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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  occupational and connubial dermatitis to hops (ensmingr)
  re: Why such long boils? ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Mashout (CMEBREW)
  Re: Refractometer (Ed Westemeier)
  hop back (Alan McKay)
  Franklin (Bill Wible)
  Yeast suppliers , Lambic and question about favorite advanced brewing book (Gary M Chumney)
  Hop Backs, placement and hmmm ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
  MSG; percentage alcohol labeling (Rama Roberts)
  What happened with this brew?  No trub?  Late trub! ("john fraser")
  New homebrew club in Springfield, MO (Paul Kalapathy)
  RE. Refractometer (Thomas Rohner)
  Hop Backs (athome)
  They're abusing (Ronald La Borde)
  Teeshirt contest is B-a-a-ck! (Pat Babcock)


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Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 00:23:46 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: occupational and connubial dermatitis to hops

The HBD has been slow lately, so I thought that some of you may
be interested in this recent publication on hops from Ann Agric
Environ Med.

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
http://hbd.org/ensmingr

- -----
Ann Agric Environ Med 2002;9(2):249-52
Occupational airborne and hand dermatitis to hop (Humulus
lupulus) with non-occupational relapses.
Spiewak R, Dutkiewicz J.
Instytut Medycyny Wsi, ul. Jaczewskiego 2, 20-090 Lublin, Poland.
spiewak at galen.imw.lublin.pl

We report a case of a 57-years-old female farmer with
occupational airborne dermatitis and hand dermatitis to hop
(Humulus lupulus). The disease appeared at the age of 46, after
30 years of working with hop without any health problems. The
patient had skin erythema of the face, neck and d collet , oedema
of the eyelids, conjunctivitis, as well as acute dermatitis of
the hands. The symptoms were provoked both by fresh and dried
hop, appeared after half-an-hour of working and persisted over
1-2 days. There were no other skin or allergic problems. Skin
tests were carried out with hop leaves (saline extract: prick
positive, patch negative; glycerol extract: prick positive, patch
negative) and hop cones (saline extract: prick positive, patch
negative; glycerol extract: prick negative, patch positive after
48 and 72 hours). Despite discontinuing work, the patient
experienced several relapses of her dermatitis. We identified new
sources of hop allergens: a beauty cream and a herbal sedative,
both containing hop extract. During the next hop cultivation
period it also turned out that sleeping in one bed with her
husband was provoking relapses of the patient's dermatitis. The
husband admitted that sometimes he felt too tired to wash
thoroughly after working on the plantation. Our case shows that
connubial contacts with husband working in the same workplace may
cause relapses of occupational dermatitis. To our knowledge, this
is the first report on the concurrent occupational and connubial
dermatitis to hop.
- -----





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Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 07:05:00 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Why such long boils?

Ralph writes:
"I have a technical question for the more accomplished brewers:  Why do most
recipes call for at least a 45 to 60 (or even 90) minute boil?

I understand that bittering hops require a while for the proper oils to be
fully disolved....  (hence some IPAs advertise a "90 minute boil") however,
why not just boil the bittering hops for the required long time (and you
could use less in the brew-water too)  and add the mash liquor just for the
last 20 minutes or less? Sterilization will take place in boiling about 10
minutes.  I know in the making of mead, some recipes are almost no boil (or
very short boil)--in order to preserve some of the delicate aromas of the
honey, can't the same to be said for some interesting malts?

Isn't there something to be gained from not overboiling wort?"

Interesting question. Conventional wisdom says no. There are a number of
things to be gained by boiling wort. Below is a list of reasons for boiling
wort from the BJCP Exam Study Guide. There is additional info in the guide at
http://www.bjcp.org/study.html

1) Extracts, isomerizes and dissolves the hop alpha-acids
 2) Stops enzymatic activity
 3) Kills bacteria, fungi, and wild yeast
 4) Coagulates undesired proteins and polyphenols in the hot break
 5) Stabilizes salts for correct boil pH
 6) Evaporates undesirable harsh hop oils, sulfur compounds, ketones,
 and esters.
 7) Promotes the formation of melanoidins and caramelizes some of the
 wort sugars
 8) Evaporates water vapor, condensing the wort to the proper volume
 and gravity.

I'm not a scientist, in fact I'm science-challanged, but as I understand it,
you won't get proper hop utilization by boiling the hops in water alone. Part
of the process involves the hop acids binding to the wort in the boil process
so that they remain in solution rather than dropping out. And, as you see from
the above list, there are other reasons for boiling the wort.

However, there are can be reasons for not boiling everything, or at least for
not boiling certain additives longer than necessary for sanitation. Just as we
make hop aroma additions at the end of the boil or at knockout, it can
beneficial to add other ingredients at the end of the boil - some adjuncts,
spices, fruits etc. We might do this to avoid driving off the volatile aroma,
but it can also help  to avoid extracting undesirable flavors from some
spices. If you look at the addtl info on boiling in the BJCP Study Guide,
you'll see that Berliner Weisse is mentioned as an exception to the rule of
boiling beer. This style is extremely light in color; longer boiling darkens
wort (see #7 above). But keep in mind that this style gets it's characteristic
sourness from lactobacillus, unlike most styles of beer where this would be a
fault (see #3).

 Still, it's interesting to look at our accepted practices and ask why we
follow them. We might find other reasons or benefits from breaking the
accepted rules, or trying non-standard brewing practices. That said, though, I
think I'll keep boiling my wort and save the no-boil method for mead.

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL




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Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 07:41:57 EST
From: CMEBREW at aol.com
Subject: Mashout

Is m/o really necessary? What negative effect if any in flavors will develope 
as a result of not doing it? Since I mash about 20 lbs of grist in a 10 gal 
Igloo cooler, I find it difficult to do. I have previously done 5 gal 
batches, about 10 lbs of grist in the cooler with about 12 qts of strike 
water at 166-8 degrees F. After 65" the temp is 152-4, and I can fill the 
cooler up with the batch sparge water at 180 or so and the temp is then at 
168 for a 10" mashout.---I suppose I could get another 10 gal Igloo and do a 
split mash, then join the two run offs for the boil, but how many of you on 
the HB level, skip this m/o procedure?  Charlie in Mansfield, Ohio


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Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 08:33:23 -0500
From: Ed Westemeier <hopfen at malz.com>
Subject: Re: Refractometer

Fred Bonjour wrote:
>
> Northern Brewer (no affiliation) has a refractometer 0-32Brix with ATC
> on sale for $59.
> I'm thinking of ordering it, but think of the adage "if it's too good 
> to
> be true. . . "
> Any thoughts on this.
> http://www.northernbrewer.com/

I bought one of these earlier this year, and have used it during half a 
dozen brews. My highest recommendation!

First, you can easily check your wort at any stage between mashing and 
pitching. It only takes a minute (total time, including scooping out a 
few drops, letting their temperature stabilize, placing them on the 
instrument, and reading it).

Second, I wasn't sure about the accuracy, so the first couple of times 
I used it, I also collected a hydrometer jar full of wort for a later 
check. I found the readings (in degrees Brix) of the refractometer to 
exactly correlate to the hydrometer readings in degrees Plato.

I think this would be a useful addition to any homebrewer's equipment 
cabinet.

Ed Westemeier
Cincinnati, Ohio



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Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 10:27:12 -0500
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: hop back


You can make a hop back quite easily with a mason jar.

http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index.php?page=20020429191318951

Though my design has changed and I now use a sheet of copper for the
lid, and I soldered two lengths of 3/8 copper tubing into holes in
the lid for inlet and outlet.  The inlet goes right to the bottom of
the jar, and the outlet is only long enough to hold a scrubbie.

cheers,
 -Alan

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site 


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Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 10:36:54 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Franklin


Hey Larry,

I doubt Benjamin Franklin ever met a Muslim in his life,
let alone dealt with an organized and well funded group of
them throughout the rest of the world bent on destroying him,
his country, and his way of life with terrorist acts involving
nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons.  In his time, a
cartridge rifle hadn't even been invented yet, so he had no
grasp of this technology whatsoever.

If he were alive today, I'm sure he'd ADAPT his way of thinking,
as we all should.  So don't hit me with 200 year old quotes
regarding current situations that the quoted person could
not possibly have know about or understood.  It's going on 2003,
not 1786.  Clinging to these outdated philosophies is what's
going to get us all killed.

Bill

 



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Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 10:45:27 -0500
From: Gary M Chumney <garychumney at juno.com>
Subject: Yeast suppliers , Lambic and question about favorite advanced brewing book

        The brewing community lost a great resource of yeast when YCKC
was shut down recently.  The debate on which supplier will reign supreme
has been going on for a bit on this digest and others.  My thoughts on
this subject is that we need to support all of the suppliers that we can
as each have similar but different yeast strains.  The more choices we
have the better the end product usually ends up being produced to gain an
edge. 
        
        This is more to the world of p-lambic brewers than to the rest of
the other brewing styles.  I have made more than my share of p-lambic and
fruit p-lambic beers that are very true to the style and have had one
p-kriek that took all of 15 years to become drinkable.  The last few that
I made are really quite good.  the process is not as complicated as it
first seems.   I start out at least a week in advance of the main brew by
making a sour mash.   The sour mash is a single infusion mash of 1 1/2
pounds of grain in 3 quarts of water and holding the rest for 90 minutes.
 I then add enough cold water to bring the mixture to 110 and add a
handful of crushed malt to the mash to start lactic acid fermentation.  I
hold this at approximately 105 degrees for the week to get a good lactic
acid base to add to the main mash at the end of the mash an jut before
the sparge.   This will give me the lactic bite before the start of
fermentation.  

        When i start fermentation I have three yeast strains available to
add the complexity of the brew.   I pitch a neutral stain of ale yeast on
day one about one quart starter.  On day three I pitch a wit yeast and on
day four a German weisen yeast.   I let these work for two weeks at about
65 degrees to get most of the fermentables converted.  I then transfer to
a secondary with the Wyeast lambic blend and with any fruits if I am
making a fruit p-lambic.   This secondary is usually a plastic fermenter
that you usually get from the water company.  I usually let this ferment
for at least five months before transferring to a carboy to clarify
before bottling.  If someone wanted a touch of the oak flavoring in the
p-lambic, it is easy to o with some sanitized french oak chips.  This is
done by boiling them in water with a little baking soda for 20 minutes,
and then rinsing for a bout 5 minutes and then re boiling for 15 minutes
to remove the taste of the baking soda,  to check of the removal of the
taste of the baking soda cool some of the water from the last boiling and
taste a sip of the water.  It should have a tannic bite not a salty
carbonate taste.  Then add these to the clarify p-lambic a week before
bottling.  As far as using the individual lambic cultures I would add the
lactobacillus with the second addition of the Bretts.  However, I find
the use of a single p-lambic mixed culture does just fine without too
many problems in a 5 gallon batch. 

        I have gotten a little more critical of my beer as to the finish.
 I have notice that most of my beers lately have as can be best describe
as a sharp finish it is not a well rounded finish of malt and hop
balance.  I can say it is not a bitterness normally associated with hops
or with darker malts.  It is not a bad finish to some lighter beer styles
but it is quite distracting on some of the darker styles.  These beers
are all kegged and pressurized with CO2.

        I am contemplating on an addition to my brewing library and I am
looking for advice on which of these two texts are more value to the
brewer.  A Textbook of Brewing by Jean DeClerck ,Technology of Brewing
and Malting , or Standards of Brewing.  Steve Alexander seems to be the
most informed of each of the texts and his opinion is one that maybe the
most informed.  

Brewing in Knoxville, Tennessee

Gary Chumney



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Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 09:46:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: Hop Backs, placement and hmmm

hmmm, 

Don from Stout Billys and myself have been messing around with hopback designs
for the last year or so now. 

The original design can be viewed here: 

http://www.skotrat.com/Skot/equipment/HopBack

We had some flow rate issues with this particular design even when using a pump
so we brain stormed for a bit and came up with a new design that incorporates a
Zymico (tm) Bazooka screen down the center. 

You can view the new design here: 

http://www.skotrat.com/Skot/equipment/HopBackII

The new unit also has 1/2" inlet and outlet nipple fittings that should be much
easier to put inline than the older unit. 

I have tried putting the hopback before and after the the chiller and I am
still unsure as to which I personally prefer. 

Thoughts and comments on the design are always appreciated. 

Note: To those certain companies out there marketing HB equipment (Say maybe in
Texas or possibly Indiana) that seem to like to blatantly copy products from
other companies and market them as their own;  These designs are trademarked
and patent applied for. The Zymico name and the Bazooka screen are both
trademarked by ZYMICO and have been used by permission. 

C'ya!

 -Scott




=====
"The broken seats in empty rows, It all belongs to me you know"
 - P. Townshend

http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat - Skotrats Beer Page
http://www.brewrats.org - BrewRats HomeBrew Club



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Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 09:58:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at eng.sun.com>
Subject: MSG; percentage alcohol labeling

For those interested in food trivia, like what exactly MSG is and does,
why its safe to eat hominy even though its processed with lye, etc I
highly recommend Robert Wolke's "What Einstein Told His Cook". Its a
collection of questions and answers from his Food 101 column in the
newspaper. Many people into homebrewing are probably also into food
science and chemistry- that's what WETHC is all about.

Here's a bit relevant to this alias I found interesting- its part of his
answer on why some bottles of beer are labeled with percentage alcohol and
some aren't:

"By my count, about twenty-seven states still prohibit the labeling of
alcohol content, four states required the labeling of beers containing
less that 3.2 percent alcohol, and the rest either don't seem to care or
have laws that are so complex as to raise questions about the alcoholic
content of the legislators. (Minnesota laws win the prize for
complexity.) Alaska, as far as I can tell, both prohibits and requires
strength labeling."

- --rama
SF bay area





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Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 20:46:44 +0000
From: "john fraser" <fraser_john at hotmail.com>
Subject: What happened with this brew?  No trub?  Late trub!

Ok, just completed brewing my first Belgian Double and something odd 
happened.  I had completed the boil, 90 minutes and ran it through the 
counterflow chiller, it came out at around 60 degrees F, pretty normal.  But 
this time, there was no cold break!  The wort was cloudy, but the trub was 
not settling out at all.

I aerated for 15 minutes, then sat it aside for 30 minutes, hoping the trub 
would form and I could stop worrying.  I dont usually pitch my yeast until I 
have had the trub settle out pretty well and siphoned the clear wort off the 
trub.  After 30 minutes, no trub, just cloudy wort.

I gave up and pitched the yeast, about 1/4 gallon of starter.  Within a 
minute, the trub protein strings had started to form!  The starter was about 
10 degrees WARMER than the wort!

Anyone out there have an explanation for this one?  I really like to get my 
wort off the trub, so I will have to see if I can get it off before the 
Abbey yeasties get going!

John M. Fraser
http://rims-brewing.tripod.com/







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Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 22:09:59 -0600
From: Paul Kalapathy <paulk at pixim.com>
Subject: New homebrew club in Springfield, MO

A new homebrew club is starting up in Springfield, MO.  We've only
been meeting for a couple of months, and haven't named the club yet.
If you are in the area and interested, you can join the club's
mailing list by mailing SGF-homebrew-subscribe at #yahoo#groups#.com.
(Remove the "#"s from the address.  The HBD filter doesn't like
that particular path for some very understandable reasons, but we
can't help having it).

The club may be new, but we have some members who have been brewing
since the 1970's and others who are just starting.
Meetings have generally been at The Home Brewery (www.homebrewery.com)
in Ozark (plug, but I'm just a happy customer).  The next meeting 
will probably be in the second week of January.  The mailing list 
is the best way to stay informed.  Email me if you are interested and
have a problem with the group's email address.
        -Paul Kalapathy


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Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:07:45 +0100
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: RE. Refractometer

Hi all
i bought a non-ATC model 4 years ago at Frugal HB-shop in Milwaukee for
around 100$. It works very well. I dropped it once and the glass broke.
I ordered another one, also non-ATC. These instruments are made in
China and i imagine, that they are pretty cheap in wholesale qantities.
I've checked the precision against my beer-spindle and it was ok.
What i realized is that in the wintertime, when the temp. in my
brewery is rather low, the readings are too high. So before i take
a measurment, i put it into my pant-pocket to bring it to 20 Deg.
Celsius. The next one i buy will definitely be a ATC-model.
Moorebeer also sells on at about the same price as northern-brewer.
cheers  Thomas


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Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 20:12:46 +0000
From: athome <aleman at schwarzbadbrewery.org.uk>
Subject: Hop Backs

Hi All,

Regarding a hop back design. I use one of those clamp down pasta 
containers and have the devils time getting it to seal. The back 
pressure from the CFC causes leaks. I am looking for a way of getting a 
better seal. The seal material is good enough, but just not thick or 
wide enough. The pressure provided by the clamp is almost enough but 
does need to be assisted.

I'm thinking of converting a small corny to use as a hop back :>

And as for the comments regarding yeast cultures from Malaysia, and 
flack well I couldn't let it lie.

 > We're so concerned about providing
 > 'rights' to terrorists that we're just allowing
 > them to kill us.  In fact, we're helping them.

 > If anything, the war on terrorism is going to
 > continue.  And the minute you let your guard down, these religious
 > idiots will get you.

 > Maybe if we took more of an interest in our security and paid
 > attention to who we let in, or better yet, reduced the number to zero
 > and not let any more of these people in, then we'd be safer.

Hmmm, True keep out all the undesirables. Case in point, friend of mine, 
guitar salesman by trade, flew to the US last year to attend a business 
convention. Was turned away at immigration! Why, well he has lots of 
Visa stamps from Morocco, dangerous place that. Of course he only goes 
there to visit his English girl friend who is in the travel business.

Nice application of selection criteria!

As for the original comments. I sent a couple of yeast slants to Canada 
in the November following 9/11. They were clearly labelled BY THE 
LABORATORY, and declared properly by me to customs. They never arrived!!

Peace on earth and goodwill to ALL!! Not just a platitude for this time 
of year, but more a way of life

- -- 
Wassail !
The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 159575867)
Schwarzbad Brewery, Blackpool, Lancashire, UK


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Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 14:44:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Ronald La Borde <pivoron at yahoo.com>
Subject: They're abusing

They're abusing their with there.
It's driving me nuts! So there!

Ron

=====
Ron
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 21:43:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Teeshirt contest is B-a-a-ck!

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Well! Long ago, a certain Jeremy Bergsman had suggested that we
use CafePress as the vendor for the HBD Tee Shirt. In my great
wisdom, I decided it would be better to pursue a "private" tee
shirt printer associated with the HBD in some tenuous way -
figgered it'd be better that one of our own found benefit.

Anyway, after many false starts, and one that seemed promising -
only to fizzle out in a most disappointing way, I gave up
trying. Anyhoo, I recently came across Jeremy's note again and
figgered, what the heck. The result is that there are now
HBD-logoed items available from
http://www.cafeshops.com/hbdstore. Among these are items bearing
the "Beer On Your Mind" tee-shirt theme from the previously
defunct Tee Shirt Contest. (Jeremy, you were right. I should
have gone this route from the very beginning!)

Thus, I am announcing the revitalization of the HBD Tee Shirt
Contest!!! Woo-hoo! All of you great tee-shirt creators, sharpen
your digital pencils, and create away! Here's the drill:

   You create a tee shirt full back image, in vibrant colors,
   and send it to teeshirt at hbd.org. It gets posted on the tee shirt
   section of the HBD site for voting. Voting will take place
   some time in August, with the winners design being made available on
   our CafePress shop as the "Beer On Your Mind" image is now.
   (The pocket design, where applicable, will be the HBD logo
   with the year.)

Your actual image should be 10 inches by 8 inches or 8 inches by
10 inches (larger is OK as long as the aspect ratio is the same
as either of these. Smaller than the two sizes is not acceptable
as the resulting aliasing of your image will, frankly, make the
final product look awful). PNG format is recommended, but I can
translate just about anything. DO NOT use lossy compressions or
your design will look pretty pitiful against the others. 

As opposed to last time we tried this concept, we will not
accept concept descriptions or rough sketches - your submission
must be EXACTLY as you wish it to appear on the products if
yours were to be chosen. Submit your design in full size to
teeshirt at hbd.org.

More later, if I can get the mind working!

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie





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---