---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Deuchars IPA recipe (reuben.g.burgoyne)
  GFI/Bad News ("A. J. deLange")
  overnight mashing ("Sven Pfitt")
  -cocts (Paul Kensler)
  re: yeast autolysis and head retention (steve-alexander)
  FW: Split Rock 2002 HB Competition ("Houseman, David L")
  G.F.I. Receptacle Requirements ("DRTEELE")
  Hose Length, Regulator Pressure, and Foaming (Charles)
  re: overnight mashing (Gregory Michael Remake)
  RE: concical building ("Bill Lucas")
  Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy (was Brakspear Special Bitter) ("Jonathan Savage")
  Re: GFI - electrical safety ("Drew Avis")
  Re: GFI - electrical safety ("Dr. Michael Iverson")
  Michelob Ultra and overnight mashing ("Bob Hewitt")
  Re: overnight mashing (Road Frog)
  overnight mash mystery ("Tom & Dana Karnowski")
  Re: Chillin da Wort (David Towson)
  Re: CCF dump valve size (David Towson)
  RE: overnight mashing ("John C. Tull")


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*
Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 15:57:25 +1100
From: reuben.g.burgoyne at accenture.com
Subject: Deuchars IPA recipe

Has anyone got either an extract or full grain recipe for this award
winning Scottish beer that they have tried and recommend?

http://www.camra.org.uk/SHWebClass.ASP?WCI=ShowDoc&DocID=2333




This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information.  If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
original.  Any other use of the email by you is prohibited.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 05:16:13 +0000
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: GFI/Bad News

The GFI discussion reminds me of an overseas experience: "Oh Mr. A.J. 
I think you must be installing an ELCB on this sukhit." An ELCB is 
what the Brits call a GFI and I remember thinking "I'm going to pay 
for this some day" as the circuit was for the air conditioners on my 
van. Sure enough, a couple of months later a little rain (it only 
rains once or twice a year there) and a little leakage (water) lead 
to a little leakage (electrical), my AC's were off and my gear was 
cooked. A simple modification to the sensitivity of the ELCB (cut the 
wire from the sense core) would have protected us from another 
episode but darned if those jokers didn't test the bloody thing, find 
it wanting and replace it.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Some sad news from the Bangkok Post of Sept. 26:

Headline: Singha lager loses its traditional kick
Subhead; Lighter brew targets younger drinkers

Byline: Nondhanada Intarakomalyasut  [say that after a couple]

"After making the same brew since 1933, Boon Rawd Brewery has decided 
to make its Singha lager beer less bitter, lighter in content and 
rejuvenate its brand image.

"Starting yesterday, the new lager has an alcohol content of 5%, down 
from 6%, and a reduced hop content, the ingredient that crates a 
bitter taste.

"The move is intended to improve the beer's share of the market among 
consumers aged 21 to 30 years, according to Chatchai Viratyosin, the 
company's public relations manager.
To create a younger image, the company has spent 60 million baht 
[$1.4M] to launch a new advertising campaign, featuring three young 
actors: Dorm Hetrakul, Teeradej Wongpuapan and Thanakorn Posayanon.

" 'We're aiming at young adults, not teenagers but young executives, 
and we believe the three presenters could represent such an image,' 
Mr Chatchai said.

"As Singha lager has a long tradition, the company believes its 
established customers, who have grown older and more susceptible to 
hangovers, may prefer a lower alcohol beer.

"However, Mr Chatchai siad that it was difficult to project the new 
brew's earnings potential."

[Three more paragraphs on market share]

This is a real pity because they already have a wimp beer, Singha 
Gold, which is similar to what they export to the states. The regular 
brand is (or was) a nice malty but crisp, bitter German style pils 
with OG of probably 14 and bitterness around 50 - 55 IBU. Guess we'd 
better drink up like mad before the new stock starts to hit the 
shelves.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 08:08:29 -0400
From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: overnight mashing

Tom Karnowski asks if anyone does extended mashes.


>To make more efficient use of my time I recently made a batch of all->grain 
>by letting my mash sit overnight.  I single-step  infusion >mashed at a low 
>temp, about 148F, with the grist comprised of 20+ lbs >of pale ale malt.  I 
>let the grain sit for about 7 hours and in the >morning I collected my wort 
>and made the brew.  I used Wyeast 1214.  >The grain temperature was pretty 
>constant, down only 4 degrees to 144F >in the morning.

Must be a well insulated tun. But I think you are mashing too low.

>I know my mash temperature was on the low side-and I mashed a long >time- 
>but this is the most attenuated beer I've ever made.  It started >around 
>1.070 and finished just above 1.000!!  I racked it last night >and it 
>tasted OK albeit much drier than desired.  the 1214 is not a >very dry 
>yeast as far as I know.

Wy1214 - Chimay Yeast... so you are making a Dubbel? I usually end up with a 
TG of around 1.014 with this yeast when starting from 1.072ish.

How did you prceed from the mash? Add boiling water to get mash out at ???F, 
and sparge with ???F water?


>Is this consistent with the experience of anyone else, particularly the
>folks who do overnight mashes (actually does anyone do an overnight or 
> >long mash?

 ..... SNIP.....

No. Sometimes I do all day mashes where I load the grain in the tun the 
night before, and heat my strike water while I'm getting ready for work in 
the morning. I add the water just before I leave for work. When I get home, 
I heat sparge water while I'm making dinner. My mash day is usually 12Hrs by 
the time I get around to sparging. I Sometimes decoc part of the mash get 
the temp up to 168 before sparging.

I normally do my all day mashes in a GOTT and it will be down to 120F by the 
time I get home. I start around 154F, so I'm loosing about 3.4F/Hr.

I think your problems can be resolved by simply mashing at a higher temp.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian

"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 05:45:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com>
Subject: -cocts

Con - coct:  to bring together and cook.
De - coct: to take away and cook.

Half-coct: the result of one too many pints of my Big
Brew Day "Maibock Fix".


Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:53:26 +0000
From: steve-alexander at att.net
Subject: re: yeast autolysis and head retention

Kevin Crouch is almost as skeptical of the
weizen_yeast = autolysis proposition as
I was when George dePiro and Hubert
Hangoffer pointed this out a few years back.

>I wonder why German hefeweizen yeast would be more
>prone to autolysis, (for those who aren't cell
>biologists,  that's a fancy word for disintegrating)

Apoptopsis is the 'two bit' term for the programmed
cell death and there have been a couple papers on this
re brewing yeast but not enough for a convincing
conclusions about 'why'.

>I would
>be surprised if yeast would have enough proteolytic
>enzymes to break down all the excess proteins in a
>wheat beer so soon after bottling,

Yeast have more than you think.  Half the
work of staying alive is removing defective proteins
and reusing the amino acids.   I don't have figures
for yeast, but a human (size large) will remove almost
1 pound (400gm) of protein each day (!!) and reuse
about 75% of the amino acids to produce new proteins.
[So protein req is around 100gm/day]
Yeast can also take in and reduce small poly-peptides
(DP=2,3,4) as a source of amino acids using proteases.
Also keep in mind that enzymes aren't used up - so a 
small amount of protease may reduce a large amount of
protein given time.

>and that the pH in
>a finished Hefeweizen would be accommodating to these
>enzymes.

Probably not ideal - tho' I don't know vacuole pH
for yeast.  The pH activity curves for enzymes are
a lot broader than HB literature suggests. A 50%
activity point may be +-1.0 or even +-2.0 from the
ideal pH.  The too-low pH may reduce
activity, but not to zero.

- ---

>My contribution to this discussion is the thought that
>poor head retention might be caused by excess lipids.
 ...
>Lee W. Janson, PhD. writes in [Brew Chem 101 [..]

This book irks me but that's a different topic.

The pro-texts mention proteases and lipids as
the cause.  Fatty acids, particularly UFAs are quite
effective at destroying head-foam.  There are several
opportunities to reduce fatty acids in beer - but
these come up when you remove break, pitch clean
starters, use a secondary and remove the beer from
yeast.

I have to admit that my experience w/ weizen yeasts
(wyeast's and one from Dan McConnell) is that they 
will autolyze *extremely* early and they have a
tendency to form a greasy sludge and not just a
yeast-bite flavor.  I see no reason why this should
be so since most wild saccharomyecs produce
phenolic-off -flavor just like weizen yeast.  Still
there is a big difference in autolysis rates.

 -S


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:09:34 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: FW: Split Rock 2002 HB Competition

This is a second posting/notice that there will be homebrew competition on
November 23rd, 9am-12ish, at the Split Rock Resort in the Poconos of
Pennsylvania in conjunction with their annual Micro Brew Festival.  Contrary
to the web information, judging will only be on Saturday.  Entry fees, $5,
will go to the Multiple Sclerosis charity.  This is a sanctioned competition
and will use the standard BJCP/AHA style guidelines judging all beer, mead
and cider styles.  Entries should be shipped to The Resort at Split Rock,
One Lake Drive, Lake Harmony, PA 18624, Attention Stacey Gould, for receipt
from (November 18) to (December 5th).  Two brown or green bottles with no
markings are required.  Any standard entry forms identifying the brewer and
the appropriate entry category/subcategory are acceptable.  Any standard
homebrew competition entry and bottle identification forms are acceptable.  

Judges and Stewards will be needed and they should contact Stacey Gould
[spevents at ptd.net] or me to secure a position.  Judges and Stewards can hand
carry their entries if they pre-register with payment.  Checks should be
made out to The Resort At Split Rock.  Judges will receive an entry to the
beer festival or entry to the beer dinner for their efforts and need to
indicate which they wish when they commit to participate.  The BOS winner
will receive a complementary weekend for two at next year's Split Rock Beer
Fest as well.  But just entering makes you a winner for helping a good
cause.  More information will be available at the Split Rock web site
(http://www.splitrockresort.com/gba_homebrew.html).

David Houseman
Competition Organizer
housemanfam at earthlink.net


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:37:05 -0400
From: "DRTEELE" <drteele at bellsouth.net>
Subject: G.F.I. Receptacle Requirements

Being an E.E. consultant, I know a little about G.F.I. required receptacles
(like homer knows about medecine). So, here it is.

The National Electric Code (N.E.C.) currently requires all receptacles
located on the exterior of a home, in the garage, in bathrooms, above
kitchen counters and in crawl spaces to be G.F.I. (ground fault
interrupting) protected. This applies to all geographic locations where the
N.E.C. is enforced (which is just about everywhere).

Now, as far a renovations and upgrades are concerned. Most local governments
(states, municipalities, etc.) have code amendments to the recognized
national codes. Many of these codes require all renovations to be installed
according to the current codes. And since G.F.I. receptacles are a pretty
critical form of life safety, I doubt any inspector would approve a
renovation in any of these areas where G.F.I. receptacles weren't used.

Dan in Boynton Beach, FL




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 07:29:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles at thestewarts.com
Subject: Hose Length, Regulator Pressure, and Foaming

Um . . . Isn't this the exact opposite of how it works?
 Doesn't a longer hose slowly drop the pressure so the
beer doesn't experience sudden pressure drop and thus
foam?  So shortening the hose will INCREASE foaming,
right?  I know I've addressed foaming by adding a
longer hose on my four taps.  And won't increasing the
regulator pressure increase foaming as well?  I know
when I travel with kegs, I keep the pressure just high
enough to dispense - to prevent over foaming.

By the way, I just bought one of those little devices
that injects CO2 into a keg from a CO2 cartridge.  I
love it for taking beer on the go.  Just one thing -
the day after I received it, I saw the exact same item
for about $14 at my neighborhood bike store(about half
of what I paid, including shipping).  See
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/subcategory.html?Sub_ID=4362 - don't get one
of the ones that require the
more expensive threaded cartridge, though.  Just screw
it onto a ball-lock (or pin-lock if you prefer) gas-in
fitting and you're good to go.

Chip Stewart
Gaithersburg, MD
Charles at TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 Kent Fletcher opined regarding
Picnic faucet:
> 
> Rueben was getting a lot of foam from his new picnic
> faucet setup.
> 
> Rueben, at 6 feet your 3/16&quot; hose might be a tad
long.
>  Presuming that your keg is cold, and that your
> regulator is not set too high, try cutting 6&quot;
(15 cm)
> off the hose.  If you still get foam, whack another
> 6&quot;.  Typically 4 to 5 feet of 3/16&quot; hose is
about
> right.  The longer the hose, the greater the pressure
> drop, which in turn leads to foaming.  You can either
> increase the regulator pressure to compensate or
> shorten the hose.  When you're not dealing with a
> mandatory length (like reaching a bar from a remote
> fridge) it's better to shorten the hose, as increasing
> CO2 pressure will force more gas into solution,
> causing overcarbonation.  Hope that helps.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:30:02 -0500
From: Gregory Michael Remake <gremake at gsb.uchicago.edu>
Subject: re: overnight mashing

Hello all,

Tom asks about overnight mashing, something he tried in an effort to 
save some time but ended up with an over-attenuated brew.  For the 
past few years I mash and sparge at night, including a mash out, 
then leave the full kettle on the stove until morning, when I bring it 
to boil and finish the process.  Total process time is a little longer 
because the runnings cool overnight and take longer to bring to bring 
back up to boil, but otherwise this approach allows me to take 
advantage of the only times I can reliably have to myself at home.  
I think the mash out helps to avoid the over-attenuation Tom ran into, 
as I've never run into that problem with my method.  Also, if any 
contamination or other problems do take hold in the overnight dwell, 
the subsequent boil has eliminated any traces in all of my beers.  
I've waited as long as 24 hours between sparging and boiling to no 
noticeable ill effects.  In fact, my beers turn out to be the best beer 
in the whole world (just ask me)!

Maybe someday when the kids are grown and my wife runs out of 
jobs for me to do (sure) I'll return to the long single brewing session.  
But for now, I'd encourage anyone finding it difficult to commit most 
of a free day to brewing to try the split session.

Cheers!

Greg
Chicago, IL



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:39:39 -0400
From: "Bill Lucas" <Homebrew42 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: concical building

Joe asked for input on building a conical fermenter.  Especially the size of
the dump valve.  I too have been looking into the same thing, with the same
cone from Toledo Metal Spinning.  I can't speak to the effectiveness of my
suggestion (yet) but I am going to try it myself, although not for a month
or so.  Anyway I would suggest taking a look at Zymico's Konical Kit
(NAJASC)  http://www.zymico.com/konical/ I use their weld-B-gone ball valve
and the Bazooka T on my kettle.  Both have worked great so far, and I will
not hesitate to use their Konical Kit when it comes time for me to make the
plunge myself. I should also point out that they say this kit is designed
specifically for the 12.2 gallon cone from TMS.  However, the part of the
design I am still thinking about is the lid to the unitank. I would like it
to be a Plexiglas or other similar clear lid so I can still watch the action
like in my carboys, be able to seal it air tight so I can watch/sniff the
air lock (don't know why I like that so much), and finally have it be
removable for easy cleaning between batches.  So If anyone else has comments
on that too it might benefit more than one person.  As far as a stand goes I
was going to build one our of angle Iron or some such, and would like to
make it tall enough to be able to stack two conicals one on top of the
other.  I am not sure yet how I would get the beer into the top conical but
that is what they make pumps for I guess...  Just some thoughts since I have
been thinking about the same thing.

Have fun,
Bill Lucas
State College PA,
[325.6, 106.6] Apparent Rennerian


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 07:54:33 -0700
From: "Jonathan Savage"<jonathansavage at earthlink.net>
Subject: Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy (was Brakspear Special Bitter)

>... recipe for the Brakspear Special Bitter. I've
> found a recipe but am not sure
> as to it's authenticity or quality (it looks
> very old to me, but take it for
> what it's worth). It's from the book "Brewing
> Beers Like Those You Buy" by
> Dave Line. 

I have that book as well and have been very pleased with the resulting beers.
It *is* a little dated though. I simply take the grain bill/hop schema listed
for a given recipe and make modifications if required (i.e. ignore the
addition of Saccharine specified in some recipes, increase the base malt
instead of adding sugar where sugar is not desirable etc.).

All in all a decent book. There are a good number of beers in it that no
longer extant.

Bests

Jon
Long Beach, CA


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:28:28 -0400
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject:  Re: GFI - electrical safety

Tony Verhlust points us to http://www.zymico.com/gfi.shtml for information
on GFI.  I notice that the site says GFI is incompatible with systems that
use a solid state relay.  My system uses an SSR to switch the 220V circuit.
Can anyone suggest an alternative (either to the SSR or the GFI) or
work-around?

Drew Avis
Member of Barleyment for Greater Merrickville, Ontario


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:02:24 -0400
From: "Dr. Michael Iverson" <mike3 at iversonindustries.com>
Subject: Re: GFI - electrical safety


To all, 

Over the last few months, I have seen several partially 
correct statements on the theory of operation of a GFI 
outlet and the purpose of the grounding pin on an outlet. 

For such a safety critical item, I feel this needs much clarification.

For example: (HBD #3979)

"A third wire representing an earth ground is also routed 
to all modern sockets & 240vac circuits, but not to 
lights or older style (pre 1960s) outlets.   The earth 
ground design permits the use of ground-fault-circuit-
interrupter(GFCI) sockets which are often required in 
kitchens, baths, basements."

In a nutshell:
1. A GFI outlet does not require a ground pin for correct operation,
(but it doesn't hurt in most cases).
2. The green/bare ground conductor protects against shorts 
from the hot wire to to the case.

The neutral (white wire) and ground (green/bare wire) are actually 
connected together in the main panel. They must not be connected 
together elsewhere, however.

For a complete discussion of this subject, I STRONGLY reccomend that you
consult an electrical professional and the Electrical Wiring FAQ. 

The faq can be found at
http://www.landfield.com/faqs/electrical-wiring
or another location using a search engine near you.

Here are a few edited quotations from the FAQ:

Subject: What is a GFI/GFCI?

A GFCI is a ``ground-fault circuit interrupter''.  It measures
the current current flowing through the hot wire and the
neutral wire.  If they differ by more than a few milliamps, the
presumption is that current is leaking to ground via some other
path.  This may be because of a short circuit to the chassis of
an appliance, or to the ground lead, or through a person.  Any
of these situations is hazardous, so the GFCI trips, breaking
the circuit.

GFCIs do not protect against all kinds of electric shocks.  If,
for example, you simultaneously touched the hot and neutral
leads of a circuit, and no part of you was grounded, a GFCI
wouldn't help.  All of the current that passed from the hot
lead into you would return via the neutral lead, keeping the
GFCI happy.

<...snip...>

Subject: Where should GFCIs be used?

The NEC mandates GFCIs for 110V, 15A or 20A single phase
outlets, in bathrooms, kitchen counters within 6' of the sink, wet-bar
sinks, roof outlets, garages, unfinished basements or crawl spaces,
outdoors, near a pool, or just about anywhere else where you're likely
to encounter water or dampness. <...snip...>

Subject: Where shouldn't I use a GFCI?

GFCIs are generally not used on circuits that (a) don't pose a
safety risk, and (b) are used to power equipment that must run
unattended for long periods of time.  Refrigerators, freezers,
and sump pumps are good examples. <...snip...>

Subject: What's the purpose of the ground prong on an outlet, then?

<...snip...> they're intended to guard against
insulation failures within the device.  Generally, the case of
the appliance is connected to the ground lead.  If there's an
insulation failure that shorts the hot lead to the case, the
ground lead conducts the electricity away safely (and possibly
trips the circuit breaker in the process).  If the case is not
grounded and such a short occurs, the case is live -- and if
you touch it while you're grounded, you'll get zapped.  Of
course, if the circuit is GFCI-protected, it will be a very
tiny zap -- which is why you can use GFCIs to replace
ungrounded outlets (both NEC and CEC).

There are some appliances that should *never* be grounded.  In
particular, that applies to toasters and anything else with
exposed conductors.  Consider:  if you touch the heating
electrode in a toaster, and you're not grounded, nothing will
happen.  If you're slightly grounded, you'll get a small shock;
the resistance will be too high.  But if the case were
grounded, and you were holding it, you'd be the perfect path to
ground...


Mike Iverson
Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
[36.7, 111.7] Apparent Rennerian



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:11:50 -0400
From: "Bob Hewitt" <rthewitt3 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Michelob Ultra and overnight mashing

According to a web site (somewhere, perhaps RealBeer), AB is doing a 4-hour 
mash to get more fermentables into their Michelob Ultra wort. Less carbs, 
more alcohol, water it down, less taste. Not that that is a bad thing, if 
you like such things.

I think an overnight mash is a variation on this: the enzymes keep working 
over the extended time, and you end up with more fermentables.

Hey, water it down, carbonate the heck out of it, and save it for your 
friends who only drink "lite" beers.....

I tried an overnight mash, too, and got the same over-attenuated result.

Bob Hewitt
Cincinnati, Ohio





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:57:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Road Frog <road_frog_run at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: overnight mashing

I overnight/day long mash about 50% of the time.  Your
results is not consistent with my experience.  I can
repeat a recipe within 0.04 SG, either way.  With my
procedures and equipment this is acceptable.  It may
not work for you but it works well for me.  Normal
mash temp. for most of my beers is 152^F to 156^F.
Glyn 
Southern Middle TN

Tom &/or Dana Karnowski asked:

>Is this consistent with the experience of anyone
else, >particularly the folks who do overnight mashes
(actually >does anyone do an overnight or long mash?) 
I wanted to >save time by makeing more efficient  use
of my brew day
>(and night) but unfortunately I'm not convinced this
>method is going to work out for me.





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 14:12:46 -0400
From: "Tom & Dana Karnowski" <karnowsk at esper.com>
Subject: overnight mash mystery

HBD is great because you can get so many responses back so fast.
Unfortunately when you make a mistake it, too, is propagated very fast.

I mentioned an unusually low gravity (around 1.000!!) resulting, possibly,
from an overnight mash, as it was the first time I tried this.  Fred L.
Johnson
hit the true solution right on the head.

I have worked a lot of hours the last 2 weeks to finish out some
projects (its the end of our fiscal year) and get ready to take
 vacation.  As as result I was unusually tired when I racked the beer.
And, also, I am in a new house and this is the first batch I've brewed
there (actually its the 2nd but the first didn't require racking to a 2ndary
as it was a very low gravity brew.)  I realized this morning what really
happened and it was too late to cancel the post, but Fred's reply was first
and happened to be right on the money.

When I rack the beer I  usually put a mason jar on the floor next to the
hydrometer flask.  I fill my siphon  hose with iodophor water, put it in
the carboy, and get it started into the mason jar.  Once it is flowing well
and has no more water I collect a sample in the hydrometer flask then
let the rest go into the new 2ndary carboy.

unfortunately I forgot the hydrometer flask.  I got my sample
directly from the mason jar, which (DUH) is mostly water.

Not only was that stupid, I actually did it TWICE.  I mashed two sets of
grain overnight - one was the pale malt, and the other was mostly dark
munich. I collected both and mixed the munich wort with part of the pale
ale wort to make a  dubble, and the rest was used to make a saison.  I
used two burners and boiled both within 30 minutes of each other.

As an aside, the yeast choice and especially grain choice are not what
I'd pick first for these styles, but it was what I had available. I'm
sure the beers will be interesting, especially now that I know they
aren't as attenuated as I thought.

Mystery solved!!

Tom Karnowski
Knoxville TN




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:22:00 -0400
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Chillin da Wort

In HBD 4051, Nathan asks:

>I have just gotten a wort chiller and was wondering how does one keep 
>infection OUT of the wort during the cooling phase since the lid is off 
>the boiler? Even if I set it on top it isn't going to "seal" out everything.

You don't want to get too paranoid about this, but you don't want to get 
sloppy either.  Keep your brewing area clean, and try to keep the air 
around it still while containers are open.  Keep the pets away, and get 
down to yeast pitching temperature as quickly as you can.  Then move the 
wort to the fermenter, and get an adequate amount of yeast in there right 
away.  I suppose the risk goes up somewhat if you're brewing outside, since 
keeping the air still may not be possible, but I really can't comment on 
that, as I don't brew outside.  One solution would be a counterflow 
chiller, since you can keep the wort covered while using that.  But in any 
case, if you want to be paranoid about something, focus your attention on 
equipment cleaning and sanitation.  You're far more likely to get into 
trouble there, than when cooling your wort.

Dave in Bel Air, MD



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:35:36 -0400
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: CCF dump valve size

In HBD 4052, Joe asked about sizing of the dump valve on a cylindro-conical 
fermenter.

>Anyone with a pre-fabricated one (fermenator or similar) want to comment 
>on how well yours works on sediment removal?

I use the 12 gallon CCF from Beer, Beer and More Beer.  Mine came with a 
bottom ball valve that had half-inch connections, but only a 
three-eighths-inch bore.  I found that to be too small for yeast removal 
once the yeast had settled well, so I replaced the valve with a full-ported 
half-inch valve.  That works fine for me, even after I cool the wort to 45 
degrees to drop the yeast.

Dave in Bel Air, MD



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:16:02 -0700
From: "John C. Tull" <jctull at unr.edu>
Subject: RE: overnight mashing

I use overnight mashing in a 10-gallon Gott cooler to maintain 
temperature. I always get a bigger drop in temperature than you had, 
but I do not have any issues with overattenuation. I would wonder if 
you may not have had a contamination issue (but you say the beer tastes 
fine).

I sometimes wonder about the lowering of the temperature of the mash 
and the possible side-effects from enzymatic activity. My guess is that 
since the starch conversion completes before temps get too low that 
there should not be any problem with, say, proteolytic activity kicking 
back into effect.

Anyway, I have not had any problems from the overnight mash technique. 
Gains include sleep, higher efficiency. Losses have not been noticed.

John Tull



Return to table of contents

---