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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  HB Tri-nations (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  klingelingeling klingelingeling... ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  Specific Gravity Definition ("John Zeller")
  Fest with 100-odd real ales . . . ("Ray Daniels")
  Re: Forced Carbonation ("RJ")
  re:  fermentation times / yeast nutrition ("Kensler, Paul")
  Re: Forced Carbonation ("Doug Hurst")
  fermentation times - nutrients in all grain wort ("Alan Meeker")
  ale fermentation and the trouble of language (Joseph Gerteis)
  re: Forced Carbonation (John Schnupp)
  Stuck ferment has me stuck... (BOB Rutkowski)
  Cooler conversion problems (pursley)
  Premeir extract ("jps")
  Re: Premeir extract (Pat Babcock)


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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:19:08 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Sun.COM>
Subject: HB Tri-nations

Keith,

I can make it easy for you.

>It would be like trying to pick the best team out of rugby, soccer, and
>cricket teams. Hmmmmmmmm, probably not a good example. 

Rugby - Umm thats the World champion K-mart Wallabies
Soccer - Oz cant win everything....we have to share!
Cricket - Well prior to last night thats Oz again....

>The NZ cricket team will always be bottom of the heap.

Its all about cycles....look at the Pakistan tour.

But this is not intended as comparison test because of the small # 
and differing types. Treating each on its own merits and choosing the 
best one on the day is the aim.

Scotty

(Pat did I done good?? no swearing :-) )



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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:48:51 +0930
From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: klingelingeling klingelingeling...

 ........es kommt der Weyermann!!!!!!!!!


(clipped from OZCbd)
 ...yes folks, Cryer Malt Australia and David Cryer Limited in NZ are now 
the representatives for the
Weyermann Specialty Malt range of products down under. We have the first
stock arriving on the east coast late October and will be putting stock
into WA around November/December - and yes we are excited!
As Sean has already indicated, have a look at the Weyermann web site and
use the shortcut to the English pages -
http://www.weyermann.de/englisch/frames_nn.cfm


yahoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:14:11 -0700
From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com>
Subject: Specific Gravity Definition

After reading the various posts on this issue I have come to the conclusion 
that some of us are making this issue more confusing than it should be.  My 
understanding, and I may be wrong, is that the benchmark for specific 
gravity (ie. S.G. 1.000) is the density of pure water at standard 
temperature and pressure which if I remember correctly is 32 F. at mean sea 
level or 14.7 psi (one atmosphere).  The density of any other material at 
standard temp. and pressure relative to pure water is then the specific 
gravity of that material. This dimensionless ratio will not change with 
variations in temperature, but the relative density of the material 
certainly will in most, if not all, cases. The hydrometer is an analog 
measuring device and yes, it will physically expand or contract with 
temperature changes introducing some degree of error.  The best that we can 
do with these devices is to apply corrections for temperature variations and 
use a device that is designed to minimize theses errors.  I think large 
displacement hydrometers are more accurate than the smaller ones.  The 
graduations will be farther apart allowing more accurate readings and the 
expansion or contraction of the instrument itself would be less significant. 
  The calibration temperature of any hydrometer is completely arbitrary.  
The particular calibration temperature is not important so long as we know 
what it is and we possess the corresponding correction table.  Have I got 
all this right?  Probably not...:-)



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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 05:55:02 -0500
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Fest with 100-odd real ales . . . 

Ant Hayes writes:

>A festival with a hundred odd real ales is a treat - although it does
>present a bit of a tasting nightmare. The minimum dispense volume at
>most stalls was half a pint - and they add up quickly.

Well Ant, if you ever find yourself near Chicago on the first of March,
we'll show you how to do it up right.  We exhibit more than 150 firkins of
American and British real ale at the Real Ale Festival -- and the serving
size is four ounces, so you can sample without, uh, wasting any beer. ;-]

We have dates for RAF 2002:  Feb 28-March 2.  Oh, and we may arrange some
fun and interesting activities commencing prior to Feb 28 as well . . .

Ray Daniels
Real Ale Festival Organizer
E-mail: raydan at ameritech.net
Web: www.realalefestival.com

Don't Miss RAF 2002
Feb 28-March 2
Goose Island Wrigleyville
Chicago, IL
More than 150 casks of award-winning ale from America and Britain
It's a Firkin Great Beer Festival!





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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:12:59 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Forced Carbonation

"David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com> wrote:

"Is there any problem with force carbonating a keg at close to room
temperature?  I may not have enought room in my freezer for what I have
planned.   I know that the liquid will absord less gas at higher temps, so
is it safe to say that I could put 20lbs on the keg instead of 15 lbs and
Thanks,"

Not a problem, just need more PSI as temperature increases... The lastest
issue of  Zymurgy Vol 24 No5, pg 26 has a chart that goes to 32F to 80F x 3
vol CO2 which is considerably higher than most of the charts that I seen
published in the past.



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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:07:19 -0400
From: "Kensler, Paul" <PKensler at cyberstar.com>
Subject: re:  fermentation times / yeast nutrition

In HBD #3714, Graham said:  "Wort from 100% grain actually contains
insufficient nutrient for healthy yeast activity."

Graham,  I'd like to hear you elaborate more on this - scientific evidence
that supports the statement, and subjective comments from your own
experience.  This goes against the generally held belief that 100% malt
worts have plenty of yeast nutrients for a healthy fermentation.



Regards,

Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD


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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:08:34 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: Forced Carbonation

David Craft writes:

"Is there any problem with force carbonating a keg at close to room
temperature?"

I regularly force carbonate my cornies at room temperature.  It simply
requires even higher pressure than you speculated in your post.  The
higher the ambient temperature, the higher the required pressure.  I
generally pump the keg up to about 33psi and let it sit for a couple of
days to allow the CO2 to dissolve into solution.  When I'm ready to
serve the beer, I release almost all of the pressure.  The CO2 in
solution is released and produces enough additional pressure for
serving.  Check out the following chart which correlates temperature and
pressure to volumes of CO2:

http://www.brewery.org/brewery/library/CO2charts.html 

Hope this helps,

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL 


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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:40:49 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: fermentation times - nutrients in all grain wort

Concerning long fermentation times, Graham Stone wrote, in part,
- -------------------------
"...If yours takes more than this, your wort is either:

1. At the wrong temperature for the strain of yeast
2. Your worts have insufficient oxygen at pitching time
3. Your are not pitching sufficient viable yeast (we use 130g solid yeast
per 43 litres)
4. Your worts have insufficient nutrient

This last point took me several years to appreciate. Wort from 100% grain
actually contains insufficient nutrient for healthy yeast activity. Try
using a good yeast nutrient and watch the difference it makes!"
- -------------------------

While #1-3 are likely possibilities, I strongly disagree with #4! As long as
a good amount of healthy yeast is pitched, worts made from all grain mashes
contain all the nutrients necessary to support yeast growth and vigorous
fermentation. Long ago, poorly modified malts led to some problems with
levels of assimilable nitrogen but malts purchased these days are well
modified and supply plenty of nitrogen.

Actually, it is in the case of worts made with sizeable percentages of
nitrogen-poor adjuncts such as rice, corn, or sugars that one might run into
problems, especially if it is a high-gravity wort (ca 1.060 or greater). In
such cases, supplementation with a nitrogen source has been shown to be
beneficial in maintaining yeast viability and giving a timely fermentation.
Higher pitch rates and thorough wort oxygenation are also advised in such
situations.

Other possibilities, which have been discussed in the past on the HBD,
include zinc or magnesium deficiencies (especially Zn), or too large a
calcium:magnesium ratio.

Hope this helps

Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD




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Date: 21 Aug 2001 08:24:54 -0700
From: Joseph Gerteis <joseph540 at elvis.com>
Subject: ale fermentation and the trouble of language

Graham Stone writes with a great comment about the fermentation times
that American brewers normally state for their British-style ales.  I'll add
my own two pence [aside to Graham: do British kids still pitch those 2p
coins against walls?  Are the 2p coins even made anymore?]

More and more I am coming to realize the troubles that language causes
us in brewing.   There are differences in techniques and equipment, of
course.  But we tend to ignore the semantic differences,
which are often equally problematic!  I suspect this is such a case.

Where British brewers will generally say (or so I gather from limited info)
that they ferment for 4-5 days, and then age in a barrel or keg (where 
some secondary or tertiary fermentation still goes on), US homebrewers 
will generally ferment in a primary vessel for about a week, and then 
"ferment" some more in a secondary -- for another week or so, even 
though most of this time is really maturation, since the beer is clearing.

I'd be interested to hear what others have to say on this, since it might just
be my own skewed view.  By the way, as a US homebrewer, I found the 
CAMRA-produced "Brew Your Own British Real Ale" (which I recently 
bought at a used book store) very eye-opening.  Not so much for the 
recipes, but the short chapters on equipment and instructions made me 
rethink some issues that are sort of taken-for-granted in the US, and at
times taken for granted on this site.  What do our British and Canadian 
and Aussie and Kiwi readers have to say?

Best wishes,

Joe Gerteis

- -------------------------------------------------
Get your free  at Elvis e-mail account at Elvis.com!
http://www.elvis.com



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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:28:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Forced Carbonation

From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
>Is there any problem with force carbonating a keg at close to room
>temperature?  I may not have enought room in my freezer for what I have
>planned.   I know that the liquid will absord less gas at higher temps, so
>is it safe to say that I could put 20lbs on the keg instead of 15 lbs and

No problem.  I've done it many times before, but I think you'll need more
than 20 lbs of pressure.  Check the carbonation charts (I don't have one handy)
for the correct pressure.  Of course if you are after a low carbonation level
than 20 psi might be the correct pressure.  You may have to interpolate the
chart a little because they often don't go up to room temps.

=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name



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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:10:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: BOB Rutkowski <bob--o at excite.com>
Subject: Stuck ferment has me stuck...


Hello All,
I brewed what was supposed to be a cream ale, but the OG got a bit high as I
threw in some extra malt, putting out of the Cream ale standard. Here it
is....
1 Lb Breiss Carmel 10L
6 Lbs Lt DME
2.2 Lbs. rice extract. 
2 oz Cascade 45 min
1 oz liberty aroma
OG 1.064
I started with WYeast 1272 American ale II took it down to 1.034
Added a starter of Wyeast 1056 10 days later, still only dropped to 1.032.
Is this brew salvageable? Any ideas as to the problem??? Should I try
another starter, with some yeast nutrient? Or is it headed to the compost? 

Thanks all,
Bob in Southern IL








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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:06:00 -0500
From: pursley at webzone.net
Subject: Cooler conversion problems

I am converting a 5-gallon Gott cooler to a mash/lauter tun. 
I know that a 10-gallon cooler would be better, 
but I have the 5-gallon cooler in hand. 

I am having problems with leaking around the new fitting. 
I found some simple plans on someone's web site, 
but I cannot remember where.

I removed the plastic valve and replaced it with 
a 3/8" ball valve on the outside.
I used a 3/8" close nipple to go through the hole, 
and put a 3/8" compression fitting on the inside.

To the compression fitting I attached a short length of copper tubing 
and a homemade screen ala the Bazooka screen. 

I attached the valve and the compression fitting 
to the nipple using teflon tape. 
I slipped a tight fitting rubber washer over the close nipple. 
I put a steel fender washer over the rubber washer. 
I put the washers on the inside and the outside of the cooler wall. 

I have trouble tightening the assembly enough to prevent leaking. 
It seems that the nipple is barely long enough to fit 
through the wall and leave sufficient threads 
to fit well into the valve and compression fitting.

What have the rest of you done to solve this type of problem? 
Can I just save myself some time and worry by 
buying the cooler bulkhead fitting from Zymico?
Any other ideas?

Jeff Pursley
Bixby, OK



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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:25:20 -0400
From: "jps" <segedy at gsinet.net>
Subject: Premeir extract

I too occaisionally find Premier at a nearby Shop & Save (NAYYY).
It is fine for a quick extract batch, but you want to add appropriate
adjuncts, yeast  and hops.  I even found a few cans in the discount bin a
couple of
years ago for a buck each.  This also has the advantage of shifting brewing
costs to the food budget. (Beer is one of the food groups isn't it?) (Don't
tell SWMO)

John Segedy





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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:09:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: Premeir extract

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, jps wrote:

> I too occaisionally find Premier at a nearby Shop & Save (NAYYY).
> It is fine for a quick extract batch, but you want to add appropriate
> adjuncts, yeast  and hops.  I even found a few cans in the discount bin a
> couple of
> years ago for a buck each.  This also has the advantage of shifting brewing
> costs to the food budget. (Beer is one of the food groups isn't it?) (Don't
> tell SWMO)
> 
> John Segedy

Yaagh! WHere are you located? Premier was once a favorite
"kicker" malt for my brewing, but it disappeared from my LHBS
shelves during that four year hiaitus I had taken from brewing a
few years back...

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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