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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: AHA Membership, Force Carbonating (Jay\) Reeves" <jay666 at bellsouth.net>
  re: Yeast Harvesting ("Rogers, Mike")
  The AHA created the internet? (Jim Liddil)
  poisonous wort? (Joe Yoder)
  Re:: samiclaus on draft ("Pete Calinski")
  Chillin in the cellar...... ("Berggren, Stefan")
  RE: Klein Man, The Kleinerator, doing the beer thing... (Brian Lundeen)
  ProMash Hop Calculations (Richard Foote)
  RE: WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (mohrstrom)
  Partial versus full boil... (Nathan Matta)
  Brewing in an apartment... (wes)
  advancements in craft ("Dave Sapsis")


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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 05:59:12 -0600
From: "James \(Jay\) Reeves" <jay666 at bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: AHA Membership, Force Carbonating

> From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
> Subject: Benefits of an AHA Membership?
>
> Without the AHA we'd still be dumping and stirring and adding
> bakers yeast.

I agree, the AHA has done a lot, but you can't really say that.  It's like
saying "without Henry Ford, we'd still be riding horses".  It was inevitable
that homebrewing on this scale was going to happen, with or without an
organization such as the AHA.

> A wonderfully run NATIONAL contest. Homebrewer of the Year, wow I get
> excited thinking about what energy and skill goes in to that!

I take exception to this.  I've judged a couple of the nationals and won't
do it again: too many beers, not enough judges, not enough time = palate
fatigue and rushed judging.  Plus, a winning beer has to go to a second
round a month or two later.  Will it change?  You bet!  I feel Home Brewer
of The Year is more of a crap shoot than skill.

> From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
> Subject: RE: Force Carbonation & Keg Cooling
>
> You can force carbonate your keg at room temperature.  Just pump your
> keg up to about 30psi and let it sit a couple of days.  Check it twice a
> day and re-pressurize as needed.  To serve, you will have to reduce the
> head pressure to about 4psi (depending upon your tapping/beer line
> configuration) then repressurize after the serving session in order to
> maintain the carbonation.

Doug, you probably have to do that when you serve it through a cobra faucet
because those things always seem to foam, but you don't have to jockey with
the serving pressure like that when you use a normal beer faucet.  It can be
carbonated and served at the same pressure.  I do it all the time with beers
ranging from 5psi to 24psi.  You need to use tubing specifically made for
beer and not the hardware store food-grade tubing, you need to take into
account such things as tubing size, temperature & pressure of course, how
high or low the faucet is to the keg, are there any in-line reductions, your
flow rate, etc. - you get all that right and you can carbonate & serve at
the same pressure.

I hook up a gas line on the keg and leave it for around 2 weeks at the
pressure needed for that styles carbonation level.  Then when serving, I
serve at the same pressure and leave it hooked up all the time without ever
once playing with the regulator.

 -Jay Reeves
Huntsville, AL




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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:22:35 -0500
From: "Rogers, Mike" <mike.rogers at eds.com>
Subject: re: Yeast Harvesting

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:06:54 EST
From: Markzak11 at aol.com
Subject: Yeast Harvesting

Mark Zak asked is interested in any thoughts on yeast harvesting/washing. 
=======================================
Mark, I started by using the process defined by Wyeast for harvesting and
washing.  
Objective: To recover yeast from a finished batch of beer for repitching or
storage for future brewing.
Wyeast - Safe, simple methods for harvesting yeast for storage & reuse.
Yeast Washing for the Home Brewer:
http://www.wyeastlab.com/hbrew/hbyewash.htm

Additional links:
Wyeast - Basic Yeast Education Info page.
http://www.wyeastlab.com/education/edinfo.htm
Wyeast - Maximum Yeast Performance page.
http://www.wyeastlab.com/education/edmyp.htm

Mike Rogers
Cass River Homebrewers - Mid Michigan
www.geocities.com\cassriverhomebrewers\beer
mailto:mike01_rogers at yahoo.com






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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 06:49:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: The AHA created the internet?

> 
> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:27:41 -0500
> From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
> Subject: Benefits of an AHA Membership?
> 
> Now that is a good question!
> 
> But to me why even ask it.  We are the American Association of Homebrewers,
> enough said.  This organization has provided the impetus and means for what
> we love doing, making beer.
> 
> No AHA, and you probably wouldn't see
> 
> This Digest.

Uh, the AHA did not create this digest, and almost killed it.  Check the
archives.
> 
> Almost a hundred vibrant clubs, websites,  and discussion groups.

Again this digest, and the various other digests (lambic, mead, cider
sake) are not creations of the AHA.  Neither is rec.crafts.brewing.
The AHA has nothing to do with my or other peoples web sites. Let's not
rewrite history. 

I will admit that I got started with zymurgy and as HBOTY I had my 15
minutes of fame.  And I do agree that for the AHA to work we all need to
help and contribute.  And rather than go on a tirade I'll let people look
at the hbd, judgenet rec.craft.brewing archives to see why the AHA is not
above reproach.  At the same time I would agree that they have made great
strides in getting it together and taking charlie out of the picture. :-)

Jim Liddil
North Haven, CT 



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:46:44 -0600
From: Joe Yoder <headduck at swbell.net>
Subject: poisonous wort?

Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
asks about using pressure treated wood in contact with wort:

There are new types of pressure treated wood that are not green and do
not contain arsenic.  I still  would never use any type of treated wood
in contact with wort (unless it is specified food safe).  If it is the
old green type of pressure treated wood, I doubt that you are going to
die, but it really can't be a good thing and certainly adds at least a
small amount of arsenic to the beer.  Tell that brewer to get a piece of
untreated wood!!  Why create an unnecessary risk for very little, if
any, benefit.

brew safe!!

Joe Yoder
Lawrence, KS
Rennerian coordinate illiterate



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:55:14 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pcalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Re:: samiclaus on draft

>Anyway It's at BW3s in downtown Indianapolis

Also at Elmer Suds, Wilkes Barre PA.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.) 
***********************************************************



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:07:33 -0600
From: "Berggren, Stefan" <stefan_berggren at trekbike.com>
Subject: Chillin in the cellar......

Fellow Beermen/Beerwomen, 

I just hooked up my old beer fridge (an old GE that has the freezer in the
main compartment(single unit)) which remained dormant for sometime.  It has
been running at 28-32 degrees at the lowest setting !!!  Efficient unit or
is this due to the freezer being in the same compartment?  Anyway, I think
that lagering temperatures should be fine, but I would like to keep the temp
at slightly warmer storage temp (40-45) for my ales.  I am looking around
for information and testimonials for various temperature control devices.  I
noticed that there has been some discussion concerning these devices as of
late, so I thought I would ask away.  

*	How do these buggers really work?
*	Can they truly save energy costs?
*	How predictable/Safe for the fridge are they?

Any information would be greatly appreciated about the temp controllers and
any ideas as to why my fridge is so darn cold?


cheers, 
Stefan Berggren
 
stefan_berggren at trekbike.com
It is better to think of church in the ale-house than to think of the
ale-house in church. -- Martin Luther (1483-1546) 







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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:01:00 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Klein Man, The Kleinerator, doing the beer thing...



> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:09:56 -0500 (EST)
> From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
> Subject: Who is this guy?
> 
> Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
> 
> I received the 365 Bottles of Beer calendar. It's rather 
> entertaining, particular the prose describing the beers. So, 
> who is Bob Klein? Anybody have any comments?

He is the beer world's answer to Robert Parker, and all the rest of those
Wine Spectator types that spew forth pretentious twaddle in describing their
drink of choice. No reason why the wine snobs should have all the fun, with
their "bright beams of raspberry" and "subtle nuances of horse-blanket and
cat's pee". Bob is the man who will lead us into a much needed age of beer
snobbery and before you know it, you will be demanding that the prices of
all beers be trippled so that the riff-raff can no longer partake of such an
elitist beverage. I have it on good authority that Mr Klein will soon be
starting up a glossy, coffee-table style magazine called The Beer
Pontificator (along with its companion mag, Jock Strap Afficionado) so keep
an eye out for them in your favorite book store.

Now, I'm sure Joel Plutchak is going to slap me upside the head for
suggesting this, but if you really want to have some fun, go trolling in
rec.food.drink.beer with a comment like, "Wow, has anyone read Bob Klein's
beer reviews? They're awesome!" You'll see a knee jerk reaction that makes
political correctness seem like a Cheech and Chong road trip.

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:30:11 -0500
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: ProMash Hop Calculations

Brewers,

I have been using ProMash for a few months now.  One thing that keeps
hitting me is the hop bittering calculations.  It seems to take way less
hops to achieve a desired bitterness level than I was accustomed to over
many years of using long hand calculations and other brewing software.
What gives?  Has anyone ever checked the accuracy of ProMash by having
hopped wort samples analyzed.  I know ProMash allows you to choose from
three different calculation methods.  I use the default method.  Can't
figure how to get back into wherever I need to go to change it.

Open discussion of this would be most welcome.


Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewing
Murrayville, GA 



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:44:07 -0500
From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com
Subject: RE: WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim LIDDIL sez:
> WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The most succinct, and inarguable, statement made in the history of HBD.


Mark in Kalamazoo



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:14:53 -0500
From: Nathan Matta <whatsa at MIT.EDU>
Subject: Partial versus full boil...

Not to revisit an old topic, but I'm afraid that I'm just now catching up on
old HBD's...

At 12:23 AM 11/10/2001 -0500, RJ wrote:

 > <snip> "Also, is there any benefit to boiling the entire batch of wort
 > when you do extract beers? Most recipe's call for a 2 or three gallon
 > initial boil and then add it to the water already in the carboy."
<snip>
 > 4.    A full rolling boil, will give the finished beer better foam
 > characteristics.

RJ, or others with the requisite wisdom,

Could you please elaborate on point 4, above?  Why would a rolling boil of
all the water provide superior foam characteristics to a rolling boil that
is later topped up?  Could this perhaps be a result of the superior hot
and cold break, rather than a separate thing?  I've never felt like I got
anything approaching the hot or cold break that others get, but I still
feel like my beer has pretty good foam characteristics.  Maybe I'm wrong...
Thanks for any wisdom you can offer here.

Nathan
========================================
Nathan Matta
Fuzzy Beer Home Brewery
Randolph, MA, USA



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:42:31 -0500
From: wes <wesleygriffin at home.com>
Subject: Brewing in an apartment...

So I've been brewing now for about 8 months and am having an absolute
fantastic time. My only real problem is that since I'm renting my
apartment, I don't have any real space. Right now I'm doing all of my
carboy cleaning in my bathtub, and I'm tired of having to be on my knees
bending over the tub to clean everything. I've thought about getting a
big wash sink and pulling it out on brewday and hooking it up to my sink
and draining it back into my sink. I'm curious if there are any other
renters out there who have other ideas on how to have a nice big wash
place. TIA!

Wes


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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:08:29 -0800
From: "Dave Sapsis" <dsapsis at earthlink.net>
Subject: advancements in craft

>Without the AHA we'd still be dumping and stirring and adding bakers yeast.

David Craft blesses us with a lovely bit of historical hyperbole, surmising
that the current state of affairs would likely be the same that existed
prior to the formation  of the AHA.  The deduction here being that in the
intervening 20+ years there would have been no change, no advancement in
skill, no growth, save for the AHA.   I strongly question this assertion,
particularly given that after my  three years of membership (1984-6), I felt
it offered me nothing but disappointment.  I was fully able to move on
technically without its support, having made connections tolocal brewers,
University with a fermentation science program, and to commercial craft
brewers who were just getting started -- connections all made strictly as a
*homebrewer*.   Certainly I was not alone.

>Homebrewers are a thrifty bunch (to a fault sometimes, but that is another
>topic).  Look beyond the obvious and you'll see the benefits of being a
>member of the American Homebrewers Association. If you're still not sure,
>look up "association" in the dictionary.

I prefer to look up the word "community" as it far better defines the loose
connection that people can share over a purpose, and I fail to see the
relevance of AHA membership having much to do with *my* participation in
that community.  Said another way, if the AHA were not here, IMO, there
would still be homebrew clubs, this listserve, and my fellow friends
successfully pursuing the craft with dedication, humor, and goodwill.

I have no objections whatsoever to those that are thrilled to be a part of
the AHA, even those that think it a bargain. I don't  question whether it is
truely providing great service to folks in their quests -- they should be
able to make that determination for themselves.  I also think the current
group of leaders are a fresh change and seem in it for the good of something
other than just the institution for the sake of the institution. I do,
however, object to those that think they can speak for me, and then go and
bugger it up.

cheers,
- --dave sapsis, sacramento CA





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