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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  HERMS HLT stirrers/ Re: Raw Eggs and Ham ("Steve Alexander")
  Re: RE:producing yeast for homebrewers (Teresa Knezek)
  Electric beer cooker (JJJ - Personal)
  Hello ("Fred Scheer")
  It's Christmas, drop the attitude ("Wayne Love")
  RE:producing yeast for homebrewers (ShoesBrew3)
  Please! (Pat Babcock)
  RE:producing yeast for homebrewers (Dan Jeska)
  Grants Pass Oregon (Bob Wilcox)
  Fermenter recirculation (David Towson)
  Re: Stir Bar (dcollins)
  Mini kegs with spouts... (Teresa Knezek)
  Re: Greetings & Rolling Christmas Toast (Kent Fletcher)
  long live free speech ("Dave Sapsis")


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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 00:59:12 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: HERMS HLT stirrers/ Re: Raw Eggs and Ham

HERMS HLT stirrers - yes they make a big difference.

The heat exchanger in a HERMS often involves pumping mash wort thru a 'worm'
tube in the HLT. There are certainly other possibilities for heat exchange
but the above is common.  Anyone who has ever used an immersion chiller worm
realizes that additional convection (stirring)  is needed to obtain a good
heat exchange between the worm and the medium.  In order to obtain adequate
mash heating rates a HERMS worm-in-HLT design requires a stirrer to tightly
couple the water and wort temps.  Otherwise such a  HERMS cannot heat the
mash fast enough.

I was forced to think/rethink/calculate a lot of issues while developing an
upcoming Zymurgy article on mashing systems.   Based on this a properly
designed  HERMS comes out on top for scalable, powerful, automatically
controllable HB systems in my opinion.

- --------
JeffR posts ....

>>Having come very close to loosing a daughter

I knew some loose daughters as a young man but there must be a different
meaning here.   Perhaps HBD should spearhead the movement to officially
change the spelling of 'lose' to 'loose'.  Certainly more practical than
trying to correct the Saganian/MacDonaldian "billions and billions" of
occurrences of this typo.

>But the general  population should consider eggs sage,,

I don't hold the general population in high regard either Jeff, but that
they
should consider poultry ova sage (wise, prudent) is  too pessimistic an
opinion of their intelligence.   That they do consider Dr.Phil sage and are
untroubled by the indefinite suspension of political rights in the name of
chasing a tiny group of terrorists is sufficient condemnation of the general
intelligence.

>and eat them without fear,,

The sage go down more easily when first reduced to sound bites.

>especially if they have been handles properly."

 -Steve (with proper handles)  ;^)




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Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 22:31:08 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Re: RE:producing yeast for homebrewers

On or thereabout 12/24/02,  Bob Sheck spoke thusly:
>Maybe, perhaps, you will also innoculate these yeasties with anthrax or worst?

Well Bob, I really really hope you know something about Kelvin that 
he didn't mention in his post (besides the fact that his domain is 
registered to a Malaysian address)...

Because that assumption was just offensive.
- -- 
:: Teresa ::
http://rant.mivox.com/

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.


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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 07:06:52 -0500
From: JJJ - Personal <jjocsak at fast.net>
Subject: Electric beer cooker

Anybody know where I can purchase or build an electric beer cooker 
so I can boil a 5 gallon batch indoors?
All I see is propane or natural gas.
Single burner is ok. 
Has anyone made one out of spare electric stove parts?
Looking for something portable not a cooking stove.



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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 06:33:08 -0600
From: "Fred Scheer" <FHopheads at msn.com>
Subject: Hello

Fellow Brewers:

I would like to take the chance to wish
all of you Merry Christmas and a Happy
New Year. Especially to the JANITORs on duty
Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen, you guys are great.
Thanks to all the Brewers for posting, I learned 
a lot and will in the years to come as a member
of the prestigious HBD.

Fred M. Scheer


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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 09:42:50 -0400
From: "Wayne Love" <wlove at fdchoice.com>
Subject: It's Christmas, drop the attitude

Bob Sheck wrote "Do you really think that the Muslims around you will allow
you to produce
the evil yeasties? Maybe, perhaps, you will also innoculate these yeasties
with anthrax or worst?"

It's exactly this type of racial profiling that's responsible for the World
Trade Centre not standing tall today. Have you learned nothing, but hatred
from your past? It's time you had a homebrew and relax, learn to love and
respect your neighbor and not ridicule due to colour,race,or religion.

"life is simply a reflection of our actions" "LIFE IS NOT A COINCIDENCE IT
ISA REFLECTION OF YOU"

Merry Christmas

Wayne Love
Rothesay, NB.



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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 08:55:07 EST
From: ShoesBrew3 at aol.com
Subject:  RE:producing yeast for homebrewers

Bob writes to Kelvin:

Do you really think that the Muslims around you will allow you to produce
the evil yeasties? Maybe, perhaps, you will also innoculate these yeasties
with anthrax or worst? 

Whatever, you got balls. Oh, and stuff that "warm regards" - In my dreams

******************
  As an American and Veteran of the US Military I understand your fear and 
frustration.  However, I do not support your comments.  They are uncalled for 
and unjustified.  

Fellow HBD'rs we can not allow these comments to continue.  Although we can't 
stop future post's like this one from occurring we can surely articulate our 
lack of support for them.

(Bob)  If you have nothing good to say please don't say anything, or take up 
your gripes and complaints with that individual in private.  Thanks

Comment are welcome.

Erik Rothschiller
Cleveland OH
ShoesBrew3 at aol.com



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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 10:51:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Please! 

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

I feel it necessary to comment on a recent post regarding an
innocent inquiry from a Malaysian company here on the HBD.
Though I do not have any insight into what might have motivated
the response beyond the current state of the world, it was
clearly not beer related, and clearly not within the spirit of
the HBD for such a post to have been made.

This occurence is an unfortunate side-effect of our "low-level"
moderation policy; however, we still believe that this
moderation method is far superior to any that would cause the
HBD to stop should I not get an opportunity to review postings
prior to publication - which, for the most part, is what would
have occurred here. 

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie




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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 06:37:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Dan Jeska <goldenloafer at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:producing yeast for homebrewers

Robert Sheck writes in response to an inquiry from a
Malaysian company about producing yeast for
homebrewers:

Do you really think that the Muslims around you will
allow you to produce
the evil yeasties? Maybe, perhaps, you will also
innoculate these yeasties
with anthrax or worst? 

Whatever, you got balls. Oh, and stuff that "warm
regards" - In my dreams
<I mean, Nightmares>

Mr. Sheck, take a look at that little tag inside the
(name an artical of clothing) you are wearing. It's
probably made in Malaysia by people that work harder
and longer hours for less pay than you.

I believe that most of the posters on this forum will
agree with me that your words are ignorant at best,   
and at worst, hateful to a good portion of the world's
people.








Other than price and quality (which is of course
important), is there
>anything that you'd like to have that is NOT
commercially available? maybe
>different packaging, pure culture kits etc... before
I go out and do market
>surveys etc, i'd like to hear directly from people
who are actually using
>it. any and every opinion/comments are welcomed.
>
>
>suggestions would be greatly appreciated. thank you,
and merry christmas to
>all!





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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 07:37:34 -0800
From: Bob Wilcox <2bobw at alamedanet.net>
Subject: Grants Pass Oregon

My wife and I have sold our home for the last 25 years in Alameda Ca.
and are off to Grants Pass Oregon. Some of the most important concerns I
have, are there any Homebrewers in that area that read HBD? Is there a
club in the area? How about a HB Supply store?  The others are minor
like were are we going to live until our new house is built, what about
jobs for both of us, I guess we will work that out OK but how about brewing.

Bob Wilcox
DraughtBoard Home Brew Club
bobw at draughtboard.org




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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 10:38:33 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Fermenter recirculation

For some time, I have been wanting to add quick-disconnect fittings to the 
dump and racking-port valves of my cylindroconical fermenter to allow easy 
connection of a pump to keep the yeast in suspension throughout the entire 
fermentation process.  My interest has been to see whether this would lead 
to more complete fermentation.

Yesterday, I did it, and then brewed ten gallons of "high octane" porter 
(O.G. = 1.075).  I pitched almost a quart of dense slurry from a previous 
batch of IPA.  The first gas bubbles appeared from the blowoff tube within 
about 15 minutes of sealing the fermenter.  Now, about fifteen hours later, 
the bubbles are coming about two-per-second from the 5/8-inch I.D. hose, 
and the three-inch headspace I had when I started appears to be filled with 
foam, as I am getting some blowoff.  The thermo-electric cooler on the 
fermenter is running full-time, and can't hold the temperature at 68 
degrees (it's now risen to 71).  I have opened the garage door and started 
the exhaust fan in hopes of cooling the garage enough to let the cooler get 
control.  Not sure how this is going to turn out, but it certainly is an 
interesting experiment.

If anyone else has done this, what is your assessment of the result?  Any 
thoughts on whether this is a good/bad thing to do?

Dave in Bel Air, MD



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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 11:29:41 -0500 (EST)
From: dcollins at drain-all.com
Subject: Re: Stir Bar

I have to agree with Steve Funk regarding the stir bar.  Any 
way that you can stir or recirculate the water in the HLT
will definitely help.  In my case, this is in regards to a
HERMS type system where the water heats the HERMS coil/ricirculated
wort.  My system has a stand alone heat exchanger with about
1 gallon of water and I have found that there is a significant
decrease in temp boost times when the water is circulated.  
Without circulation, the water right next to the coil cools 
off so that there is a temperature gradient at the coil surface.
The water here can only move by means of natural convection, 
which is fairly slow and makes your heater work harder.  When
the water is circulated by force, the temperature gradients
are removed for the most part and coil surface sees water at
a more consistent (and hotter) temperature which will heat 
the wort faster.

I used to use a small live well pump to take water from the
bottom of the HX and pump it to the top (the HX water is not
used for anything but heating) which worked fairly well except
that the pump made a lot of noise.  I have since gone with an 
electric motor mounted to the lid with a paddle on a shaft
which works equally well and is a heck of a lot quieter.

Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN


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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:09:43 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Mini kegs with spouts...

OK, so now I have my beer engine, and two batches of beer fermenting 
at the same time, but only one "pull-spout" minikeg to my name.

After perusing the digest archives for a while, I've come up with an 
inexpensive way to get a minikeg hooked up to the beer engine... but 
it involves using the pull-spout as an air vent, so the more common 
(and less expensive) "spoutless" minikegs won't do (unless I come up 
with a clever aftermarket air vent design).

Before I go drop a small fortune buying a bunch of new pull-spout 
kegs, I'm wondering if anyone has one or two or a few they're looking 
to dispose of.
- -- 
:: Teresa ::
http://www.mivox.com/

"It has been my experience that folks who
have no vices have very few virtues."
	-- Abraham Lincoln


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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 16:38:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings & Rolling Christmas Toast

Redbeard redbeard47.ny at netzero.net proposed a rolling
toast at noon tomorrow (Christmas Day).  I second
that!  Personally, time constraints did not allow me
to brew a Christmas beer this year, so I compensated
by getting a keg of SN Celebration.  So, here's to all
of us at noon on Christmas:

"Here's to us!
Who's like us?
Damn Few!
And they're all dead!"

Kent Fletcher
brewing in So Cal




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Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 17:46:52 -0800
From: "Dave Sapsis" <dsapsis at earthlink.net>
Subject: long live free speech

Good Folks,
Bob Sheck gives us:

>So, Kelvin:
>Do you really think that the Muslims around you will allow you to produce
>the evil yeasties? Maybe, perhaps, you will also innoculate these yeasties
>with anthrax or worst?

>Whatever, you got balls. Oh, and stuff that "warm regards" - In my dreams
><I mean, Nightmares>

I found this offensive.  At a time when this forum has recently been graced
by inspiring contributions from all over the globe, and in the heart of the
holiday season here, it is all the more disappointing.  While this kind of
ignorance and bigotry has a long history here in the good ol' U.S., it
really doesn't do any of us much good.  I find it incongruous with the
spirit of this community, and although wholly inappropriate, I love free
speech and  Kelvin did ask for "any and every" reply.  So, sorry Kelvin, but
there you have it -- you are in Malaysia, so you are no doubt a terrorist
hiding behind the lab coat of a microbiologist.
Peace.

- --dave sapsis, Sacramento




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