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Contents:
  New subscriber, Scottish Ale, peculiar cider ferment... (Max Hayes)
  Subject: Business Assistance & All Grain Brewing ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Re: Cleaning Aeration stone ("Jonathan Royce")
  First all-grain batch (Road Frog)
  Re: Aerobic Yeast Propagation (Demonick)
  Re: Bleach ("Mike Sharp")
  conical help ("stephen_weiss Weiss")
  hypochlorite/chlorine dioxide (AJ)
  Entering your own Competition (David Perez)
  "dry" Stout (Teresa Knezek)
  Re: priming? (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Classic American Pilsner Recipe/Report/Ranting (Jeff Renner)
  Bottling in Ball Canning Jars ("Jonathan Royce")
  Mini kegs and other thoughts (Teresa Knezek)
  Re: Cleaning Aeration stone ("Jim Dunlap")
  Chlorine and Stainless Steel (Kevin White)
  re: Decade old lagers ("Steve Alexander")
  Yeast for priming (LJ Vitt)


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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:47:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Max Hayes <toxicbrewer at yahoo.com>
Subject: New subscriber, Scottish Ale, peculiar cider ferment...

'Lo,
    This is my first post to the HBD, though I've been
browing the archives for a year or so. I just figured
I'd jump into the fray...

    My first question is about a Scottish Ale (80
shilling Export) I have fermenting away at the moment.
I'm wondering if there's really a good chance that it
will come out true-to-style (per AHA guidelines and
such). I'm just paranoid, really. But any words of
reassurance or realization would help me out a lot.
Here's my ingredient list and procedure:

Ingreds:
one 3.3lb can John Bull amber extract
one 2lb bag of amber DME
8oz 60L Crystal Malt
4oz Chocolate Malt
1oz Roasted Barley
1oz Fuggles (bittering)
1/2oz Fuggles (finishing)
1/2oz Brewer's licorice root
Wyeast #1728 Scottish Ale

Procedure:
Popped smack pack about 12 hrs before brewtime. No
starter was made. At brewtime, boiled 3 gals of tap
water for 30 mins, cooled in ice bath, and added to 6
gal carboy. Re-filled brewpot with 2 gals of tap
water, added all grains, and steeped for 30 mins at
roughly 160F. Let grains drain, discarded. Brought
wort to boiling, took off heat, added all extracts.
Brought back to boiling while stirring vigorously (60
min boil time from here). At 60 mins, added licorice
root and bittering hops. At 30 mins, removed licorice
root. At 15 mins, added 1tsp Irish Moss. At 5 minutes,
added finishing hops. At end of boil, took off heat,
removed all hops, cooled wort in ice bath, and added
to 3 gals in carboy to top off at 5 gals. Let cool a
bit longer, and let trub settle. Took OG of 1.050
(seems to be at the top end of the AHA guidelines for
80 shilling). Opened Wyeast pack and pitched yeast...

Does this one sound like a winner? I'm predicting ABV
to be around 4 - 5%, and IBU's around 19 - 21.. It's
fermenting quite vigorously three days later, big
krausen, despite my worry about having no starter
ready...

    My other question is about a cider I have
fermenting (I -think-).. It's an apple-strawberry-kiwi
cider, 1 gallon batch size. I have it fermenting in a
1.5 gallon bucket at the moment. The problem is, I'm
seeing -no- activity whatsoever in the airlock. I
figured I figured it was one of two things: leaky
seal, or I hadn't noticed a preservative in my juice.
I opened up the lid, and lo and behold, bubbling was
quite evident. Also a line of scum around the sides of
the bucket. I could also hear the bubbling action
(like when you put your ear to a just-poured glass of
Coke). Put the lid back on, made sure the seal was
tight. No airlock action for another day. Pushed down
on the bucket lid and the airlock bubbles.. What in
the world is going on here? Here's my recipe, at risk
of making this post -way- too long:

Ingreds:
16oz Minute Maid brand apple juice (concentrate and
filtered water)
48oz Dole brand Strawberry-Kiwi Juice (recognized all
ingredients except sodium citrate.. Googled it and
didn't come up with anything about it being a
preservative, though.)
Topped off with Juicy Juice brand apple juice (no
preservatives here, either).
Dried ale yeast slurry recultured from a previous
batch of sweet cider (started in 1/2 a cup of sugar
water).
OG was 1.110 (added 1/2lb of cane sugar)

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,
                  Max Hayes



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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:52:41 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Subject: Business Assistance & All Grain Brewing

Gosh, sounds like Creek Banjul is really in a jam. Maybe we could help him get
the money out Africa and put the money into the HBD Server Fund. Or we can go
into partnership with him. Possibly he'd be interested in investing in an HBD
Brewpub.... just think of all the cool brewing equipment we could get with
that money. But remember, absolute secrecy is required.... so don't tell
anyone. ;-)

On a more beery note, I too am ready to make the jump to all grain brewing.
I've been brewing now for 5+ years & have been doing partial mash beers with
pretty damn good results. I'm not sure why I haven't made the jump before....
mostly fear & laziness. Fear that I'll have to go through a learning curve
period where my beer won't be as good as I'm used to, and laziness needs no
explanation. But I've gradually gathered all the equipment I need.  I've been
brewing outside with a burner & converted keg for several years. Anyhow, I'm
looking forward to the increased control over my beer, the reduced cost of all
grain, and all the fun that I've been missing with stuck mashes, incomplete
conversion, etc. So my next batch will be my first venture into all grain,
probably a fairly simply pale ale. As Kevin suggests, I want to keep it simple
so that I can more easily detect and understand the problems & issues I may
(will) encounter.

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL






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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:29:02 -0500
From: "Jonathan Royce" <jtroyce at directvinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Aeration stone

Dennis Collins wrote:
>Chlorine will corrode stainless steel(and most everything else).  I'm not
>sure what the effect will be on a porous item like the stone, but it
>probably isn't desired.

and

Domenick Venezia wrote:

"If I recall correctly, the issue with bleach and stainless is mostly at the
air/liquid interface, and in letting drops of bleach evaporate on a
stainless surface.  This raises the local solute concentration and can
cause pitting.  I doubt that a 30 minute soak in weak bleach will hurt
a stainless aeration stone.  Just make sure to get all the air out of the
stone."

I've never heard of the air/liquid interface issue (but that doesn't mean it
isn't true), but I know that pharmaceutical companies clean stainless with
bleach (and other chemicals) all the time. There are several things that
people need to be concerned with. First, what type of stainless are you
using? 304 is much more prone to pitting from bleach than 316. Second, have
you changed the pH of the bleach solution? A typical sanitizing solution of
bleach in water has a pH of about 10, IIRC. In this case, most of the bleach
is in the non-protonated form of OCl-. 316 stainless can withstand
reasonable exposure times (30-60 minutes) at elevated temperatures (like
50 degrees C), but the bleach should not be allowed to stand for prolonged
periods
(i.e. days). Corrosion of even 316 stainless is accelerated by bleach
solutions in which the pH has been lowered to neutral (7) or lower. This is
because the hypochlorite ions form hypochlorous acid, which is much more
aggressive. Even so, short exposure times (less than 1 hour) should be
acceptable. Finally, there is the issue of exposed welds, which are always
more prone to corrosion than the stainless steel itself. (Although I assume
that aeration stones do not have welds ;) )

Somone may have already posted this, but I thought this was a good, general
article on stainless steel care, although I would argue that the information
on bleach is too general and could include some of the details that I posted
above.

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.4/millspaw.html

HTH,
Jon




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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:59:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Road Frog <road_frog_run at yahoo.com>
Subject: First all-grain batch

Guess I sort of agree/disagree with Kevin Crouch on
your first all-grain batch.  Hope it is not to late,
or someone gets something out of this.

1.  Brew something simple!  We agree.
2.  Brew something you like.
3.  Brew something you have experience with.

My first all-grain was a tripel (I go with strength
argument on the name).  All Belgian 2 row, some hops,
simple.  I love Belgian beers, and had brewed some
partial mash batches.  My thinking was if my
extraction was way low I'd end up with a SG of 1.060
instead of 1.080.  I had plenty of yeast left from a
Wit.  

I used the first batch to get a handle on time, what
to do when, and extract efficiency.  After you are
comfortable with that then I would do a batch like
Kevin recommends.

Winter Warmer in the Tun,
Better run,
Glyn Crossno in Estill Springs, TN



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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:14:40 -0800
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: Aerobic Yeast Propagation

Fred and Steve both suggest that "ideally" aerated yeast propagation should
be accomplished without raising the glucose concentration above 0.4% to
avoid respiratory repression.  

Respiratory repression will result in fermentation and the creation of
alcohol even in the presence of oxygen, however, once the glucose
concentration falls below the repression levels the yeast will use the
available oxygen to metabolize the alcohol they previously produced.  This
is an evolutionary strategy of the yeast to quickly out-compete and poison
(or inhibit) their bacterial competitors.  In a rich food source they
quickly convert the sugar to alcohol, which their competitors can not
utilize and may find poisonous, then they have free rein to consume the
alcohol.  In a sense they put the rich food source in the alcohol bank
where only they can get to it.  

My question is, what is the difference between the yeast going directly
from glucose to CO2 + H2O by avoiding respiratory repression, and, going
from glucose to ethanol to CO2 + H2O using respiratory repression?

What is the wort specific gravity repression limit?  My rough calculation
based on 10% wort solids being monosaccharides yields about 1.016.

Cheers!

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax
Seattle, WA
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com



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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:11:30 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bleach

Kevin Boyer talks about liquid chlorine...

"This is changing with the recent threats.  Many municipalities and MUD
districts are converting over to bleach from liquid chlorine (gas) for
safety reasons.  It's much more difficult to gas a huge population area
when you have to physically mix two chemicals (bleach and an acid) as
opposed to just opening one tank.

"I think the lead in chlorine gas releases may have changed a couple of
months ago when a rail tank car of cl gas escaped up in MO when a
loading hose broke.  You should see the video."



I built and installed the controls for a 25 ton liquid chlorine tank
and another 25 ton sulfur dioxide tank that were side-by-side (you
could touch both tanks at the same time) and used for a
chlorination/dechlorination system at a wastewater plant.  This was
around 1991 or so, IIRC. Even then, the possibility of intentional
destructive release was considered.  One scenario was the crashing of
an aircraft into it.  All I can say is I wouldn't want to be anywhere
near if both those tank blew up.  The chlorine/sulfur dioxide reaction
is pretty fast, I think, and no matter which one was left over, it
wouldn't be healthy.

Other comments about chlorine dioxide being used as a municipal
sanitizer are very interesting, though.  I believe yeast are fairly
tolerant of it--someone correct me if I'm wrong.   I believe the Sep/Oct
issue of the New Brewer described a yeast washing technique that
utilized chlorine dioxide, because it is effective against spoilage
bacteria, but not harmful to yeast.  If that's the case, and if your
municipality used chlorine dioxide, perhaps it wouldn't be necessary
to dechlorinate at all.  Of course the flavor interactions may still be
a problem--I don't know how stable or reactive it is.

I'm betting, however, that the municipalities that do use Chlorine
Dioxide get it from an acid reaction with sodium chlorite, the same
as we would if we used it for yeast washing.  Star-Xene and DioxyChlor
are commercial sources.

Regards,
Mike Sharp







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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:31:44 -0500
From: "stephen_weiss Weiss" <Stephen_Weiss at msn.com>
Subject: conical help

Go cheep!
Buy the hopper only, make a Plexiglas top at home, make a seal from silicone
aquarium tubing held on with silicone sealant, buy a step drill at home
depot and drill a hole for the dump valve, buy a conical dump valve from
zymeco.  Use a nylon screw-on fitting over the valve that has a 1/2 OD hose
barb on the end.  A stainless steel racking cane should fit snug inside.
For transfer sanitize all and have clamped tubing off a 6" piece of the ss
racking cane.  Screw on the nylon adapter with the cane stuck in it.  Open
the dump valve, slide in the cane 4".  Open the valve and you have clean
beer.  Better then a racking arm and an extra hole!.

Steve


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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:06:51 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: hypochlorite/chlorine dioxide

A couple of things on bleach. First, the drops aquarists use are 
effective in combatting chlorine/chloramine (the aquarist must also deal 
with the ammonia released in the case of chloramine but the brewer need 
not worry about this) and are, to the best of my knowledge, usually 
photographer's hypo (sodium thiosulfate). I don't recommend the use of 
either photographer's hypo or aquarium products for the reason Don 
mentions. They are not food grade. Why fiddle with them when food grade 
Campden tablets are available at your homebrew suppliers (and why give 
your money to the pet fish or photography industry when you homebrew 
dealer needs your support)? An FDA approved source of a suitable 
reducing agent would be campers' water purification kits that use 
chlorine or iodine compounds to disinfect and then a reducing agent to 
"neutralize" the iodine or chlorine.

 Second on bleach, 15 trade percent is about the maximum the industry 
produces (bad memory on the 50 number I threw out yesterday). The issue 
is stability - stronger solutions throw sodium chloride, lose their 
disinfection capability over time quicker, are more susceptible to 
degradation by light and so on. On to chlorine dioxide. As was suggested 
it is a gas and stays a gas in solution (i.e. doesn't react with wataer 
the way chloine does) so that boiling should remove it. When it does its 
job (i.e. oxidizing something) chlorite ion is produced. The water 
treamement plant is supposed to remove this (which they can readily do 
with the same group of reduced sulfer compounds we've been talking 
about) but if you are nervous about these residuals or want to remove 
chlorine dioxide without boiling Campden tablets (or metabite powder 
from a wine making supply shop) should do the job. The results are 
sulfate ion and chloride ion in concentrations so small that they 
shouldn't appreciably change the character of you water's ion profile. 
Note: I have no experience with chlorine dioxide dosed water so you may 
want to consider that before accepting what I'm suggesting.

A.J.



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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:03:54 -0500
From: David Perez <perez at gator.net>
Subject: Entering your own Competition

As you have seen posted on a previous HBD, Hogtown Brewers is hosting 
the AHA Club Only Fruit, Spice, Herb and Veggie competition next month. 
Our dilemma is, we have several members who would like our club to 
submit an entry into the competition. Do you think it is appropriate for 
the organizing club to enter such a small competition? We of course will 
follow all standards to assure anonymity and prevent someone from 
judging their own beer. We know this is common practice in regular sized 
competitions, but some of us (read me) have some concerns about such a 
small competition.

Thanks,

Dave Perez
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL










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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:11:44 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: "dry" Stout

OK... I tried my first batch last night. It was in the primary 
fermenter for 5 days, the secondary for a week, and sitting in the 
bottles for 12 days. An irish stout kit, with espresso added, and 
primed with molasses. :-) I opened a bottle, and it went "FSST" when 
the seal broke, just like it should. It smelled great when I poured 
it into a glass, and had a nice, dark, thick head... strong flavor 
(could probably do with a bit more mellowing time), but good! Very 
tasty beer. I immediately sat down and designed a label for it, and 
congratulated myself heartily.

However, as the evening wore on, I began to notice something... my 
boyfriend was the first to mention it, and after 14 beers between the 
two of us, it was indisputable. It looked like beer, it tasted like 
beer, it smelled like beer, but you could tote a case of this stuff 
into a dry county anywhere in the US, and probably legally sell it to 
children. ;-) I'm thinking of changing the name from Seismic Stout to 
Sharp's Stout. hehehe. No noticeable alcohol content.

I'm assuming the only possible cause of this is that the fermentation 
did not complete properly? I know it bubbled like mad the first day, 
to the point of overflowing and partially clogging the airlock. I 
rinsed the airlock and re-sanitized it, put it back on the fermenter, 
and saw that it was still bubbling slowly. It continued to bubble a 
bit through the second day... and then just sort of sat there for 
three days before I racked it to secondary. (This was using Muntons 
dry yeast... 1 packet, rehydrated before pitching. I looked for info 
online, and found a couple of mentions of this yeast being a 
notorious fast fermenter, so I didn't think anything of it.)

Unless I totally screwed up the hydrometer readings, the OG was 
around 050, and the FG (after a week in secondary, just before 
bottling) was around 021-022. However, I say "around" those readings, 
because it seems if those readings were correct, there would be some 
alcohol in those bottles. ;-)

I'm doing an amber ale this weekend, and I'm hoping if I'm more 
careful to lower the pitching temperature (it was around 80degF last 
time), and try to keep the fermenter a little cooler this time (the 
sticky thermometer on the bucket read 76-78degF during the first two 
days of fermentation last time, and dropped to a steady 68degF for 
the rest of the time), my yeast may do a bit more work on this batch?

Also, what does everyone think about priming with honey for the 
amber? The molasses/espresso mix on the stout worked great for 
carbonation & flavor, and I like the idea of using different priming 
solutions for different flavors...
- -- 
:: Teresa ::
http://www.mivox.com/

"Men are not prisoners of fate,
but only prisoners of their own minds."
	-- Franklin D. Roosevelt


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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:17:49 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: priming?

"greg man" <dropthebeer at hotmail.com> asks:

>How fermentable is belgin dark candy sugar? I can usually prime my beers
>with 2 quarts of 1.040 starters. That seems to work good!
>
>Now am I wrong in assuming that 1 lb of sugar will give a 1.040 gravity in
>one gallon? Then if that's true I could use 1/2 to 3/4 candy sugar in say
>1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon of water.
>
>If its 70-75% fermentable than that would give me the desired result,
>plus I will be adding a quart of fully fermented beer(for a little more
>active yeast)

Although John Palmer says that candy sugar is invert sugar (How to 
Brew, glossary p.27), I believe it it simply crystallized sucrose. 
Pierre Rajotte (Belgian Ale. p. 65) confirms, writing "Candi sugar is 
made up of 99 percent dry matter, and it contains 99 percent sucrose."

That would make it virtually 100% fermentable (well, maybe 99%), and 
a pound of anhydrous sugar (no water molecules attached to the sugar 
molecules) in a gallon of solution should be 1.046.

So you can prime with candy/candi sugar the same as with dextrose.

Hope this helps.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:43:35 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Classic American Pilsner Recipe/Report/Ranting

"Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at bellsouth.net> writes

>As a variation on this method, place the full keg on a counter,
>table, or somewhere else higher than the receiving keg. Add just
>enough gas to get the flow started, and then connect a line between
>the two gas in fittings. The beer will siphon under pressure without
>the need to intermittently relieve pressure and without the need to
>add additional gas.

Hey - that's clever.  You are just siphoning.  No matter that the 
contents of both kegs may be under 10 psi or whatever.  I like that. 
Elegant.  It's easier and it saves gas, too.

There is a practical problem for me.  I let my beer settle clear on 
the floor of a cellar closet or in a deep freeze, so if I lifted the 
keg to a counter, I suspect I'd roil the sediment and would not have 
clear beer.  I might be able to let it settle for an hour or two 
without much warming, though.

Thanks for the tip.  Hope the CACA turns out great.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:15:49 -0500
From: "Jonathan Royce" <jtroyce at directvinternet.com>
Subject: Bottling in Ball Canning Jars

Hi all:

So, I was at my local hardware store today and they were having a sale on
canning supplies, including 1 pt Ball canning jars. What they also had on
sale was decorative holiday lids with holly berries, etc. This got me to
thinking that it would be neat to bottle some of my next batch in these
jars, seal them with the decorative lids and then label them as "Ready to
drink pints of homebrew", complete with pint glass! (Just refrigerate,
remove lid and drink.)

OK, so my question is: do you think a canning jar can withstand the internal
pressure of the CO2 that would be generated by the priming sugar? I am
assuming that they can, since I remember from my childhood that my mother
put these things in a pressure cooker, but I just want to be sure before I
start giving away "homebrew grenades" as Xmas gifts.

TIA,
Jon




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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:15:46 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Mini kegs and other thoughts

I've been giving some thought to kegging my beer. Now, I'm very 
interested in the whole UK real ale/hand pump/sparkler sort of set 
up... but there'a no way my boyfriend and I could go through a 
regular keg fast enough to prevent the beer from going stale. I've 
been looking into 5liter mini kegs instead... as it seems we could 
easily empty one in a weekend, without worrying about air 
'contamination'.

However, the mini-keg hand-pump market seems pretty limited... I've 
only actually seen one model. (German-made, I believe, apparently 
designed only for use with an upright keg) Would there be any way to 
attach a sparkler tap to these beasts? I've got a dremel tool handy, 
and am not averse to making custom modifications...

Another thought I had was to get both the hand pump and a CO2 minikeg 
tap, and see which one I like best... if there's a noticeable 
difference at all with a keg-conditioned beer. However, buying two 
taps brand new with the idea that I may end up only using one or the 
other after one try seems a bit expensive... so if anyone has either 
a CO2 or hand pump mini-keg tap they've outgrown, please let me know! 
:-)

My amber wort is cooling in the bathtub as I type... I had a bit of 
trouble getting it boiling after removing the grain bag, and keeping 
it boiling after adding the malt extract and hops, but the last 40 
minutes in the pot were a non-stop rolling boil, so I hope it'll be 
none the worse for wear. (And maybe even end up with a bit of alcohol 
in the finished product!)

I'm currently talking myself into appreciating my Sober Stout as a 
fine, tasty beverage that can be enjoyed under circumstances where an 
alcoholic beverage might not be suitable... maybe I can bring one to 
work to drink with my lunches! lol
- -- 
:: Teresa ::
http://www.mivox.com/

"Men are not prisoners of fate,
but only prisoners of their own minds."
	-- Franklin D. Roosevelt


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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:17:58 -0800
From: "Jim Dunlap" <jdpils at attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Aeration stone

Greetings Beerlings,

I have had a Gulfstream ss aeration stone for at least 7 years (~70
batches).  For what its worth below is what I do.  Am I missing something?
Is there a life expectancy for these stones?  Chlorine will corrode
stainless steel.  What about a PBW and boiling water rinse to clean on
occassion?

I place it into my sparge vessel at the beginning of the brewing session.
My sparge water is brought to a boil.  When sparging is complete I refill my
sparge vessel with 12+ gallons of water and boil.  Half is used to clean the
counterflow chiller prior to use and half after.  Once my wort is flowing
into the fermentors, I get the stone and oxygenate.  After chilling is
complete I rinse the stone and throw it back into the sparge vessel and
bring to a boil.  After about 20 minutes I hook up the chiller and clean it.
I stop flowing boiling water in the chiller when it is about to run out and
the stone sits in water until it cools to RT.  I take it out and let it air
dry.  most of this takes place while I am doing something else.  Perhaps
purging gas and rinsing with water at the same time is something I can do
but I think any organic matter is rinsed or dissolved in the water.  Only
once or twice have I ever seen a white fluffy mold growing out after the
sone had been dried for several days.
 .
Cheers,

Jim Dunlap
Woodinville WA




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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:12:33 -0500
From: Kevin White <kwhite at bcpl.net>
Subject: Chlorine and Stainless Steel

There's been some banter back and forth about cleaning stainless
steel air stones, and whether it is OK to use chlorine.

Chlorine should never be applied to stainless steel. In the
presence of oxygen, chlorine causes intergranular attack and
stress corrosion cracking in stainless steels. The corrosion is
accelerated by alternate wetting and drying, and it occurs at low
temperatures and low concentrations of chlorine, oxygen, or both.
The oxygen dissolved in tap water is more than enough for this
corrosion.

For an example of what chlorine can do to stainless steel and how
quickly it can work, soak the metal tightener from a swing-top
bottle in a chlorine sanitizing solution for about thirty
minutes, then allow it to air dry. Compare it to another, and
you'll see that the metal surface has lost its sheen and has a
rougher texture.

To clean my air stone, I boil it in clean water before use. I
drop it in an iodophor sanitizing solution immediately after I
remove it from the carboy and then send about a five second blast
of oxygen through it. I dry the surface with a paper towel, allow
it to more completely air dry and then store it in a zip-lock
plastic bag.

Chlorine is a great sanitizer and it does a great job of
dissolving the crusted muck at the bottom of aged unclean beer
bottles, but keep it away from your stainless steel gear.

Kevin White
Columbia, MD


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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:31:06 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Decade old lagers

JeffR writes ....

>I had two all grain 12P pilsners from 1990 and 1991.[...]
>The hops aroma was gone  entirely, and the hops bitterness was in the
>range of a helles.  But  the amazing thing was the huge, fresh MALT
>aroma!  They didn't have  this when they were fresh.

Your comments on malt flavor/aroma are reminiscent of my description
of a several years old jar of canned wort starter I opened and tasted and
posted about a while back.

Funny thing happened to me recently.  I made a rather large batch of
unhopped wort for vinegar as I was running out.    I used a grist bill
which is identical to one I often use for marzen/ofests but no hops at all.
After fermentation the malty aroma of this unhopped beer was just stunning -
much bigger than in a hopped beer.  Aside from maltiness tho' the flavor of
this unhopped vinegar starter was sweet and insipid and not very nice as
beer.

Is it that hops interferes with our perception of maltiness ?

 -S



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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:11:52 -0800 (PST)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Yeast for priming 




Bob Gordon asked about adding yeast before bottling high alcohol
beers:

>Now I was wondering what to do the next time I suspect this is happening.
>Could I re-hydrate some dry yeast and pitch that ?
>Or would it better to get another pitchable tube and use it instead ?
>If using a tube is the preferred method do I, or should I, make a starter ?
 
I suggest rehydrating the dry yeast.  It does the job, is easier and
lower cost.  I have started doing this for lagers too, because of the
long cond storage sometimes hurts the yeast. 

I visited a handful of Belgian breweries last year.  The bottle conditioned
beers usually had fresh yeast added during the bottling process.
They put the pallets of beer into a warm room (around 70F) for 7 days,
were ready to distribute.  I presume the yeast came from skimming
fermenters.  I should have asked about that.

 
 
 


=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN



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