---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Water analysis question (Scott)
  Re: Airlock Discussion ("Gregor Zellmann")
  Older Frozen Hop Pellets ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  Dog biscuit recipe? ("Lou King")
  Teeshirt contest update... (Pat Babcock)
  Pubs/places to visit in London? (Bill Wible)
  old hops (Jeff & Ellen)
  mash mixer motor (David Passaretti)
  airlocks ("Dr. Pivo")
  Vegemite from yeast slurry? (Walter J Doherty)
  Re: J-B Weld (gsferg)
  Re: Format of Rennerian Coordinates (gsferg)
  re: LPG (John Schnupp)
  RE: Beer Distance/Hash House Harriers (Bob Sheck)
  pumpin porters and ramblings (carlos benitez)


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:35:41 -0700
From: Scott <sejose at pacbell.net>
Subject: Water analysis question

I am to the point where I wish to know the makeup of my brew water. Since I
am on a municipal water supply, I can find out the water profile, but my
question is how does running the water through a filter change this
analysis, if in any way?  The filter I am using is sold at Home Depot,
General Electric brand, single stage under counter type with the 'Taste and
Odor' filter installed, which removes primarily chlorine.  Any guidance here
is appreciated!

Thanks

Scott
Auburn, CA



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:54:06 +0200
From: "Gregor Zellmann" <gregor at blinx.de>
Subject: Re: Airlock Discussion

Hi fellow brewers,

there is a discussion about airlocks happening in HBD. I can't resist to add
my 2 cents.

When I started this hobby 2,5 years ago, I read a lot of books, read and
posted in r.c.b. and got the impression that airlocks are a must to prevent
exposure to oxygen and infections. After visiting a few traditional
breweries in South Germany (Bierfranken) and seeing that they had open
fermentation vessels AND trying their beer, which was phantastic, I became
convinced, that airlocks are not needed to make good beer. A little exposure
to oxygen doesn't seem to do harm to the finished product and might be even
good. (I remember the very controversial discussions here in HBD about
dropping).

So, when I brew a normal gravity beer, which ferments out in a week I don't
bother with airlocks anymore and never had problems so far. I just cover the
hole for the airlock in my fermenters with a bit of alu foil.

BUT: I always use airlocks for long secondaries (2-3 months) and for high
gravity beers. The primary reason for this is not so much exposure to air
but exposure to Lactobacillus and other nasties. Just a few weeks ago, when
I returned from a week of holidays I had an airlock of a high gravity beer
(OG 1.085) stinking like vinegar. Probably the fermentation was quite
vigorous, while I was absent and pressed a little Kraeusen into the airlock,
which then got infected. I already thought my beer turned to vinegar too,
but it was not infected at all. I don't know what would have happened
without the airlock. Maybe the hops in the beer (70 IBU) would have killed
the nasties anyway, but I'm actually quite happy with my ways.

Gregor Zellmann
Berlin, Germany

P.S.: Sorry, I am too lazy to do the math for Rennerian coordinates. If
somebody has an easy way to do it for me, he is very welcome to mail it to
me. :)



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:17:36 +0930
From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: Older Frozen Hop Pellets

At 01:43  27/10/01, you wrote:
>William Plotner <beerbill at juno.com>
>Subject: Older Frozen Hop Pellets
>
>Hello Yall,
>I have 4 pounds of hop pellets, unopened, in oxygen barrier bags. They
>have been in the freezer since I bought them. That was about 2 years ago.
>They are: Cascade, Tetttnanger, Willamette, and Hallertauer.
>
>Are these any good? Would you use them?

NO, don't use them whatever you do, you will need to send them to me, am an 
authorised hop disposal depot!!! :-)

goodonya,
Thomas
South Australia




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:05:12 -0400
From: "Lou King" <lking at pobox.com>
Subject: Dog biscuit recipe?

I'm making my first all grain batch today.  I have a vague recollection
that there have been recipes published to make dog biscuits with the
spent grain.

However, I looked back through the HBD archives and wasn't able to find
anything along these lines, so I don't know where I might have heard
this.

While any response will be too late for today's batch, I'm still
interested in recycling and giving my dogs a cheap treat.

Any ideas?

Lou King (Lou's Brews) Ijamsville, MD [395.1,120.6] Rennerian



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:03:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Teeshirt contest update...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

If you haven't been to http://hbd.org lately, you may not have
noticed that the teeshirt contest is going on and patiently
awaiting your vote! Drop by, pick "teeshirt contest", review the
concepts and designs, then cast your vote!

So far, with just over 200 votes in, it's a dead heat between
Designs F and G, with Design E a not-too-distant third. Stop on
by and cast your vote!

And my extra special thanks to those who came through with their
creative thoughts - As with all things HBD, "We ain't nothin'
without alla yous!" (If you sent one in too late to make the
voting ballot - crossed a few wires on the timing thoughts, and
published the deadline for a class project in error <blush>.
Sorry - save it for next year! We'll definitely be doing this
again next year, to be sure!)

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:08:59 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Pubs/places to visit in London?

A friend writes:

> My wife and I are flying to London November 3rd.  Do you have
> a list of pubs or a list of the best places to visit?

Lucky guy!  I got to go to London once, when my ship
stopped in Portsmouth when I was in the Navy.  I was 24
at the time, and all I knew about was American beer.
This "English" stuff was warm and flat.  I sat in a pub
somewhere in London, couldn't tell you its name or location,
but they had handpumps lined up on the bar as far as I could
see, and I sat there drinking French Lager - Kronenborg or
something - out of can no less.  I was definitely playing
the part of the Ugly American, and boy, do I regret that to
this day.  Now that I have all this beer education, I can
only wonder about all the beers on those handpumps and what
I missed out on.

Someday I will have to return there and atone for my sins.

This guy is not a homebrewer, just looking for some good beer.

Anybody have any suggestions/recommendations so that my friend
doesn't repeat my earlier mistakes?

Thanks

Bill




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 19:18:35 -0400
From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: old hops

William Plotner wrote,  "I have 4 pounds of hop pellets, unopened, in 
oxygen barrier bags. They have been in the freezer since I bought them. 
That was about 2 years ago.  They are: Cascade, Tetttnanger, Willamette, 
and Hallertauer.
Are these any good?"

Yes, they most likely are still good.  Air and heat are the worst enemies 
and you have pretty much eliminated them.  I just today brewed with some 
very old hops that had been kept at near freezing temps for over 9 months. 
 They looked and smelled fresh, and the cooled wort tastes just as bitter 
as I anticipated.

Jeff Gladish, Tampa, Florida (I used the cool site to find my Rennarian 
coordinates, but have since lost the piece of scrap paper I wrote it on and 
am now too lazy after brewing all day to look it up again)



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 09:23:23 -0800 (PST)
From: David Passaretti <dpassaretti at yahoo.com>
Subject: mash mixer motor

I am contemplateing contructing a mash mixer from a
motor I currently own. The motor runs at 1750rpm, 115
v, 6a, and has 1/3 hp. Does anyone know if I can use a
dimmer (like the ones for fans) to reduce the speed of
the motor without damaging it. Does anyone have any
thoughts on the ideal speed. I had thought between 30
and 60 rpm would bve appropriate.  To reduce the speed
enough with a series of belts seems like it would be
too complicated.

Thanks

David Passaretti
Cincinnati, OH



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:26:55 +0100
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: airlocks

   Phil Yates has been bold and irresponsible enough to propose:


> I have only two uses for plastic airlocks (unlike all those bras I burnt).
> They fill a hole on the lid of my fermenting bucket (a hole I once drilled
> believing I needed an airlock) and keep bugs out of my wort.
>

 .... which is a conclusion I likewise reached some years ago.  There
were some raw individuals (probably spawned south of the equator) who
suggested that even when doing a secondary, they were superfluous, and
could be replaced with a bit of plastic food wrap and a rubber band.

Now, I think that that is absolutely horrid.

Imagine if you could make exactly the same quality beer, without having
specialty gadgets created expressly for brewing purposes...  why, we
would soon stand at risk of making brewing a fairly simply understood
procedure, and lose all of the panache, and stylish look, that continues
to inhibit these prospective "would - be", "Johnny-come-lately" brewers
from ever entering the scene.

Realizing that the idea was entirely preposterous, I reasoned that, as
such, there could just be merit in it.

I fiddled around with it, and even did some shoddy spurments which can
be read at....

http://www.bodensatz.com/homebrew/columns/jirvine/watertrap.html

I can easily report that I've never used the little bubblers since then,
and am happier to have them gathering dust somewhere than having to
shove them through a sanitising procedure.

I have ended up with a very high grade industrial filter in the hole of
my primary (OK, so it's a bit of toilet paper stuffed into it) because I
prefer an "open" primary.  If I secondary (and predictable clearing
times and yeast loads is one reason why one might want to do that some
times.... but it does entail one extra risk for oxygen exposure late in
the game, and a whole rack of crud that needs cleaning) then I use that
"plastic and rubber band" method.

As long as the fermentation is not extremely violent (say... an oxygen
deprived primary, that kicks off when racked) it seems to be a self
regulating system...... a crappy enough seal that it lets by excess
pressure when CO2 pressure gets too high, but good enough to keep it
tight at low differentials..... it kind of always looks "the same".... a
bit swollen.

Now, how can that be? ... that perhaps we do a bunch of unnecessary
extra work, and even propagate this excess nonsense to others?

I believe it has to do with "Maya" and the illusionary nature of our
life.

Verily, it can be found in the Vedic writings: "Life is but a dream."

For those not fortunate enough to be versed in Oriental philosophy and
religion, and would like to view this quote within the Hindu classic
without having to research it yourselves, you will find it in the
passage just after "Row, row, row your boat..."

Dr. Pivo



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:14:07 -0700 (MST)
From: Walter J Doherty <wjd at U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Vegemite from yeast slurry?

Hello collective,

Does anyone out there know of any recipes for home-made Vegemite or
Marmite using the left over yeast slurry after fermentation is done?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wally Doherty
Tucson, AZ



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:50:26 -0500
From: gsferg at clary.gwi.net
Subject: Re: J-B Weld

>How does J-B Weld go bonding stainless to stainless, and stainless to
>copper? Is it food safe? I am planning to use it in a mash tun and a
>counter-flow chiller.

I've lost track of the things I've stuck together with J-B Weld. Certainly 
aluminum and stainless, stainless and stainless, titanium and aluminum, dunno 
about stainless and copper but I wouldn't be surprised. Give it a try on some 
sample stock.

As for being food-safe, I dunno :(

George-

- -- 
George S. Fergusson <gsferg at clary.gwi.net>
Oracle DBA, Programmer, Humorist
Whitefield, Maine US [729.7, 79.6] Renerian
- --------------
I am a man, I can change, if I have to, I guess.





Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:21:51 -0500
From: gsferg at clary.gwi.net
Subject: Re: Format of Rennerian Coordinates


Tom Williams had this to say about that:

>[direction, distance].  In short, the directional component of the vector 
>ALWAYS comes first.  George Fergusson of Whitefield, Maine, a Professional 
>Land Surveyor, expressed similar reservations based on his surveying 
>experience.

That's EX-Professional Land Surveyor, and yes, I did express similar 
reservations. I was also under the impression that polar coordinates were 
[direction, distance] but someone else contradicted that assertion. Oil Well.

The rationale used to justify the [distance, direction] format- if I 
understood it correctly- was to "not risk confusing anyone with reality", a 
sentiment that is hard to argue with. Basically, I caved in when it appeared 
that the idea of converting distances to "beers" seemed to be catching on 
i.e., "don't push your luck".

Speaking of which, I did find the time today to meander down the road a 
country mile carrying a 6 pack of homebrew in my back pack. I consumed 3 
16-ounce bottles of Brown Ale in 1 mile. Then, I turned around and walked back 
home and drank 1 additional beer. It was a lovely afternoon!

So, this first experiment looks like 2 beers per mile, for me anyways, on 
average. How long I could keep that up I don't know. I'll have to try it again 
soon. My corrected Rennerian coordinates in [beering, bearing] format would be 
[1459.2, 79.6].

George-

- -- 
George S. Fergusson <gsferg at clary.gwi.net>
Oracle DBA, Programmer, Humorist
Whitefield, Maine US [729.7, 79.6] Renerian
- --------------
I am a man, I can change, if I have to, I guess.






Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:27:01 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: LPG

I wanted to make a comment about the recent LPG thread.  

Tom Clark said a few days ago,
>Also, when releasing propane from a tank into the air, if you can see it,
>you are discharging liquid.  The gas is invisible.

What about when I run out of propane and vent the remaining few psi?  I can
"see" the gas.  I know it is not liguid because of the pressure (and weight) in
the tank indicates that there is no liquid.  

I would argue this point.  Every "clear" substance had a different refractive
index.  I argue that what you are seeing is not liquid, but in reality the
light being refracted as it passed thru the gas.  This is similar to the effect
caused by looking thru hot air and seeing this simmering in the distance.  This
is also what makes stars twinkle.

In my job I use helium for vacuum leak detection.  The key to successful leak
detection is to use a minimal amount of helium.  One of the "tricks" is to
adjust the helium flow so that you can "see" it flowing out of the tip of the
wand when looking at a light source.

Finally, a question:  How much gas it there in an empty propane tank?  

Answer, the tank still is full of propane gas.  The gas is at atmospheric
pressure.  The gas is not truly removed until the tank has been evacuated and
purged (and then the tank will be filled with the purge gas).

My point is this, just because a tank is "empty" (no gas pressure) does not
necessarily mean it is safe.



=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:18:05 -0500
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net>
Subject: RE: Beer Distance/Hash House Harriers

Roy-

As a long-time member of that "Drinking Club with a Running Problem"
it would be very difficult to ascertain beer-to-distance algorithms. 

I am trying to gather some half-minded thoughts together to pose to HASH-L
on this very matter.

Bob (K9-6T9 [THFKA Hairball]) Sheck
// DEA - Down East Alers - Greenville, NC
bsheck at skantech.net // [583.2, 140.6] Apparent Rennerian



>Surely someone on the list is a member of a Hash House
> Harrier group and could give us their guidance on the beer-
>to-distance conundrum. 



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:24:46 -0800 (PST)
From: carlos benitez <greenmonsterbrewing at yahoo.com>
Subject: pumpin porters and ramblings

Hello everybody,
  With all this talk of pumpkin porters I've been
thinking - has anybody ever used the seeds? Or even
tried malting them for use? What about a "beer" made
of just malted pumpkin seeds and the meat of the
pumpkin - would this still be called beer or would it
be Pumpkin Malted Beverage ? German Purity laws aside,
at what point do these delicious nectars that we make
stop being "beer" and become something else? Wow, all
these questions ave made me thirsty, - I'm going to
the basement for a beer (Best Bitter) anybody else
want one?

=====
BIBIDI !
        Brew It Bottle It Drink It 
       Carlos Benitez - Green Monster Brewing
        Bainbridge, PA,  U.S.A.



Return to table of contents

---