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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  homebrewery designs and another enzyme question (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Homebrew Clubs in Alaska (Scott & Cherie Stihler)
  Wheat Flour in a Wit.......... ("David Craft")
  Kickapoo Joy Juice ("Mark Tumarkin")
  RE: Cleaning CF Chiller ("David Houseman")
  Sankey Kegs Again ("Henry Van Gemert")
  Re: First Post/Alt Beer (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Wit technique (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Wit Technique ("Sebastian Padilla")
  Steam sterilization of CF Chiller ("macher2")
  something important ("Byron's Yahoo Account")
  Yeast Info. APB (Richard Foote)
  Washers not Dryers ("Jason Fredrickson")
  Beer Engine Setup ("Christopher Post")
  Re: mead insults & validity (Svlnroozls)
  RE: mead insults & validity (Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur)


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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:08:23 +0200
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: homebrewery designs and another enzyme question

Hi,

aldrich4 at t-online.de (Wayne Aldrich) suggested to look for homebrewery
designs at
http://www.barleys.nl/index.htm?thuisbrouwerijen  My browser says The Web
site cannot be found

I suggest to look at:
http://pub9.ezboard.com/fbarleysforume.showMessage?topicID=184.topic

I have another question concerning enzymes (Steve?).
Steve tells that after heating up the mash to lautering temperature at least
alpha amylase is still working. Steve, will it be possible to avoid this by
draining off the wort fast and maybe a fast sparge and then continue normal
sparging to remove the sugars?

Greetings from Holland (Europe), Hans Aikema



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Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:14:54 -0800
From: Scott & Cherie Stihler <stihlerunits at mosquitonet.com>
Subject: Homebrew Clubs in Alaska

John Vaughn wrote:

>I have just moved to Wasilla, Alaska and need (not just want) to find a
>local home brew club.  Does anyone know if there is a local club here?

There is a homebrew club in the Wasilla/Palmer area. They are the
Matanuska Thunder Brewers.

As I understand it this is not an extremely active club, however.

The contact person I have for them is Jay Kelly at the Great Bear Brewing
Company.  You might try to reach him at the Great Bear at 373-4782.

I'm afraid that's all I have for them. If  you come up with better or
additional contact information for them please let me know.

There is a larger and considerably more active club in Anchorage which is
the Great Northern Brewers Club. Should you wish to get a hold of them
their contact person is Debbie Grecco (bushy at alaska.com; 333-8985).
They also have a webpage at http://www.corecom.net/~homebrew

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Scott Stihler
Fairbanks, Alaska
http://www.mosquitonet.com/~stihlerunits/ScottsDen/Beer/BeerIndex/BeerPage.html







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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:41:40 -0400
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Wheat Flour in a Wit..........

Greetings,

I am making a Wit these weekend.  The reason for the tablespoon of raw
wheat at the last 15 minutes is to give the beer the cloudy and milky
color.

Most brewers are going to use malted wheat instead of raw wheat.  Raw wheat
will give you the color, malted wheat will not..............

Hope that helps.  I may skip the flour so I do not have to explain it
everyone that drinks it at this party my sister in law is having!!

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC




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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 07:02:23 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Kickapoo Joy Juice

To make the Lil Abner discussion even more relevant to brewing - Al Capp
obviously had a good grasp of the basics, though I don't believe I've seen his
technique discussed on the HBD.

Of Lonesome Polecat and Hairless Joe, it was said " They make Kickapoo Joy
Juice - if it needs more body, they throw one in"

http://www.lil-abner.com/kickapoo.html

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL







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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:41:06 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Cleaning CF Chiller

I give up.  It was still wrong!!??  Maybe if I keep it short it will work:

These rubber stoppers form end-caps for the CFC.  

Dave Houseman



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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:24:53 -0400
From: "Henry Van Gemert" <President at 1Gallon.com>
Subject: Sankey Kegs Again

I've been following the thread on Sankeys with interest.

But I've got two questions.

1. Is a Sankey keg one of the typical half-barrel kegs that
one buys for a frat party in the US?

2. If it is, many of the tapping systems that I am familiar 
with for these kegs use an air pump to pressurize the keg.
If one of these was used, can this type of kegging system
still be used for homebrew, with priming sugar added to 
create the CO2? 

3. And if it could (yeah, I know this is 3 questions), what
would the refrigeration requirements be? Would it need to 
be refrigerated after priming or would it be fine cold until 
it's tapped? Once the air hits it through the pump/tap, must
it all be drank in a day or two, as commercial
beers?

This just looks like an easy way for me to get away from
the bottle washer, but without all the CO2 lines, regulators,
etc that seem to be part of kegging.

Henry in Portage
http://DormBrew.com
http://1Gallon.com




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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:36:05 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: First Post/Alt Beer

Mike <philly_brewing at yahoo.com> writes from Philadelphia, PA:

>Right now I have an Alt fermenting at about 70-75F.
>(That's the best I can do in my apartment in the
>summer.) I'm using Wyeast 2112 because that seems to
>be the most heat tolerant.
>
>I have two questions. Did I choose the correct yeast
>and would the Alt benefit from racking it to a carboy
>and letting it age a few weeks before botteling?

Welcome to HBD.

Probably not the best yeast, although I'll bet it will turn out fine, 
if a bit estery.  Alt is a German ale; 2112 is a lager yeast (as are 
all the 2xxx Wyeast yeasts).  A better choice would probably have 
been Wyeast http://wyeastlab.com/ German 1007 or European 1338 ale 
yeast, the latter being better because of its higher temperature 
range (62-72F).  WhiteLabs also has a range of suitable yeasts - 
their web site http://www.whitelabs.com/ allows you to search for 
yeasts for a style of beer.

The beer will benefit by aging in a carboy.  If you can refrigerate 
it, even better, although as an apartment dweller, this may not be 
possible.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:43:03 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wit technique

Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> writes from the prairie up there 
in Winnipeg:

>Someone mentioned reading a Zymurgy article (something I am as yet unable to
>do in spite of having joined the AHA many weeks ago) about Wit brewing that
>recommended tossing in some raw wheat flour into the boil.
>
>Any of our resident pundits care to comment on this technique?

I did this for my annual brew of ginger wit this year (for our 
daughter's wedding, there were a few pints left and the keg blew last 
evening :-( I forgot to note the sound it made).  It wasn't clear to 
me how much a handful of flour was, so I checked with Randy Mosher, 
who was a source for the article.  He suggested a tablespoon or two. 
It may or may not have added to the sheen of the beer, but I got what 
I wanted.  Sometimes in the past I've gotten clearer wit than I 
wanted.

A hint from experience - don't just toss it into the boil near the 
water and whisk it with a fork or whisk (actually, I used a gravy 
shaker), then add this.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:03:47 +0000
From: "Sebastian Padilla" <sebastianpadilla at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wit Technique

Brian Lundeen Wrote
>Someone mentioned reading a Zymurgy article  (something I am as yet unable 
>to
>do in spite of having joined the AHA many  weeks ago)about Wit brewing that 
>recommended tossing in some raw wheat flour into the boil


The main reason, IMHO, is to get a nice authentic cloudy wit.  Wit is one of 
my favorite styles of beer, and when I first started making it I found that 
after a little bit of time in the keg, it would become crystal clear.  Now 
this is great if you are brewing a pils, but just did not seem quite write 
for a rustic wit.  I have found that a handful or so of flour added to the 
boil, takes care of the "overzealousness" of modern malts and mashing 
techniques.  I also think that it adds a bit of body to the beer, which can 
otherwise be a bit thin.

Sebastian
Tucson, AZ
(I was Rennered at one point, but have since been lost)



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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:18:39 -0400
From: "macher2" <macher2 at attbi.com>
Subject: Steam sterilization of CF Chiller

Hi everyone,

I know this is a little late in time/space continuum...

Since I have steam available, used in my steam injected reversible RIMS,
what I do is pressurize my CF chiller to the standard 15 PSI and hold it
there for 15 minutes or so. Then I shut the valve feeding the chiller, and
let the steam inside condense, and a vacuum is formed. I generally repeat
the cycle several times during my brewing session, just to be sure.

I have a temperature gage [thermometer...:-)] on the exit end of the CF
chiller, and I can monitor temperature there. The steam goes in the entry
get quite hot during this process, so I assume that anything that could
possibly be hiding in the seals of the ball valves is also impacted by the
temperature, if not directly by the pressure/vacuum cycles.

It would be pretty simple to set up for steam sterilization of CF Chiller if
one wanted to, using a standard pressure cooker. I use a large pressure
cooker as my source of steam, but a small one would be totally sufficient
for tending to a CF chiller. No safety devices should be disabled if you do
this though. And none need to be either.

The little rocker that sets the pressure of the cooker, rests on a piece
that is threaded into the top of the cooker. This thread is a standard, 1/8
inch [I think it is 1/8, but I KNOW it is standard]  NPT thread. You can
take this piece out, replace it with a short nipple, put a tee on top of
that and put the rocker thingee back in the top of the tee. Off the side of
the tee install a ball valve and let that valve supply the steam to you
chiller. I made a setup like this during the initial stages of my system
design, for test purposes.

Naturally, between that valve and the chiller you need to use something that
can handle the 15 PSI at 240 degrees F steam. I use high temperature
flexible tubing, 1/4 inch ID, available from US Plastics. But a simple
copper tubing setup would work just fine as well. I needed the flexible
tubing because I need to take the top off my pressure cooker frequently, and
the rest of my system is permanently mounted.

Hot steam can burn, so it is important to make sure everything is put
together right if you try this. It is only 15 PSI, which is not high
pressure by any means. A child's bicycle tire is pressurized two, three or
more times this. Caution is advised, however, just because working with
steam is unusual for most of us.

By the way, my steam injected RevRIMS is manually controlled. I am not sure
how I would ever automate it, as the valve to control the steam flow would
cost MUCH more than I could afford. At least I think it would. I don't mind
watching the temperature changes and reacting anyway.

As a side note, whether mead or cider belongs here in one question...don't
know the answer for sure to that one. But I can tell you that I do know that
being civil, polite and respectful of the others on the list DOES belong
here. I may not be a regular poster, but I am a long-time subscriber, and I
think that many of those in my shoes would like to open the exit door for
those who are unable to be other than offensive and rude.

Just a couple alternative thoughts on the CF sanitation issue...hope they
are of interest to someone!

Bill Macher in Pittsburgh, PA...almost anyway...







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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:47:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Byron's Yahoo Account" <btowles at yahoo.com>
Subject: something important

I don't know if this information is old or new,
but if anyone has purchased a compressed gas
bottle from Bev-Con, you need to get it hydrotested
ASAP. Bev Con was supposedly indicted for unauthorized
cylinder marking. I don't know how long this was supposed
to have been going on, but better safe than sorry, or 
worse. Here is a URL showing the specifics:

http://www.asse.org/govupdate_1-29-02_dotcontainers.htm

If this is old news, sorry to have taken up the bandwidth.
Happy and successful brewing.

Byron Towles
[7427.1, 5.5] Apparent Rennerian?!?

=====
- ---------------------------------------------
The two most common elements in the
universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
- ---------------------------------------------



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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:17:56 -0400
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Yeast Info. APB

Brewerz,

I have been seeking authoritative and complete info. on various yeast
strains.  You know, such stuff as brewery origin, fermentation
characteristics, flocculation, optimum fermentation temps., typical flavor
contributions, etc.  I know this has been posted before on the HBD-- I've
seen it-- but I'll be darned if I can find it now.  

Please help.  This good deed will come back to you some day.  Private or
public posts welcome.

TIA,

Rick Foote
Fretting over yeasts in Murrayville, GA




   



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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:47:05 -0700
From: "Jason Fredrickson" <time2brew at hotmail.com>
Subject: Washers not Dryers

Need some help,
I'm having a hard time finding a source for replacement washers.  This 
washer is used to seal the screw top cap of a quick disconnect for my ball 
lock cornelius keg.  I'm I the only one?

Brew on,
Jim Fredrickson
Everett, Washington





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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:43:59 -0400
From: "Christopher Post" <chrispost@ earthlink.net>
Subject: Beer Engine Setup

All,

I'm a newbie to this list, the US and to the fine art of brewing itself,
having set out in January of this year with one aim - to make Burton-style
pale ale here in Western Massachusetts.  Now about 15 batches later, the
last ten or so all grain, I'm getting a teensy bit closer.  And to
celebrate, I just bought a beer engine and Marstons Pedigree handle badge
off E-Bay.

Now my question is, how am I going to connect it up, and what is going to be
the best container for the beer I want to pump?

I want to serve something that's as close to "real ale" as possible, i.e.
cask conditioned, no forced carbonation, etc.  But I can see myself getting
bored with "having" to drink 40 pints of beer a weekend (beer is in country,
I stay in the city during the week).  I don't know how long the beer would
keep given a "traditional" UK-style cellaring regime but I suspect a decent
pub would get through a barrel a lot quicker than I can.

Asides from the technicalities of what kind of keg to use (I was thinking of
going for a cornie keg rather than a pony or 1/4 barrel set-up, simply
because I brew in 5 - 6 gallon batches - Pepsi vs. the rest thoughts would
be useful), I was thinking of two ways of minimising the potential of
contamination from the "replacement" air occupying the increasing headspace.

One, I could somehow filter the air coming into the keg through a suitably
small (I think I saw 0.2 microns mentioned?) filter, which should remove all
the particulates and most if not all of the bacteria and other beasties.  Is
it going to be physically possible for me/the beer engine to pull air
through an airstone or whatever type of filter is required as well as beer
up the beer line, or will there just be too much vacuum?  Will this method
be effective even if it's physically possible?

Or, I was thinking of connecting the keg up to a nitrogen regulator/tank,
set to no more than 14.7 psi i.e. 1 ATM - the aim being not to nitrogenate
the beer, because other than stout I can't stand nitrobrews (IMHO killing
off real ale - again! - in the UK) but to provide a sterile headspace.  Am I
right in thinking that nitrogen is relatively insoluble in water/beer, and
therefore at low absolute and partial pressures there will be no
nitrogenation of the beer?  And will I need to use a special nitrogen
regulator, or will a CO2 regulator do just as well at such a pressure?  Need
I be particularly sensitive about the temperature of the keg (my "cellar"
will, depending on the season, vary in temperature between 33F to around
65F)?  Has anyone ever got the bends from nitrobeer?  ;-)

Please don't tell CAMRA.

Chris Post
Becket, Western MA

Gladstone to Disraeli:  "Sir, I believe that you shall die either by hanging
or some vile disease."
Disraeli:  "Sir, that depends on whether I embrace your principles or your
mistress."



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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 21:01:39 EDT
From: Svlnroozls at aol.com
Subject: Re: mead insults & validity

Don,

Sure, it's all arbitrary to include meads and ciders in BJCP guidlines, but I 
think that it's mostly because they just don't have a place in the wine 
world.  They really aren't wine or beer at all are they?  They just have to 
explore these styles as an easily followed extension of their fermentory 
investigations.  In a related point, the techniques and tools for producing 
these beverages include many that are also used in brewing, so yes, I would 
most certainly say that questions about them are defintely appropriate to 
this forum.  I'd not hesitate to post questions about yeast for a cider, but 
I'd most likely turn elsewhere if I wanted answers about apple varieties.  
Truly, there are forums devoted to mead and cider, but the readership and 
knowledge pool is considerably larger on HBD.  I think most folks would know 
what kind of questions are appropriate.  Furthermore, there are drinks that 
tie beer to mead (braggot, hopped melomel, to name a couple) and cider and 
beer have traditionally had a similar audience, as workingman's grog.  For 
that matter, ever had a Snakebite or Black Velvet perhaps?

Anyway, even if someone posted a misguided question, that isn't a good reason 
to insult him.

C.T.

In a message dated 8/29/02 9:12:34 PM, dlake at gdi.net's infinite number of 
monkeys at typewiters came up with:

<< Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:06:17 -0400
From: dlake at gdi.net
Subject: RE: mead insults & validity

CT Davis wrote:
>The mead question is perfectly valid on this 
>forum, and indeed, I'm interested in the answers 
>myself, but comments like yours are unwelcome and >offensive. 

Not so fast there CT.  Is "mead" really a valid topic 
on a homebrewer forum?  If so, why?  And for that 
matter, what about cider?  Neither falls within the distinction of brewing.  

One could argue that they both seem to be subjects for
the homewinemakers digest.  And how did meads and 
ciders get included on BJCP styles.  Why isn't 
grapefruit wine on the list? It makes no sense.

Don Lake
Orlando, FL >>


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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 23:00:39 -0400
From: Peter Collins & Sara Wilbur <sarapete at sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: mead insults & validity

Hi Don and list,

When I joined the HBD a short while ago I received an email stating
guidelines for posting. Within those guidelines was the following:

> Homebrew Digest Policy Statement
> 
> The _purpose_ of the Homebrew Digest is to discuss the amateur
> production of beer, and includes all aspects of brewing. Though the
> main focus is on malt beverages (beer), we welcome discussions on
> homemade wine, mead, and cider, as well as other fermented (but not
> distilled) beverages.
> 

Myself, I am glad for the variety. I enjoy reading about the other
things that I can ferment. But that's just me.

Peter Collins
Cambridge, Ontario



CT Davis wrote:
>The mead question is perfectly valid on this 
>forum, and indeed, I'm interested in the answers 
>myself, but comments like yours are unwelcome and >offensive. 

Not so fast there CT.  Is "mead" really a valid topic 
on a homebrewer forum?  If so, why?  And for that 
matter, what about cider?  Neither falls within the distinction of
brewing.  

One could argue that they both seem to be subjects for
the homewinemakers digest.  And how did meads and 
ciders get included on BJCP styles.  Why isn't 
grapefruit wine on the list? It makes no sense.

Don Lake
Orlando, FL



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