HOMEBREW Digest #4130 Fri 27 December 2002

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  Offensive comments (Kent Fletcher)
  Microbiology tests ("Steve Alexander")
  re: Bob's remarks ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Brewing with Partial Mash / Extracts ("Chris M")
  hop back construction and placement (Ed Jones)
  Fermenter recirculation #2 (David Towson)
  Refractometer ("Bill Frazier")
  Hefe yeast and Bob Sheck ("Bill Smith")
  Re: UMANI (MSG) (Demonick)
  re: It's Christmas, drop the attitude (Bill Wible)
  Why such long boils? ("Ralph W. Davis")
  Yeast for Homebrewers (Thomas Rohner)
  Wyeast Analysis Program ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Brewing Techniques Back Issues (Bill Tobler)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 21:56:47 -0800 (PST) From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com> Subject: Offensive comments I guess one offensive comment sometimes begets another. While I too, was offended by Bob Sheck's remarks (in responding to Kelvin's inquiry), Bob has acknowledged the impropriety of his post. Personally, I was equally offended by the comments of Wayne Love: "It's exactly this type of racial profiling that's responsible for the World Trade Centre not standing tall today." Our collective attitude has little to do with the fanatics who are still trying to pay back the "infidels" for the Crusades. We have enough Blame America Firsters here, without importing that roll-over-and-play-dead invective from Canada, of ALL places. Kent Fletcher (another U.S. veteran) Brewing in So Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 05:48:24 -0500 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Microbiology tests Fred L Johnson, g >Are there any providers of microbiology, water, IBU, etc. testing designed >with brewers in mind that provide services available to the homebrewer at a >price the homebrewer could afford? [...] I like the idea Fred, but after you invest in lab equipment and pay for the regular maintenance and calibration required and hire a qualified lab tech you aren't talking about a service affordable to HBers. $50 a test is a lot to an HBer, but probably not enough to throw off a profit as a real business. You may be able to offer a service as a sideline business and make a few bucks but I doubt it would pay a real salary. Yes there are services that brewery testing. The big boys have in-house capability, but I used to have web-links for a couple of labs that catered to MicroBreweries and BrewPubs. >Perhaps we've wanted to know if there >are petit mutants lurking about. Homebrewers want to know! I'd even >consider this myself as a retirement career (unfortunately several years >away). You'd need a steady stream of business to break even Fred. Drop me a note when you start up. I'd like to be your first customer. I can save you a tetrazolium overlay test. Respiratory deficient petite mutants normally occur in brewing yeast at significant a rate - around 1% to 4%. Yes Virginia, there are mutants in your fermenter. I'd suggest you look a little farther afield as far as offering testing to HBers and Micros. Some very basic services don't require a lot of hardware yet are beyond the means of the homebrewer or micro. Haze measurement, alcohol measurement, fusel and ester assay, Accurate gravity measurement. I suspect diacetyl can be assayed easily too. You are right that testing cultures for infection would be a great service, but maybe a more profitable approach would be to make up and sell kits of plates with the differential media used to ID infection + instructions. Same with vitality & viability measurement. You can't send a yeast sample in the mail and expect to get the answer as to the viability & vitality at the time of posting, but if you could create a V&V test kit that the Microbrewer or HBer could easily and safely use for a decent price you'd have something with a lot of sales potential. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 07:04:18 -0500 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: re: Bob's remarks I just want to make one comment about Bob's remarks. And it's not directed at Bob, or his remarks, but rather toward the response from the HBD community. Frequently, people react to these types of hateful & prejudiced remarks by shaking their heads in dismay; but often nothing is said out loud. The reaction of our group was overwhelming, quick, and vocal. A good number of people were not shy in pointing out the error of Bob's ways and clearly showing that the HBD won't tolerate that type of behavior. We know that the HBD is the an awesome resource in terms of brewing knowledge and the willingness to share it. This incident shows the strength & quality that runs deep in our brewing community. Thanks to all of you that spoke out. Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 23:41:14 +1100 From: "Chris M" <chrismac_aus at hotmail.com> Subject: Brewing with Partial Mash / Extracts Hi, I have been brewing using Can's over the past 12 months and am looking to move onto Partial Mashing with Extracts to provide some complexity to the beers i brew, particularly in terms of style. I have read the following document " Focus on Ingredients - Malt I Converting All-Grain Recipes to Extract Partial Mash 1998 by Ken Schwartz kenbob at elp.rr.com Presented at the AHA National ... " Are there similar documents or sites i can use to learn more about this process of brewing, in particular boil times and hopping. Thanks. Chris. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 06:14:11 -0800 (PST) From: Ed Jones <cuisinartoh at yahoo.com> Subject: hop back construction and placement My next brewery project is to build a hop back. My system ( http://ironacres.com/brewery.html ) is a standard two-tier converted keg system with a pump. I'd like something sealed, easily opened while in place, and not fragile (i.e. the mason jar hop backs). I'm looking for ideas or plans from the collective if you'd care to share. Also, does it matter if the hop back is placed between the kettle and pump or if it's placed between the pump and my counterflow chiller? I've seen some stainless steel pasta canisters in the home section of several stores that have plastic lids with snap down clamps. You've seen the ones I'm talking about. Will the lids and rubber seal hold up to near-boiling wort? I like this idea because I keep the empty hop back in the system on the input side of the chiller. I like to sanitize my chiller by recirculating boiling wort for 5 minutes. Prior to chilling the wort I could drain the hopback via a small petcock on the bottom, add hops, seal, then chill the wort through the hopback. Thanks for any tips or ideas you can provide! ===== Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian "When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment, I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery." - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:03:52 -0500 From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net> Subject: Fermenter recirculation #2 First off, thanks to those who have provided comments so far, especially to Reif Hammond for the detailed run-through of the heat generation and removal calculations. I read through it quickly, and I'll digest the numbers at my leisure. I don't know the answers to your questions, Reif, as I bought the system ready-built from B3. Perhaps Colin Kaminski, who designed it, will chime-in with some performance figures. And while I failed to say it in my first post, I have never had the cooler fail to maintain the very modest setpoint of 68 degrees before this, and I routinely make high gravity brews. What I found significant was that the constant recirculation increased the vigor of the fermentation so much that the cooler "lost it" . Last night we had a high wind here in Bel Air, and it apparently blew something down across a power line. The juice went off sometime around 10 PM. So we lit the oil lamps, turned off those light switches we could remember were on, and went to bed. Around midnight, the power came back, and the restarting of various items of home machinery woke me up. I went around turning off lights we had missed on the first go-around, and then went to check the fermenter to make sure the pump got going again okay. Should have done that first, as I arrived to find the blowoff receptacle had filled to overflowing, and partially fermented wort was drooling down the front of the fermenter. Just as I had begun mopping, the power went off again, and stayed off for another three hours. The siren at the fire station went off right after that, so I guess the power company missed something that needed fixing when they first turned the power back on. Anyway, this time I unplugged the pump, so I could be present when it was restarted. When the power came back and I restarted the pump, there was an explosion of bubbles from the blowoff tube, and about two quarts of porter burst forth into the receptacle, which I had now changed to one that would hold about a gallon. Apparently, there was a load of carbon dioxide clinging to the little yeasties that was shaken loose when the recirculation resumed. I could have anticipated that if I had bothered to think about it, as I have seen that happen plenty of times on a smaller scale when rousing yeast in a carboy. But I was a dunce, and was rewarded with a nice mess to clean up. So the moral of the story is, I should have unplugged the pump when the power went off the first time, and brought the flow rate up gradually when I restarted it. BTW, with the garage temperature in the mid-to-upper 50s, the cooler has control again. More as the saga unfolds. Dave in Bel Air, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:17:46 -0600 From: "Bill Frazier" <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Refractometer Matt Schultz has questions about refractometers. Matt - Check out www.piwine.com for refractometers. I have one similar to the $98.00 non-ATC model they currently sell. I mainly use it for grape work but have used it to monitor the specific gravity of wort as it drains from the tun to kettle. I'm not sure it's worth the extra $ to buy a ATC model. Presque Isle says there is only a 0.3% difference in Brix measurements over a +/- 10C range. Regardless, since you only need a drop of wort for each measurement it quickly comes to room temperature when it contacts the instrument. The 0-32Brix scale models measure up to 1.140 sp.gr. This should be sufficient for any beer we make. Brix 24 is usually the highest I encounter in my vineyard and my wines contain higher alcohol content that my beers. Refractometers are great little instruments. The main advantages are rapid testing and small sample size. Regards, Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:45:23 +0000 From: "Bill Smith" <billsmith11 at hotmail.com> Subject: Hefe yeast and Bob Sheck Hello- I brewed a hefe the other day with some of my relatives. With a house full of people and Christmas approaching, my mind wasn't focused on brewing. For this beer, I normally mash 112->150 to get those clove precursors. Well, I forgot 112 rest and just did a 150 rest. Now I know this beer won't have the clove phenols I would like. My question is what about the yeast. I was planning on pitching a big dunkle-dopple-weisen-bock beer on it. Will the yeast produce the clove I'm looking for? - ------------------ In the HBD4129, Bob Sheck said, "I'm not going to be like my hero, Trent Lott, and continue to apologize." Gee Bob, wouldn't you have to start to apologize before you can continue to apologize? You admitted that you and your comments are bigoted but you made absolutely no attempt to apologize. I can only assume that since you didn't express any contrition that your remarks to Mr. Keh stand as stated. For me, your future posts will carry no weight or interest and therefore will get the page down key treament. Cheers, Billy Beer Smith Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 08:06:35 -0800 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Re: UMANI (MSG) >...there are more than tastes beyond the four classic four of sweet, sour, >salty and bitter.The flavor he was talking about is UMAMI. >...snip... >The UMAMI taste is a natural taste occurring in lots of food, including >GLUTAMATE. >...snip... >Now, my question is if food contains monosodium glutamate (MSG), couldn't >there be a misperception of the UMAMI flavor? MSG only contains 1/3 the >amount of sodium and is used in many foods to reduce the total amount of >sodium by 20 to 30%, while maintaining an acceptable flavor? >Laine, Phil, Neil and Hong, any thoughts on this??? I am neither Laine nor Phil nor Neil nor Hong, however, I have thoughts. My first thought is that we need a little more explanation of what Fred is talking about. UMANI? Is that an acronym? Is this an inadvertant post, meant for another list? Who are Laine, Phil, Neil, and Hong? I do have strong opinions concerning MonoSodium Glutamate (MSG), so as the topic has been brought up, I'll share. MSG is an interesting food additive. It does absolutely nothing to the food to which it is added. MSG works on your tastebuds, not on the food. Glutamate, an amino acid, is used in your body as a neurotransmitter. It increases the rate of fire of neurons. MSG increases the irratability of the neurons in your tastebuds. This makes the food taste more intense, because your tastebud neurons are being over stimulated. MSG works on your mouth, not on the food you put in your mouth. Monosodium glutamate is a drug. This increased neuronal irratability is the reason that MSG gives some people splitting headaches, commonly called, "Chinese food syndrome." Glutamate is preferentially and quickly picked up in the gut and dumped into the bloodstream. This increased blood glutamate concentration does the same thing to your brain as it does to your tastebuds. The result in some people is headache. I cannot attest to the implication above that the use of MSG allows lower sodium levels in food. In my experience, MSG is used in considerably larger quantities than salt, and when I experience a "Chinese food" headache it is always accompanied by great thirst. I have always attributed this to the huge amount of sodium that a huge amount of MSG adds to the food. MSG is classified as a "flavor enhancer" by Federal regulation. When it is added to a product the label must include "monosodium glutamate" on the label. Glutamate is a naturally occurring amino acid, present in relatively high levels in animal protein. Bound in protein, glutamate is not a problem. Protein takes considerable time to be digested and the rate of release of glutamate from digesting animal protein is slow. HOWEVER, by "pre-digesting" animal protein the food industry can add MSG to a product without explicit label indications. Hydrolyzed animal proteins, used by the food industry to enhance flavor, are simply animal proteins that have been chemically broken apart into free amino acids. The chemical breakdown of animal proteins result in the formation of free glutamate that joins with free sodium to form MSG. In this case, the presence of MSG does not need to be disclosed on labeling, though "hydrolyzed animal protein" is required to appear on the label. Explicit labeling is required only when MSG is added as a direct ingredient. In my opinion, MSG, in all its forms, should be banned as a food additive. Cheers for the holidaze! Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax Seattle, WA demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:17:36 -0500 From: Bill Wible <bwible at pond.com> Subject: re: It's Christmas, drop the attitude >It's exactly this type of racial profiling that's >responsible for the World Trade Center not standing >tall today. Sorry for the non-beer related post, but I had to respond to this. This is an issue I've been worked up over and writing politicians about for a long time now. I don't know what motivated Bob's original comment. I wrote to him and asked, but didn't get a reply. However, I couldn't disagree more with the comment above. In fact, I think the exact opposite is true. The World Trade Center fell because of a LACK of profiling or caring about who we let into this country. The people who committed that act were admitted into this country on legal VISAS. The FBI knew they were here, knew who they were, and was even warned in so many words of their exact plan MONTHS before the attack. Yet they never went after those people and got rid of them. They let them do the deed, instead. We're so concerned about providing 'rights' to terrorists that we're just allowing them to kill us. In fact, we're helping them. If anything, the war on terrorism is going to continue. And the minute you let your guard down, these religious idiots will get you. Maybe if we took more of an interest in our security and paid attention to who we let in, or better yet, reduced the number to zero and not let any more of these people in, then we'd be safer. It's only a matter of time until one of these anti-American groups gets their hands on a nuclear, chemical or biological weapon. And they will not hesitate to use it here. So why don't we just give them a free passport and put them up in a high priced hotel suite in New York, so they can do it? That's the attitude I get here. And by the way, when these people come over here, they're taking jobs at American expense. Visa holders, particularly from H1B and its sister programs, now account for just over 30%, or almost 1/3rd, of the high tech work force in America. I know because I'm a victim of that myself. I'm one of 3 million unemployed American computer programmers who can't a job now, while our gov't brings in over 200,000 of these people annually, and sets them up with jobs and a new life here. It's outrageous. In addition to hurting our own economy, which is already in the toilet, this is a big security risk if I ever saw one. And the companies who aren't hiring H1B's here are opening branch offices overseas in countries like India, where programmers work 50 hour weeks to make $400/month. So go ahead and keep supporting these people. Pretty soon you'll have to use your unemployment check to do it. If you live through the blast. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:42:34 -0500 From: "Ralph W. Davis" <rdavis77 at erols.com> Subject: Why such long boils? I have a technical question for the more accomplished brewers: Why do most recipes call for at least a 45 to 60 (or even 90) minute boil? I understand that bittering hops require a while for the proper oils to be fully disolved.... (hence some IPAs advertise a "90 minute boil") however, why not just boil the bittering hops for the required long time (and you could use less in the brew-water too) and add the mash liquor just for the last 20 minutes or less? Sterilization will take place in boiling about 10 minutes. I know in the making of mead, some recipes are almost no boil (or very short boil)--in order to preserve some of the delicate aromas of the honey, can't the same to be said for some interesting malts? Isn't there something to be gained from not overboiling wort? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 22:34:46 +0100 From: Thomas Rohner <"t.rohner_do_not _spam" at bluewin.ch> Subject: Yeast for Homebrewers Hi Kelvin, hi everyone after the dust has settled, i hope Kelvin is still reading. Like Mr. Beerguy wrote, i'd like to see some decent dry yeast in my walk-in cooler. I'm from over the pond, and i like to have some dried yeast's as a backup. Maybe my Wyeast doesn't swell, or smells weird, or my starterbottle breaks. Then i'd like to have some dried yeast around. At the Interbrew in Munich i got a lb sample of Safale yeast. It was K97 and it is a nice yeast to brew with. We brew 12 gal all grain, and most of the time, we get the yeasties from one of our local breweries.(lager yeasts) DCL will bring a Weizen-wheat-yeast soon, but i guess there is a lot of room, to bring different dried stuff. The liquid arena is pretty stuffed already, except pitchable doses for us "large scale" allgrainers. (I don't get Wyeast XL-packs over here, lest i order them from Wyeast.) I was pretty impressed about the reactions on Bob's posting. This kind of flaming really doesn't belong here. It would be about the same as to put every white male US-citizen close to the KKK. Keep up the good spirit. Thomas Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:27:05 -0500 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Wyeast Analysis Program Hey y'all, Wyeast has an incredible offer going right now (until Feb, 2003) where they will analyze your homebrew - at no cost to you other than shipping it to them. One little detail - your beer must have been brewed with there yeast. Pretty interesting, has anyone done this? http://www.wyeastlab.com/hbrew/QC%20questionnaire.htm Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 18:51:20 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Brewing Techniques Back Issues Mr. Stephen Mallery just sent me my three back issues of Brewing Techniques, just in time for Christmas. Better late than never. Thanks Mr. Mallery. Happy Holidays to ya. Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
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