---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Kleinian Descriptions ("Mike Brennan")
  visiting down under (Ray Kruse)
  : RE: cascase to clean kegs. ("Mike")
  Re: Bottle Question ("Audie Kennedy")
  Brewing water chemicals ("Mike Brennan")
  Re: high diacetyl down under ("Pete Calinski")
  New Keg Cleaning ("Brian M Dotlich")
  Cincy's Bockfest ("Dan Listermann")
  cooling 10 gallons (Al Klein)
  Color of iodophor solution (Al Klein)
  Chemical "Grades" (mohrstrom)
  Klein (Pat Babcock)
  Re: Stupid brewer tricks ("Gene")
  Rate of O2 intake (craftbrewer)
  Safale SO-4 Diacetyl Production and Grumpy Fred ("Phil Yates")
  RE: Subject: RIMS PIDs and SSRs (John Schnupp)
  Siphoning (Bob McDonald)


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 00:13:07 -0600
From: "Mike Brennan" <brewdude at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Kleinian Descriptions

Simple concept.  I believe his descriptions are rooted in some good doobies
before tasting sessions.  How else do you describe such detail, description,
and imagination.  Mr. Klein you are busted.



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 06:45:49 -0500
From: Ray Kruse <rkruse at johngalt.biz>
Subject: visiting down under

"the only non Australian HBD folk to visit Burradoo are Ray Kruse"

I must confess that I'd thought of a "Return to Burradoo", but having
avoiding the Postal Authorities the first time, I'm hesitant to retry my
luck.

I will say, however, that anyone who does visit the Baron will be shown
a good time, with pleasant company, and a sampling of some very good
beer.  Since we've not heard anything about the billiard table lately,
I'm guessing that it has a thick covering of dust, and even poor Marilyn
has disappeared with the draining of the swamp created by the neighbor.

Ray Kruse
Survivor of Burradoo 2000
Glen Burnie, PRMd
rkruse at johngalt.biz
- -- 
"It must be obvious that liberty necessarily means freedom to choose
foolishly as well as wisely; freedom to choose evil as well as good; 
freedom to suffer the rewards of good judgment, 
and freedom to suffer the penalties of bad judgment. 
If this is not true, the word  ~FREEDOM~ has no meaning."


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:29:39 -0500
From: "Mike" <brewski at inet99.net>
Subject: : RE: cascase to clean kegs.

I'll bit that a lot of folks that have dishwashers have SS pots, pans, etc.,
that they put in the dishwasher all the time with Cascade as the cleanser.

Many pots, pans, etc. have completely disappeared after the dishwasher and
Cascade was through with them. All that Cascade, all that hot water and all
that high pressure spraying washed them and the food down the drain.

It's the concentration. One or a few beers and I'm ok. (Walt Lewis might
disagree with that, anyway...) Two cases, like Refrigerator Perry has been
reported to have drank at one time...
I would melt down just like the SS kitchen utensils above.

Mike





Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:03:24 -0500
From: "Audie Kennedy" <audie_24293 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Bottle Question

Hello
I constructed my own simple cases for odd sized bottles, using rope for
dividers/handles.  I made mine to hold 32 bottles.  The ends are the width
of four bottles, plus the width of the rope, and of course the sides are 8
bottles widths, plus the rope.  The bottom is scrap plywood.  I drilled
holes along the sides and the ends about 3/4 of the height, between the
bottles.  The rope is woven between the bottles, and is left long in the
middle of the ends for handles.  They work well and look pretty good also.
I have never tried one of those character pictures, but if you imagine a
shallow box with rope handles at the end, and rope running between the
bottles, you'll figure it out.  The rope cushions the bottles pretty well.
Audie Kennedy
Wise, VA






Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:06:12 -0600
From: "Mike Brennan" <brewdude at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Brewing water chemicals

When searching for sources of brewing chemicals, don't look past your local
pharmacist.  Five years back I was looking for a source of calcium cloride.
I happened to mention my dilemna to a brewing friend.  His wife, who is a
pharmacist, overheard.  Then next day she called me to ask how much I needed
as she had a catalog with 100s of differnet pharmacy grade chemicals.  I
wound up getting 500 grams of pure "pharmacy grade" Calcium Chloride for
about $12.  I'm still using it and am about 2/3s through my supply probably
50 ten-gallon batches later.  She said she could order me anything I needed
as long as it was not a controlled substance or something you need a
prescription for.  I'll bet most pharmacists would accomodate you as long as
you explained your need.



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:23:49 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: high diacetyl down under

Alan replied to Phil:

"There are three possible solutions to your problem."

<Snip>

I have a fourth solution, pour it down the drain.  But, because of the afore
mentioned Coriolus effect and subsequent counter acting effect from the
northern hemisphere yeast, it would remain suspended in the sink. (We all
know liquids swirl in opposite directions above and below the equator.)

Solution, ship it to me (at your expense of course) and I'll take care of
it.



Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 19:46:35 -0500
From: "Brian M Dotlich" <BMDotlich at cs.com>
Subject: New Keg Cleaning

Brewers,

I just got a brand new Corny keg and the inside of the keg smells rubbery
and oily.  I am wondering what would be a suitable cleaning for a new Corny.
I was thinking maybe a nice long soak in hot PBW would do the trick, but I
didn't know if that would remove any oils from the manufacturing process.

Thanks for your input

Brian Dotlich
Centerville OH



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:48:18 -0500
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Cincy's Bockfest

 "Ahrendt, Eric (E.J.)" <eahrendt at visteon.com> asks:

<Does anyone know the fate of the Cincinnati Bockfest?  The only reference I
<can find is the Bloatarians upcoming Bock competition.  Thanks.

Bockfest starts this coming Friday with the Bockfest Parade starting in
front of Arnold's at 8th and Main.  The parade will form around 5:00 - 5:30
and step off at 6:00.  No alcohol allowed - this is Cincinnati were fun is
carefully regulated after all.  The festivities will proceed all around the
Main Street area that night and Saturday.  It is the most fun you can have
with your clothes on.

 Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com

Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum.  It is my new hobby!




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:02:03 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: cooling 10 gallons

Joel Halpine said:

>If I could gather info on what those of you out
>there are using, and your geography (or your cold water temp) I could
>probably figure it out from there.

I still do partial boils, so I don't need more than an immersion
chiller, but my water temp (city water), late in the afternoon of a
day that was ~70F, is 49F.  (This is a heat wave - it's been much
colder the past couple of months.)  In the summer it (the water) runs
much warmer, though.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:04:59 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Color of iodophor solution

Kevin Elsken asked:

>In the
>past I have mixed up my sanitizing solution to get a 12.5 ppm iodine
>level, and the color was a light amber, or so I thought.  Anyway, after
>seeing my solution was weak (some say I was born a few PPM short...), I
>added more iodine till the test paper showed a nominal 12.5 ppm level.
>Now the solution is more the color of apple cider.

>What gives?  Should it be that dark, or are the test papers unreliable?
>Perhaps they are made by the same people who make the iodophor ;-)...

I believe the ROT is 2 caps full in 5 gallons of water for a 12.5 ppm
solution.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:54:59 -0500
From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com
Subject: Chemical "Grades"

AJ mentions suitable chemical grades for brewing.  Can anyone point me 
toward a description of the various chemical grades?  I know that "USP" is 
fine for consumption (at least for those things intended for consumption), 
but how do "reagent", "laboratory", "industrial", and "toxic waste" grades 
rank?

Thanks!
Mark in Kalamazoo


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:13:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Klein

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

One question for those who have done more than toss a Klein book or
calendar aside once the first hernia from laughter ensued: Has he ever
found a beer that he didn't "enjoy"? One with a disgusting undertow, or,
perhaps, one veined with putrifaction? Perhaps subtle excrement notes
mid-bottle that are at once vegetal and rose scented? Maybe one with a
riptide of rotting fish, having a windshear of garbage nuanced nicely upon
the continental drift of doggy-dew subflavors dancing like spiked
shoe-clad rhinoceri upon the uvula? :^)

Steve makes some good points, but it must be more purposeful than
whimsical or fanciful. It is just as bad if your description is rendered
meaningless by immersion in drivel or, more to the point, if your intended
audience cannot connect with your descriptions - just as our current
language, to your perspective, is not term-rich, somewhat bland and or
contining unattainable terms. I'd argue, though, that since our language
derives from such things as Jackson's books, Echardt's book, etc, that
*most* of us can find an example of, for instance, black currant as
decribed in the palate of a particular beer by buying said beer (where
available) and looking for the odd flavor we didn't recognize before. And
most of us around today uderstand the british "catty" to be "polecatty"
or, better for those unexposed to teh rich language of the southwest,
"skunky".

Not arguing with you, Steve - you haven't said anything to trigger any
strong disagreement, re: descriptive language, but do you really need to
glom upon one of these Gems before defending Klein's stuff for its own. My
sardonic description in the first paragraph likely has him (Klein)
slapping his forehead with a "Why didn't I think of that?!"

:^)

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 00:21:37 -0600
From: "Gene" <gcollins at geotec.net>
Subject: Re: Stupid brewer tricks

LeavesKevin Elsken proclaims his hatred of siphoning and touched on a great
idea involving a hand vacuum pump.

I have been in the truck service business for nearly 20 years and have
managed to accumulate all sorts of every tool imaginable. Heck, even Snap-On
Tools sends me Christmas cards. One of these items is a hand vacuum pump and
it just so happens that I implemented for the beer siphoning task and it
works great.

Another thing that I found and possess is a little gadget I bought last year
called a "Simple Siphon". This little device make easy for anyone to siphon
anything. It is made from copper and has a metal coil spring and a glass
marble contained within. All that is required to get a full stream going is
a shake. It really does work! Take a look at www.simplesiphon.com. The only
thing missing is a device to filter out trub/yeast. Perhaps some of the
great minds of the HBD could invent one and sell it to the rest of us.
Maybe, that will be me.

Gene Collins
Broken Arrow, OK



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:37:02 +1100
From: craftbrewer at telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: Rate of O2 intake 

G'Day All
/
This post is not in response to the not sooooo great Phil Yates, 
master of a new style of beer called Dairy's Delight. Seems he 
must be hanging arround the back end of those cows tooo long. 
I'm sure he knows the difference between them and Jill, but then 
again, dont they say the cows in Burradoo all have a funny smile, 
with all the SWMBOs wondering why they haven't.
/
But it took an e-mail from NQLD to set him right and now he is ok.
/
But my question is more relevant. 
My question relates to O2 absorption.
/
Put simple (like Phil)
/
If I had a carboy of wort, from the boiler with utterly no addition 
of O2. And then cool it, say to 10C. What is the rate of O2 
absorption thru natural exchange. Now lets generalise and put a 
lot of varables to bed. (yes I know it depends on surface area, 
currents in the wort and all that guff). And I know also that most 
absorption will occur at the beginning and it slows as it gets 
closer to equilibrium.
/
So lets say, ON AVERAGE, For a wort with no O2, at a 
temperature of 10C, how long would it take to get to 
80% equilibrium with the air O2, and also 100%.
/
Why do I ask. Well I wonder on two accounts. The first is if 
one open ferments, and a person does not airate the wort 
straight away, I wonder how long they should wait til they pitch 
the yeast. The second is I wonder what rate of co2 evolution 
has to occur to override the O2 absorption gradient.
/
Shout
Graham Sanders
/
oh - Some fool seems he cant spell. And I can tell you coming 
from me thats a statement. Where I come from, I spell 
flavour and colour the way god (which ever one you believe in) 
meant it to be spelt. I guess we could take you lot more seriously 
if you used metric like everyone else, and drove the same side 
of the road as us Nth Qlders.


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:55:25 +1100
From: "Phil Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Safale SO-4 Diacetyl Production and Grumpy Fred

Alan Meeker ran a very simplistic (!!!) description of Coriolus effect and
how it could be effecting diacetyl production down here in Oz. I can't agree
with Alan on this matter as the entire Coriolus effect is negated (as
pointed out by Jeff Renner in private email) by simply turning your
fermenter upside down, a procedure all Oz brewers do instinctively when
using Northern Hemisphere yeasts.

Alan's second post on the matter drives much closer to the mark (in my
opinion). I did not internally measure wort temp during the furious two day
feeding frenzy so it may well have crept somewhat above the 22C ambient.
This would be due to the furious activity.

I have no doubt this rapid yeast growth had much to do with the diacetyl
production, and I have little doubt the diacetyl will be gone before the
beer is ready to drink.
What fascinated me was the obvious viability of the dry yeast and it's rapid
consumption of fermentables. Dealing with these yeasts is a different ball
game altogether from what I am used to with liquid yeast cultures. The
possibilities for experimentation are enormous. Further more, there are some
beer styles that go well with a bit of diacetyl in them so if I can find a
way to keep it hanging around, a whole new scope of flavour options becomes
available. But how to keep it hanging around? This will be interesting.

On the matter of hangin' around, I am somewhat disappointed by comments from
Fred Kingston suggesting the Aussies have kicked me out. Fred and I were
once good friends sharing interests in brewing and aviation. Kicked me out
of what, Fred?

Fred has been grumpy ever since he lost control of his Piper on landing and
wound up in a farmer's chook shed.
And even grumpier when he had to pay for the chooks.
And the shed!!

Somehow, he blames me for the whole messy incident!

Cheers
Phil







Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 23:17:23 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Subject: RIMS PIDs and SSRs

Larry Maxwell asks:
>(SSR) output from Omega Eng'g, but failed to read the
>spec sheet closely enough, which noted that the SSR
>handles only 1A max.  I am guessing what I need is
>another (external) SSR that handles 20A or so to

Then Ron La Borde gives a good suggestion.
>Too little current (or too high a resistance load) and the
>PID may fail to cycle on/off.

YES, when you build and your system, make sure that you have a 
load connected to the SSR output.  If you do not and try and 
measure the output it will no change state and you will think 
you have a bad SSR. 

Ron continues with:
>This may sound complicated, but it is really not so,
>only 2 resistors and a diode bridge.
>You connect a full wave diode bridge across the 200
>ohm resistor and the output of 
>the bridge will be 20 volts rectified AC.  Actually
>more than 20 volts because the AC
>being RMS 120 volts will actually peak at 1.414 times
>20 or 28.2 volts peak.

This is a good idea.  Well worth considering.  

My .02 is this.  

Have you taken your controller apart?  It may be possible to 
remove the low current SSR and install one rated at a higher 
current.  If the controller does not have enough room to do 
this, you may be able to disconnect the "internal" SSR and add 
some wire to the control lines so that you have the dequired
3-32VDC to wire to an external high current SSR.  Don't forget 
to heat sink the SSR.

=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:25:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob McDonald <rcmcdonald at yahoo.com>
Subject: Siphoning

Kevin Elsken asks about suggestions for the siphon
challenged.  After being a member of the siphon
challenged for five or six years of brewing, I ordered
the self-starting siphon from Hoptech (NAYYY) and
haven't looked back.  It's easy to sanitize and works
every time.  Basically, it consists of a large tube
with a check valve on one end, and a smaller tube that
fist inside, with a ring-shaped seal on the end that
allows the combination to act as a pump.  When
racking, you pull back on the inner tube as the larger
tube fills with beer, and push down as beer is forced
up the inner tube and into your racking tubing,
quickly starting the siphon.  Experiences may vary,
but as far as I'm concerned, this falls in the
category of simple brewing equipment that takes away a
fair amount of frustration. 

Anyone else have similar gadgets that make their
brewing easier?

Bob McDonald
Washington D.C.



Return to table of contents

---