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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  shower wand bottle filler ("Liam")
  Old liquid wheat malt extract. (Luke Enriquez)
  Wyeast 3068...no phenols/esters? ("Dr. John")
  CAP and cream ale recipes (part 1) (Jeff Renner)
  CAP and cream ale recipes (part 2) (Jeff Renner)
  fruit beer / what to do to help (David Harsh)
  Swiped from another forum (Pat Babcock)
  Decoction Mashing Pale Malt (brewer)
  ** PLEASE READ ** Re: NYC Disaster ("John Biggins")
  A Suggestion ("Peter Garofalo")
  A farewell gathering at Egan Brewing Company ("Bob \"Now go have a beer\" Paolino")


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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 14:06:36 +1000
From: "Liam" <lthomps2 at bigpond.net.au>
Subject: shower wand bottle filler

G'day,
I just got through bottling up a batch of Guinness-oid with my latest
trivial gadget & I was so happy with it I though I'd post.

It's a Gardena shower wand with the head cut off at about bottle length. I
was looking for something at the hardware store to enable me to control the
bottle filling flow with one hand  and happened across this. It has a
trigger arrangement & can be stripped right down to parts for cleaning.. The
shaft is Al, so is easy to cut. The result was fast filling with very little
foaming & spillage, plus it looks pretty neat. A big contrast to my last
attempt using a bit of hose and the fermenter tap to control things. Beer &
foam everywhere.

p.s. are you supposed to crack roasted barley? I didn't because I guessed it
was like black malt, but the end product doesn't look quite as dark as
Guinness.

Slointe
Liam



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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 00:52:25 +1000
From: Luke Enriquez <wenrique at bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Old liquid wheat malt extract.

Hi People,

Recently got back into brewing after 12 month break. Found some 
liquid wheat malt extract and decided to make a wheat beer. Used
Wyeast 3056 with a very big active starter. Noticed when I opened
the cans the malt extract was darkish (it had been on my shelf for 12 months).
Didn't think much of it. Just tasted the beer today after 5 days of 
active fermentation. Well, at 1.020 it needs a bit more fermentation.
The problem : Fermentation has stopped. 

Have I made a really big mistake and just made a beer with oxidised 
sugars that wont ferment? What does oxidization do to sugars in
malt extract.  I spoke to my supplier and he said that 
oxidation will cause the malt to go dark and have a more caramel 
flavour. I've read about 3056 gravity problems which is why I used
a very large starter. Fermentation was at 18 deg cel.

I've now transfered the beer to a secondary. I diverted some of this
beer into a seperated demijon and put some rasberries in it. My 
theory is that if the beer is going to have a high gravity, then 
the extra acidity from the berries might help balance the beer.
Oh, the beer with the berries has no broken into another 
active fermentation whilst the beer without is still quiet. 

All comments appreciated.
Regards,
Luke




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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 11:20:38 -0500
From: "Dr. John" <drjohn17 at home.com>
Subject: Wyeast 3068...no phenols/esters?

I just brewed a Hefeweizen with Wyeast 3068 -- Weihenstephan Weizen. I've
had success with this yeast before. In fact, one of the first (and best)
beers I ever brewed was a fantastic Hefe -- nice clove/banana flavor and
aroma. Recently, however, I can't get this yeast to produce those same
flavors and aromas. Has anyone else experienced this? Maybe I'm fermenting a
little cool? I think this last batch was fermented at 63F. When I racked it
to the kegs, the fermentor had a nice aroma, but the resulting beer tastes
like an "American" wheet beer -- cloudy and yeasty.

Any thoughts would be appreciated...

John Thompson
Baton Rouge, LA



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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 12:25:30 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: CAP and cream ale recipes (part 1)

RJM , AKA Redbeard (why not let us know your real name?) 
<redbeard47.ny at netzero.net> has asked for the CAP and CACA recipes. 
I hope that your loss of them due to the WTC tragedy had no personal 
involvement.

Since I've made some minor revisions and corrections and there is low 
traffic, I'll post this again.

Good for Glen for brewing a CAP this weekend!

This is a slightly revised recipe from my Sept/Oct, 2000 Zymurgy 
article that I posted to HBD in June.

I corrected the amount of water for the cereal mash and changed it to 
reflect several other changes.  I did not mash in at 104F (40C) for 
my brews this year, but rather at the first saccharification rest of 
146F (63C).  It really seems to work just about as well.  I add the 
cereal mash after a 30 minute rest to boost to the 158F (70C) rest 
(with heat or boiling water if necessary).  This also reflects my 
slightly higher FWHing.

These mash rest times are very arbitrary.  Longer won't hurt to 
accommodate the schedule.

If you can't get 6-row, 2-row works just as well, and some brewers 
prefer it.  Likewise, if you prefer simplicity, substitute flaked 
corn (maize) or rice for the cornmeal or rice and skip the cereal 
mash and even the step mash for a single mash.  Mashing at no higher 
than 149 F (65 C) will give a crisp beer, higher mash temperatures 
will give a less attenuated beer.

Cluster hops are probably what the vast majority of breweries used 
100 years ago, and were still the predominate hops until the last few 
decades.  They still are used widely.  If you prefer for taste or 
availability reasons, you can use all noble hops or US equivalent 
(Crystal is wonderful), or use any neutral hops for bittering.  Do 
not use the distinct modern American hops such as Cascade, Columbus 
or Centennial.  This are not appropriate, IMHO.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-=-=-

Classic American Pilsner

5 finished beer gallons at 1.051

7.25 lbs. six-row malt
2 lbs. coarse corn meal*

*Or grits, polenta or coarsely ground rice, or combination of rice and corn

First Wort Hops: 4-5 HBU Saaz or other noble hops
Bittering hops: (60 minutes) 5.3 HBU whole Cluster (4.8 HBU for pellets)
Flavor hops: (15 minutes) 1.5 HBU whole noble hops or Styrian 
Goldings (1.2 HBU for pellets) ten minutes before strike.

Yeast:  Any clean lager yeast

Water: low alkalinity, low sulfate water

See part 2 TRADITIONAL AMERICAN "DOUBLE MASH" for additional details.

Schedule for American Double Mash for cornmeal or rice (grits and 
polenta must be boiled longer):

Time 00:	In a kitchen pot, mash in corn or rice and 10 ounces 
of malt with ~3 quarts of water  (~4 for rice) to hit 153F (67C), 
rest in preheated oven 20 minutes.
Time 15:	Mash in main mash 146F (63C)
Time 20:	Bring cereal mash to boil, stirring
Time 30:	Cereal mash boiling, stir frequently
Time 65:	Add cereal mash to main mash yield, adjust 
temperature as needed to 158F
Time 95:	Ramp to 170F (76C) mashout, then sparge and lauter

As soon as kettle bottom is covered add first wort hops and maintain 
wort temperature at approximately 170F (76C) during lautering. 
Collect enough wort to yield 5.25 gallons finished wort.

Boil uncovered at least 60 minutes, longer to reduce DMS if necessary.

Chill to 48F (9C), aerate or oxygenate well, pitch yeast from large starter.

Ferment at 48F (9C) until fermentation nearly stops, about 10 to 14 
days, rack to secondary and reduce temperature 4F (2C) per day to 32F 
(0C).  Lager six to seven weeks.

FIRST WORT HOPPING

A lost and recently rediscovered German hopping technique from a 
hundred years ago, first wort hopping (FWH), works very well in CAPs. 
While I have found no direct evidence of this technique being used in 
the United States, American brewers of this time were largely German 
born or educated, or at least strongly German influenced, and it 
seems likely that it was used here.  George Fix first reported the 
German research, which was published in Brauwelt in 1995, to the 
homebrewing community on HBD in 1996.

In this procedure, normal late addition or aroma hops are instead 
added to the first wort as soon as the kettle bottom is covered, and 
kept at runoff temperature (about 176F) during the entire time of 
runoff.  These hops are then left in the kettle for the entire boil 
along with normal bittering hops.  Hop oil constituents are bound in 
a complex manner with other wort constituents resulting in "a fine, 
unobtrusive hop aroma; a more harmonic beer; a more uniform 
bitterness" than control pilsners with conventional aroma hop 
additions, according to the professional taste panels, which 
preferred the FWH beer overwhelmingly. I feel it gives enhanced hop 
flavor as well.

As expected, since these additional hops stayed in the boil along 
with the bittering hops, this resulted in greater measured 
bitterness.  However, it was not perceived by the taste panels as 
more bitter but rather as a fine, mild bitterness without any 
harshness that might be present in an overhopped beer.  For this 
reason, bittering hops should not be reduced.
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 12:26:13 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: CAP and cream ale recipes (part 2)

TRADITIONAL AMERICAN "DOUBLE MASH"

American brewers more than a hundred years ago realized that domestic 
barley had an excess of protein and that corn and rice, with their 
low protein levels, could be used to advantage.  However, corn and 
rice starches don't gelatinize at mash temperatures, and so aren't 
available to the malt enzymes for conversion into sugars. Boiling the 
cereal gelatinizes the starch, but then you have cooked rice or 
cornmeal mush, and those are hard to handle in a brewery, and when 
they cool, they become really stiff and hard to move or incorporate 
into the mash.  The secret turned out to be malt.  By adding a small 
amount of malt to the cereal and mashing a short time before cooking, 
the cereals become quite thin and stay that way.

The practice one hundred years ago was to use 30% malt by weight, 
which I still do, despite current practice of using only 10%.  In a 
kitchen pot with lid, mash about five ounces of malt for every pound 
of corn meal, grits, polenta, or coarsely ground rice.  Use about a 
quart and a half of treated mash water per pound of corn, two quarts 
for rice. Rest at about 153 F (67C) for 20 minutes in a preheated 
oven or wrap well in a blanket, then bring to a boil on the stove or 
your brewery burner.

Rice and corn meal should be cooked covered about 30 minutes; grits 
or polenta 45 minutes to an hour.  Stir as you bring them up to a 
boil and occasionally during the boil, adding more water if 
necessary.  It's best not to overcook rice, but corn can be cooked 
longer for more flavor and color reactions to take place in the 
cooker if you want these.

Meanwhile, you have started the main, or malt mash, and timed it so 
that just as the cereal mash is done, it is time to boost the 
temperature of the main mash.  It's best to plan this ahead on paper.


 -=-=-=-=-=-


NO BREW FRIDGE?  BREW A CACA!

That's HBDer Paul Shick's "unfortunate acronym" for what he calls 
Classic American Cream Ale.  Nineteenth century ale brewers, seeing 
their sales drop as the public's taste changed to pale, clear, 
effervescent lagers, but lacking refrigeration and aging facilities, 
developed a beer brewed like a pilsner, but fermented as an ale. 
These were called "present use" or cream ales, and they have evolved 
into today's cream ales just as pilsners evolved, but the few 
remaining cream ales today bear only a fleeting resemblance to their 
ancestors.

The same advantages those ale brewers exploited can be yours today. 
A CACA is a fine, enjoyable beer, and you'll be partaking of history. 
Ferment the beer with ale yeast at cellar temperatures and age it as 
cool as you can manage.  This is an ale that can be served at 45 F 
(7C), where chill haze can be a problem, so if that bothers you, 
consider using Polyclar (R) at the end of fermentation.

This brew has another advantage if you find liquid yeast and starters 
daunting - there are now some fine dry ale yeasts available. 
(Quality dry true lager yeasts are on the near horizon.)  Shick 
reports good success with Danstar Nottingham, but I find it a little 
too attenuative for my tastes.  I've found Windsor nice - it finishes 
richer.

Wyeast 1056 American Ale or White Labs WPL001 California Ale is a 
natural choice in liquid yeasts as they are reputedly the old 
Ballantine Ale yeast; White Labs WPL008 East Coast Ale would give 
less attenuation for a softer, creamier ale.  I've liked the results 
with Wyeast 1098 British, and Yeast Culture Kit Co.'s Canadian 
(Molson) ale yeast gives a remarkable and distinctive Canadian 
character.  The very clean fermenting White Labs WLP029 German 
Ale/Kolsch yeast would be another excellent choice, producing not so 
much of a cream ale as a pseudo-lager.

- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 13:01:02 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: fruit beer / what to do to help

CMEBREW at aol.com (what's your name, btw?) asks about a fruit beer:

> a gal of blackberry wine base to be added to a five gal batch. 

My $.02 is that this will end up being quite alcoholic and dry.  The
fruit character might be nice, but you'll end up with a thin and out of
balance beer.  

Some dextrin malt can provide the body to avoid that problem.

I could answer the question better if I knew how much wine a gallon of
wine base makes.  If its a concentrate, then you may be making some
fruit/malt sherry - break out the champagne yeast!
- ---------
As far as what we can do to help-

The key is avoiding recriminations and extremism is all areas.  We don't
assume all Christians are nutballs just because somebody firebombs an
abortion clinic.  

Our local bloodbank has actually requested that if you haven't donated
blood yet, you might give your local blood bank a break by waiting 3 or
4 weeks.  At present, so many people have donated that the supply may be
tight when the current donations are used and everyone who donated in
the last week is still ineligible. 

Dave Harsh                              Bloatarian Brewing League
Cincinnati, OH



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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 22:33:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Swiped from another forum

This came from Brews & Views, but I liked it so much, I thought
I'd swipe it and repost here...


An open letter to a terrorist: 

Well, you hit the World Trade Center, but you missed America.
You hit the Pentagon, but you missed America. You used helpless
American bodies, to take out other American bodies, but like a
poor marksman, you STILL missed America.

Why? Because of something you guys will never understand.
America isn't about a building or two, not about financial
centers, not about military centers, America isn't about a
place, America isn't even about a bunch of bodies. America is
about an IDEA. An idea, that you can go someplace where you can
earn as much as you can figure out how to, live for the most
part, like you envisioned living, and pursue Happiness. (No
guarantees that you'll reach it, but you can sure try!)

Go ahead and whine your terrorist whine, and chant your
terrorist litany: "If you can not see my point, then feel my
pain." This concept is alien to Americans. We live in a country
where we don't have to see your point. But you're free to have
one. We don't have to listen to your speech.  But you're free to
say one. Don't know where you got the strange idea that everyone
has to agree with you. We don't agree with each other in this
country, almost as a matter of pride. We're a collection of guys
that don't agree, called States. We united our individual states
to protect ourselves from tyranny in the world. Another idea, we
made up on the spot. You CAN make it up as you go, when it's
your country.

If you're free enough. 

Yeah, we're fat, sloppy, easy-going goofs most of the time.
That's an unfortunate image to project to the world, but it
comes of feeling free and easy about the world you live in. It's
unfortunate too, because people start to forget that when you
attack Americans, they tend to fight like a cornered badger. The
first we knew of the War of 1812, was when England burned
Washington D.C. to the ground. Didn't turn out like England
thought it was going to, and it's not going to turn out like you
think, either. Sorry, but you're not the first bully on our
shores, just the most recent.

No Marquis of Queensbury rules for Americans, either. We were
the FIRST and so far, only country in the world to use nuclear
weapons in anger.  Horrific idea, nowadays? News for you bucko,
it was back then too, but we used it anyway. Only had two of
them in the whole world and we used 'em both. Grandpa Jones
worked on the Manhattan Project. Told me once, that right up
until they threw the switch, the physicists were still arguing
over whether the Uranium alone would fission, or whether it
would start a fissioning chain reaction that would eat
everything. But they threw the switch anyway, because we had a
War to win. Does that tell you something about American Resolve?

So who just declared War on us? It would be nice to point to
some real estate, like the good old days. Unfortunately, we're
probably at war with random camps, in far-flung places. Who
think they're safe. Just like the Barbary Pirates did. Better
start sleeping with one eye open.

There's a spirit that tends to take over people who come to this
country, looking for opportunity, looking for liberty, looking
for freedom.  Even if they misuse it. The Marielistas that
Castro emptied out of his prisons, were overjoyed to find out
how much freedom there was. First thing they did when they hit
our shores, was run out and buy guns. The ones that didn't end
up dead, ended up in prisons. It was a big PITA then especially
in south Florida), but you're only the newest PITA, not the
first.

You guys seem to be incapable of understanding that we don't
live in America, America lives in US! American Spirit is what
it's called. And killing a few thousand of us, or a few million
of us, won't change it. Most of the time, it's a pretty
happy-go-lucky kind of Spirit. Until we're crossed in a cowardly
manner, then it becomes an entirely different kind of Spirit.
Wait until you see what we do with that Spirit, this time.

Sleep tight, if you can. We're coming. 


- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 06:07:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: brewer at cotse.com
Subject: Decoction Mashing Pale Malt

  Even though pale malt is generally fully modified, are 
  there any taste/flavor benefits to be gained from decoction 
  mashing?  Are there any drawbacks to decoction mashing 
  highly modified pale malt?

  I actually tried this, decoction mashing a batch immediately 
  after infusion mashing the same receipe.  They came out about 
  the same but I'm not yet good enough to get reliably the same 
  results in this sort of test.  Actually, the single decoction 
  process isn't all that much more difficult and would be 
  worth it if it yields superior results.

  Thanks for anything,

  Jake



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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:32:21 
From: "John Biggins" <bignz721 at hotmail.com>
Subject: ** PLEASE READ ** Re: NYC Disaster

Up until 3 months ago, I have been a lifetime resident of New York and have 
recently moved to Madison, Wisconsin from Manhattan. A dear friend of mine 
has lost a loved-one in the attack. He was a firefighter whose entire 
company was lost in the Trade Center collapse. He leaves a behind a wife and 
3 young daughters. He is one of the many who ran toward the devastation out 
of selfless duty.

There has been a lot of discussion about what we can do to help.  I, alone, 
by going to 3 different brewpubs and passing around an empty pitcher was 
able to raise over $1000 alone!  All donations are drops in the 
bucket...disposable income.  If you can spend $3-4 on a beer, you can give 
at least a couple bucks for the effort.  I wholeheartedly encourage everyone 
to initiate a similar method in collaboration with you local bars.  Putting 
a box at the entrance or end of the bar is not enough.  If you directly walk 
around and ask each person, you'd be surprised at out much you can get.  All 
those drops in the bucket created 4 pitchers-full of $$$ totalling over 
$1000.

In this vain, I have another suggestion.  Beer Auctions.  When I departed 
NYC, I brought along w/ me a selection of unique beer.  One of these is the 
now defunct Commonwealth Brewery's Cherry Lambic.  This is the 2000 GABF 
Gold Medal winner, so there is no better, and because Commonwealth no longer 
exists, there is no more of this left..

I am auctioning off two 750 mL bottle of this.  All I ask is that the 
winning bids be sent to me, payable to "The New York Firefighters 9-11 
Disaster Relief Fund" (tax-deductible -- see http://daily.iaff.org/fund.htm 
for details), and a bottle is yours.  This, of course, is dependent on how 
UPS and such ship beer now after shipping regulations have changed.

Thank you.

My email is jbbiggins at pharmacy.wisc.edu

- -----
John B. Biggins
Cornell University
Weill Graduate School of Medical Sciences
Student -- Dept. of Pharmacology

Laboratory for Biosynthetic Chemistry
School of Pharmacy; Pharmaceutical Sciences Division
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Lab:  (608)232-3869
http://www.ski.edu/thorson
http://www.pharmacy.wisc.edu

        "Science like Nature, must also be tamed
            With a view towards its preservation.
        Given the same state of integrity
             It will surly serve us well."
            -- Neil Peart; Natural Science (III) -- Permanent Waves





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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:27:31 -0400
From: "Peter Garofalo" <pgarofa1 at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: A Suggestion

In light of the recent insanity, several folks have asked what we as a
community of homebrewers can do. As usual, Pat Babcock replied simply and
effectively with some excellent suggestions, as did a few others. The
question was asked , however, what we can do as a group that might separate
us from others (or so I read it). I have a suggestion.

Donate blood. Then, sign up to do it seven weeks later. Keep it up, and
you'll be performing an ongoing good deed. How does this relate to
homebrewers? Well, think of it as giving up a pint of your finest. We all
deal in that ancient unit of measure (sorry, folks, liters just don't cut it
here...). It's not so hard to make it a continuing commitment, as many folks
do. I believe that fewer than 5 % of those eligible actually donate blood,
and few of those are regulars. In my area (and perhaps in others), the Red
Cross recognizes regular donors as members of the "sixers club" -- those who
have donated six times during the past year. My three sixers club pins are
more significant to me than any ribbon or trophy I've won in homebrew
competitions.

Cheers,

Peter Garofalo
4-gallon donor
Syracuse, NY



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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:34:09
From: "Bob \"Now go have a beer\" Paolino" <nowgohaveabeer at brewingnews.com>
Subject: A farewell gathering at Egan Brewing Company

The sad news in the Wisconsin brewing community is that
Egan Brewing Company (DePere, Wisconsin, just outside of
Green Bay) will be closing at the end of this month.  

I've enjoyed Richard "BeerIsMyLife" Stueven's great beers 
(and Greg Nash's fine beers before that) on numerous occasions
and have enjoyed the comfortable atmosphere in the pub on the
other side of the glass from the brewhouse from time to time. 
I plan to go there for a final visit next Saturday (22 September)
and at least a couple of us from the Madison Homebrewers and 
Tasters Guild will be there.  I've contacted the Green Bay Rackers
(the local club, to which Richard and his predecessor Greg Nash 
have been quite homebrewer-friendly) to see if any of them would be 
interested in an "inter-club" get together as part of a "thank-you"
to Richard and Paris.

But it occurred to me, "why just Green Bay and Madison
beer geeks?" I post this as an invitation to anyone in
Wisconsin, da U.P., Illinois, Minnesota, or anyone else 
who considers him/herself within easy travel distance of
Green Bay to spend a Saturday at Egan with like-minded beerfolk.
Even if you've never been to the brewery before--perhaps
ESPECIALLY if you've never been before because this'll be 
just about your last chance--consider a trip to Green Bay
on Saturday to enjoy some great beers, to thank Richard,
to hang out with other homebrewers/beergeeks.  The fun starts
early-to-mid afternoon or whenever you get there.  I know
that this is close to last-minute notice, but if you don't
have other plans for Saturday you might want to consider it.

For those who may be interested, there is also a beer 
dinner that evening.  Details: http://eganbrewing.com
http://beerismylife.com

Now go have a beer, eh?


Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino
Columnist, Great Lakes Brewing News
Member, North American Guild of Beer Writers
    Winner (Silver), 2000 Quill and Tankard Awards, Travel Feature
Great Lakes Brewing News advertising information: 800.474.7291




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---