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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Electric Wort Boilers (Bill Tobler)
  re: Alternatives to traditional kegging... (John Schnupp)
  Re: DME/Grain (Larry Bristol)
  Sparge Arms ("Dan Listermann")
  RE: Inadequate Carbonation in brew ("Romanowsky, Paul")
  RE: DME/Grain ("Doug Hurst")
  Boiling of grains with Extract in Malt Extract brewing or Partial ("Romanowsky, Paul")
  Re: Inadequate Carbonation in brew ("Houseman, David L")
  swirling in active fermentation from _____? ("Jens B. Jorgensen")
  False Bottom Recirculating Troubles (Jeff Woods)
  Possible breakthrough in yeast research at University of Houston (Brian Myers)
  Re: Inadequate Carbonation in brew (Rick)
  Re: Brewing as a job? ("greg man")
  Whole House Water Filters and Local Homebrew Store ("Jeffrey L. Fenton Jr.")
  Bock recipe extract to all-grain (Calvin Perilloux)
  Boiling Wort (George & Lola)
  Trouble with Sparge Arm! ("Christopher T. Ivey")
  DME --> all grain (LJ Vitt)
  re: Quick Carbonation ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Re: Electric Burner (Kent Fletcher)


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Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 23:54:47 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Wort Boilers

Jeff,
  I moved indoors last year and built an electric brewery.  I like it a lot
and have no trouble maintaining a boil with one 220 volt 4500 watt low
density element.  It's a HERMS system, with 25' of 1/2" copper coil in the
HLT and a 7000 watt element in there.  The HLT and Mash temps are controlled
by two Omega temperature controllers, and the boil is controlled by on SSR
driver make for me by a electronics guy I found through another brewer.
It's basically a 555 timer circuit that pulses the current to the element.
It has a simple rheostat control that changes the pulse time.  It works
great.  Following is a link to my brewery.  You may have to cut and past the
three lines together to make it work.  I don't have any experience with the
Brewer's Edge Controller II, so I can't help there.


http://home1.nikonnet.com/servlet/com.arcsoft.LoginNew?com=arcsoftBanner&awp
=index3.html&DIRECT=&USERNAME=wctobler&PASSWORD=nikoneditor_1409905725&WHO=m
emberguest

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 02:21:09 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Alternatives to traditional kegging...

Max Hayes <toxicbrewer at yahoo.com> was asking
about using the CO2 cartridges to carbonate beer:
>checked out their kegging systems. It seems that they
>carry an item known as a "Cartridge Injection System"
>in 5 gallon systems as well as two 2 1/2 gallon
>systems. They use 12 gram air-gun type CO2 cartridges
>to dispense and/or carbonate your beer.

I use 3 gallon kegs.  I've also "kegged" in 2L and 3L
soda bottles.  I usually use the soda bottles for that
last little bit that won't fit in a keg.

As for the CO2.  Do yourself a HUGE favor, just break
down and buy a "standard" CO2 system.  It will almost
pay for itself with the first use.  

Don't believe me?  CO2 is sold by weight.  It would take
189 12gm cartridges to equal the same amount of CO2 as
a 5# tank.  The best price for CO2 on the Williams site
is $.99/12gm cartridge.  Call it an even $1.  There is 
only one kegging system on the Williams site that is more
expensive than $189.  It's almost like burning $20 bills
in the furnace to stay warm.  

I'm not knocking Williams or any other company that sells
such kegging systems but the reality is that these systems
as very expensive to operate (in terms of CO2 cost) and
that is something none of them will *ever* tell you.

And yes, cost savings increases with larger sized tanks.
My 5# bottle of CO2 used to last me about 9 months when
I was brewing on a monthly basis.  It's worth it to me
to drive the 20 minutes to the gas supplier to get my tank
swapped every now and then.  I ran out this summer and I
think it cost me like $9 to swap out the tank.  Most
gas suppliers will offer some sort of tank swap program
where you pay and initial "deposit" for their tank.  They
just swap it when you take back the empty.  They track
the certifications and such so you never have to worry.

 
   


=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Bumblebee



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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:43:42 -0600
From: Larry Bristol <larry at doubleluck.com>
Subject: Re: DME/Grain

On Mon, 2 Dec 2002 22:15:23 -0600, "William Deiterman" 
<william.deiterman at verizon.net> wrote:

> I'm making a bock beer and the recipe calls for 7 lbs Amber DME
> I wish to do it with all-grain. I know the conversion factor is .65 so
> I would need (7/.65) or 10.76 lbs of grain (lets round to 11 lbs) OK,
> 11  lbs of what type grain(s)?
>  I currently have a large bulk supply of Germany Pilsner and 2-row.
> The recipe calls for these additional grains: 6-row, munich, black
> patent, chocolate, and malt dextrine.

"Amber" extract is probably just ordinary extract (whatever that means) 
with some crystal malt added for color.  If you know the SRM for the 
Amber DME, then it should be no trick to determine the ratio of pale malt 
to crystal (assuming, of course, that you know the SRM for the grains). 

In all likelihood, however, you do NOT know the SRM of the Amber DME, 
since such things are rarely specified, so all you can really do is make 
a WAG.  I like to use 3 to 5 for converting DME to grains, which means I 
would actually use 11 2/3 lbs; my WAG would be 11 lbs of pale and 2/3 lb 
of crystal (50L).

If you want to make a more scientific WAG (known as a "SWAG"), then my 
suggestion is to make an analysis of the target beer type you want to 
make (maybe you want to be more specific about the kind of "bock").  Use 
the BJCP style guides.  If you have access to ProMash (YABBADABBADOO), 
then enter your recipe and slowly increase the amount of crystal malt 
until the recipe falls within the bounds of the style.

Depending on the amounts of Munich, patent, and chocolate malts in the 
recipe, you probably will find that you do not need any crystal at all to 
fall within the guideline boundaries!  I guess it would be time to make 
yet another WAG , so that you make the beer the way you like it.  
Remember that the main reason to use crystal malt at all is to add some 
unfermentable sugar (residual sweetness in the finished beer).  :-)

- -- 
Larry Bristol
The Double Luck
Bellville, TX
http://www.doubleluck.com



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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:54:34 -0500
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Sparge Arms

FRASERJ at Nationwide.com asks about sparge arms.  They spin using head
pressure developed by gravity.  The higher the height of the water over the
sparge arm, the faster they spin.  Usually they will spin with as little as
12" of water.  If your sparger requires a lot more height, there may be
something wrong with it. The sparger arm should be able to spin in your
fingers with little or no noticeable resistance.   The ball at the base of
the arm sometimes gets bent and drags against the hole.  Check to see that
it seems straight.  Sometimes the wire inside the arm is not straight enough
causing drag.  Pulling the arm between your fingers while twisting helps
this.  Failing this, you can always send anything made back to us for free
repair or replacement, even if you break it.  Our address is:

Listermann Mfg. Co., Inc.
1621 Dana Ave
Cincinnati, Ohio 45207


Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com

Free shipping for orders greater than $35
and East of the Mighty Miss.






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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:21:17 -0500 
From: "Romanowsky, Paul" <paul.romanowsky at siemens.com>
Subject: RE: Inadequate Carbonation in brew

Thanks to all that responded to my questions as to why my Samuel Smith's
"Winter Welcome" clone brew has not carbonated sufficiently. 
 
First to answer Barney W's question on how I primed.  I boiled my priming
sugar, (5 oz), in 2 cups of water for 5 minutes.  I then poured this mix
into my bottling bucket and then siphoned the beer into the bucket.  I only
used the siphoning action to mix the sugar solution into the beer, I did not
stir, (which is how I do it for all my brews).  Maybe for this higher OG
brew I should have used more than 5 oz.?????  I did not notice any fizzing
action when siphoning the beer into the bottling bucket with the priming
sugar solution.

So far I have gotten suggestions as making sure my bottles are off of the
cold basement concrete floor and stored at about 70 F.  Also to shake the
bottles slightly to agitate the yeast sediment, (of which I have very
little), from the bottom of the bottle back into the beer.  Next one is to
give the beer more time. The last suggestion is to un-cap, add a few grains
of dry yeast to each bottle and re-cap.
Right now I am trying the shaking and keeping the bottles in a warmer room,
(70 F), than I had been, (they were at about 62 F).  I'll give that a week
or two.  If no results with that then I'm going to try putting a few grains
of dry yeast in each and re-cap.

I'll let you all know what my results are.

Paul R.


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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:36:33 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: DME/Grain


William writes:

"I'm making a bock beer...
I wish to do it with all-grain... so I would need... 11 lbs of what type
grain(s)?

I currently have a large bulk supply of Germany Pilsner and 2-row.

The recipe calls for these additional grains: 6-row, munich, black
patent,
chocolate, and malt dextrine."


I'm a fan of KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) therefore I would recomend
using 80% munich malt, 20% of your German Pilsner and perhaps 2-3 oz.
chocolate malt.  Definitely skip the black patent, and malt dextrine.
You can control the dextrins with your mash temperature.  Get some fresh
Hallertauer or be a heretic and use Willamette.  You'll also want to use
a good lager yeast.  I've found that Wyeast 2206 Bavarian or 2278 Czech
Pils both make a decent bock.  In my split batch test I actually
prefered the Czech Pils yeast.

Hope this helps,

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:55:53 -0500 
From: "Romanowsky, Paul" <paul.romanowsky at siemens.com>
Subject: Boiling of grains with Extract in Malt Extract brewing or Partial

I just recently got my hands on the book titled "Brew Your Own Real Ale At
Home" by Graham Wheeler & Roger Protz.  The book includes many recipes and
explains 3 methods of brewing.

1. Malt Extract brewing
2. Partial Mash brewing
3. All grain

My question regards their explanation of Malt Extract and Partial Mash
brewing.  Below are actual excerpts from the book:

MALT EXTRACT BREWING:

"THE BOIL:  Put about 4 gallons of water into the boiler and heat to about
40 C.  Stir in the malt extract, (they state to use NON-DIASTATIC extract),
and other grains, (this would be the specialty grains), but not the sugars
or hops, and then bring to a BOIL.  Add the first batch of hops as soon as
the wort comes to a boil, and add any sugars or syrups called for about
halfway through.  A good, vigorous boil for a period of about 1 1/2 to 2
hours is required."

PARTIAL MASH BREWING:

"Put about 4 gallons of water into the boiler and heat to about 40 C.  Stir
in the malt extract, (they state to use DIASTATIC extract), and other
grains, but not sugars and hops.  Very slowly raise the temperature to 66 C
and hold there for about 30 minutes.  Monitor carefully and try to maintain
66 C for this standing period.  Take great pains to ensure that the
temperature does not exceed 70 C.  Cold water can be added to lower the temp
in an emergency.
When the 30 minute standing period has elapsed, top up the boiler with more
water if necessary, then slowly raise the temp to about 75 C, and then to
boiling point as fast as you wish.  Add the first batch of hops as wort
comes to boil, and add any sugars or syrups called for about halfway
through.  A good, vigorous boil for a period of about 1 1/2 to 2 hours is
required."

MY QUESTIONS:

1.  Up until reading this book, I always read and was told to remove the
grains before boiling.  For example in a Malt Extract brew I would steep the
grains first in a grain bag, remove from water, add water as desired, bring
that to a boil, take off heat and stir in malt extract, bring to boil, add
first hop addition, etc., etc.  and the full boil would only last 1 hour.
SO, why are these authors advising to BOIL the grains with the extract????

2.  Why the 1 1/2 to 2 hour boil???  Like I mention above, I thought it was
1 hour.

3.  This book mentions the use of Diastatic and Non-Diastatic malt extracts.
This is new to me.  Maybe because up till this point I have been a Malt
Extract brewer and have not ventured into the Partial Mash world yet.  Could
someone explain the differences in these malts and when and when not to use
them?  

Thanks in advance to all of those that reply.

P.S.  What are others thought on the quality of this book:  Methods,
recipes, etc.

Paul R.


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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:22:36 -0500 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Re: Inadequate Carbonation in brew

Barney,

A couple comments:

Normally I use a priming spoon to add my priming sugar to the bottle. In
this case though the recipe asked for 1 cup total for the whole brew, so
I thought "what the hell - as long as I keep it mixed ok...".
>>>> Say what?!  The most straightforward and easiest approach is don't add
sugar to each bottle.  Nor add priming sugar directly to your beer prior to
bottling.  I don't know about Aussi sugar but mine isn't guarenteed to be
sterile.  Put the 3/4-1 cup of priming sugar in a sauce pan with a cup of
water and bring this to a boil.  Cover and let it cool while you prepare
bottles, etc. for bottling.  When you're ready to bottle add the sugar to
the beer and stir gently.  You might even add it to a bottling bucket then
siphon the beer from the fermenter to the bottling bucket; this will get it
good and stirred up.  You have the sugar well dissolved in water so that it
will mix easily and well as well as now very sanitary so you aren't
introducing anything unwanted into the beer.

The fizz you got when adding sugar was not carbonation...it won't happen
that quickly...but rather it was most likely CO2, from the fermentation,
that was dissolved in the beer coming out of solution as you added
nucleation points in the way of sugar to the beer.  

Dave Houseman




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Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 10:42:13 -0600
From: "Jens B. Jorgensen" <jbj1 at ultraemail.net>
Subject: swirling in active fermentation from _____?

I was happily enjoying watching a vigorous fermentation in a carboy the 
other day. It just makes you feel good seeing the torrent of currents 
swirling around, whipping bits of trub like a shaken snow-globe. It got 
me wondering though: what is driving the currents? My first inclination 
was that perhaps the yeast activity is generating heat and this is 
causing convection currents. Any opinions out there?

- -- 
Jens B. Jorgensen
jbj1 at ultraemail.net




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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:48:11 -0500
From: Jeff Woods <woodsj at us.ibm.com>
Subject: False Bottom Recirculating Troubles





Can the collective help with offering some ideas ?  I'm looking for a new
wort collection method because recirculation takes way too long in my
opinion.  I currently use a 10 gallon Polarware pot with false bottom.  Two
things bother me about this setup.....the amount of high gravity wort
trapped below the outlet valve and the amount of time recirculating takes
to run clear.  Recirculating takes about 30 minutes.  When brewing a
barleywine last week with a partner, we mashed in separate tuns
side-by-side.  He uses a Gott cooler with a concave false bottom.  In
addition he places a circular pad on top of the false bottom.  The pad is a
dense fiber pad made for attaching to a floor polishing machine.  His
cleared in 2-3 minutes, mine still had grain bits after 25-30 minutes.
It's become my least favorite part of the brew day and is frustrating
because I'm tied to the mash tun for that 30 minutes recirculating and
recirculating.

One of the solutions could be to grind grains more coarsely to prevent
small grain bits.  I'm more interested in eliminating the false bottom and
also getting back the lost gallon of high gravity wort trapped below the
valve.  My idea is to use the metal "sock" screen attached to the outlet
valve.  Not sure what they're called, but it's a fine mesh metal.    I
could also get a similar pad as my partner with a different size to fit my
pot and place on top of the false bottom.  Another solution could be to
make my own T-shaped collection system made of PVC tubing made to fit the
bottom of the mash tun.

Any suggestions ?


Jeff Woods
Camp Hill, PA



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Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:17:12 +1300 
From: Brian Myers <brianm at advgroup.co.nz>
Subject: Possible breakthrough in yeast research at University of Houston

Researchers believe they have observed a new form of speciation -
press release here:

http://www.uh.edu/admin/media/nr/2002/112002/yeast11272002.html

cheers,
Brian Myers
Auckland, NZ
[8380.6, 246.7] Apparent Rennerian



The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer 


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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:37:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Rick <ale_brewer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Inadequate Carbonation in brew

Barney Wrightson wrote:
>After adding the new additives, I was heading for
>the capper when the extra-sugar bottle started to
>foam out of the bottle! That's when I remembered the
>fizz at initial adding of the sugar - and I have now
>assumed that the problem was that a lot of the sugar
>had fermented even before I got the caps on!

Barney,

Highly unlikely that the sugar fermented that fast. 
What you did by adding the grains of sugar, was to
provide nucleation sites for the existing carbonation
to come out of solution. At room temp, not much is
needed to pull the CO2 out of the liquid.

Liken it to when you pour a room temp can of soda onto
ice in a cup. It provides much more bubblies than if
you were to fill the glass with water first, empty the
water and then pour the soda over the now "smooth"
ice. The sugar provided the needed agitation to set
the CO2 free.

Rick Seibt
Bierstien Brewery
Mentor, OH




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Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:50:59 -0500
From: "greg man" <dropthebeer at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Brewing as a job?


Ok here's a question for the collective pro brewers on the hbd. If We enjoy 
brewing and learning about beer to the point of madness, Then How might a 
person (woman too) get into brewing as a career?

What is the entry level? What qualifications are needed? Would it require 
schooling?

I have heard that the pay for such a job is often times modest because  the 
micro's barely have enough money to pay for them selves, So there's not big 
money involved unless you can work for a huge company.
   Of course the down side to that is making tasteless beer for the masses 
but that's just my opinion.

I have thought about asking a friend who owns a pizzeria if he would like to 
serve Homebrew? But I still have to find out what licensees an such would be 
needed in order to do things legally an buy the book.

Is there any advice out there from those WHO DO THIS AS A JOB, that can 
point me in the right direction?

I would think that having a person work for you who is zealous about 
learning an brewing, that they would be an asset to have working for you. 
Just a thought though...................GregMan









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Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 15:24:11 -0800
From: "Jeffrey L. Fenton Jr." <jfenton at kent.edu>
Subject: Whole House Water Filters and Local Homebrew Store

Hello fellow brewers,

I want to use a whole house water filter to filter my beer
after a primary or secondary fermentation and was wondering
if anybody had good results with it compared to an actual beer
filter.

Also is there a homebrew store in Mansfield, OH or near there.
I can't seem to find one. Thanks for the help and advice.

Jeff Fenton



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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:57:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Bock recipe extract to all-grain

William Deiterman enquires about converting an extract
Bock recipe to all-grain, and mentions a few grains
in particular.

>> currently have... Germany Pilsner and 2-row.
>> ...recipe calls for these additional grains: 
>> 6-row, munich, black patent, chocolate, and malt dextrine.

Munich is great for a bock.  Chocolate malt, if you do
use it, should be used in great moderation.  Go easy on it.  
You want colour and flavour from Munich/Crystal instead.

Black patent seems way off the style from what I remember 
of 4.5 years in Bavaria.  You do NOT want that black roasted 
flavor and aroma in there.  Bock does not taste at all like
stout, except for an occasional weird American micro bock.

And six row?  Really?  Dunno why that one's in there
particularly.  Your pilsner and two-row malt will 
probably be better.  (What's your two-row "turned into"
anyway?  Pale ale malt, perhaps?)

Malt dextrine [sic] should NOT be needed for extra body 
because  you'll already be using a hefty grain bill and 
will have a decently high gravity and (thus) residuals.

I'd say use your Pilsner and/or 2-Row and supplement
with (probably a lot of) Munich.  Check another source
for recipes than the one you mentioned so you can compare.

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA

P.S. Just found this link, which will help:
http://www.allaboutbeer.com/style/bock.html




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Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 15:17:43 -0600
From: George & Lola <georgelola at netscape.net>
Subject: Boiling Wort

Can someone provide me with the web page where I can get a Brewer's Edge 
Controller II

Thanks in Advance
George
- -- 
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. 
Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop at Netscape! 
http://shopnow.netscape.com/



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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:31:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher T. Ivey" <cti3c at unix.mail.virginia.edu>
Subject: Trouble with Sparge Arm!

John,

My Phil's Sparge Arm has never spun around ("whirly-gigged?") very well.
Last year, after the first time I used it (to disappointment), I wrote to
the HBD for suggestions and the suggestions included a) increasing the
height of the HLT, b) making sure that the horizontal spinning arm is
level and the vertical arm is vertical, c) using an emery board to file
any excess solder from the stem that connects the two brass pieces, and d)
cleaning out any plugged holes from the spinning arm.  I tried all of
these ideas and it still just poops out--I usually keep it going by
flicking it around with my finger, which I've kind of gotten used to.
Recently I saw someone else's sparge arm in action and it spins around
like crazy!  My understanding, however, is that Dan will replace your
sparge arm if you're dissatisfied with it.  I just haven't gotten around
to giving him a call yet.

Happy brewing!
Chris Ivey
Champaign, IL








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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:53:25 -0800 (PST)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: DME --> all grain


In HBD#4110, William asked about making an all grain bock:

>I'm making a bock beer and the recipe calls for 7 lbs Amber DME
 
>I wish to do it with all-grain. I know the conversion factor is .65 so I
>would need (7/.65) or 10.76 lbs of grain (lets round to 11 lbs) OK, 11  lbs
>of what type grain(s)?
 
If you are trying to make a traditional German Bock, you need OG 1.064 - 
1.072.  I don't think 7lb DME would get there nor would 11 lbs.  Maybe
that is not your total malt bill.  I assume this is for 5 gal.

>I currently have a large bulk supply of Germany Pilsner and 2-row.
 
>The recipe calls for these additional grains: 6-row, munich, black patent,
>chocolate, and malt dextrine.
 
>Any ideas?

I believe in making German bocks with high percentages of munich malt.  
Dark crystal malts, cara-munich, are good additional malts.
Black patient in very small amounts (2 oz) is good for darking a beer.
But higher quantities will give the beer a roasted malt flavor.

Malt dextrine - I think this is the same as cara-pils - its good
for giving it more body.  My most recent attempt (11/99): 
6# munich
5# pils
0.5# Melanoidin
0.5# carapils
0.5# caramunich
0.5# caravienna
0.5oz perle 8.2% (120 MIN)
0.5oz Tetnanger 4.0% (30 min)
 
Don't forget about having lots of yeast and good airation for a strong
beer like this.

=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN



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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:47:21 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Quick Carbonation 

Marc wrote:
>I don't really like the quick-carbonating method of higher pressure and
>rocking the keg for a couple hours on the day it's to be drunk.

and Jeff replied:
>If you don't want to go to the trouble, that's fine, but I don't
>think there is any quality reason not to do this.  And, of course, it
>doesn't have to be done on the day it's going to be drunk.  You can
>do it ahead of time as well.

I don't really like the quick-carb method either, because I always seem to
overdo it and end up with the beer too highly carbonated. Of course, you can
release the pressure and eventually get it down to the right level. I had to
do this two weeks ago. One of our club members got married and some of us
provided homebrew (to supplement the keg of Stone IPA that one of the bride's
relatives brought with them from San Diego). I brewed a dunkleweizen that I
racked from the fermenter into the keg early on the morning of the wedding.
Slapped on the gas at about 30lbs & shook the bejesus out of it. Although this
is a style that should be highly carbonated, it was still way too much. Still,
despite the fact that it foamed like crazy, the wedding guests drained the
keg. We also had a CAP, an Alt, and a Porter provided by other club members.
No shortage of beer!

Over-carbonation seems typical of this method. I'm much happier with going a
little slower - just check the carbonation charts to get the right pressure at
the right temp for the correct number of volumes and then just wait a bit. I
usually get right where I want to be with this method, much more predictable &
controllable though it does require more patience. On the other hand if you
need the beer today or tomorrow, than shake away. If you're going to do it,
try hooking the gas in to the Beer Out connection on the keg. That way the gas
will enter at the bottom through the dip tube. It will have more of a chance
to be absorbed into the beer quickly as it rises up through it. Also, you'll
be able to hear the gas flowing & bubbling - when you can't hear it you'll
know you've reached equilibrium at that pressure. Or at least that's the
theory; like I say, I usually end up over-carbed if I try this quick method.
Still it'll certainly get carbonated and be drinkable, and maybe you'll have
more luck than I do with this method.

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville,FL




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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:59:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Electric Burner

Jeff asked about boiling with an electric burner:

Q: After spending an hour boiling my wort in a below
freezing garage yesterday, I am curious if there are
any electric burners on the market that have enough
watts to do a proper boil?  I would like to move to
the basement to do my boiling during the winter months
and save myself the trouble of either frostbitten
extremities or burns on my thighs from snuggling up to
my kettle and cooker.

A: While you certainly can boil a 5 gallon batch on an
electric stove element, it makes for a longer brew
day.  Have you considered a natural gas burner?

Q: If  such a burner exists, does anyone see a reason
why it couldn't be used with a  Brewer's Edge
Controller II to regulate temperatures?

A: If you get a higher wattage electric element,
you'll want to use an external relay with the
controller you metioned.  It's rated to switch a 16
amp (at 120 v) resistive load, so anything bigger than
1500 watts is pushing it without using an SSR or
contactor.  And when you boil, why would you want a
temp control?  Or are you thinking of this for
mashing?

Kent Fletcher
brewing in So Cal



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