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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Over-carbonated Bottle Cure...? (Ant Hayes)
  re: yeast farming ("Stephen Alexander")
  Re: Beer in Fort Worth (Steven S)
  Irishgebot? (Ant Hayes)
  Re: Bench Capper Survey ("Zemo")
  chapeau de botteille (Pat Babcock)
  Pumpkin ("David Craft")
  Brew on Premise ("David Craft")
  Re: Over-carbonated Bottle Cure...? (Jeff Renner)
  Re: hop back ("Houseman, David L")
  white film ("Alan McKay")
  Bench Cappers (Len Safhay)
  Bench Capper Survey ("John Zeller")
  Plastic hose troubles ("John Zeller")
  Fridge Question ("Jeffrey L. Calton")
  Slow Wort Priming (Troy Hager)
  Capper Survey (Richard Foote)
  Re: Plastic hose troubles ("RJ")
  Kettle manifold/pick-up tube options? (RiedelD)
  Braggot Recipe ("Hertz, Jeffrey")
  Brew Pot upgrade ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  RIMS question ("Charles W. Beaver")
  Kinda off topic but about converting starch ot sugar ("Pete Calinski")
  Mashing practices: request for techniques (Daron Kallan)
  Re: aeration and foaming (Martin_Brungard)
  Over-carbonated Bottle Cure...? ("2brewers4u")
  re: overcarbonated bottles (Jeff & Ellen)
  Kegs & Coffee ("Charles R. Stewart")


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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:30:56 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Re: Over-carbonated Bottle Cure...?

Todd Bissell wrote
"I have a rather tasty Porter bottled, with one *slight* problem: WAY
TOO
MUCH carbonation. Is there anything I can do to fix this? "

I normally bottle for drinking after 6 to 10 weeks - but sometimes a
bottle sits for a couple of months and gets over carbonated. My test is
to take a bottle opener and gently lift one side of the crown cap, just
enough to let out some of the gas. An over carbonated bottle will
normally start gushing quickly. I then vent in the morning and evening
for a few days until the bottle stops gushing - by which time the
carbonation is normally about right.

Ant Hayes
Gauteng; South Africa


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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 05:53:53 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at att.net>
Subject: re: yeast farming

I*'m coming in in the middle of this one but ...

Scott Thomas wrote ...

>Carlos,
>Your on the right track, but you might want to modify a few of your
>protocols:
>1.For a 750ml starter, use 65-70g of DME.
>  (not sure what a half cup weighs?), (as I'm sure it can vary depending on
>how tightly or loosely you pack it.)
>Try to match your S.G. of the wort to the starting gravity to your starter.

I used to think this also - that matching starter SG with wort SG was a good
idea - but yeast don't acclimate themselves to the extra osmotic pressure,
the higher CO2 levels, the lower O2 or higher alcohol levels that come with
higher gravity wort.   Nothing wrong with the ~10P wort above, but I'd
suggest ~8P, and never make a starter wort above 12P - that's just torturing
the yeast.

>2. I would suggest that you boil the DME in an Erlenmeyer Flask, and crash
>cool it (ice water bath), ASAP to 70*F- 75*F., [...] , keep it as
>close to 75* F as possible, and within 12 -24 hours,

Yeast do acclimate to fermentation temperature.

75F is OK  for an ale yeast tho' a bit high.  For optimal growth rate you
want an even higher temperature than 75F.  If you are looking for healthy
yeast instead of speed grow your starters cooler and slower.   Yeast
accumulate significantly more UFAs in cooler conditions (given oxygen) and
these UFAs are very important later as an anaerobic growth factor, for
healthy membranes, lower ester production, higher alcohol tolerance and less
susceptibility to cold shock.  60F isn't too cold for an ale yeast starter
but it won't ferment out in 12-24hrs either.

>you should be ready to
>pitch to your primary. (Assuming you are doing 5-10 gallon batches.)

Unless I missed something, a 750ml starter is inadequate for pitching a 5 or
10gal batch.  Without resorting to viable cell counts, starter size for ales
runs around 10% of the primary volume for normal gravity ales, more for
lagers. proportionately more for higher gravity worts.

 -S




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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 06:32:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: Re: Beer in Fort Worth


If you do not mind the microbrew/eatery I would highly recommend
Humperdinks.. http://www.theram.com/humperdinks/ 

The closest one is probably the Northwest Hwy location, a little drive but
worth it. I highly recommend the Hefe but the Total Disorder Porter will
definatly hit the spot. 




 Steven St.Laurent ::: steven at 403forbidden.net ::: 403forbidden.net




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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 13:11:45 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Irishgebot?

The following is an extract from today's Business Day (South Africa)
regarding a tie up between Guinness UDV and Namibian Breweries:

(MD Gary) "May said that Guinness was a traditional beer that used only
malted barley, yeast and hops - in the style of "Rheinheitsgebot" or
Germany's purity law for beer brewing. This is a style that is also used
by Namibian Breweries, which makes it well-equipped to meet Guinness's
requirements."

Gary May is MD of Guinness UDV.

Does anyone know how Guinness get that roast barley taste using malted
barley?

Ant Hayes
Gauteng; South Africa


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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 06:44:56 -0500
From: "Zemo" <zemo at buyvictory.com>
Subject: Re: Bench Capper Survey

Dan Listermann (Kudos for the mini-keg article in Zymurgy) asks:

>What kind of capper do you use?

I have three bench cappers: one each size of those red plastic
Italian jobs (one will cork) and a metal one that has the capping
mechanism that adjusts infinitely on a post.

>What would you like to see in a new bench capper design?

Something that holds the cap well. I hate having to race the foam
when I'm solo CPFing.

>How much would be too much to consider?

$30

My $.02.

Zemo
Ordinary Average Brewer
Batavia, IL



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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:18:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: chapeau de botteille

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me top your lager...

Dan asks:

> What kind of capper do you use?

One of those Italian slide-lock, infinitely ajustable jobs, and
a couple of wing cappers in case of emergency.

> What would you like to see in a new bench capper design?

Get rid of the height adjustments required when you hit those
stray, just-taller-or-shorter-enough-to-mean-you-must-move-the-
capper-head bottles when bottling away.

I invision a design where the entire operation, no matter what
the size of the bottle, fits within the stroke of the lever. I
see a system where the capper simply descends to the bottle,
hits the top and then compresses the cap on, whether a split or
a bomber - or anything in between - without my having to
release, the slide, adjust, then cap.  An integral spring which
is not stronger than the bottle, but has enough force for the
capping operation could make this possible. So could a slide
that doesn't latch until it is set by an opposing force (and
releases once that force is relieved). Hmmm...

A superior means of centering the bottle, too, would be a boon.
Can't use the base as they vary; however the neck at the top is
usually pretty close to the same, bottle to bottle. A deep
lead-in on the bell can help, too, but it must leave enough room
top rock the bottle to release it after capping (mine are
constantly caught in the bell).

(Or how about integrating a CP filler and a capper into one
unit?)

> How much would be too much to consider?

Too much is never enough. Well, maybe from the seller's
perspective. Less than $50 definitely; less than $35 highlky
desirable.


- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:42:29 -0400
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
Subject: Pumpkin

Hello,

I plan on making my pumpkin ale next weekend.  I have made it previously
using extract with grains and just dumping canned pumpkin in the boil and
heavily dosing with Irish Moss. This turned out fine as most of the flavor
comes from the spices.....

However I have a pumpkin vine in the backyard with five nice specimens and I
now brew all grain.  I was thinking about cooking the pumpkin halves,
scooping out the meat, pulverizing, and mashing on the stove in pot with
some grains (for enzymes), adding a liberal dose of Irish Moss, cooling,
separate the trub,  then adding to my boil after doing my normal mash with
my grain.

Any thoughts on this.......I just want to avoid a stuck mash.  I do not have
any rice hulls and probably can't get them in time. Do health food stores
sell rice hulls? After reading what other people have done, dealing with
pumpkin is certainly a challenge!

David B. Craft



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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:52:15 -0400
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
Subject: Brew on Premise


I am curious how any laws, Federal or State (NC), regard Brew On Premises?
I have been thinking, long range 5 years, about opening a brewing store with
Brewing on Premises for customers.  I understand I cannot brew beer for sale
under any circumstances, but can customers brew on site and take home for
personal consumption. Can I brew on site for myself and offer beers to
customers?  Anyone have any experince with this?

David B. Craft
Greensboro, NC



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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:05:36 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Over-carbonated Bottle Cure...?

Todd Bissell <tbissell at spawar.navy.mil> of Imperial Beach, CA (come 
on, youse other guys, you're forgetting to include where you're 
from!) wrote:

>The porter is tasty, but the carbonation is so heavy (I'm surprised none of
>the bottles haven't blown up!) that it makes it rather undrinkable. Any and
>all ideas are welcome...!

It's simple - pour the bottle into a pitcher, let it settle down, 
then pour it into your glass.  If it's still to carbonated, you may 
want to use a "pocket beer engine" (a syringe - see archives).

Way back in the 70's when I was a fairly new brewer, I often noticed 
that a blend of several styles of beer would taste better than any 
one of them by itself and was puzzled until I realized that I was 
combining several bottles in a pitcher, thereby decarbonating the 
beer.  The result was far smoother.

This is of course one part of the secret of real ale, and the reason 
for the pocket beer engine as well.  Most beer tastes smoother with 
less fizz.  Leave that for Coke.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:39:49 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Re: hop back

I think that using a false bottom in a hopback is losing the point of the
hopback.  You want the hot wort to be in contact with the hops long enough
to transfer the aromatics but not too long as to evaporate them or to absorb
bittering acids.  Usually in a hopback one injects the wort at the bottom,
to prevent splashing and takes the wort out of the top, having been filtered
through the hops.  If you're using a false bottom you'll end up having to
somehow distribute the hot wort over the hops, risking aeration and the
contact time may be quite brief since the wort just then flows out the
bottom.  Plug the outlet and let the container fill first then empty and
fill at the same time solves these problems but then why not just put the
hops into the kettle with a false bottom at knockout and accomplish the same
thing?  

Dave Houseman
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 08:41:57 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: hop back

Scott (& -Alan)

Another great way to make a hopback is to use a partial-masher's lauter tun,
they hold about a gallon (liquid) have a false bottom and all you need to
add is a small drilled hole in the top cover to all the wort to flow into
it.






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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:51:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at ottawa.com>
Subject: white film

Todd,

That ultra-thin white film sounds a lot like a lacto-bacillus (sp?) 
infection. This bacteria is great in sauerkraut or fermented dills, 
but you do not want it in your beer!  If you have a big enough pot 
it may not be too late to pasteurize the thing.  Rack it into the 
pot, bring to 170F, then cool and rack it back to a sanitized carboy.  
I've saved a few beers and meads this way.  In fact, I just 
pasteurized a mead on the weekend.  Stupid me had my pickles fermenting 
next to it and even though my mead was sealed, somehow the L-B got in 
there but I caught it early enough that it was not detectable taste wise.
Though if the whole surface is covered I think it is too late.  Taste 
it to see.  

The problem could very well be in your tap water - perhaps you should 
have it checked.  Of course, if it is highly chlorinated then I dunno.  
I use plastic hoses and have no problems at all in my brewery.  I 
sanitize with iodophor or chlorine bleach.   Perhaps you are due for a 
complete review of your brewery and procedures to track down the problem.  
How long do you soak in your sanitizer?  etc, etc, etc.  A few years ago 
I had a few bad batches which I eventually traced to too-short of soak 
times in my sanitizer.  So I tossed out ALL my plastic components and 
increased my soak times, and until this weekend have never had a bad 
batch since.

cheers,
 -Alan



- -- 
    "Brewers make wort.  Yeast makes beer."
               - Dave Miller
http://www.bodensatz.com/
What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html



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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:18:44 -0400
From: Len Safhay <cloozoe at optonline.net>
Subject: Bench Cappers

Re: Dan Listermann's query, I use a standard, cheapo Italian bench
capper for which I paid under 20 bucks. Adjustable, but not
automatically adaptable to different height bottles. Things "wrong" with
it:

Small margin for setting proper height, i.e. an inch down is too low, an
inch up is too high.

Pressure of applying caps gradually pushes it out of adjustment.

Very unstable if not mounted to a bench, which is impracticle in my
case.

Caps sometimes stick

Don't know what I'd pay for a much better one. It's always going to be a
PITA no matter how you slice it, primarily because you must place each
cap on each bottle. Now if you could come up with a design at a
reasonable cost that allowed you to load the caps into the capper
eliminating the need to place them carefully on each individual bottle,
in addition to addressing the above, that would be really worthwhile..



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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 07:24:07 -0700
From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com>
Subject: Bench Capper Survey

On Sept. 9th Dan Listermann asks the following:

What kind of capper do you use?

What would you like to see in a new bench capper design?

How much would be too much to consider?

1.  I have the Italian self adjusting model which I am very pleased     
with.  I think I paid about $30.00 for it.

2.  a.  A magazine to load the caps automatically
    b.  SS in lieu of plated metal
    c.  possibly motorized

3.  $50 would be my limit.  I really don't think I need more than the     
one I have, so this would be more of a novelty than a necessity.

Hope this helps some.  What we really need is an improved version of the 
mini kegs that would allow forced carbonation and easy cleaning at a 
reasonable price.

John Z.
Cincinnati, Ohio




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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 07:36:10 -0700
From: "John Zeller" <jwz_sd at hotmail.com>
Subject: Plastic hose troubles

On Sept. 9th Todd Bissell wrote:

"I've had two batches as of late get infected" (snip)

Todd,

I am not totally convinced that you have an infection in either batch. You 
do not describe the problem for the first one, so I cannot help with that 
one, but you mention a thin white film on the surface of the second batch.  
This film may not be an infection, but instead simply a byproduct of the 
fermentation.  Don't leap to the conclusion that the batch is bad until you 
taste it.  I would sample it right now to see if there are any off flavors 
or smells.  If not, proceed normally and the beer will likely be OK.

My preferred method of keeping the vinyl hoses clean and sanitized is to 
flush them with dishwashing liquid/water solution.  Usually just siphon some 
through the hoses then flush with hot water.  For sanitizing and storage I 
keep them completely submerged in bleach/water sanitizer until the next use. 
I coil them up in a plastic bucket and keep the lid on it while storing. 
Then simply rinse with hot water before the next use.  The trick is to never 
let them dry out.  My hoses look almost like new after nearly two years of 
use.  I haven't had any infection problems so far.





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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:42:54 -0700
From: "Jeffrey L. Calton" <calton at csus.edu>
Subject: Fridge Question

Greetings,

Because I'm only a casual reader of the Digest, this question might have
been asked before, so let me apologize in advance if that's the case.

I'm currently using a small Kenmore refrigerator for lager fermentation.
This is a half-sized model, larger than the small cubicle dorm fridges, but
much smaller than a regular sized refrigerator.  This model has the small
freezer compartment at the top, which is essentially a "cold plate" that
enters through the top at the back.

After taking out the walls of the freezer part, and bending the cold plate
out of the way, my plastic bucket fermenter will just barely fit inside the
fridge.  However, I would have a lot more room if I could completely
disconnect the cold plate and remove it.  Is it possible to do this without
losing all the freon?  On the other hand, if the cold plate can be removed
and the unit then recharged with freon, that might be acceptable as well.

Thanks,


Jeff Calton
Sacramento, CA



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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:51:15 -0700
From: Troy Hager <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Slow Wort Priming

On my last batch of pale ale (OG: 1055 FG: 1010) I tried wort priming in the
keg as talked about here in the digest a month ago or so. The beer was in
the fermentor for a couple weeks and had dropped very bright. I racked it to
a purged keg and then added about 1.5 qts. of wort that I had canned after
the boil.
 
At this point, the beer tasted very clean and excellent and the wort smelled
and tasted great too. This beer had been dry hopped (1oz of Cascade) and had
a great hop nose and hop flavor. After racking to the keg, I purged the
headspace and put about 2-4 psi on the keg to seal the lid. I then placed it
in my basement (65-68F) and let it sit. 
 
Let me say, I am meticulous about sanitization. Everything was hand scrubbed
with TSP and rinsed well. Lid and fittings were pressure cooked. Everything
was soaked in StarSan for at least 10 minutes.
 
I rigged up a gas pressure gauge on a keg gas-out disconnect so I could
monitor the pressure build up - i.e. priming fermentation. At first I left
the gauge attached to the keg but after a few days I was afraid of leaks so
disconnected it after I checked the pressure each time.
 
I waited... 2 days, no pressure. 3 days, no pressure. Maybe the basement was
too cold. I moved the keg to the garage at about 70F. 5 days, no pressure!!!
I began to wonder if it would ever prime. Anyway, at about day 6-7, I saw
the pressure start to build and it did so for the next 4-5 days up to about
15psi. It increased about 2-3psi/day and when I saw that it was not
increasing, I took a sample, agitated the CO2 out of it and checked the sg -
1010. I then placed it in the fridge to settle out.
 
When I tasted it after about 5 days in the fridge, it was still somewhat
hazy and did not taste clean at all. There was a bit of yeast flavor in
there and some fruity/apply flavors that I did not like as well. Also, it
had picked up a sweet/worty flavor that was not there before - tasted a
little underattenuated - even though FG read about the same as it had at the
hop aroma and just a little sweet fruity malt aroma if anything. Also the
smooth hop flavor was not apparent. Hop flavor and bitterness had taken on a
slight edge of harshness that I don't like at all. Bottom line - very
different than the pre-primed sample and not nearly as good.
 
Carbonation was very nice though - fine bubbles that actually cascade a bit
(like Guinness) and very different than what I get when I force carbonate.
 
So, my questions are: Why did it take sooooo long to ferment after I added
the priming wort? Have others had this experience? My guess is that there
was very little yeast left in the beer and it took them a long time to get
going... but a whole week? That seems extreme. Also, any ideas in the change
of flavor? I am going to let it sit for another week or two to settle out
and stablize, is this standard procedure after priming... that it does need
another period of conditioning for it to come together...? Also, what
happened to my hop aroma. It totally disappeared after priming. 
 
This is the first time I have tried wort priming (I usually force carbonate)
and so far, I am not impressed.
 
Troy


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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 14:01:09 -0400
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Capper Survey

Dan the man Listerman ... er ... mann asks for input on cappers...

My favorite bench capper is an old one too.  I bought it at an auction.  It
was advertised as a wine corker, but I knew better.  Maybe it was
advertised as a "wine corker" because back when I bought it, (pre '93) home
brewing was illegal in GA. The capper head was simply turned upside down.  

My scrounge instincts told me that under all that rust (which is still has
plenty of, BTW) was a beaut of a HB capper.  Turn the sucker around and
viola! Or is that voila?  Anyway, it has a gear mechanism that is
self-adjusting within its range of motion to various bottle heights.  

It has opposing wooden handles configured like a big wing nut, if you will,
to raise and lower the capper head.  A couple revolutions up and a couple
down and you've capped a bottle.  IMHO, it's far more convenient than those
big plastic jobs with the adjustable plates under the bottle costing way
too much.  

The head of the capper is not magnetic, which is fine.  I find that gravity
works fine for keeping the caps on the bottle tops prior to bring'in er home.

My 2 cents.  Hope this helps.


Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewing
Murrayville, GA




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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 14:12:57 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Plastic hose troubles

"Bissell, Todd S" <tbissell at spawar.navy.mil> wrote:

" <snip> Assuming that I chuck these hoses and buy new ones, how do I keep
them clean and sanitized...? Obviously using tap water is not cutting it.
Anyone have
any ideas how I can use boiling water, or at least bottled water (the same
brand I use for brewing, I'm thinking), to keep things nice and clean over
time...?"

Todd,

A simple method is to place them into a lagre jar filled with hydrogen
peroide.




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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:27:26 -0700
From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Subject: Kettle manifold/pick-up tube options?

I've discovered that the manifold in my boil kettle has been collecting 
nasty black flakey stuff.  It unfortunately decided to send it out through
the valve and into my CF chiller on the weekend.  (I'm hoping it was all
well, and truly dead, and that my beer is not ruined)

In any case, I've never thought the manifold (slotted copper around the
outside edge of the kettle bottom) was all that great, so I'm considering
changing it.  Any thoughts on preferred methods?  I was thinking of a
shorter piece of that SS braided plumbing stuff; maybe 8-10" long, angled
down and to the side of the kettle?

What's the consensus (other than a false bottom)?

cheers,
Dave
Victoria, Can.


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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 14:16:45 -0500
From: "Hertz, Jeffrey" <Jeffrey.Hertz at nuveen.com>
Subject: Braggot Recipe

I was thinking of doing a braggot-my first-and was looking for recipe
advice.  I'll probably just use extract, so I can keep it simple.  My main
questions are: 1) Do I need to boil the honey or just add it at the end of
my wort boil?  2) Do people usually hop the wort at all or just minimally
for the preservative benefits?  3) What type of yeast to use? I was thinking
a sweet mead, but maybe a alchohol tolerant ale yeast for something a little
less dry??

Thanks in advance,
Jeff




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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 13:09:48 -0700
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: Brew Pot upgrade

Hi,
  My wonderful wife is buying me a larger brewpot as an anniversary present
& I'm trying to decide what type I want.  So here are my questions:

1) Stainless steel vs aluminum.  I know there has been a lot of debate about
adverse affects of using aluminum, but from what I've read, it seems there
are no real issues with it.  
2) Heat distibution.  We saw 2 different versions of PolarWare at the
restaurant supply stores we went to.  There was the plain kind, & the
HeatRite with the aluminum layer in the bottom for better distribution of
heat.  We've also seen the copper bottom pots.  Since the wort can flow
freely around in the pot, is there really the concern with burning that
would justify the aluminum or copper bottoms?  
3) 20 gauge vs 18 gauge.  I know the 20 gauge is thinner, but for all
pratical brewing purposes, is there really a difference?  
4) Size.  For now, I'm only planning on doing 5 gallon all-grain batches so
a 7.5 gallon pot sounds good to me.  But if I ever want to attempt step
mashes, wouldn't I want something bigger to be able to do the mash in?
5) Finally, a spigot.  I know this is a real nice feature, but I'd like to
keep it under $150 & most of the pots we've seen under that price with
spigots end up having something else wrong (no handles, etc).  Since I can
do the same thing with a racking cane & hose, & since I already have a
separate mash/lauter tun, it may not seem worth it to get a spigot that will
only be used when I'm racking from the pot to the carboy after the boil.
Any comments?

Thanks in advance,
Nils Hedglin
Sacramento, CA


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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:38:01 -0500
From: "Charles W. Beaver" <cbeav at netnitco.net>
Subject: RIMS question

With the recent resurgence in the RIMS thread, I decided to automate my RIMS
system. I had been running a manual RIMS meaning that I was recirculating,
but would kick on the burner periodically to apply a little heat to maintain
mash temp. I already had the controller and just needed to add the heater.
I used a 4500 W (wired to 110v) heater in line and found that even with full
time hearing the temp drifted down. I am mashing 28 lb of grain in 7.7 gall
of water.
Questions - How can I tell if I need more heater power or greater flow. I
estimate that I am pumping about 2 liters / minute.





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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:10:22 -0400
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Kinda off topic but about converting starch ot sugar

Traffic is slow right now so I thought I would post this:

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GENETIC VARIATION IS THE SPICE OF LIFE
commentary from The Los Angeles Times

The other day (you know, just during the normal flow of conversation) my mom
informed me that her saliva is highly unusual. Back in college, she
reminisced, she did this experiment that involved spitting into a tube then
testing (using a chemical color change) to see if her spit could turn starch
into sugar. Normal spit can: It contains an enzyme amylase) that begins the
digestion of starch way up in our mouths. "But as there wasn't any in my
spit," said my mom, "it never turned anything any color whatsoever."

Wow! Could it be that my mother is an unusual genetic variant? Could this be
a trait that runs in our family? To find out if such folks are known to
science, I Checked with a veritable treasure trove of such variations--put
together by a pioneer in human genetics research, Dr. Victor McKusick. The
database, known as the Online Mendelian Inheritance in Man
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Omim), lists oodles of human traits (and
disorders) caused by differences in certain genes.
<http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-000073026sep10.column?coll=la%2Dnews
%2Dscience>

>From Sigma Xi, The Scientific Research Society.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:08:11 -0700
From: Daron Kallan <dkallan at yahoo.com>
Subject: Mashing practices: request for techniques

Fellow Homebrewers,

I have been all-grain brewing for about a half-year now, with pretty good
success actually.  Ultimately, however, I have come across situations and
have had questions that I cannot find documented in any of the major
references.  I know that many brewers have different beliefs about mashing
practices, but I would be interested to get a consensus on what may be the
best practices for my situation.

The Mash
========

I usually perform my mashing in a 40-quart kettle with a stainless steel
false bottom and an insulated mash jacket.  To help filter out grain
particles, I have also tried placing one of those stainless steel screen
tubes (EasyMash?) under the false bottom; I attach the screen to
high-temperature silicone tubing that I squeeze directly into the ball valve
exiting the bottom of the kettle/tun.  So far, I have had very good
extraction.

My questions come down to technique, and here I would like to tap your
collective vast experience:

1a) When mashing in, is it better to add the grain first and the strike
water second, or to add the strike water first and the grain second?  I have
seen instructions to do it both ways.  So far, I seem to prefer the second
option when kettle-mashing because of the ease of controlling the strike
water temperature and the minimized thermal mass.

1b) Is it best to add the (grain/strike water) to the (strike water/grains)
all at once, before stirring, or in small increments while stirring?

2a) Because I use a false bottom, there is a lot of space below the false
bottom where the grist cannot go but water can -- a gallon or more, perhaps.
It tends to sit under the false bottom, buffer the temperature (particularly
when direct-heating), and not significantly add water to the mash.  Whether
adding the strike water before or after the grains, I often result with a
too-dry mash, and the addition of more water throws off my subsequent
infusion temperature calculations.  If I fill the space with water before
mashing, I can end up with a too-thin mash.  In calculating my strike
water/grain ratio (say, 1 qt/lb), should this be included in the
calculations?  Or, more simply, should I fill or partially fill the bottom
of the kettle/tun up to the false bottom with extra water before doing
anything else?

2b) If the answer is yes to 2a, how do you compensate for subsequent
infusion temperatures to include this extra volume of water?

3) Using a kettle as a mash-tun, it is often difficult to control the mash
temperature when direct-heating.  The bottom of the mash (or the water below
the false bottom) will get hot, while the top and middle (where the
thermometer is) will stay cool -- or the temperature may sneak up on me
after a long, long wait.  To better control the temperature differential, I
have started draining the warmer, bottom mash water through the bottom of
the kettle/tun into a pyrex container, then mixing the runnings back into
the top of the mash.  If the burner is turned on (low heat), the circulation
of the mash water through the bottom of the kettle seems almost like a crude
RIMS system.  For fear of hot-side aeration, I am careful to minimize
splashing, but some splashing is ua\navoidable, and *any* motion of hot mash
or wort worries me.  Is this a good system or is there a better way to
control mash temperature in such a configuration?

4) In sparging, I have one of those spinning sparge arms to sprinke the
sparge water over the grain bed.  In doing so, I have often wondered if this
also creates a risk of hot-side aeration.  Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your input,
Daron
El Dorado Hills, CA



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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:17:30 -0400
From: Martin_Brungard at urscorp.com
Subject: Re: aeration and foaming

The recent mentions of excess foaming during 02 aeration have caught my
attention.  I can bring my wastewater treatment experience to bear here.
As you may know, aeration is a major component of most modern wastewater
treatment processes.  Oxygen transfer is the major goal, but mixing of the
wastewater is an important minor aspect.  There are several variables at
work that determine the amount of oxygen transfer in a process.  The
"fineness" of the bubbles and the depth of the aerators are the most
important physical features.  Fine bubble diffusers are more efficient at
promoting oxygen transfer to the water column.  Increasing the aerator
depth also improves the transfer efficiency.

There are a couple of things to learn from the wastewater aerator design.
Using a fine pore diffuser and setting the diffuser at the bottom of the
fermenter are the most efficient.  The other thing to consider is that the
mixing function of the aeration process in wastewater systems is NOT needed
when aerating wort.   When using a fine bubble diffuser, the air flow rate
needs to be LOW.  This promotes the formation of small bubbles.  If the air
flow rate is too high, the bubbles coalesce into larger bubbles, reducing
the transfer efficiency.  The other consequence of blowing the oxygen in
too fast is that the wort will foam profusely from all the bubbles.

I've been using an oxygen system for about a year and a half.  That's about
(15) 5-gallon batches.  I just ran out of my first bottle of oxygen, its
one of the little red bottles that go with those propane bottles from Home
Depot.  I have been getting explosive ferments since I started using
oxygen.

I recommend that you consider the recommendations in the two paragraphs
above, keep the flow rate LOW when aerating.  You actually improve the
transfer efficiency, use less oxygen, and create less foam.  I have spoken
with some brewers who think that you can't regulate the flow from the
regulators that come with these little oxygenator systems.  I can attest
that you can regulate the flow to a minor trickle from the stone.  I
carefully open the valve until I see a slight surfacing of bubbles in the
fermenter.  Then too further enhance the residence time of the bubbles, I
swirl the fermenter to get the bubbles to swirl around the wort instead of
rising vertically.  That gives the bubbles more time to be submerged in the
wort.   I find that I have to continue to open the valve a little bit as I
go on.  I end up supplying oxygen for about 2 to 3 minutes at this low flow
rate.  As I mentioned above, my results suggest that I am getting an
adequate transfer.

So for those of you that just crank up the oxygen and let it boil, you are
probably wasting oxygen and causing excess foaming.  Try this more gentle
application.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL



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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:45:40 -0500
From: "2brewers4u" <2brewers4u at home.com>
Subject: Over-carbonated Bottle Cure...?

Cool to damn near freezing before serving..~34 degrees, open slowly and warm
in the glass



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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 20:55:12 -0400
From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: re: overcarbonated bottles

Todd Bissell wrote that he had some bottled porter that was way too 
carbonated.  I solved a problem with one of my beers once that was 
over-primed, but not infected.  It took a little experimenting, but I put 
one or two bottles in the freezer for about 30 minutes, then, after they 
were almost frozen, uncapped them and let them slowly foam over for about 
twenty minutes in a bowl on the kitchen counter, and recapped them.  After 
letting them cool down to drinking temperature, I sampled them for 
appropriate carbonation.  It worked really well, but I did have to work on 
the foam-over time with more than one or two bottles.  I hope this helps 
save a batch of Porter.  It saved a really nice Rauchbier for me once.

Jeff Gladish, Tampa, Florida



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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 22:51:19 -0400
From: "Charles R. Stewart" <Charles at TheStewarts.com>
Subject: Kegs & Coffee

Pete -

	If it's any help, I just received a couple dozen 2.5 gal. ball lock kegs.
At only 13 inches tall, they're only 3 inches taller than a gallon of milk -
they fit fine on the top shelf of my fridge (I could fit 4 or 5 up there, if
we didn't have all that damned food, but I guess you have to have something
to wash down with beer).  From what I understand, they're pretty rare, so
first come. . . .  And as always, $2 from each keg goes to the server fund
if you identify yourself as a HBD member.  Just order a 3 gal. keg from my
web site (http://Charles.TheStewarts.com) and either specify a 2.5 in the
notes section, or else send me a separate e-mail.

>On Sat, 8 Sep, Pete Calinski <pjcalinski at adelphia.net> clarified re:
Kegging in PET and Tap-A-Draft

>I want "kegs" that are smaller than 5 Gal. or 3 Gal. so I can fit 5 or 6 on
the top shelf of my refridigerator at the same time.

	Also, I'm getting ready to brew my coffee stout.  Last year I brewed 1/3
pound of coffee in a coffee maker and added it prior to fermentation.  It
was pretty good, but didn't have the aroma I'd like.  Anyone ever try
"dry-coffeeing" in secondary?  I'm thinking I might get more of the aroma
that way.

Chip Stewart
Charles at TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com

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