyl. If the yeast is still around and active, no problem:
the yeast reabsorbs the diacetyl and reduces it to butanediol, which has
almost no taste. If, however, the yeast aren't around and active, then as
the beer ages the diacetyl content will steadily increase over time. [This
is a problem I have seen with homebrews that "tasted great" before being
sent to a competition, but got dinged as having too much diacetyl when
judged . . . the heating encountered in shipping the beer to the competition
did the same thing as the force test described above.]
(2) Quick and easy test for contamination of finished beer is to
aseptically take about a 100ml sample of the beer, add about 1ml of a 0.1%
cycloheximide (a/k/a Actidione) solution, seal with foil or Parafilm, and
incubate in a warm (30-35C (86-95F)) place for two to four days. Mark this
sample as "poison" - cycloheximide is nasty stuff, and you don't wanna
forget and sip the treated sample by mistake.
The cycloheximide kills any the brewers yeast present, so if anything grows
in the sample (as indicated by cloudiness, an off smell (**don't taste** --
cycloheximide is poisonous!!), bubbles, etc.), you know you've got a wild
yeast or bacterial infection, and in a commercial setting you'll wanna send
samples of the beer off to the lab for analysis.
Louis K. Bonham
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 07:03:41 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Barley Wine
Jeff,
Don't fret - your barley wine sounds like it's doing great
>I brewed my experimental batch of barley wine yesterday. Everything went
well, and on the advice of several of you, I pitched a small starter of
Chico. By the time I left for work last night (about 8 hours later), it had
taken off quite rapidly.
Big starters are better than small starters, especially for high gravity brews
but it sounds like your b-wine is off to a good start.
>I plan on bottling this in champagne bottles with corks and wire caps in a
couple of months.
You plan on partying pretty seriously? Champagne bottles are pretty large for
barleywines, unless you always plan on opening them with other people. Try at
least some smaller 12 or 16oz bottles, many commercial b-wines are bottled in
7oz nips.
>The recipe includes Light DME, a bit of 20L Crystal, and some clover honey.
I like a bit more complexity but this sounds like a good, basic recipe -
barleywines are often just a bigger version of a pale ale recipe.
>Questions, while I'm thinking about them: What should I use to prime it when
I bottle it? Dextrose?
Prime just as you usually do, though because of the high gravity it may take a
bit more time to condition. You might want to use a bit less priming sugar as
b-wines are fine with a lower carbonation, though some are well carbed - SN
Bigfoot comes to mind.
>And will I need to rack between fermenters more than once? I'm just fretting
over the time that the beer is going to spend in the fermenter.
No, racking once will be fine. You want to leave some yeast available for the
bottle conditioning. You mention bottling several months later and fret over
the time ... probably won't take this long to finish, go by the
gravity/attenuation, not time.
Chico (Wyeast 1056) is a great yeast for American style barleywines, clean and
attenuative. It should finish out quicker than that (especially if you do a
big, healthy starter and oxygenate at the beginning). Danstar's Nottingham is
also a good yeast for American b-wines. It is very similar to 1056 but a bit
fruitier, throwing a few more esters. You may want something more estery still
for an Eng style. Both of these yeasts do well with high gravity brews, I've
even used both in meads very successfully. The meads finished dry and clean.
so Don't Worry, Be Happy, or was that RDWHAHB ... whatever, don't fret; b-wine
be fine.
Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 06:17:57 -0600
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: Jeff's Barleywine
I wouldn't worry about the "time that the beer is going to spend in the
fermenter". It shouldn't take much longer than any other brew to
ferment. You might give it a little extra bulk aging time but
considering the time it will need to spend in the bottle, it doesn't
seem to add much value to leave it in the fermenter too long.
- --
*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
See our Keg Insulator box and Brewing Paddle:
http://www.gadgetstore.bigstep.com
Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 07:45:14 -0500
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Help for German Micro
My bet would be pediococcus -- a common brewery pest which also produces
diacetyl. The production and removal of diacetyl was reviewed in an article
which recently appeared in The New Brewer. The author, Bill Pengelly,
Ph.D., is not only a qualified scientist, but also the head brewer at
Deschutes Brewery in Oregon -- a very successful regional brewery, so he
knows his stuff. In his article, he wrote, in part: "Diacetyl may also
occur as the result of microbial infection (e.g. Pediococcus,
Lactobacillus)."
While "normal" diacetyl production occurs during primary fermentation and is
reduced by the yeast, the phenomenon you describe indicates late production
of diacetyl and thus is unlikely to be coming from the yeast.
I agree that you should have the beer analyzed before accepting this
conclusion. Get the micro lab to run samples coming off of primary and then
some from the affected batches in lagering.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Ray Daniels
Editor-in-Chief
Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Phone: 773-665-1300
E-mail: ray at aob.org
Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual
magazines.
Don't Miss:
National Homebrewers Conference, Los Angeles - June 21-23
Celebrate American Beer Month in July (See www.americanbeermonth.com)
For more info see: www.beertown.org
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:49:01 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Micro problem
Brewsters:
Sebastian is trying to help a local German micro get out of a problem.
Unfiltered lager ( zwickel) is OK but when filtered picks up a
buttery/butterscotch taste over time. All other beers exhibit this
problem.
1) I suspect the zwickel may have a shorter shelf time in that it is
consumed faster? If so, it is important to compare beers of identical age.
The entire brewing train could be contaminated but the yeast in the
unfiltered zwickel may also be consuming the "diacetyl" flavor and explain
the lack of a problem 2) Take samples at several places and hold them at
room temperatures and higher and sample them over time. 3) take samples of
the beers to a local microbiological lab and identify the difference in the
species in the beers which taste off and those which don't.
Likely it is contamination, despite what the brewer and the sanitation
staff want to hear.
Keep on Brewin'
Dave Burley
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:10:49 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE: Help a German micro
"All of the beers have exhibited this flavor, including the hefe-weizen,
except for the
unfiltered pils (locally known as a zwickel). There is no difference in the
process between the pils and the zwickel up to the filtration point (takes
place after lagering)."
If all the beers are exhibiting this off-flavor except the unfiltered
zwickel, it appears to me that I'd be very suspicious of the filtering
system: hoses, plates, filters.
Dave Houseman
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:53:10 -0400
From: "Kensler, Paul" <Paul.Kensler at Cyberstar.com>
Subject: re: Whirlfloc
David Houseman asked "Is Whirlfloc available to the homebrew market? My HB
shop didn't carry this and they have since closed, so a mail order reference
would be appreciated."
David,
I got mine from Beer Beer and More Beer (www.morebeer.com
<http://www.morebeer.com> ). 10 tablets in a bag, I forget how much it was
for the bag but its pretty cheap. By the way they have a nice website, but
get the paper catalog too - its filled with even more cool stuff.
I did a web search on the product, and discovered that it is distributed by
Crosby and Baker so just about any homebrew store should be able to get it.
Not affiliated with B3, C&B or Whirlfloc, YYY.
Hope this helps,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:10:52 -0400
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Thermoelectric or Peltier Cooling Information
>From time to time, questions come up in this forum regarding Thermoelectric
or Peltier Cooling methods. The American Scientist March-April issue has an
article on the subject. The link is:
http://www.americanscientist.org/articles/01articles/nolas.html
Unfortunately they have posted only the abstract at this location. Warring,
this article gets very geeky very fast.
Some interesting tidbits:
* New idea, not really. Peltier discovered the principle the year Abraham
Lincoln attained his first political office.
* Main advantages are, no moving parts, silent, reliable, and require no
maintenance.
* Quoting from the article, "Modern thermoelectric coolers operate at
efficiencies that are less than five percent of the maximum possible value.
The best generators (using heat to generate electricity) have efficiencies
that are less than 15 percent of the theoretical ceiling. For comparison,
household refrigerators operate at about 30 percent of the thermodynamic
limit."
The article is primarily about finding substances that improve the
efficiency and are economical to produce. Not there yet
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0^45'49.1" North, 5^7'9.5" East of Ground Zero.
********************************************************************
*My goal:
* Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
* (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
********************************************************************
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:18:07 -0400
From: haafbrau1 at juno.com
Subject: Hemp Plugs
Greetings all,
I have a question about hemp plugs. Awhile back I received a lb. of hemp
plugs for brewing. I've kept them in the freezer. How much should be
used for a 5 gal. batch, and what should I expect as far as taste,
viscosity, head retention, etc...? I have a batch to make soon, and I
wanted to use the plugs. TIA, and keep on brewing.
Paul
This Space For Rent
This House For Sale
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:55:41 -0400
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Residual Chlorox = Bitter?
I recently tasted my Koslch in bottles, and it seems to be more bitter than
it is in the keg.
The Kolsch is two months old. I Counter Pressure bottled and put the keg
back in the frig. I put bottles in the frig at the same time, so they have
both been treated the same.
My procedure On botteling day is;
after supper, run tub with 8" water about (15 gallon), add 1/4c chlorox
get bottles from storage, put in tub making sure each one is full.
Put 2 gal 12.5ppm Idophor in corny keg
get Counter pressure bottler, hook up to corny keg w/ Idophor and flush
everything.
Get bottles from tub (soaked 20 min) and stack in dish rack to drain.
get keg-o-beer
disconnect corny w/ idophor(15 min soak), connect keg-o-beer, flush lines
and discard Idophor/beer mix.
Grab a bottle, fill it, grab a bottle, switch bottles, cap full one, fill
new one, get new bottle.....
I wouldn't expect there to be much chlorox ramaining in the bottles after
draining so long, but I can't help but wonder...
Most of my beers seem mroe bitter than I expect them to be. Does residual
chlorox enhance bitterness?
Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery, Near Completion.
Johnson City, TN 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=241124
"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von
Bismarck
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:18:14 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: OZ digest, Pyrex and all-grain gadgets
Jeff Greenly writes:
>PS: I encourage everyone here on HBD to click over and review the posts on
>the Oz CBD. I spent a couple of hours reading through several threads.
There
>was a lot of on-topic stuff, but there was also a lot of sniping at other
>posters, Americans, and "the egotistical members of the HBD." Interesting
>reading.
So basically, you're saying it's the same as we have here, just a bit more
on topic... ;-)
Steve Lane asks:
>Just got an Erlingmeyer flask / beaker and boiled up my starter on the
>stove. Can I put the scalding hot beaker and wort into an ice bath or will
>this shatter the beaker?
If it is Pyrex, then it was designed for this purpose as some reactions
occur only at high temps and must be cooled immediately to stop the reaction
or achieve a certain product. Some flasks have thicker walls than others
and will probably handle the stress much better. I have never had one break
on me and I've gone from boiling to ice bath with flasks, beakers, test
tubes, etc... Just don't drop 'em!
Sean Richens suggests:
>I strongly recommend an immersion chiller. 50 ft. of 3/8" copper is not
too
>much, and you can build it such that the cooling wort can be mostly
covered.
>You can build a counterflow if you start making 10 gallon batches later on.
Ditto! I rigged my two 5 gallon SS stockpots with an immersion chiller
built into the lids. Copper tubing, a few brass compression fittings, plus
some brass pipethread elbows with barb connections or ball valves and I've
got stock pots that really look like they're made for making moonshine! If
I'm feeling adventurous, I can even hook the coils in series and flash
pasteurize my sake by passing it through the tubing with boiling water in
one stockpot and an ice bath in the other. This is still in the
experimental stage though....
Glen Pannicke
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:19:35 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Corn Tortillas
"patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net> in Toronto writes
>i would suggest not using corn tortillas for beer. they definitely
>have all of the oil from the corn (the germ, i think) and these oils
>will give you major stability problems.
>
>blame Jeff Renner for imparting some of this knowledge to me this past
>weekend. Jeff, it was great to meet you and hear all about your CAP.
I had a blast, too, and really enjoyed meeting the CABA (Canadian
Amateur Brewing Association) crowd. Some great beers, and the BOS
was a terrific mild brewed by Joanne Anderson, who had four beers out
of the 13-14 in the BOS round. All of the BOS beers were very good
to excellent.
Regarding corn tortillas - I don't think oil would be the big
problem. They are made with masa harina, which is milled from corn
kernels which have been soaked in lime (calcium hydroxide), which
softens the flinty outer layer, which is removed. I think the germ
is removed at the same time, but I'm not sure.
More of a problem, I would think, would be the preservatives such as
calcium proprionate, which might inhibit fermentation.
All in all, I think I wouldn't worry about saving the little bit of
money it would cost to brew with fresh flaked or ground maize.
Jeff
- --
***Please note new address*** (old one will still work)
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:47:51 -0400
From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at lewisdevelopment.com>
Subject: RE: German Micro and Beer Lines
Sebastian Padilla enters a plea for help thusly:
> Hello, I have a question that I was hoping some of you could give me some
> feedback on. There are some off flavors being produced in some beers being
> produced, but not all, at a house brewery in Germany that I am sporadically
- --snip--
> The off flavor manifests itself as a sort of buttery or butterscotch flavor
> to my taste. I associate this with diacytel but I am open to suggestions.
>
> At first I thought that this flavor was being produced by the lack of the
> diacytel rest. But it can get so strong and often does not exhibit itself
> until weeks after being put in the serving tanks.
> To me it sounds like a classic bacteria/ wild yeast infection, which are
> producing diacytel as a by product. What do you all think is the most
> likely culprit? What happens during a diacytel rest, do the yeast scavenge
> diacytel or is it only a precursor at this point so that the diacytel does
> not manifest itself until later in the process?
>
> A company supposedly comes in and cleans the beerlines once every 2 weeks.
> The owner really does not want to hear that he has a wild beastie problem,
> so I especially want to check before I make him believe it or at least have
> the VLB lab do an analysis.
A bar that my family owns had exactly the same problem a few years ago. The coil
cleaning company (I suppose that it's called coil cleaning when most bars used
jockey boxes or something) that's licenced by the state was supposedly doing
it's job as well. What they would do is put all the taps (the part that goes on
the keg) into the same bucket of supposedly fresh cleaner/sanitizer and pump the
fluids around two lines at once from the faucet ends. (If you look up coil
cleaning pumps in the Rapids catalog, you can see the configs. The pump hoses
attach where the faucets attach.)
What this did was spread whatever was lurking in one line thru to the rest of
them. The brews would taste ok for a day or two after cleaning, then get very
buttery. Now, these lines are pretty old, like going on 20 years, so I
considered changing them, until I realized the challenge of replacing a
glycol-jacketed run that's 80' long. I decided that a good scrubbing was in
order.
We bought a line cleaning unit from Rapids that has two Sankey-type tap fittings
on it with a corny-keg type hatch for mixing chemicals. We did a two-day soak
with PBW (with disgusting results pouring forth from the taps) followed by an
hour-long soak with 50ppm iodophor. We did this every weekend for a month until
the taps no longer ran brown from the PBW.
The key to solving this problem was getting back to basics:
1. Separating the cleaning from the sanitizing
2. Increasing the soak time for both solutions. The coil cleaners would run in
and out, since they had somewhere else to be.
3. Using the solutions only one time.
I know that we as homebrewers like to reuse the PBW solution and iodophor as
much as possible, and I do too. But you need to make sure that you're not just
spreading the beasties around with the solutions.
My reasonably educated guess is the unfiltered zwickel Pils still had active
yeast in it to help reduce the diacetyl levels. As far as your Hausbraueri goes,
you didn't say what your serving tanks were (grundy-types or kegs), but I
suspect that your lines are the problem. We have not had a reoccurence since we
fired our coil cleaner and I trained our kitchen help to do the job. We now use
regular one-step draft equipment cleaner instead of the two-step process
outlined above, but we have that in our arsenal for the next time.
Dennis Lewis
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:56:50 -0700
From: Scott Perfect <perfect at marzen.llnl.gov>
Subject: re: Idophor killed my carbonation
Jeff asks: You're saying you didn't drain the bottles?
As I read the post, the bottles were drained but not rinsed.
(Bottle tree squirts up into bottle?) I don't think this
should cause zero carbonation.
For Todd:
We can only guess but I wonder if your priming solution
did not get mixed uniformly. You mention racking
"gently." Your bottling bucket may have developed a layer
of beer that contained no priming sugar. Of course, that
also means that another layer has more than enough...
At any rate, I always stir the beer with the racking cane
after racking onto the priming solution.
Scott Perfect
San Ramon, CA.
~2000 west Rennerian
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:32:58 -0400
From: "Hill, Steve" <Steve.Hill at apfs.com>
Subject: Purging Hops
When storing hops in an air-tight container, is it better to purge with
nitrogen or co2? Does it really matter which one is used?
Steven Hill
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:34:50 -0700
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: All-Grain Stout Recipe
Hi,
My very 1st batch was an all-grain stout that a friend made.
Unfortunately, it was about 10 years ago, I've lost contact with the friend
& I didn't take too good notes on the recipe. So I'd like some help trying
to recreate it. I'm pretty sure wasn't as strong as an Imperial stout & I
know we used a dry yeast. Unfortunately, I don't remember much more (robust
vs brown, etc). So, here's what I have of the recipe. If you have any
questions or clarification, you can contact me directly at this email
address.
12 lb 2-Row
2 lb Carapils
1 lb Black Patent
1/2 lb Chocolate Malt
1/2 lb Roasted Barley
1 tsp salt
2 oz Brewer's Gold, 1/2 oz Cascade (60 min)
2 oz Fuggles, 1/3 oz Hallertau (15 min)
Mash at 154, Strike at 174
Since this will be the 1st time I've done an all-grain batch in 10 years,
any suggestions on the mashing process would be helpful too (length of
mashing time, amount of water needed for mash & sparging, etc). Also, I
have heard 2 different ways to put the grain in the mash tun. One way is to
fill the tun with all the water & then add the grains. The other is to fill
the tun with water up to the false bottom, add a few inches of grain, then
add grain & water at the same time. If it helps at all, I have Hobby
Beverage Equipment Company's Mash Lauter Tun.
Thanks,
Nils Hedglin
Sacramento, CA
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 15:19:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Aaron Robert Lyon <lyona at umich.edu>
Subject: Aussie-ish Beer Scene
I have a friend who is going to New Zeland for at least 6 months. She
certainly likes her beer and even served as our club's president for two
years. What I'm wondering is what to tell her about the beer scene she'll
be able to experience during her stay. Any ideas? I'm really not sure
where she'll be, however. Thanks.
-Aaron
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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:34:55 +1000
From: TOLLEY Matthew <matthew.tolley at atsic.gov.au>
Subject: WARNING - contains bad accents, references to genitals, Iowa
It was a hot day in Iowa. Helga hung the wash out to dry, put a roast in the
oven, then went downstairs to pick up some dry cleaning.
"Gootness, it's hot," she mused to herself as she walked down Main Street.
She passed by a tavern and thought, "Vy nodt?" so she walked in and took a
seat at the bar. The bartender came up and asked her what she would like to
drink.
"Ya know," Helga said, "it is so hot I tink I'll have myself zee cold beer."
The bartender asked, "Anheuser Busch?"
Helga blushed and replied, "Vell fine, tanks, und how's yer pecker?"
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:39:28 -0500
From: "Don and Sarah Cole" <dcole at mc.net>
Subject: RE: Selling on the Internet, apple cider
Is the ATF looking at the list? Anyone else found these two posts just days
apart just a bit questionable?
Matt and Kevin both need to contact their attorneys if they want to sell
brew of any type. Sorry if I seem paranoid, but brewing is important to me
as is this list. I would hate to see anyone give out legal advise and
compromise the listserv with legal advise. IF YOU WANT TO SELL ALCOHOLIC
BEVERAGES, CONTACT A LAWYER!
Don C.
Somewhere in Northern Illinois
>I just joined the list today. :)
>Does anyone know where I can find the legal information I need
>in order to sell my homemade beer and wine on the Internet? I've
>heard that FedEx and UPS have services that check the recipient's
>ID for age verification. I just don't know where to look for Sales
>Tax, licenses, etc... that are needed for the Internet. I live in
>Illinois.
> I've never brewed anything befor but now I'm very interested in
>cider, could you help me with any info on it . Like the differance
>between brewing beer and cider or what are the law's or regulations .
>If I deside to sell it well they let me brew it like they did back in
>the 14 or 15 hundreds. any help well recieve much thanks...
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 23:04:02 -0400
From: Phil Wilcox <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Idophor killed my Carb...
>Phil Wilcox has tried putting a teaspoon in a glass of beer with no
>reported off flavor. That would explain a lot of Phil's taste, of
>course. ;-)
>
>Jeff
Apparently Jeff wants to make sure I'm still paying attention....
OK, I am alive!!! and that was a TABLESPOON... of Starsan that is. And
nobody could taste the difference at my table and that included Mary Ann
Grubner, Fred Scheer and a few other professional brewers who attended
the Taste of the Great Lakes conference that year. 1997???
Idophor, on the other hand I can still taste at 1 teaspoon per 5
gallons. Yuck. I think its time for Jeff to clean the dough out of his
ears. Just how long do you keep that sour dough starter in there
anyway???
With all due fairness to Jeff receeding memory, I did once, bring in an
idophor Pale Ale that I had just drawn off the keg. I think what
happened was a drop of pure Idophor hit the rubber gasket on
swingtop...and even that was at least 3 years ago...
Well since I am here. Jeff I think is barking up the wrong tree. Mark
Tumarkin had good things to say and my guess is he is closer to the
truth.
Todd, What color was the idophor in your bottles? If it was darker than
your bottles than that is the problem for sure. If it was Lipton Ice Tea
or lighter, than this problem was caused elsewhere, like forgetting to
add the dextrose, or adding lactose instead of dextrose or glucose. My
basement is still pretty cold, they might not have had enough time if
the temp is low. Give it another week wear it is. Meanwhile take one
bottle and put it in the cubbord over the stove in the kitchen. Open
them side by side next week and report back the results.
Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewer
Warden - Prison City Brewers
Jackson, MI 32 miles West of Jeff Renner
We Big Brewed 90 gallons--how about you????
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Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:49:11 -0500
From: "elvira toews" <etoews1 at home.com>
Subject: Wild rice analysis
Hi, just thought I would post this so that it's in the archives when someone
needs it.
Nutrient composition of wild rice
(percent by total dry weight)
Moisture 7.9-11.2
Protein 12.4 - 15.0
Fat 0.5 - 0.8
Ash 1.2 - 1.4
Crude Fibre 0.6 - 1.1
Total carbohydrate 72.3 - 75.3
(I'll skip the fatty acids analysis except that 30% of the fat is linolenic
acid)
Minerals (mg/100 g)
Ca 17 - 22
Mg 80 - 161
P 298 - 400
K 55 - 344
Zn 3 - 6
Fe 4
The original source is Anderson, R.A., 1976, *Cereal Chem.* 53:949-955
I found it in *Wild Rice in Canada*, Aiken, Lee, Punter & Stewart, 1988.
Agriculture Canada Publication 1830, New Canada Publications, Toronto.
Wild rice is a really easy adjunct to use. It's pre-gelatinized dry by
aging and toasting, but cook it to be sure. The inner husk stops it from
getting sticky so you don't have to do a cereal mash to stop it from
burning. Cook in 4 volumes water per volume dry wild rice.
The machine-toasted product lacks the smoky flavour of the traditional wild
rice, so look for the good stuff. The broken grains sold for baking,
pancakes or mixing with white rice (why anyone would do that...) is a LOT
cheaper if you can find it. In Winnipeg, Manitoba, look up Neechi Foods to
get it in bulk.
Sean Richens
srichens at sprint.ca
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