HOMEBREW Digest #3702 Tue 07 August 2001

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  Re: Software Piracy (Christopher Farley)
  Watney's Cream Stout ("Greenly, Jeff")
  re: Keg Back Pressure ("Stephen Alexander")
  Nyoo 'strayan (TOLLEY Matthew)
  Copper toxicity (Tony Barnsley)
  aeration (leavitdg)
  Live organisms in boiled wort? (Dan Temple)
  homebrew+australia ("Joseph Marsh")
  Light flavared ale ("Tal McMahon")
  Re: Software Piracy (Dan McFeeley)
  Re: Old Beer Recipes (Dan McFeeley)
  Re: Old Beer Recipes/Sip Through Time ("B.R. Rolya")
  Pittsburgh brew pubs ("Micah Millspaw")
  re: Old Beer Recipes (Fritz Eubanks)
  Perfect Brew day /Fermentarium (Brent Dowell)
  Re: Software Piracy ("Doug Hurst")
  RE:keg foams no longer ("Czerpak, Pete")
  HPLC day dreams (Stephen.F.Higdon)
  Plumbing for a three-tier RIMS ("christopher mika")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 00:34:49 -0500 From: Christopher Farley <chris at northernbrewer.com> Subject: Re: Software Piracy Pete Babcock wrote: > Folks, I have it on good authority that Graham was not proposing > to pirate anyones' software, nor, from what I can tell, has > he. Just some typical Australian chest-thumping amongst > their "mates". You know, homebrewers being what they are (thrifty and crafty), it's surprising that an important, free, open-source, cross-plaform homebrew software project has not yet emerged. Or am I overlooking something? Any interested programmers out there willing to contribute? I'd be willing to donate a mailing list/web forum and a cvs repository at the very least... - -- Christopher Farley www.northernbrewer.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 01:54:53 -0400 From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu> Subject: Watney's Cream Stout Dear Friends, Does anyone have a good recipe for a Watney's Cream Stout clone? I would prefer an extract recipe, but can handle partial or all-grain... Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 03:41:52 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: Keg Back Pressure Eric Ahrendt" writes ... >Dennis Collins wrote: > >>"This method does waste some CO2, but unless you have 10 PSI resistance in >>your line, you will never be able to store the beer and serve it at the same >>pressure (unless you really like near flat beer). Any other ideas out >>there?" > >Has anybody used fluid pressure regulators (think paint systems) is their >setup? Doesn't work that way Eric. You can reduce the flow by just cracking the tap and regulating 'by hand'. The problem either way is that the sudden pressure change will cause nucleation and foaming. Dennis C was on the right track. You can make a tap tubing system that drops from tank pressure to ambient smoothly throughout the length of the tubing when pouring at some reasonable rate. The deal is this - when pouring at 2.5 fl.oz/sec using 1/4" ID tubing you'll drop about 0.55psi/ft. If you switch to 3/16" tubing you'll drop about 1.7psi/ft. at the same flow rate. To get from Dennis' 10psi head keg to a glass with a wide open tap (always the way to pour beer) you need to drop all 10psi in the hose. For a standard 1/4" US Foxx tube you need almost 18ft of tubing. To get the same drop at the same flow rate from 3/16" tubing you'd need less than 6ft of tubing - far more practical. I've replaced my keg tap hoses with ~7ft of 3/16" ID tubing (4.75mm ID for the metrically inclined). The smaller tubing and uniform pressure drop really do reduce foaming - tho' they certainly don't eliminate it. It's also a PITA getting the smaller hose over the larger barb. The detailed calcs and accompanying arguments appear in the July/Aug 1999 HBD. I understand Ant's point. I find that if you use temp/pressure tables to achieve a spec carbonation in a keg, that you will eventually get the carbonation desired. But even after racking from a clean secondary, a lot of 'stuff' appears to get re-suspended in the beer that makes it foam and fob for the next week or so. My guess is that both yeast and sedimented protein are involved. The good part is that once you past this point and have a good tap tube attached it's clear sailing till the keg runs dry. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:22:35 +1000 From: TOLLEY Matthew <matthew.tolley at atsic.gov.au> Subject: Nyoo 'strayan From: acez at mindspring.com >Well, I did it. I made it to Sydney (actually, Newtown) Australia from >Riverside, California. Welcome, and g'day :) >And I get here and mention homebrew and I get >gagging responses. My god! Back home, homebrew is welcomed with >intrigue and respect - and connotated with quality and art. Here, >everyone I have spoke with thinks of a undrinkable, bathtub-fermented >concoction reserved for 'farell' old men. I think that's 'feral', as in rabbits :). Alas, they're probably right. 'Kit and a kilo' brewing dominates the scene - a tin of pre-hopped extract (nothing but the finest Pride of Ringwood, mind you) and a kilo of white cane sugar. Top it up with water from the garden hose, sprinkle your dried yeast on top, ferment at 25oC in the back shed - byoody :). The rest of us (200-odd at the moment) hang out on OzCBD. Check out http://oz.craftbrewer.org, and sign up for the list. Special this month - new members get a free copy of ProMash! ;) Eastern Suburbs Brewery in Randwick (http://www.esb.net.au) seems to be the shop of choice in Sydney - they should be able to get most (well, some) of the stuff you're used to from the States. For commercial brews, check out the James Squire range from the Malt Shovel Brewery (also in Sydney) - they do a decent Amber Ale, Porter and Pilsner. New arrival 'Little Creatures' is also well worth the look. For Belgian beer, have a look at Epoque (http://www.belgian-beer-cafe.com.au) on the north shore. Otherwise, don't drink the beer :). Cheers! ...Matt... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:59:23 +0100 From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk> Subject: Copper toxicity Hi Oh great brewing collective, We on the UK Homebrew list are having a bit of a discussion as to whether or not having a copper immersion coil suspended in the primary fermenter as a wort attemperator would be a good idea. My personal take on it is to use stainless, this is from some experiments I did some years ago at university where we showed that as little as 1ppm copper caused reduced growth in plants. I know some copper is required (as a co factor IIRC), but at what point does copper become toxic to yeast. Are we likely to reach the toxic level just by suspending 20 feet of 3/8" copper coil in fermenting wort? - -- Wassail! The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361) Schwarzbad Lager Brauerei, Blackpool, Lancs, UK UK HOMEBREW - A Forum on Home Brewing in the UK Managed by home brewers for home brewers To Subscribe send blank email to uk-homebrew-subscribe at smartgroups.com This message has been scanned by F-Secure Anti-Virus for Microsoft Exchange as part of the Council's e-mail and internet policy. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 06:36:29 -0400 (EDT) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: aeration If I am aerating with an aquarian pump...am I ok to assume that 2 minutes or so is ok foormal brew a normal brew (up to 1.045 sg) and that 3 or 4 minutes is best for a high gravity brew? ...Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 05:57:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Temple <danatemple at yahoo.com> Subject: Live organisms in boiled wort? I just read (in a Danish homebrewing book from 1970) the following: Wort contains organisms that are not killed by boiling, so unless you get the yeast going quick, these can get the upper hand and give the beer a sour taste. Is this true? I have always assumed that the boiled wort was as sterile as could be. I also read in the book that: "Top fermenting yeast is mostly used for English style ales. It is not possible to achieve proper subtleties of flavour with this kind of yeast". A most entertaining tome :-) Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:33:01 -0500 From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com> Subject: homebrew+australia Maybe they just know Graham. 8^) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:22:47 -0400 From: "Tal McMahon" <tal_mcmahon at beethoven.com> Subject: Light flavared ale Hello All, I am fairly new to Homebrewing (only 4 batches) but I am happy enough with my results to share a batch with my Rugby team. Now the question ....I am Looking for a light ale (I don't have the patience or time to make a lager) that will go down easily by the pints full....these guys really drink (did I mention Rugby team?)...I was considering a Kolsh but do not have a good recipe...also looking for any insight for a good light ale that will be palletable for non- Homebrewing-American-watery lager type beer drinkers. Bassguy Tal McMahon Listen to the "World's Classical Radio Station" http://www.beethoven.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:32:15 -0500 From: Dan McFeeley <mcfeeley at keynet.net> Subject: Re: Software Piracy Pat Babcock wrote: >Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... > >Folks, I have it on good authority that Graham was not proposing to pirate >anyones' software, nor, from what I can tell, has he. Just some typical >Australian chest-thumping amongst their "mates". Let it lay... No, what's going on isn't Australian chest-thumping. Graham is proving himself to be a master at the fine USENET art of trolling discussion groups. Think of James "Kibo" Parry with an Australian accent, and from North Queensland no less! :-) For this round, Graham has successfully trolled both Oz Craftbrewing and HBD! Cheers! <><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Dan McFeeley mcfeeley at keynet.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:32:30 -0500 From: Dan McFeeley <mcfeeley at keynet.net> Subject: Re: Old Beer Recipes John Adsit wrote: >I would like to recommend a book on this very topic. "A Sip Through >Time:A Collection of Old Brewing Recipes, by Cindy Renfrow" (1994) is >exactly what it says it is. . . . >I would love to give you publishing information, but the title page has only >the Library of Congress number (TX 4-019-890), suggesting to me that it was >self-published. (I received it as a gift from a friend who loves nothing >better than poking through unusual bookstores in search of unusual books.) Cindy Renfrow's book is self-published but you can find ordering information at her website http://www.thousandeggs.com. It's an excellent book, something that, IMHO, should be a standard reference for anyone interested in historical information on old fermented beverages. <><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Dan McFeeley mcfeeley at keynet.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:44:54 -0700 From: "B.R. Rolya" <br at triagemusic.com> Subject: Re: Old Beer Recipes/Sip Through Time John wrote: >"A Sip Through Time:A Collection of Old Brewing Recipes, by Cindy Renfrow" <snip> >I would love to give you publishing information, but the title page has only >the Library of Congress number (TX 4-019-890), suggesting to me that it was >self-published. It's currently available from Poison Pen Press, 718-853-8121, www.poisonpenpress.com, devra at aol.com - BR Rolya Malted Barley Appreciation Society NYC http://hbd.org/mbas/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:49:21 -0500 From: "Micah Millspaw" <MMillspa at silganmfg.com> Subject: Pittsburgh brew pubs Thanks to all who recommended Pittsburgh breweries. I went to : John Harvards Alehouse - good food, good IPA, cask conditioned Porter (conditioning was poor) Church Brewworks - great place, very interesting building, very good food and beer. Best in town Penn Brewing - interesting beers, really neat old brewery. Valhalla - beer was mediocre, didn't like the building / decor. Foundry - good beer, good food and service In all I liked Pittsburghs beer selection. Micah Millspaw - brewer at large Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 12:06:22 -0400 From: Fritz Eubanks <ceubanks at cdr.stanford.edu> Subject: re: Old Beer Recipes "A Sip Through Time" by Cindy Renfrow is available at: http://www.thousandeggs.com/sip.html Cindy also has a nice collection of beer and brewing history links at: http://members.aol.com/renfrowcm/links.html Enjoy! Fritz Eubanks Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:24:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Brent Dowell <brent_dowell at yahoo.com> Subject: Perfect Brew day /Fermentarium I just had one of those perfect brewing weekends and wanted to share (gloat) with everyone about it. I've been tapped by my company to provide some beer at the company picnic later this month. Not having time to do a CAP, I decided to do my own interpretation of a CACA (80% 2-row, 15% rice, 5% munich, 25 ibu, 1063 o.g., White Labs California Ale Yeast). I had a couple month old tube of California Ale Yeast from White labs that I hadn't used yet. I decided to make a starter with it using my new (to me) stir plate I got from e-bay for 20 bucks. That thing worked like a charm. I basically just ran it about half speed and had no problems whatsoever. I've never had a batch of beer take off so well, especially considering that I split a quart of starter into two 5 gallon carboys. Probably less than 6 hours of lag time. I boiled up the rice to gelatinize it and mixed it into the mash. Hit my target temp of 152 bang on the money. No measuring, Just kind of winging it with the quantities of malt and water, although I'm always pretty careful with the water temp I use for mixing. While the mash was going, I set up my HERMS system (old wort chiller in a kettle on a second burner). Got the pump going to test it and the wort ran smoothly all the way up to full speed, even with that high a percentage of gooey rice in the mash. Meanwhile, I began putting together my "fermentarium", based on Ken Schwarz's "Son of Fermentation chiller". Since I do 10 gallon batches, all I really needed to do was extend the length of the unit a little bit. I also put it on a solid plywood base with casters and put a particle board outer jacket on it for looks and protection. Nothing goes in my garage if if isn't on wheels! Hooked up an old 120 vac muffin fan to my old hunter air-conditioner thermostat thingy and bingo, almost instant fermentarium. Nothing like putting together an extremely usful gadget with nothing more than styrofoam, particle board, caulking and Duct tape. The amazing thing is, it actually looks pretty good and I'm surprised at how well it works. I've been keeping my Fermentarium at 64 degrees, even though the temperature in the garage has been hitting 95 degrees during the day. I usually give up brewing in the summer, but with the way this is working, I see no reason not to keep right on brewing. Anyway, back to the brewing. The pump worked great and after the mash was complete, I raised the temperature using the HERMS to mash out and proceeded to do the sparge and boil. Not much to report here, but suffice it to say I started at 10:00am, finished by 3:00pm, built a new fermentarium and had 10 gallons of beer all tucked away and happily fermenting in record time. Aint brewing great! Sincerely, Brent Dowell Lone Unknown Brewing Antioch CA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:11:15 -0500 From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: Re: Software Piracy Ok, I apologize that that my emotions got the best of me in my previous post. I should not have named anyone personally who may or may not have engaged in an activity of which I disagree. I do, however, still believe that the software written for our hobby is generally of great quality and those who write it should receive fair compensation for their work. Sorry, I'll go back to brew'n and drink'n now. Doug Hurst Chicago, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:46:04 -0400 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: RE:keg foams no longer In response to Ed Jones who ponders why the kleaning of his taps and lines provided less foam and non-flat beer - it's called fouling. In industry, including those other than beer and food, fouling of pipelines and equipment occurs with time due to mineral or other compounds building up or I guess the reverse as well, wearring down if the medium is corrosive. Fouling factor is usually applied to heat transfer calculations while friction factor is applied to pipe flow calcs. When one design pipelines, a fouling factor is guessed from handbooks or previous data. The degree of fouling affects the friction factor which is what determines how much pressure drop per ft of beer line there is. That is generally, the rougher the pipe, the higher the pressure drop, the more pressure you would need at the source for an equal out pressure. Since you were working off assumed pipe/tubing roughness (probably close to hydralically smooth atleast when new), when your lines were fouled and more rough, your amount of keg pressure was then wrong. fouling can also lead to line restrictions and such where the beer is forced through a small orifice which can drive gas in and out of solution also leading to foam. enjoy the brews while your taps are clean. your post reminds me to clean my tap lines soon as well. I tend to send a keg of very hot water thru them at minimum every once in a while to help them out and keep deposits minimum. brew on, pete czerpak albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:54:14 -0400 From: Stephen.F.Higdon at am.pnu.com Subject: HPLC day dreams High-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC) would be a very handy toy for us homebrewers. It can be fitted with a fermentation monitoring column that allows for the separation of sugars and acids (among many other things). It can tell you the exact amount of glucose, ethanol or acetic acid in your beer, or nearly anything else that may be there. ...(Assuming you made up standards exactly, but I'm not going into the fine details here)... These are expensive machines and require a bit of training to operate. I acquired a "junked" HPLC machine a couple years ago that was in the dumpster, and have it nearly ready to run. I let Bell's quality control lab borrow it, but no one had the time to get her going. It now sits at a friends house waiting to be brought to life. Some day I invision running it to analyze fellow homebrewers beer. You could easily detect most (if not all) off flavors, or contamination. If you see an unusually high amount of lactic or acetic acid, for example, you might suspect an infection. Or if you have a high final gravity, you could tell if it's from sugar or starch. There are hundreds of uses, really. I was a fermentation operator for Upjohn, (Pharmacia) for several years, then switched to fermentation research. This is where the HPLC experience came in. We have a huge fermentation plant, and pilot plant. I now do lab scale chemical research, still using HPLC and GC etc. (I'm more like a lab rat, not a scientist) Eventually I hope to post a note saying, "I'm ready to analyze your strange brews!". It would be fun, but time is scarce, we'll see. All that would be needed is a mL of beer. It could be mailed in a sterile tube. I'm hoping that not much money will be needed to get it going. We may try to recondition a column, and do most of the work ourselves. Fortunately, I know someone else that works on these machines, and likes homebrew! Another one of my "dreams"..........-Higgy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 01:24:02 From: "christopher mika" <cmika at hotmail.com> Subject: Plumbing for a three-tier RIMS Greetings. I am in the midst of constructing my 10 gallon three tier brewing system and have reached a point where I believe the experience of this forum could save me a lot of time and heart ache. My system is set up with the hot liquor tank below the mash tun with a pump provisioned to move the hot liquor between the vessels. I am also planning on incorporating a "SMART"-style RIMs system into the design. I am hoping to draw upon the wisdom of this forum for tips on plumbing the system, keeping in mind I will have only one pump available. I am considering using a hard-piped system with built-in diverter valves to control the flow of liquids through the system. I am not sure how well this might work. I also was wondering if QD fittings will work on a hard-piped system to aid in disassembly for a thorough cleaning. One other issue I could use some input on is in the design of a sparge arm or ring for the mash tun as well as a return for the liquor in the SMART system. My mash tun is a converted 1/2 barrel keg with a 10 inch opening at the top. Any advice, instruction, or web addresses for sites describing similar systems would be much appreciated. Thank You, Chris Mika Return to table of contents
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