HOMEBREW Digest #413 Mon 07 May 1990

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Hop growing (Norm Hardy)
  Re:  Brewing to Share!!! (techentin)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #412 (May 04, 1990) (Spencer W. Thomas)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #412 (May 04, 1990) (Spencer W. Thomas)
  Re: Imitation of "Commercial" Beers (Len Reed)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #412 (May 04, 1990)  (pyt)
  Re: Pete Soper on Aluminum (John Polstra)
  vienna malt vs. munich malt (GIBSON)
  Re: Brewing to Share (Andrius Tamulis)
  Aluminum (Jay H)
  Aluminum (Doug Roberts)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 May 90 22:00:44 PDT From: hplabs!polstra!norm (Norm Hardy) Subject: Hop growing In Seattle my hops are healthy and climbing. One of the Hallertauers is up to 10 feet already. The rest are 2-3 feet. They seem to work better climbing string than wood poles. I stake a piece of wood into the ground, secure the string and tie it to the top of the pole. The hops need little training to get wrapped up around the string. From the top view they wrap clockwise; or another way to think of it is that they "follow" the sun each day. This year I have set four 10ft poles in rectangular arrangment, with four support beams along the top. Every 8 inches of the beams has eyelets to attach strings both length and width wise. The hops will then be free to meander along the top of this thing and allow a nice place of shade. Oh, the top beams are in a 10 ft by 4 ft rectangle. Four hops failed to come up this year. Six survived. I thinned out each one so that no more than 3 shoots from any one plant grow. Norm, in Seattle Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 May 90 08:21:43 CDT From: techentin at Mayo.edu Subject: Re: Brewing to Share!!! Enders <enders at plains.NoDak.edu> writes: > So, I'm wondering what the collective feeling of the net is on > brewing an ale (or steam beer) that is drinkable by the > BudCoorsMiller fans, but is an example of something better, > something different. I tried brewing an American Pilsner once with a very light color, light hopping and light body. It didn't turn out very well, probably due to an infection. I understand that the lighter beers are more likely to have this kind of problem. A little reflection led me to the conclusion that I don't really want to brew anything like BudMillobe anyway. It's pretty cheap to buy, and doesn't really warrant the effort required to brew it. My time and energy is going to be invested in brewing beers that *I* like to drink. Anybody who makes remarks about "Brake Fluid" is welcome to keep drinking that Wimpy Pasturized ___________ (fill in the blank) to their hearts content. My homebrew is reserved for people who can appreciate it. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Techentin Internet: techentin at Mayo.edu Mayo Foundation, Rochester MN, 55905 USA (507) 284-2702 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 May 90 09:49:25 EDT From: Spencer W. Thomas <spencer at dip.eecs.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #412 (May 04, 1990) I dunno. The version I've got seems to work fine. Of course, it's not accessible right now, since it's on my dead disk. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 May 90 10:01:04 EDT From: Spencer W. Thomas <spencer at dip.eecs.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #412 (May 04, 1990) > 2. The amount of aluminum that you get from using aluminum cookware > is negligible. You get far more aluminum from a single Tums (or > other antacid tablet) than you get from a year of using nothing but > aluminum cookware. Ahem. Tums has NO aluminum in it. It is Calcium Carbonate. That's it. Now, if you had said Maalox or Digel, you would be right. =Spencer (spencer at eecs.umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 May 90 10:27:44 EDT From: Len Reed <lbr%holos0 at gatech.edu> Subject: Re: Imitation of "Commercial" Beers "Andy Wilcox" <andy at mosquito.cis.ufl.edu> writes, in #410: >Just for the sake of curiosity (isn't that what >homebrewing is all about!) I'd like to try and >make either a "Dos Equis" or "Fosters" type beer. >I suspect that both of these beers are lagers. >Any recipies appreciated! Dos Equis (XX) is a Vienna-style lager, which is an amber beer made from lightly roasted lager malt. I'm going to try a XX tomorrow using light Munich malt (10 degL), Hallertauer hops, and Wyeast Bravarian yeast. I don't know if the Mexicans use any adjuncts; I'm not going to. We'll see how it goes. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 May 90 09:29:36 PDT From: pyt at hprvlc0.hp.com Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #412 (May 04, 1990) Full-Name: Pierre-Yves Thoulon > How do YOU deal with introducing homebrew to > the *unwashed masses*? Well, I converted a guy from Coors light to my stuff... I had him try a bitter, a porter and a wheat beer. I don't like my beer to be too bitter, so I generally use hops that are low in alpha acids (5 to 7%) (Hallertauer, Cascasde, Saaz,...), and use 1.5oz for 5 gallons. That's what seduced him mostly. For what my experience is worth... Pyt. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 May 90 09:37:19 PDT From: hplabs!polstra!jdp (John Polstra) Subject: Re: Pete Soper on Aluminum I knew I'd regret fanning the embers of the aluminum controversy again :-( In HBD #412, Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com> writes: > John Polstra writes: > > 2. The amount of aluminum that you get from using aluminum cookware > > is negligible. You get far more aluminum from a single Tums (or > > other antacid tablet) than you get from a year of using nothing but > > aluminum cookware. > > Seeing as how you've gone out on a limb, I'll join you and we can try > out this saw I brought. Well, actually, it was UC Berkeley that went out on the limb. I was just paraphrasing their article as well as I could remember it. > You have forgotten the drastic difference in pH between normal foods > and wort. As has already been pointed out in this forum, wort is much less acidic than many foods, e.g., tomato sauce. Also, wort is not cooked for as long as many sauces and soups. > What does the inside of your pot look like above and below the high > water mark? Is it shiny below and the usual dull color of oxidized > aluminum above? Mine looks pretty much the same above and below. > And I suppose that the aluminum compound you get from cooking with > aluminum is the same compound as found in Tums ... Well of course it's not the same compound that is found in Tums. If it were, my homebrews wouldn't cause hangovers :-). > ... (with very tight chemical bonds)? Do you have information I don't about the nature of the chemical bonds in Tums? Table salt (NaCl) could be said to have very tight chemical bonds. But when it is dissolved in water, it breaks down easily into the component ions, Na+ and Cl-. If my rusty memory of chemistry serves (now I *am* going out on a limb), the breaking of chemical bonds and the consequent dissociation into component ions is practically the *definition* of "going into solution". > But it is interesting to read that you taste no difference. I didn't say that. I said I haven't noticed any off flavors/aromas that seemed to be related to the aluminum. Neither did numerous judges in various competitions. I've never done an A-B comparison of identical brews boiled in aluminum vs. stainless steel. Maybe I could taste the difference then. Maybe not. > Others have said the impact on beer flavor is drastic. I have never heard *anybody* say that the impact was "drastic". The warnings I have heard and read were more along the lines of, "boiling in aluminum will subtly alter the flavor of the beer in a negative way." I'll accept that without argument, and you may recall that in my original posting I began, "Yes, stainless steel is better than aluminum for brewing beer." I'd rather have stainless steel, but the fact that I don't hasn't caused me any real problems. My argument, on which I do not waver, is that the effects from boiling in aluminum are either nonexistent or so minor as to be negligible for practical homebrewing purposes. As I wrote before, "aluminum is not *that* bad." My advice: If you already have an aluminum pot, use it and don't worry. If you can't afford stainless steel, buy aluminum and don't worry. Direct your efforts and dollars toward the many more important aspects of brewing, such as: sanitation; obtaining the freshest ingredients; proper balance between malt and hops; appropriate water treatment for the style of beer you are brewing; fermentation temperature control; sparging technique; etc., etc., etc. - John Polstra jdp at polstra.uucp Polstra & Co., Inc. practic!polstra!jdp at uunet.uu.net Seattle, Washington USA ...{uunet,sun,pyramid}!practic!polstra!jdp (206) 932-6482 PS - One more thing: wort boiled in aluminum is less likely to scorch. That is why the best stainless-steel pots are clad with aluminum on the bottom (outside). Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 May 90 10:55 MST From: GIBSON at rvax.ccit.arizona.edu Subject: vienna malt vs. munich malt Could I interrupt the great Al debate for a simple question? Can someone out there tell me the difference between Munich and Vienna malts? I've seen Munich described in at least cursory detail in books by Papazian and/or Burch, but never Vienna. Oops, I hear a chain saw starting, better get out of this here tree! Ken Cornett Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 May 90 14:15:51 CDT From: Andrius Tamulis <tamulis at dehn.math.nwu.edu> Subject: Re: Brewing to Share In case you forgot, the orginal posting inquired how to brew beer for the Great Unwashed Non-Beer-Drinking Masses, specifically the Coors- Miller-Bud crowd. On a slightly tangential note, I've served beer to people who claim to hate beer, and the response I got was "I hate beer, but this is good", from my very first batch to the present (OK, the present happens to be my very second batch of beer, but I think that makes my point even more). So, it may be that the only unsalvageable beer drinkers may be those who drink cheap beer, while those who don't drink it at all can appreciate a good brew. Andrius Return to table of contents
Date: 04 May 90 21:49:47 EDT From: Jay H <75140.350 at compuserve.com> Subject: Aluminum To the person who gave that rather confusing discussion about tomato pH, wort pH etc.. This is a rather dubious argument. To introduce aluminum flavors into one's beer one would not have to create pits in the pot by acid dissolution of it. Having done Dr. Beer seminars fo r2 years now I will attest to the sinsitivity of the palate (and to my inability to type well) The human palate is sensitive to some substances at a few (7-10) part per BILLION (as in billions and billions of Carl Sagans) I don't know the exact sensitivity to aluminum but I'm SURE it is well short of pitting levels. To those who say they have brewed lots of batches and never tasted aluminum in them. Sure you know what you're looking for??? One of the key reasons to do Dr. Beer seminars is that flavors are very subtle and lack other stronger perceptual cues (like sight) which help to clearly identify the substances. It is only through practice that most people are able to uniquely discern a wider range of substances. Practice meaning side by side somparison of samples with and without the tainting flavor. If you've always brewed in aluminum you're desensitized to it by now. Unless you have the same beer with and without it is incredibly difficult to isolate the aluminum flavor. My personal opinion is that switching to stainless did have an effect on elmininating metallic flavors. Perhaps doing a split batch in two pots stainless and aluminum utilizing equivalent procedures and the same yeast culture would allow isolation of the difference, though it would be hard to be 100% certain there were no unaccount- able factors this might help to highlight the difference. - Jay H (PhD. Beer = Dr. Beer) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 May 90 00:03:44 MDT From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts) Subject: Aluminum I've used an aluminum canning pot for five years, now. Originally, I used it to make extract recipes; now, I mash in it. I can vouch for the fact that _no one_ has ever been able to attribute any off flavor in my beers to the pot. Another poster's message about the wort ph being 5.4 _is_ the reason that aluminum is not a problem for brewing beer. Ph 5.4 is simply not acidic enough to dissolve measurable (accept with a mass spec, or other suitable device) amounts of aluminum during the short brewing period. I will be most interested in seeing Dan Krus' AAS analysis results on aluminum content. (Be sure to take a baseline measurement of your tap water, Dan.) BTW, Pete: The Aluminum in a TUMs _is_ the same as the aluminum in your pot, after the TUMs has been dissolved in your stomach (ph < 3.0, if I remember correctly). - --Doug ================================================================ Douglas Roberts | Los Alamos National Laboratory |I can resist anything Box 1663, MS F-609 | except temptation. Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545 | ... (505)667-4569 |Oscar Wilde dzzr at lanl.gov | ================================================================ Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #413, 05/07/90 ************************************* -------
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