---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Re: Turkey cookers and a question (Steve Bruns)
  While on the subject of cleaning... (leavitdg)
  re: Guinness Widgets (Nancy & George)
  RE:Gruit, herbs used in beer ("Tim R")
  RE: keg pressures (Jay\) Reeves" <jay666 at bellsouth.net>
  Condensation ("Mike Pensinger")
  Commercial Yeast Production ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Schmidling Maltmill (Roger & Roxy Whyman)
  the new Guinness bottles (Jeff & Ellen)
  Re:  Cleaning beer lines (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: Guinness bottle widgets (Marc Tiar)
  Re: Arrogant Bastard clone ("redbeard47.ny")
  Brew shop help ("redbeard47.ny")
  git yer corn!/Clarity Malt ("Dave Sapsis")
  Something's Got a Hold on Me (ensmingr)
  Brew Suppliers in Atlanta ("Mike")
  Its a beautiful thing! (Steven S)
  J type thermal couples (Ralph Link)


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:51:51 -0500
From: Steve Bruns <sdbruns at locl.net>
Subject: Re: Turkey cookers and a question

hbders:

At the local catalog merchandiser, (K's Merchandise, Ft. Wayne, IN)
turkey cooker pot /burner set-ups came in both stainless steel and
aluminum - price IIRC was $60 for aluminum and $90 for stainless.  Don't
remember the actual pot capacities but do remember thinking that they
were enough for a full 5 gal. boil with pleanty of headroom.

I recently bought one of the "Tap-a-Draft" minikeg set-ups from Williams
Brewing.  The instructions that came with it address attaching the
dispenser/CO2 only.  Williams catalog says you can't force carbonate
with this set up while another catalog (St. Pat's?? - I can't remember)
says that you can force carbonate one mini keg since the regulator is
preset for 15# while the others cask condition using 1/2 c. priming
sugar in the whole batch.

I realize this "tap-a-draft"  system is new but I was wondering if any
list members have any thoughts/experience concerning this inexpensive
($50) kegging system..

Thanks,

Steve Bruns
Rome City, IN
 (a little to the left and a little bit down from 0,0 Rennerian)



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:47:28 -0500 (EST)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: While on the subject of cleaning...

This doesn't have to do with tap lines, but blow off tubes and siphon tubes.
Have you ever wondered how to get rid of that white / yellow discoloration that
seems to annoyingly grow on the inside of plastic siphon and blow-off tubes?
There are small brushes that one can snake up in there...then rinse in chlorine
and it is all gone...!

 .Darrell


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:19:59 -0500
From: Nancy & George <homsweet at voicenet.com>
Subject: re: Guinness Widgets


>I saw an ad for Draught Guinness in bottles.  Do these use a Widget that will
>fit through the opening in standard beer bottles?  Is anyone familiar with the
>overall process of using Widgets and whether this is something that could be
>considered by the HB community?  Can any wholesalers/retailers get these
>Widgets for bottles, if they exist?
>
>David Houseman
>SE PA

Dave,
They are designed to not fit through the neck of the bottle to avoid
litigation from swallowing the sucker. I believe that they would require
complex machinery to use and that Guinness views this item as an almost
military secret. The purpose is so that dudes in clubs can have a
draft-style Guinness while drinking from the bottle (barbarians!)No one
offers them to the HB trade and I doubt they will. For a Guinness like
effect try using Nitrous oxide cartridges instead of co2 on a mini-keg
system. My gas house will do canisters of mixed gas if you request it. I use
15% nitro for regular beer (nice creamy retained head) or 75% for stout.
Without a restrictor faucet- just pour real slow from a party tap. So you
can also use it with corni kegs.

Cheers!
George



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:00:26 -0500
From: "Tim R" <par8head at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE:Gruit, herbs used in beer

RJ writes:

<i>"Someday, I'll find some heather, as I've always had an interest in that
too."</i>


I have two bags of heather awaiting a Scotch Ale recipe.  I just can't
remember where I bought them.  All my herbs are made by "Brewer's Garden"
and I know they sell heather.   I thought I bought them at Hop Tech, but
can't find them on-line now.  I'm sure someone here can help.

Also, anyone have any recipe recommendations for a good "Heather Ale?"



Timmy
par8head at earthlink.net
AIM: par8head5




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:22:32 -0600
From: "James \(Jay\) Reeves" <jay666 at bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: keg pressures

Last Friday, Brian Lundeen sez:

> Aaargh, I just don't get this kegging stuff. Carbonation pressures,
serving
> pressures, turning up, turning down, balancing line pressures, ... I
repeat,
> aaargghhh!
>
> I thought I had this figured out.

{snip}

> Anyway, I thought I was supposed to balance that pressure by using an
> appropriate length of line to my tap.

I believe you're right, Brian.  I do that and it certainly provides good
results - I serve beers from 8psi to 26psi (yeah, that's a Weizen alright).

> Using 3/16" line which drops around 2
> psi per foot, I figure a 12' line to my tap should produce a nice slow
flow,
> even if I leave the pressure at 25 psi. For my regular beers, I figure on
a
> 7' line. So with a couple of disconnects, some cheap taps and a roll of
line
> I figure I should be able to fashion some appropriate serving assemblies
for
> handling my beers without worrying about turning down pressures for
serving,
> then turning them back up so that teh carbonation level doesn't drop.

Using 2psi/foot drop is a good starting point, then you'll have to screw
around with adjusting the length a little to get it just right.  Seems I
arrived at 1.8psi/foot drop, but I imagine it will be different for every
installation.  Things like how high the tap is above the kegs liquid level
comes into play also.

Also you want to think about the pour rate - if it's too slow, it'll foam -
if it's too fast, the CO2 gets knocked out of solution as it slams into the
bottom of the glass.  As the beer comes out of the tap, it should fill the
entire diameter of the taps nozzle - not dribble out the bottom half of the
nozzle.  You should shoot for a pour rate between 100oz/min to 130oz/min -
you can time this by how fast it takes to fill a 12oz glass then do the
math.  I get pretty good results with 120oz/min.  But as the keg empties,
that pour rate will drop, provided the same pressure is on the keg.

And you want to make sure you are using "beer line", not food-grade tubing
from the hardware store.  There must be some irregularities in the
food-grade hardware store tubing because in my experience, it caused the
beer to foam no matter what you did.

And the Weizen is gonna foam anyway at that high a pressure.  I've never
been to Germany, but I'm told that it takes a while for the server to pour a
Weizen because it foams over there too.

 -Jay Reeves
Huntsville, AL




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:30:01 -0500
From: "Mike Pensinger" <beermkr at bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Condensation

Hello all,

Well my new freezer works like a charm for fermentation.. The only issue I
have is that I get a large amount of condensation inside.  The freezer is a
commercail ice cream freezer with sliding glass lids.  I have an analog
controller and the span seems to be about 9 degrees.  I am going to replace
it with a Ranco unit or a PID controller set for on/off control.  Will
limiting the temerature swings help my condensation problem? Anyone have any
other ideas?

Mike Pensinger
beermkr at bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~beermkr/
Norfolk Virginia - [551.4, 132.9] Rennerian



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:43:34 -0500
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Commercial Yeast Production

I've been playing around with aerobic yeast starters using constant infusion
of concentrated wort for about a year now.  It's a little tricky and
requires very careful sanitation maintenance.  The principal (whether
correct or incorrect) upon which I've been operating is that yeast growth is
limited by the amount of growth substrate provided to the yeast, i.e. the
more substrates one provides for yeast growth, the more yeast growth one
should get.  Correct?

If so, it would seem that starting a yeast culture off in a dilute solution
of substrate (wort) and continuously providing the culture with a source of
nutrients (and adequate oxygen) by constant infusion would allow the yeast
to grow indefinitely.  The practical limitation is how much volume one is
able to handle.  To overcome the volume problem, I slowly infuse a highly
concentrated wort.  The trick here is to provide the nutrients at the same
rate as that by which the yeast consume the nutrients.

I believe this is the principal upon which some commercial breweries culture
their yeast, and I'm guessing that this is the way that commercial yeast
producers grow the large quantities of yeast in the shortest amount of time
and in the least amount of volume.  Does anyone know how the commercial
yeast producers (Wyeast, etc.) grow large quantities of yeast?  My guess is
that it is nothing like the typical step culturing commonly performed by
homebrewers.
- -- 
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:48:27 -0700
From: Roger & Roxy Whyman <rwhyman at mho.com>
Subject: Schmidling Maltmill

EO asks about Schmidling Maltmills, I've had an adjustable Schmidling
Maltmill for about 7 or so years and it's been motorized for about 3
years. I do 15 gal batches, so I'm crushing 25 to 35 lbs at a time. It
has worked wonderfully for me, both before and after the motor. As for
the motor, I got a used one with a built in reduction gear from the
Surplus Center in Lincoln, NE. They also sell a three piece coupler that
works great. The reduction gear means no pulleys or belts to get
clothes, fingers or whatever, caught in. I think I end up with about 100
to 120 rpm, maybe a little faster, but not so fast that your afraid the
bearings will fail. I've moved recently, so finding all the particulars
on the motor  and coupler #, may be tuff, but if you call information
for their phone #, they will send a catalog.
The motor sure beats turning a crank.
Good Luck
Roger Whyman
Parker, CO

How about that Colorado - Nebraska game. What an A** Kickin'



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:29:59 -0500
From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: the new Guinness bottles

David Houseman wrote,

"I saw an ad for Draught Guinness in bottles.  Do these use a Widget that 
will fit through the opening in standard beer bottles?  Is anyone familiar 
with the overall process of using Widgets and whether this is something 
that could be considered by the HB community?  Can any 
wholesalers/retailers get these Widgets for bottles, if they exist?"

The widget is a floating ball that stays in the bottle.  It won't easily 
fit through the neck.  It is designed to inject more nitrogen into the beer 
as you drink it right out of the bottle.

For a good explanation of how a widget works, read Michael J. Lewis' Stout, 
a Brewers Publications Classic Beer Styles series book.  The can or bottle 
is injected with liquid nitrogen just before sealing or capping.  When the 
pressure of CO2 and Nitrogen equalizes in the beer and the can or bottle, 
some of the gas and beer is forced into the widget.  When the bottle is 
opened and pressure released, a jet stream of beer and gas is released 
through a small hole in the widget with "sufficient shear to cause gas 
breakout; these bubbles in turn nucleate other bubbles and the 
characteristic Guinness surge is underway."

The very strange thing about the bottled Guinness is their marketing.  They 
want us to drink the beer right out of the bottle.  It seems that more gas 
is "jetted" out of the widget every time you tip the bottle, making it 
"creamier" with every sip.  I'm not sure how or why they do this.

I've always thought that half the enjoyment of a Guinness is from looking 
at it in the pint glass.  The cascading bubbles; the creamy white "parson's 
collar" on jet black liquid; the lace inside the glass marking the length 
of each sip.  To drink this out of a bottle would be almost sacrilege, 
don't you think?

Jeff Gladish, Tampa, Fl. (989.5, 175.5 Rennerian)



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 12:32:04 -0800
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com>
Subject: Re:  Cleaning beer lines

Regarding the slimy picnic tap:  Why not just take it off and rinse it out 
and hang it up to dry between uses?  I never let  a beer line with picnic 
tap stay on a keg when not immediately in use.  I never have to do anything 
more than rinse out with hot water immediately after use and I never get 
any gunk building up in mine.  BTW, I use quick disconnects with flare 
fittings so that I can take the hose off the QD and take hoses and QDs and 
faucets all apart and let dry after rinsing.

I also have regular beer faucets.  Unless they are under pretty constant 
use (at least one beer a day) I disconnect them and flush them out with hot 
water.  I don't drink enough beer to need to leave lines on constantly, and 
flushing one out with hot water immediately after use only takes 30 seconds 
or so.

These procedures should probably clear up your slime problem (at least if 
you start with new hoses and faucets).  And if you don't care enough about 
your beer to spend the teeny amount of money to trash any suspect hoses and 
picnic faucet, then you will get problems with your beer and there will be 
no one to blame but yourself.

dion

- --
Dion Hollenbeck  Email:  hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:       http://www.woodsprite.com
Brewing Page:    http://hbd.org/hollen  [1359.5,263.7] Rennerarian



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:36:04 -0800
From: Marc Tiar <marc at tiar.reno.nv.us>
Subject: Re: Guinness bottle widgets

I managed to get one of these out of the bottle without breaking it (the 
bottle that is), out of curiousity.  The bottle looked like a nice one to 
keep for reuse.

Anyway, the widget is kind of rocket shaped (I think they actually call it 
the "rocket widget" in the bottle version), with stiff little wings that 
prevent it from coming out and down your throat as you tip it back.  I 
suspect they push it into the bottle with the wings folded in, then they 
pop open in the bottle.  It was pretty challenging to remove - I ended up 
with a hot screwdriver melting it into the widget to grab hold, after 
failing with tweezers and needle-nose pliers.  It should fit in any 
standard bottle, but I don't know if they're reusable at all.  Don't know 
exactly how they charge them, might be semi-proprietary info.

And the bottled draught Guinness was just fine with me, although not as 
enjoyable as true draught or the canned version, imo.   I went for a glass 
rather than their suggestion of drinking straight from the bottle.  Just 
didn't seem right with a Guinness.  :-)

Marc Tiar
Reno, NV
[1874.4, 276.4] Apparent Rennerian



>Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:19:05 -0500
>From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Guinness Widgets
>
>I saw an ad for Draught Guinness in bottles.  Do these use a Widget that will
>fit through the opening in standard beer bottles?  Is anyone familiar with the
>overall process of using Widgets and whether this is something that could be
>considered by the HB community?  Can any wholesalers/retailers get these
>Widgets for bottles, if they exist?
>
>David Houseman
>SE PA




Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:06:58 -0500
From: "redbeard47.ny" <redbeard47.ny at netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Arrogant Bastard clone


>BYO printed a clone about a year back , I could probably find it if you 
>want, actually considered it myself. Bob

Beer, it's not just for breakfast anymore!

- ----------------------------------------------------
Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today
Only $9.95 per month!
http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:51:53 -0500
From: "redbeard47.ny" <redbeard47.ny at netzero.net>
Subject: Brew shop help

Out of lurk mode:
         Does anyone know of a brew shop in the Wash DC, Alexandria, or 
Annapolis area? Going to be visiting and might as well pick up some 
supplies and save the shipping if possible. Also worried about ordering 
carboys via mail. Bob
Return to  lurk mode:  8-)=

Beer, it's not just for breakfast anymore!

- ----------------------------------------------------
Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today
Only $9.95 per month!
http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 06:51:25 -0800
From: "Dave Sapsis" <dsapsis at earthlink.net>
Subject: git yer corn!/Clarity Malt

Concerning sources for corn, I'd like to echo Marc Sedam's good advice --
namely that Brewers maize from homebrew shops is often old and well past its
prime.  A number of years ago I got a bag (50#) of brewers flaked maize, and
after making a less than remarkable beer with it, I noticed a distinct
stale, papery character in the aroma of the maize.  I then did a simple
test -- I boiled up a small sample of the flakes side by side some polenta.
There was a huge difference in the way the two products smelled and tasted,
with the flakes having a stale, faintly musty and dead flavor (not unlike
those from very old boxes of cereal that have somehow gone open but unused)
compared to the bright, fresh corn cereal notes of the polenta.

While like Jeff, I enjoy the cereal cooker routine, I was curious if the
flavors derived from Polenta/grits were unique, or if its just a matter of
getting fresh flakes.  I have a new bag that smells fresh, and I have used
it to good effect, but still when tested side by side has a more muffled,
subdued corn character than the grits.   It isn't stale at all, but a much
softer and less detailed aroma.  Whether this difference translates into
appreciable differences in beers -- don't have a good system for testing
that.  But regardless, my  take home is that if you need to use flakes due
to procedural constraints, make sure they are fresh. However, one really
cool side effect of having a good supply of polenta in your pantry is that
you will likely be inclined to use it for dinner as well, where it is most
welcome.
 *******************
Chuck Dougherty of Little Rock, AR asks about Crisp's Clarity Malt.  Well,
ain't that just like a homebrew supplier, claiming nil when they mean low.
Clarity malt is most known for its very low protein levels (the lot I had a
bag from listed total protein at less than 9%!) and thus its true that it
would have lower polyphenol components.  It also has lower diastatic power,
was slightly lighter in color than the normal pale ale malt from Crisp, and
was a little less plump.  Its main use is as a protein dillutant for British
brewers who sometimes run into both runnoff and clarity/stability issues
from abnormally high Nitrogen lots of base malt.   The stuff I got actually
had very good flavor, and I made some bitters using it wholly as the base
malt, as well as a bizarre Jasmine rice cream ale thingy.  Unless you have
particular  needs for low protein, however, it seems the basic Crisp Maris
Otter (which is a truly premium malt) might be a better choice for making
English style ales.
- --dave sapsis, sacramento CA




Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:24:26 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: Something's Got a Hold on Me

This just in from the "Syracuse New Times" ...

An Estonian couple won the world wife-carrying title for the
fourth year in a row, using a toting method called the "Estonian
carry". In it, the woman squeezes her thighs on the sides of the
man's face and holds onto his waist while hanging upside down
along his back, leaving his arms free to swing as he runs along
the 277 yard course. In defending their title against 20 other
husband-and-wife teams in Sonkajarvi, Finland, Margo Uusorg, 22,
and Birgit Ullrich, 18, won Brigit's weight in beer. She weighs
75 pounds.

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
Life Under the Sun: http://www.yale.edu/yup/lifesun



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:43:43 -0500
From: "Mike" <brewski at inet99.net>
Subject: Brew Suppliers in Atlanta

I have a son that lives in Marietta, GA that is interested in getting into
homebrewing. (Picking up one of dad's habits.) He has a birthday coming up
in a few days and I was thinking about getting a extract homebrew setup.

I plan on calling in an order over the phone then having him pick up the
goodies himself.

There are several in the Atlanta area. Any of you have any experience with
HB shops in the Atlanta area, good, bad, marked them off your list...

Email me with your thoughts, experience, advice at
brewski at inet99.net

Also, any advice on HB clubs. I see there are several in Atlanta.

Mike





Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:23:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: Its a beautiful thing!


I recently purchased a "kegerator". The converted fridge type for corny
kegs, dual tap tower, yada yada...

I kegged my Crankcast Stout. After 2 co2 leaks, a popped circuit
breaker and some fiddling, i'm enjoying a beautiful foamy
head and a warm belly. Sadly this keg probably will not make it out
of its youth. Yet coming home to a perfect pint is so worth it!




 Steven St.Laurent ::: steven at 403forbidden.net ::: 403forbidden.net
	[580.2, 181.4] Rennerian ::: Lilburn (atlanta) GA









Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 21:56:19 -0600
From: Ralph Link <ralphl at shaw.ca>
Subject: J type thermal couples

I recently obtained a 10 channel Fluke digital thermometer. It uses the J 
type thermal couple. I have been advised that it is simple and cheap to 
make your on thermal couple with the J type wire. We plan to use the unit 
with several probes in the mask and hot liquor tank to monitor the temps 
during the brewing day. Does anyone have any opinions on the introduction 
of these probes into the mash or hot liquor tank? Thanks in advance for any 
opinions offered. 



Return to table of contents

---