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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  RE: Aluminum pots and Bock yeast (Mike Fertsch)
  Re: Large Carboys (gateh)
  Re: Large Carboys (dw)
  Large Carboys, Malt Extract in bags (Chris Shenton)
  large carboys (Donald P Perley)
  Commonwealth Brewery (RUSSG)
  yeasts, metallic tastes, etc (florianb)
  OG in Papazian's recipes (Chip Hitchcock)
  How much lactose? (Brian Smithey)


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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 90 08:38 EDT
From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: RE: Aluminum pots and Bock yeast

Nick zentena asks about brewpots and Bock yeast:

> I saw a good price on a large canning pot locally. The problem is 
> the pot is made from aluminum. Can I still use it has a brew pot?

NO.  The acididy of the wort reacts with aluminum, giving the beer a real
nasty metallic taste.  Stick with stainless or enamelled steel pots. 

 
> Also could someone reccomend a liquid yeast for a high gravity Bock
> (around 1.080-1.090). 

YES. I like Wyeast #2206 (Bavarian Lager) for sweet beers like Bocks and 
Oktoberfests.  It is not very attentuative, so there is lots of residual 
sugar in the fermented beer.

Mike Fertsch


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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 90 09:46:12 EDT
From: gateh%CONNCOLL.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: Large Carboys

> From: Martin A. Lodahl <hplabs!pbmoss!mal>
>
> ... I've been meaning to ask those of you who use large
> carboys:  Where did you get it?  I'm talking about a 25-liter acid
> carboy, or a similar container of around 7 gallons, glass or
> plastic.  What kind of a place (other than a homebrewer's shop)
> would have such a thing, new or used?

I've owned two (the first was destroyed, along with all the other equipment
and supplies for my first brew setup, several hours after purchase when my
week-old car was totalled by a drunk driver |^(.  Needless to say...), both
of which I purchased used at homebrew stores.  After losing the first one, I
did check both with the chem dept. here and with a local chemical plant
(Pfizer) to no avail.  As I recall the price wasn't all that bad, $20 or $25
apiece.  They work very nicely as a primary.

Gregg TeHennepe                        | Academic Computing Services
gateh at conncoll.bitnet                  | Connecticut College, New London, CT

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Date: 23 Apr 90 09:49:09 EDT (Monday)
From: dw <Wegeng.Henr at Xerox.COM>
Subject: Re: Large Carboys

Martin A. Lodahl <hplabs!pbmoss!mal> asks:
>Where did you get it?  I'm talking about a 25-liter acid
>carboy, or a similar container of around 7 gallons, glass or
>plastic.

I bought mine from an industrial chemical supply house.  They use them to
transport acid.  Cost about $8.  Note that these carboys are not intended
to be reused, and as such may be more likely to break (and broken glass
hurts!) than a 5 gallon carboy intended for wine and beer making.

/Don

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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 90 10:11:30 edt
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Large Carboys, Malt Extract in bags

Martin A. Lodahl writes:
> The recent discussion of blowoff fermentation reminded me of
> a question I've been meaning to ask those of you who use large
> carboys:  Where did you get it?  I'm talking about a 25-liter acid
> carboy, or a similar container of around 7 gallons, glass or
> plastic.  What kind of a place (other than a homebrewer's shop)
> would have such a thing, new or used?

I got mine mailorder from Colonel Johns (Boulder, CO) for about $10 I think.


Tom Nolan writes:
> Does anyone have any experience with the extracts that have
> appeared recently in vacuum-sealed plastic bags? It seems like a
> good idea from the cost-of-packaging standpoint.

I've used the bagged extract from American Brewmaster quite a bit. I prefer
its quality to canned -- it's cleaner. It's also cheaper to ship, and a lot
easier to get the last bit of extract out of the bag than the can: just
heat the bag in the microwave to soften the extract, then squeeze like a
toothpaste tube. (next they'll have pump dispensers :-)

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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 90 13:42:24 EDT
From: perley at glacier.crd.ge.com (Donald P Perley)
Subject: large carboys

>  Where did you get it?  I'm talking about a 25-liter acid
>carboy, or a similar container of around 7 gallons, glass or
>plastic.  What kind of a place (other than a homebrewer's shop)
>would have such a thing, new or used?

Try looking in the yellow pages under bottles (odd concept, eh?)
I found a distributer that had new 5 gallon carboys for $11.  Didn't ask
about bigger ones.

 -don perley


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Date:     Mon, 23 Apr 90 15:14 EST
From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu> (RUSSG)
Subject:  Commonwealth Brewery


I got a chance to go to the Commonwealth Brewery in Boston (near Boston Garden).
It's actually a brew-pub. Everything is brewed on the premises. I sampled a
German-style wheat beer, an amber ale, a Boston's Best Bitters, and a stout.
From worst to best:
     (4) Amber ale - thin, weak, and watery, but still better than most
                     American ales. Similar to my first brews.
     (3) Stout - HEARTY! but maybe too much so. Tasted like the barley was
                 over-roasted, almost burnt. Interesting in its burnt, even
                 smokey flavor, but I would prefer some more sublte
                 that is subtle complexity.
     (2) and (1) - a tie between the wheat beer and the Bitters. The beer
                   was served cold, so it had a delayed flavor and aroma,
                   but it was GOOD! Nice balance of light malt and wheat
                   flavor and German hops. It was well carbonated, but without
                   much head. Someone else said they had a wheat beer
                   (somewhere else) and it had a HUGE head, and foamed all
                   over. Which is more common? Anyway the beer didn't miss
                   its head (at least I didn't).
                   The Bitters was also delicious. Stongly malted and quite
                   bitter. A classic bitter ale. It had a head much like a
                   Guinness stout, although lighter in color, of course.

There were many more varities available, including bottled varities (the
drafts are "pulled" from barrels kept in the cellar, (except for the wheat
beer). They even had a barley wine available in a bottle (but not to go *:( ).

So if you're in Boston, go there, it's good. It's on Merrimac St. near Boston
Garden, north end of Boston.

Russ Gelinas
waiting for my freshops

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Date: 23 Apr 90 13:06:39 PDT (Mon)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: yeasts, metallic tastes, etc

Several comments on the content of #404

Ken Weiss said:

>FlorianB referred to a particular yeast as "throwing a bodacious chill
>haze."  I've had chill haze problems too, but always figured it was

If that's what I said, I made a typo.  I intended to say that Steinbart's
malt syrups (in the generic tubs) throw a bodacious chill haze.  Sorry!

He then asks:

>so, which yeasts are best at minimizing haze??  I've been attacking
>the problem with Irish Moss, with fair to mixed results.  Anyone out
>there tried this Polyclar stuff?  I'm sort of hesitant to mix plastic into
>my brew, even if it does stay behind with the sludge, but I do like a

Personally, I can't tell that Irish moss does anything at all, except give
me something to do during the last five minutes of kettle boil.  See Miller's
book (Chapter called "Haze Wars") on the use of Polyclar and Bentonite.

Then Ivan writes:

>	Just got through tasting my first batch of homebrew this week.
>	While the overall flavor / smell / color wasn't bad, the beer had a
>	distinctly metallic taste.  A friend likened this to "cheap beer that 

From the equipment you mentioned, I don't see an obvious problem.  However,
you mentioned corn sugar.  This produces a crisp, dry, cidery taste to
homebrew.  Most extract brewers advise doing away with sugar and going to
all extract recipes.

Then Nick zentena says

>	Hi,
>			I saw a good price on a large canning pot locally. The problem i
>			s
>			the pot is made from aluminum. Can I still use it has a brew pot?
>
>				Also could someone reccomend a liquid yeast for a high gravity Bock
>				(around 1.080-1.090).

No, don't use the aluminum pot as a brew pot.  Buy yourself a good stainless
or porcelain-glaze canner.  You'll never regret it.

I recommend the Wyeast liquid champagne yeast.  But it's a little hard to
come by.  I've also used the Red Star Pasteur Champagne yeast.  It's good.
[By the way, have a look at your CR -> CR,LF option in your terminal emulator
I think something is haywire.]

Florian


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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 90 15:43:51 EDT
From: ileaf!io!peoria!cjh at EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: OG in Papazian's recipes

   Does anyone have quantitative experience with the "betterbrew" recipes in
THE COMPLETE JOY OF HOMEBREWING?
    I have been getting OG's substantially (.008-.018) above the figures
given in the recipes. (This figures were temperature-corrected according to
the table in the hydrometer instructions.) In previous batches I guessed this
might come from having to substitute ingredients or letting the wort boil
down.
   My latest attempt is "Dark Sleep Stout", which I picked because I could
get \exactly/ the ingredients specified (2 cans John Bull dark, 1# dried dark
extract, .5# each roasted barley, crystal malt, & black malt, hops & gypsum);
I kept the kettle at a gentle boil, loosely covered (wort temp. ~105 C) for
the entire hour called for (lost <1 quart) ; and the OG was 1.072 where the
recipe says 1.060-1.064. (The dry extract was M&F, which has been slammed
here recently, but I doubt a pound would have enough other stuff to make that
much difference.)
   When he says "recipe for 5 gallons", does that mean 5 gallons final
instead of 5 gallons of water? (I calculate that the OG would have been close
if I had added another ~3 quarts of water.)
   I know that high OG is generally prized (since it doesn't necessarily mean
high alcohol, just lots of body), but I've been disappointed with recipes for
styles I like and would like to know I'm getting what was intended before
tweaking the recipe or giving up.

PS: Several of you have given qualitative suggestions for faking dark extract
with light extract and treated grains. Can anyone stick hir neck out and
quantify how much of which grain(s) you'd add to a pound of "typical" light
syrup or dry extract to imitate a pound of amber or dark? Or is there too
much variation in non-light extracts?

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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 90 13:33:41 PDT
From: smithey at hulder.css.gov (Brian Smithey)
Subject: How much lactose?


I'm brewing the Fuller's ESB from Dave Line's "Brewing Beers Like
Those You Buy."  For those unfamiliar with this book, most of the
recipes call for the addition of saccharin tablets to increase
sweetness in the finished beer.  Dave's argument is that homebrew
yeast it typically more attenuative than English commercial brewers'
yeast.  This saccharin idea didn't appeal to me at all, so I thought
I'd try lactose instead.  Would anybody out there like to suggest how
much lactose would approximate the sweetness of 5 saccharin tablets
(equivalent to 5 tsp. sugar)?  I haven't used the stuff before, and
would like to hear what experiences people have had with lactose.
I've only seen a couple of recipes that use it (one was a milk stout),
and the quantities in these recipes seem high to me, in the 5-8 oz range.  

Thanks,

Brian
- --
Brian Smithey / SAIC, Geophysics Division / San Diego CA
smithey at esosun.css.gov -or- uunet!seismo!esosun!smithey

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #405, 04/24/90
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