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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Force Carbonation (Ant Hayes)
  way of sparging (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Re: stuck fermentation? (Steven S)
  What ever happened to........ ("David Craft")
  Scary Bugs ("Bret Mayden")
  Rennerian Montreal (Alex Enkerli)
  Parti Gyle and hops ("Steven Parfitt")
  Raspberry Pale Ale ("Berggren, Stefan")
  beering, bearing (Rolf Karlsson)
  UNC chemists figure out what causes =?iso-8859-1?Q?=91skunky=20beer=92?= (Marc Sedam)
  Re: Stuck fermentation? (Jeff Renner)
  Burradoo Is The centre, Who Cares Where Jeff Is? ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Re: relationship between sparge temp and sparge time? (tidmarshm)
  LPG ("The Clark's")
  Sudden laziness (Michael Gier)
  Propane & Mixed Drinks ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  Propane vs LPG ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
   ("Ryan Case")
  beer distance ("Leroy Strohl, iii")
  Re: n/a beer (Nathan Matta)
  Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day ("Gary Glass")
  Bacterial Resistance ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Teeshirt voting (Pat Babcock)
  Sparge auf Deutch? ("Crouch, Kevin E")


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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:51:29 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Force Carbonation

I was at a wine tasting class last night, and the old story of Champagne
bubbles being smaller than force carbonated wine bubble came up. My
understanding of force carbonation is that bubble size is a function of
how slowly the gas was dissolved, the size of the holes in the
carbonation stone, and how long the carbonated liquid is left to settle.
CAMRA seem to think otherwise. Can you get tiny bubble by force
carbonation?

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg; South Africa
[13 656; 125] distance in km; true bearing


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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:07:26 +0200
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: way of sparging

Hello,
Was the following question already answered in the past? If so, sorry I
missed it. If not: 
is it, to prevent leaching the husks, better (just before the grainbed falls
dry) to pour all the sparge water OR split up the sparge water in ??
portions OR to sprinkle the sparge water with the same speed as the wort
flows off?
In the last case (my opinion) the wort in the top of the grain bed will get
below 1.010, while the bottom of the grain bed contents a lot of sugar and
so the final wort will contain unwanted components from the husks.
Copied from the book of Narziss:
                        first wort --1st sparge-- 2d sparge-- 3rd sparge--
total wort
extract %         16.3 ----------13.9 -------------5.3 -------------1.6
- ---------10.2
s.g.                  1.067-------- 1.056---------- 1.021 ----------1.006
- -------1.041
pH                     5.69 ----------5.74----------- 5.99------------ 6.35
- ----------5.81
color EBC         7.8------------ 5.6------------- 3.2-------------
2.2------------- 5
nitrogen            177----------- 147------------ 59--------------
22------------ 108
polyphenols      236---------- 200------------- 79--------------
37------------- 151
anthocyanogenen 80 ---------78------------ 117------------- 222------------
72
mineralcontent in 100 g extract after sparging: 
extract %                 16.59-- 7.95--- 3.82--- 1.62--- 0.74
ashes (mg)              1130-- 1420-- 1760-- 2610-- 4280
SiO2 (mg)                 103--- 142----- 195---- 550---1315
P2O5 (mg)                590--- 637----- 664---- 756--- 850
anthocyanogenen     250-- 100------ 160---- 222 
Greetings from Holland (Europe), Hans Aikema
http://www.hopbier.myweb.nl/



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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 06:25:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: Re: stuck fermentation?



What works for me is give that carboy a good old shakin'.

I had a dunkel which seemed to peter out. I read somewhere getting the
yeast off the bottom and resuspended in the beer/wort can sometimes get
them going again. Maybe someone "in the know" would care to comment on
the scientific aspects of this? If that fails then repitching would work
too. 



 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net
	[580.2, 181.4] Rennerian ::: Lilburn (Atlanta) GA

"Dictators ride to and fro upon tigers which they dare not dismount. 
And the tigers are getting hungry." Winston Churchill - 1937







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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 08:17:19 -0400
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
Subject: What ever happened to........


Good old Latitude and Longitude


David B. Craft

43.5 east, 26.4 North



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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:46:36 +0000
From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at hotmail.com>
Subject: Scary Bugs

Kudos to Alan Meeker & Kevin Crouch for their very interesting &
truly
informative posts on viruses & bacteria.  I really learned
something there.
But now I'm scared.  The toughness of these organisms leaves me
wondering if
all the sanitizing I do is simply paving the way for a new
strain of super
bug.  Bleach, idophor, StarSan, acid, blowtorch -- each method
kills off a
certain percentage of the microscopic population, leaving behind
a few
wounded but resilient survivors.  They recover & multiply, and
are soon
laughing at my feeble attempts to eradicate them.  "Stupid
human!  We have
been here since the dawn of life.  You truly believe you can
defeat us? Ha!
You amuse us!"  Soon they march forth from the crevices of my
fermenter, the
scratches of my racking cane.  All my worts turn to vats of
toxic waste.
Bottled beers become bottles of mouthwash.    Aaaaggghhh!!!
Maybe I should
take up knitting....

Bret A. Mayden
Oklahoma City, OK
brmayden at hotmail.com




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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:00:55 -0500
From: Alex Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Rennerian Montreal

Hello folks.
According to Brian Levetzow's calculator, my BD Rennerian coordinates 
in kilometres are [62.8, 893.3]. I might use them in non-HBD posts 
just to see if people notice... As George Fergusson sounds like a 
trustable source on surveying, the BD coordinates seem adequate and 
because I live in Montreal, where drinking beer while walking down 
the street is illegal (except for public events), I chose to go 
metric...
Speaking of beer-drinking in Montreal streets, I'd like to know from 
other Montreal HBDers. There's a few Montreal HB resources on the Net 
but meeting more local HBers is always fun.

Brew good!

Alex Enkerli
[62.8, 893.3] BD Rennerian
6009 de Chateaubriand
Montreal, Qc  H2S 2N3
Canada
(514)277-0715
- -- 



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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:24:29 -0400
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Parti Gyle and hops

On several occasions I have done Parti Gyle (sp) brewing, and hate to 
discard the hops from the first beer. I tried leaving them in for one batch, 
and made the mistake of adding too much bittering hops in addition to the 
hops that were still in the kettle. Needless to say it was truly BITTER!

Does anyone have any guidelines for using the hops left inthe kettle for a 
second beer? I hate digging all the hops out and cleaning the kettle before 
the second beer.

I figure the original bittering hops were pretty well shot after a 90 minute 
goil. Do I count the Aroma and Flavor hops as if they were bittering 
additions and ignore the time they were already int he kettle?

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian

"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck




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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 08:28:49 -0500
From: "Berggren, Stefan" <stefan_berggren at trekbike.com>
Subject: Raspberry Pale Ale

Greetings, 

With the onset of fall, I have been brewing more and have decided that I
would like to add a Raspberry pale ale to the list.  With so many
recommendations as how to go about using fruit in a pale ale, I am starting
to get confused.  What is the proper way to utilize raspberry in a pale ale?
Do I use frozen berries, pureee, or juice?  Do I add to secondary, steep in
the wort, add to both primary and secondary?  Can pectin enzyme, used to
reduce haze, be used in beer?  Any recipes or information concerning
raspberry pale ales would be greatly appreciated.  

P.s.  I am extract brewing, as all of my all-grain is stuck in storage,
until the basement is finished.....


Stefan Berggren
Trek Bicycle Corporation
Engineering Test Lab/Standards Development
801 West Madison
Waterloo, WI 53594
1.800.313.8735 ext 2203
920.478.9640 FAX
stefan_berggren at trekbike.com
 






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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:43:53 -0400
From: Rolf Karlsson <bz4n8v at naeng.gm.com>
Subject: beering, bearing

As an engineering student I was subjected to numerous math
courses. I seem to remember polar coordinates having the form of
distance, bearing (r, theta). Maybe map surveying is the other
way around, but my vote is for this format, which would put me
(in Grand Blanc, MI, roughly 44 miles North of Ann Arbor) at
[44.2, 9.3] Rennerian.

As for beer as a rough distance unit, given the questionable
legality of strolling cross-country with open containers, I
would suggest starting with some simple guesswork such as
walking at about 2mph while drinking a homebrew, and taking
somewhere between 5 and 15 minutes to empty 12 oz. There will be
a lot more variation in individual person's "beers" than
"smokes," I fear, since a performance-oriented individual could
probably chug a beer in less than a minute while jogging at
5mph. How long could a guy keep that up while maintaining a
straight line, though? My estimates are for a comfortable pace,
and yield 3 beers to the mile. Perhaps some intrepid soul with a
treadmill in his basement can verify or modify some of my
guesswork, but in the meantime, I put my Beerennerian
coordinates (excluding pit-stops) at roughly [132.6, 9.3]. How
one would carry 133 beers to measure this hike is pretty much
irrelevant since it wouldn't be legal in the first place, but
homebrewers would know how to find me, by God!

Next thing you know, somebody will try to define the bearing
part of the system by how many beers you have to drink to get
the room to spin that far... no, wait, I was only kidding!

Rolf Karlsson
- -- 
"Hey, mighty brontosaurus, don't you have a lesson for us?"
        -The Police, "Walking In Your Footsteps"


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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:46:23 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: UNC chemists figure out what causes =?iso-8859-1?Q?=91skunky=20beer=92?=

Yup...I work here.

http://www.unc.edu/news/newsserv/research/forbes101801.htm
- --
RED CROSS DISASTER RELIEF FUND
http://www.redcross.org/donate/donate.html

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:00:20 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck fermentation?

Gary Krone <gkrone at execpc.com> wrote from Kenosha, WI:

>I brewed a batch of Robust Porter last week and activity in the airlock
>started like crazy the next day.  After that it stopped cold.  I just
>checked the SG and it is at 1.020.  OG was 1.046  at  80 degrees.  Should I
>pitch another batch of yeast into it to get the SG down closer to the
>recommended FG of 1.012?  Or should I just rack into into the secondary and
>let it go?

I would guess that this is in the top five most frequently posed 
problems on HBD.  It can be a tough one to answer.  first of all, we 
need to know what went into your wort?  If it was extract, which kind 
(Laaglander is notorious for finishing high)?  If grain, which ones 
and what mash temperatures (crystal and Munich malts finish high, and 
mashing at higher tmeps ditto)?

Under-pitching and under-oxygenation of wort are two other common 
contributors to this problem, and repitching fresh, active yeast 
might help.  So might rousing.

Most often, brewers end up just bottling and drinking such a beer, 
which is usually at least drinkable, and keeping track of the bottles 
in case the beer ferments in the bottles and become potential bottle 
grenades.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:25:19 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Burradoo Is The centre, Who Cares Where Jeff Is?

Pat Babcock writes:
>To this end, I propose that we refer to the coordinates in our
>system as APPARENT Rennerian, pointing to his domicile. >I'm sure Jeff
>would prefer this to his imminent and untimely demise - an >event required
>to mack ACTUAL Rennerian a static number.

If you don't have a reference lat and long to Burradoo, nor even a
place/bearing/distance to the same, what significance is any person's
domicile?

It was established long ago that Burradoo is the centre of all matters
associated with brewing (or motorcycle riding, ute driving or just rootin
tootin beer swilling fun)

Why would we give a two penny squat regarding the whereabouts of Mr Jeff
Renner? Ever since his failure to make it from the Burradoo train station to
the Pool table, he has been excluded from any geographical calculations we
may have once considered.

Brewing is alive and well in Burradoo, despite my new role as a jobless bum
(something I always aspired to).

Actually, thank you to those who asked about my well being. I am back in the
air again and not really a jobless bum at all. Jill was going to murder me
if I didn't get back to flying one way or the other. She didn't see the
humour in having me at home every day. Funny that, she loves my beer but
can't stand my company!

Maybe I'll take a visit to Jeff's place after all. What were those
coordinates again?

Cheers
Phil





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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:28:12 -0400
From: tidmarshm at home.com
Subject: Re: relationship between sparge temp and sparge time?

Jeff writes pedantically of the OED definition of 'sparge': "it's from 
Latin "spargere," to sprinkle, and refers to the water you add."

The OED also lists sparge as a verb, to add water, and as we all know, 
in a lauter tun of finite size, you can't add water without at some 
point draining, so by association, sparging does seem to refer to the 
entire process of rinsing sugars from the grain bed, e.g., "He, too, 
sparges for small beer with hot liquor." (1885); and as a verbal 
(apparently referring to a batch-sparge system) "The only serious 
objection to the sparging system is the loss of time by the successive 
drainages" (1839).

Remember also that the OED is a historical dictionary and that its 
purpose is descriptive rather than prescriptive. It merely describes 
how a word has been used in the past and does not provide rules for 
how words should be used in the fiture (though obviously past usage is 
an important consideration if you want to be understood).

Note also that the examples in the OED are all 19th C usages. Language 
changes, and an appropriate use 100 years or more ago may not be 
appropriate now. Modern usage here (and I suspect elsewhere) makes 
sparge more or less synonymous with lauter, with sparge usu. a verb or 
noun ('stuck sparge') and lauter usu. an adjective ('lauter tun.') 
Sooner or later the OED will catch up, and eventually others equally 
pedantic though chronologically distant will be arguing about the 
proper use of 'sparge' to refer to the process of rinsing sugars out 
of the grain bed.

more pedantcally than Jeff,
Tidmarsh Major
Birmigham, Ala.


- --
Pop3Now Personal, Get quick remote access to your email accounts!
Sign Up Now!  Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal



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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:31:23 -0400
From: "The Clark's" <rtclark at citynet.net>
Subject: LPG

As someone else has already pointed out, LPG stands for Liquified Petroleum
Gas.   It may contain both propane and butane.

Natural gas is mostly methane which is C1H4:
(one carbon atom and four hydrogen atoms in each molecule) Propane is C3H8
(3 carbon, 8 hydrogen).  Butane is C4H10.

Another form is cyclopropane which has the carbon atoms arranged into a
circle, thus C3H6. They used to use this stuff as an anesthetic.

Methane or natural gas is considerably lighter than air and will ready float
upward and escape into the atmosphere where it will be diluted to below it's
flammable concentration when mixed with air.

Propane and butane are both heavier than air and will seek the lowest point
they can reach.  They both may then just lay there for a considerable time
before becoming sufficiently mixed with air to be diluted below their
flammablility range.

The following numbers are quoted from memory and may not be exact.  However
for the purpose of this discussion, they are accurate enough to convey their
meaning.

Propane boils at, I believe, -165 degrees F.
Butane boils at approximately 30 degrees F.
This is very significant....   If you are travelling in the south and have
your tank filled with butane, then go back up north, your tank may not have
any pressure on it even though it may be nearly full. (If the temperature is
below 30 degrees F.)

Propane expands some 570 times in volume when it is converted from a liquid
to a gas.   For this reason never operate a tank in any position other than
the position in which it was meant to be used.   If a portable bottle is
laid on it's side, it may discharge liquid propane rather than gas.  As you
can see from the expansion ratio above, you would have a lot more fire than
you want; especially if you are in your basement.    When using gas from a
tank, the temperature of the tank will drop.   If gas is removed fast
enough, it may actualy form frost on the tank.    When using your big
burner, splash a little water over your tank.  You will be able to tell the
level of the liquid in the tank by the condensation on the colder portion of
the tank.

Also, when releasing propane from a tank into the air, if you can see it,
you are discharging liquid.  The gas is invisible.   A tank must never be
filled completely full of liquid.   Law requires that a certain amount of
head space be allowed for expansion.   Even then, the safety relief valve on
a tank may release gas if the tank is legally filled and the temperature is
dramatically increased.  The liquid expands in direct relationship with it's
absolute temperature.

All of the above gases must be mixed with an appropriate amount of air
before they can be ignited.  I will not quote ratios here because I don't
remember them that well but, they are in a relatively narrow range.
However, once ignition begins, all these rules change dramatically with the
increase in temperature.  This is how you can blow a match out with propane
coming from a small tank such as is used for a propane torch for soldering,
etc.

Portable tanks with a capacity greater than one pound should never be taken
indoors.   This is the law in many jurisdictions.  This is not a capricious
law, but is based on sound judgement.  It is legal and common to have a tank
outdoors and plumb the propane indoors to your point of use.

Indoors, I would strongly recommend both a CO alarm device and a flammable
gas detector.  My mortorhome has both, as well as a smoke alarm.  The
flamamble gas alarm sensor should be mounted near the floor.

I believe the laws of physics work the same down under, but I have never had
any first hand experience there.

'nuff sed..

Tom Clark



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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:32:37 -0500
From: Michael Gier <MGier at CONTDISC.com>
Subject: Sudden laziness

On Monday, Gary Krone wrote:
I brewed a batch of Robust Porter last week and activity in the airlock 
started like crazy the next day.  After that it stopped cold.  
*******

Wow - I have the exact same problem. I realize I'm just a newbie, but I'm
going to bother you all with my little problem anyway. :-)

I'm brewing an American Amber ale from extracts, and everything seemed to be
smurfy. The primary fermenter started burping like mad within 8 hours after
pitching Munton's ale yeast, but then by 30 hours it inexplicably "stopped
cold". I went ahead and racked to secondary at three days, but I was
surprised how much gunk there was in there (hop pellet leftovers, irish
moss, and ??etc??). 

Gravities	Expected		Measured
Original	1.048 (I think)	Right around there
3 days	??			1.015
Final		1.008-012		N/A

So did I contaminate it somehow (easy enough to believe)? Should I just toss
it now and pretend it never happened?

Thanks for helping an infant,

Michael Gier
Kansas City, MO
[600.6, 249.5 Rennerian (inverted)]
"Mmmmmm... Beer." -- Homer Simpson


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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 08:58:11 -0700
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: Propane & Mixed Drinks

Hi,
  I've seen the discussion about using propane indoors & I'd like to better
understand what the issues are.  I have about a 4# propane tank that I use.
I store it in the garage, but set up the burner on my kitchen counter.
Since it heats up the kitchen, I open the window, but the window isn't that
big.  I understand there's a concern of bringing a cold tank in from the
garage, but didn't catch the reason.  Also, I've read there's issues with
the propane pooling in low places, but if the burner is lit, isn't it
burning off the propane so it shouldn't be a problem?

  On a completely unrelated topic, I was talking to another homebrewer about
mixed beer drinks (Snakebite, Raddler, etc).  He said he likes to make a
drink of 2 parts wort, straight from the lauter tun, & 1 part whiskey.  I've
asked around a bit, but noone has ever heard about this.  He says it has a
similar affect as the Raddler, the wort cuts the strong alcohol taste & the
alcohol cuts the strong sweet taste.  Has anyone else tried this?

Thanks,
Nils Hedglin
Sacramento, CA


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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:13:59 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Propane vs LPG

Mike wrote:

>Working in a refinery that makes propane, among many other products, I ask
>one of the chemists about this. LPG is liquid petroleum gas not liquid
>propane gas. Propane, butane and others are LPG. Propane is more damgerous
>then some and less dangerous than other LPGs. 

Well that explains it.  Depends upon the use (or misuse) of the acronym.
Now that Mike mentions it, I think I remember LPG being used in this context
but it's been overshadowed by advertisements and literature for gas grills
and their accessories using the term LPG when referring specifically to
propane.  America, land of the acronym, IMHO ;-)

Glen A. Pannicke

glen at pannicke.net          http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F  214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts
and those who harbor them." - President G. W. Bush



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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:38:05 -0700
From: "Ryan Case" <jcase at wrv.com>
Subject: 

And I'm back. (For those of you at work where the big, evil, corporate,
monster has removed your sound cards by the roots, that was a fan fair. For
those of you with sound that know that I am lying, please play along my head
shrink says it will help.)  I posted about two weeks ago for the first time
with a request for feedback before attempting my first all-grain batch. I
would like to take this chance to say that I am a member of about a half a
dozen different online forums ranging from martial arts to bible study and
the members of the hbd came through with support and suggestions like no
others I have encountered... My hat is off to the members of the hbd. I told
a few of you that I would post my experience and here goes. I don't have a
hydrometer so I won't be giving the measurements that so many of you seem to
be caught up in. I had an actually pleasant first all-grain experience. The
only snafu that I ran into was my attempt at mashing on my stove. I had a
hard time regulating temperature. At one point I think that I scorched some
of my grains. I didn't recirculate long enough before starting the sparge
either. So I was a bit concerned about fermentables to start with. I had
about two days of decent action in the primary. Left it for two more days
and moved it into a secondary. What I have noticed is, that while small,
there is definately still action in the secondary and the escaping co2
smells like beer. It will be two weeks on Friday and I am going to prime and
bottle then. I had a brew shop in Tacoma convert an amber recipe to all
grain for me so I am not sure about what the ten pounds of grain I used was.
At this point in my career I am more concerned about getting all the
processes right. The color I am happy with. But starting the sparge too soon
yielded a very cloudy brew. I would greatly appreciate any tricks of the
trade for clearing it up. I am not trying to win any contests, but am rather
trying to get a system down that works for me for making a brew that I am
happy with.As far as the mash problem goes, I have been online looking at
many different systems for brewing. I design plumbing, electrical, lp, and
exteriors for Western Recreational Vehicles in Yakima WA. (Alpenlite,
Western Wilderness, Travellite, Dreamer...) I have already started plans for
a three vessel, three burner system with all the bells and whistles, but
will continue to fight the stove until all the parts are accumulated. My
second batch (a porter) went much more smoothly a week later. I would like
to thank all of you for your previous and future advice.

James Case
Sr. Design Specialist
Western Recreational Vehicles
Yakima, WA (1817.8, 279.2 Rennerian)
jcase at wrv.com
casehery at home.com

"Dammit Jim, we're not in college anymore, it's time to do it right!"





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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:52:13 -0400
From: "Leroy Strohl, iii" <lstrohl at mwc.edu>
Subject: beer distance

Surely someone on the list is a member of a Hash House
 Harrier group and could give us their guidance on the beer-
to-distance conundrum. Over the years I have run as a 
guest at three H3 groups. All shared the "running club with
a drinking problem" spirit and dedication. I think the 
courses, not counting false trails, tended to be concluded in
an hour to an hour-and-a-half and probably were about six
to seven miles.
Roy Strohl
Fredericksburg, VA



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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:31:56 -0400
From: Nathan Matta <whatsa at MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: n/a beer

Larry Bristol writes:

"This is going to seem wierd, but my understanding is that it is ILLEGAL
  for a homebrewer to attempt this!
 ...
The fine point of the law is that you must be licensed if you want to
extract alcohol from naturally fermented beverages.  It does not matter
what you intent to do with that alcohol, even if it is your intent to
discard it.  It is illegal to do so without a license."

I have two opinions on this.  First, only the most bass-ackward of police
departments would bother to prosecute this, even if it is illegal.  Second,
I think the fine legal point of "extracting alcohol" would only come up
if you were collecting the alcohol.  As long as you were using a heat
bath to drive the alcohol out of the beer without collecting the vapor
I don't think this would be an issue.  The vacuum method, however, might
automatically collect the vapor, and would then possibly be open to legal
attack.

Nathan
========================================
Nathan Matta
Fuzzy Beer Home Brewery
Randolph, MA, USA



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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:49:14 -0600
From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org>
Subject: Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day

Just another friendly reminder...

Brewers it's time to spread the love!  November 3 is the American
Homebrewers Association's 3rd Annual Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day.

Just think of all those poor souls who have never experienced the joy of
homebrewing...well the weekend of November 3 is the time to do something
about it!  Grab friends, family, the neighbors, random pets, whoever and
teach them to brew.  Take 'em to the local homebrew supply shop and
introduce them to the owner and get your ingredients.  Then brew up a tasty
batch of homebrew while of course sharing some of your own homebrew.

By bring new brewers into the fold, we ensure the vitality of the
hobby--er, way of life--of homebrewing.  When we welcome new brewers into
the hobby, the entire beer community improves. The local homebrew shop gets
more business and can provide fresher ingredients and better equipment
selection. The local homebrew club has more potential members. And the
brewing community receives more experienced, knowledgeable beer enthusiasts
who can spread the word and point others toward better beer.

For details and to register your site see
www.beertown.org/AHA/teachbrew/teachday.htm.

If you register your site by the time I get into the office (approx. 8am
MDT) on Thursday October 25, I'll send your site some copies of the AHA's
new 24 page how to brew guide: Zymurgy for Beginners.

Cheers!

Gary Glass--Boulder, CO
[1126.8, 262] Rennerian

Project Coordinator
Association of Brewers
888-U-CAN-BREW
Voice: (303) 447-0816 x 121
Fax: (303) 447-2825
Email: gary at aob.org
Web: http://www.beertown.org



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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:06:37 -0400
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: Bacterial Resistance

The initial question of bacterial resistance to chlorine was answered 
thoroughly (and probably better than I would have) by Alan Meeker and Kevin 
Crouch, but I'm going to tack on an aside...

Instances of bacteria developing resistance to sanitizing agents are not 
uncommon in industrial operations (meat packing plants, etc.).  That is 
easily overcome by alternating the type of sanitizer used.  For example, a 
plant which uses a quat sanitizer (something you don't want to use in 
brewing) will switch over for iodophor for one or two days every week.  The 
reason is much like Alan's tetracycline resistant bacteria-- a gradual 
development of quat resistant bacteria is occuring at a low level, so a 
sudden switch to iodophor (or chlorine, or phenol for that matter) will 
knock the rest of those buggers out.

So maybe a periodic shift in sanitizers solution might not be a bad idea...

Rick Theiner



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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:20:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Teeshirt voting

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Voting for the 2001 HBD Teeshirt design has commenced! Visit
http://hbd.org, pick "Teeshirt Contest", review the designs, and
cast your vote! Voting will end Wednesday, 11/7/01. Vote early.

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 22:51:28 -0000
From: "Crouch, Kevin E" <Crouch.Kevin at emeryworld.com>
Subject: Sparge auf Deutch?

Jeff wrote:
>Many people seem to use the term sparge to 
>refer to the runoff.  It isn't - it's from Latin "spargere," to 
>sprinkle, and refers to the water you add.  The German term "lauter" 
>or runoff is more appropriate.

Thanks for the reminder Jeff.  One question,  what is the English verb for
lautering and what is the German verb for sparging?  Anyone?

Kevin Crouch
Vancouver, WA


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