HOMEBREW Digest #4147 Fri 17 January 2003

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  Re: Gott buckling ("Rogers, Mike")
  Beer: 2000 year-old antibiotic? (David Radwin)
  Re: My first mead / melomel ("Asher Reed")
  Basement propane burners (FRASERJ)
  re: Competition Announcements ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Beer of Gold ("Jonathan Royce")
  Writing on the BJCP exam... (Bev Blackwood II)
  ale vs lager vs. wine yeast ("Steve B")
  Muriatic Acid (Richard Foote)
  DLC Yeast ("Dan Listermann")
  BJCP Judge Test (hand-written vs. computer vs. the clock) ("John B. Doherty")
  Re: Basement Brewing with propane burner (Ed Jones)
  Re: Basement Brewing with propane burner (Jeff Renner)
  Re: 10 gallon system recommendations (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Basement Brewing with propane burner (Michael Hetzel)
  Competition Announcement: 2003 Bluebonnet Brew-off (Mark Wedge)
  RE: wine yeast and kit taste (Brian Lundeen)
  RE: My first mead / melomel (Michael Hetzel)
  Re: Brewhouse efficiency ("DRTEELE")
  Berliner weiss and "other" stuff (Marc Sedam)
  Re: ferulic rest (George de Piro)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 00:07:48 -0500 From: "Rogers, Mike" <mike.rogers at eds.com> Subject: Re: Gott buckling FYI... My Gott has never shown any sign of distortion at mashing or sparge temps... The Gott looks the same as the day I bought it... At least fifteen 10 gal batches later... Mike Rogers Cass River Homebrewers Mid-Michigan www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers/ <www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers/> mailto:mike01.rogers at yahoo.com <mailto:mike01.rogers at yahoo.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:23:44 -0800 From: David Radwin <dradwin at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Beer: 2000 year-old antibiotic? I heard this on "Pulse of the Planet," a featurette on public radio. From http://www.pulseplanet.com/archive/Jan03/2838.html: - --------------------------------- Antibiotic medicines are fairly easy to come by these days, and one of the most common -- tetracycline -- can be used to treat anything from urinary tract infections to acne flareups. But would you believe that this bacteria-fighting drug might have been used more than 2,000 years ago? I'm Jim Metzner, and this is the Pulse of the Planet. George Armelagos is a professor of Anthropology at Emory University. He and his colleagues discovered traces of tetracycline in some well preserved bones found in Sudan, in Africa. "When we started looking at the bone, we found that first of all ninety percent of the individuals had the tetracycline. So that means that it couldn't have been sort of a chance occurrence. This was something that they were probably ingesting throughout their lifetime consistently. So then what we did is we started thinking about what are the possibilities of how this could get into the system. Tetracycline is produced by streptomycedes, which is a mold-like bacteria. And it produces tetracycline as essentially a defense against other bacterias. So then, when we knew that somehow the streptomycedes would have to have contaminated the food." Armelegos and his colleagues started out by investigating the consumption of grain within the ancient population. And then they realized that an interesting possibility was staring them right in the face... "We looked at ways in which grain were used, and one of the things that we noticed is that grain was used to make beer. And then all of the sudden, it was just like an epiphany. We realized that this process of making beer might be the source of it." Well, beer drinkers take note. By researching ancient recipes, scientists were able to make a beer that contained tetracycline. - ---------------------------------- - -- David Radwin news at removethispart.davidradwin.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:39:33 +0000 From: "Asher Reed" <clvwpn5 at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: My first mead / melomel You didn't mention your batch size -- using 17.5 lbs of honey in a 5 gallon batch size would give you an OG of about 1.140 (final gravity of about 1.030, 14% alcohol)-- a 10 gallon batch would give you an OG of about 1.060 (this will finish dry, probably below 1.000). This doesn't take into consideration the 6 lbs of cherries, sugar content can vary on them -- but would probably bump the OG up by another 0.010+ (just guessing on this though). 10g of champagne yeast, a good amount for 5 gallons with high gravity, yeast nutrient is always a good idea with mead also. 68 degrees is a good temp for fermentation. I like to ferment mead between 65 and 72 degrees. How did you prepare the must? boil, pasteurize, sulfite, "dump and stir"? I would recommend either boiling for 10 minutes with 1 tsp of irish moss, or pasteurizing for 30 minutes with the irish moss (don't boil the fruit of course though.) Boiling or pasteurizing with irish moss eliminates the need for fining -- when fermentation is done, the mead will be crystal clear. Everyone has their own philosophy of whether is it best to boil, pasteurize, sulfite, or to just "dump and stir" -- you have to find what works best for you on that issue, it seems to be quite a contentious subject among mead makers. I've been considering flavor/aroma hopping a mead for a while now, it sounds good, but I don't have any recommendation on how much to use -- I love hop flavor and aroma so I would probably be as generous as if it were an IPA. Good luck on it, let us know how it turn out. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:03:33 -0500 From: FRASERJ at Nationwide.com Subject: Basement propane burners Paul, I use a propane burner for boiling my wort, I used to use a twin fan window fan and I found that it did not seem to give me enough extraction. I too just have two small basement windows. I just changed the design and now have a box fan, mounted diagonally from the bottom of the window to the floor joists. I made a "hood" out of 3/4' foam insulation board. Now, with the box fan running on the mid speed, it provides perfect ventilation. In fact, my girlfriend tells me that we cannot have a fire in the fireplace burning when I brew because it pulls so much air down the chimney!!! To defeat this I have the other basement window open, which, when it is 20 degrees here in Columbus, OH, makes for a chilly boil session! I will try and get a new page on my website that shows the fan mounted with the styrofoam "hood". John M. Fraser http://rims-brewing.tripod.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:10:35 -0500 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: re: Competition Announcements Donald Hellen asks: > I would like to see homebrew competition announcements made here to be > made at > least 2 months before the competition. That's cutting it close if > someone were to make a barleywine or imperial stout, but it would give > someone who is making a lighter ale or lager enough time to brew > especially for that competition. Brewing for an upcoming competition can take a little advanced planning, even two months is too short for many styles. Following are a couple of event colanders that may make it easier: from the BJCP site - http://www.bjcp.org/compsch.html from AHA Beertown - http://www.beertown.org/calendars.htm There are others out there as well (check out some of the brew rag sites), but these two should have most of the competitions. And while you're looking at theses competition calendars, you might think about going to some of the events in your region and volunteering as a steward (and later as a judge). Many of these competitions are growing each year and need help. Stewarding is a great way to get started in becoming a BJCP judge. Even if you don't want to go that far, it's a great way to improve your critical tasting skills - as a steward you can taste the beers and listen to the judge's comments without having to fill out a score sheet. It can also be a lot of fun, and add another really enjoyable aspect to the hobby. Competitions are another part of the brewing community. Many comps include seminars, parties, etc and you'll get to meet other brewers & judges (including folks on the HBD). I'm off to Tallahassee this weekend to judge & party at the Big Bend Brew Off. This is the opening of the competition season here in Florida. Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 04:40:31 -0800 From: "Jonathan Royce"<jtroyce at earthlink.net> Subject: Beer of Gold Sven Pfitt wrote: "As far as the price goes, I make mostly beer that costs me in the range of $3-$5 per bottle. That works out to $144 to $240 a 5 gallon batch equivalent." To which I say: WOW! That is some expensive homebrew. It must be the nectar of the Gods! My most expensive batch to date cost about $42 in ingredients, and that was a winter warmer with some fresh spices (cinnamon sticks, vanilla beans) and a good quantity of clover honey. I think I got 44 bottles out of that batch, making the cost per bottle just under $1. If I then add the cost of cleaning water, detergent, sanitizer, electricity and natural gas consumption, I might have spent an extra $10 on the batch, but that's a very liberal estimate. Even so, a $52 batch works out to about $1.18 per bottle or $7/six pack, which is only $1 more than most good beers at my local grocery. By comparison, my cheapest batch ever has been an Irish red for which I reused a yeast cake from an English pale ale. I think the cost of that batch was something closer to $22. I brew via partial-mash, so I would expect all-grainers have even better economies (although more of a time investment). -Jon Woodbury Brewing Co. Merrimack, NH [626.8, 82.2] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:48:26 -0600 From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com> Subject: Writing on the BJCP exam... Alan Monaghan observes; > While I understand the problems and the needs of the many on this, I > must > say that having to hand write that many pages is a pain the butt. I agree Alan, but honestly, writing by hand is something that virtually everyone has done their whole life. I think it's ridiculous to claim impairment because you spend so much time on the computer. (So do I, by the way) My writing may not be pretty (I block letter, my cursive always sucked) but it gets the job done. Do I type faster? It's debatable. You need to accept that there will be others who feel that you have an unfair advantage because you have a laptop and they don't. Not everyone can afford them or has a need for one. They may be hell on wheels on a keyboard but couldn't / wouldn't / can't drag a desktop to the test. It also places extreme burdens on the proctors to verify there isn't cheating going on. God help the poor proctor who has to learn to traverse a UNIX file structure to see if there are hidden files, or rummage through the Windows temp files. Not only that, the proctor has to neglect the other folks taking the exam to look over someone's shoulder regularly. I have heard they are considering shortening the essay portion of the exam and adding some multiple choice questions, so maybe there's hope for you yet. -BDB2 Bev D. Blackwood II http://www.bdb2.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:57:47 -0500 From: "Steve B" <habenero92 at hotmail.com> Subject: ale vs lager vs. wine yeast I was recently having a conversation with a co-worker about the health benefits of drinking fermentables with the yeast still in the container. Her doctor had recommended this course of action during a bout with anemia. The doctor specifically suggested stout or ale. I was figuring because it was more likely these items would be bottle conditioned. Well I got to thinking, is there a nutritional difference among the different yeasts? I realize they are basically the same yet each strain is different. Would the top vs bottom fermentation affect the nutritional value? Any ideas? S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:35:14 -0500 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: Muriatic Acid Brewers, I guess this is one more for the chemists and metalurgists out there... I am wondering about the suitability of muriactic acid as a cleaner for home brewery use. I have an opportunity to get some that a friend no longer wants/needs. Is it okay to use on stainless, copper, brass? Should it be reduced in strength? What strength? Any use/safety cautions? I've found some info. via internet search but not enough (yet) for me to make a decision. I've used this stuff before for etching concrete prior to painting and know that it's used for pH adjustment in swimming pools. Any info. would be appreciated. TIA, Rick Foote Whistle Pig Brewing Murrayville, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:49:49 -0500 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: DLC Yeast WOW! It looks like I will just have to get used to the freshly reamed one. Here is an idea. DLC and C & B don't want Paddock Wood selling repackaged bricks of yeast. Selling bulk malt and hops does not seem to be a problem, why not bulk yeast. Price the yeast by gram and have the customers order it that way. I would fire this across DLC and C&B's bow to avert a cut off in case they felt really strongly about things. Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:03:01 -0800 (PST) From: "John B. Doherty" <dohertybrewing at yahoo.com> Subject: BJCP Judge Test (hand-written vs. computer vs. the clock) In regards to Alan's comments below about the BJCP judge test... In the future, wouldn't it be wonderful if there were a way to make the BJCP test itself computerized? Aren't the GRE, SAT and other standardized tests moving to computerized examinations? There are more than a few tech saavy BJCP members out there... who will be the first to administer a computer based test? :) I agree that continuously writing for 3 hours is quite a difficult proposition, and my hand hurt for the rest of the weekend when I took the test on a Saturday. I think that in the short term, a little more time for taking the test should be considered. My first thought is to truly separate the tasting portion from the written portion, giving 3 full hours to the written portion. I recall taking the test, sipping a somewhat infected "Scottish" Ale, trying to mentally make some impressions about it, while simultaneously my hand was writing out a 5 gallon recipe for a bavarian hefe-weizen! With this test, as with most, either you know the answer or you don't. Giving some extra time (I'd actually like to see more time than 3 hours) will only help people - BS is BS, and a grader isn't going to give you bonus points because you wrote 3 pages of it per question - you'll probably lose points for aggravating them! But someone who truly has real information to put down on paper could benefit from a little extra time. If you spend no more than 18 minutes per question and judge 4 beers as you write, you're in good shape. But spend 20 minutes per question and you might only answer 9 out of 10 questions - automatic 93 at best. I'll be looking to re-take the test in a few years - maybe we can get the time restraints modified by then. :) Cheers, John Doherty BJCP National Lakeville, MA > Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:05:00 -0500 > From: Alan Monaghan <AlanM at Gardnerweb.com> > Subject: Re: BJCP Levels > > This is in reference to the test itself. > While I understand the problems and the needs of the many on this, I must > say that having to hand write that many pages is a pain the butt. I work > with computers 12 hours a day and I have not written more than a thank you > note in more that 20 years. I feel that you should be allowed a portable > computer w/ word on it and a printer of your providing to take the test. > Now, I know that there are cheaters everywhere, but I would think that > something like this, what is the point. I have worked hard, studied hard and > I just can't write like that. My last test was awful. I couldn't even read > the last part. I really appreciate the judge that took the time to try and > help me by grading my test. > I would like to see something that would help in this regard. > > Thanks. > > Be like water my friend ... > Alan G. Monaghan > Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:08:45 -0800 (PST) From: Ed Jones <cuisinartoh at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Basement Brewing with propane burner Paul asks about basement brewing: "I see posts now and then where home brewers mention their basement brewery. To them, I have a question. Are you brewing with a propane burner in your basement?? If YES, what type of ventilation do you have? I recently go hold of a 170,000 BTU King Kooker unit and will be moving to all grain soon. I would like to brew in my basement, problem is that I have only 2 small basement type window down there. No bilco doors or other openings to the outside. I feel that I could mount fans to these windows but don't know if that would provide sufficient ventilation. If this is a no go then I guess I will be brewing outside or in the garage. Your feedback on this will be more than welcome." I have a basement brewery (http://ironacres.com/brewery.html). I use natural gas and not propane and I built a fume hood to remove the steam, smell, but most importantly CO and CO2 gasses from combustion. I suppose you could use propane in the house so long as the propane tanks were outside, but I wouldn't do it myself. I seem to recall that propane is heavier than air and will 'pool' at ground level if there is a leak. If it migrates to the pilot light of the hot water heater BOOM! Ventilation is your other concern. You will need to move a LOT of air to keep the noxious gases out of your home. I have a furnace blower motor drafting outside and I open 3 windows for make-up air. It works reasonably well but I wont kid you, I'm still a little nervous about it but no problems so far. There were two reasons I wanted to move inside: 1. To stay warm in the winter and 2. so I didnt have to lug fermenters down the stairs from the garage into the basement. I still use carboys and man, that's just scary hauling them down the steps. But that said, ff I had it to do over again (and someday I will), I would setup my brewery in the garage or and outbuilding or build an electric brewery for the house. I'd switch to plastic or stainless steel fermenters and get a cheap hand truck to help move them up and down the stairs if necessary. The other approach I've seen done is to connect a hose from the chiller in the garage brewery to the fermenter in the basement. If you choose to go the basement route, reconsider the use of propane. Build and electric brewery if you can. If you use natural gas, make sure you have a LOT of ventilation. Window fans will not suffice. I have the experience to prove it. Hopefully those brewers with electric breweries will pipe up with their thoughts. Good luck! ===== Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian "When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment, I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery." - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:35:10 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Basement Brewing with propane burner "Romanowsky, Paul" <paul.romanowsky at siemens.com> writes: >I recently go hold of a 170,000 BTU King Kooker unit and will be moving to >all grain soon. I would like to brew in my basement, problem is that I have >only 2 small basement type window down there. No bilco doors or other >openings to the outside. I feel that I could mount fans to these windows >but don't know if that would provide sufficient ventilation. If this is a >no go then I guess I will be brewing outside or in the garage. I am suspicious that you will be hard pressed to get enough ventilation without a hood and fan, but regardless, I strongly recommend that anyone brewing inside, even a garage, get and use a digital carbon monoxide detector. I use a Nighthawk that begins to display at 8 ppm (although it says that it has not been investigated for detection at levels below 60 ppm). I brew in the attached garage, and when levels get above 20-30 ppm, I open the doors wider. It's always a balance in the winter between warmth and CO. OSHA limits exposure to 50 ppm for 8 hours http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/carbonmonoxide/recognition.html I like to keep it well below that. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:18:02 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: 10 gallon system recommendations jim williams <jimswms at cox.net> writes: >I'm looking for recommendations on complete 10 gal. Systems. So far, I've >looked at the sabco Brew Magic and Pico brewing system. The Sabco system >looks like the homebrewers holy grail, but, it sure is expensive! That said, >is it worth the $$? What else is out there? Any recommendations greatly >appreciated. I'll simply say that pico-Brewing Systems http://www.pico-brewing.com/ owner and engineer/fabricator Mike O'Brien is a long time friend, member of Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, and a helluva nice guy. He's a real grease under the fingernails engineer type who can make or fix anything. The standard system is made from 15.5 gallon half barrels, but Mike has designed and installed 15 barrel systems, and he makes a five gallon "femto" system for stove top brewing. The 55 gallon steam heated one is really nifty - I've brewed on it a couple of times. Many AABG members use pico systems and love 'em. I myself use a ten gallon non-standard pico system that Mike made for me from ten gallon aluminum stock pots. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:33:00 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Hetzel <hetzelnc at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Basement Brewing with propane burner Romanowsky, Paul <paul.romanowsky at siemens.com> wrote: I see posts now and then where home brewers mention their basement brewery. To them, I have a question. Are you brewing with a propane burner in your basement?? If YES, what type of ventilation do you have? I recently got hold of a 170,000 BTU King Kooker unit and will be moving to all grain soon. I would like to brew in my basement, problem is that I have only 2 small basement type window down there. No bilco doors or other openings to the outside. I feel that I could mount fans to these windows but don't know if that would provide sufficient ventilation. If this is a no go then I guess I will be brewing outside or in the garage. Your feedback on this will be more than welcome. <stuff deleted> *** If you're concerned about ventilation then you probably know that burning propane (or any fuel for that matter) releases carbon monoxide. CO is an oderless, colorless gas that is extremely dangerous (you may have heard the stories of people using a propane stove or lamp in their tents while camping and dying as a result). I would highly recommend against using a propane stove in your basement, as fans mounted in your two windows (one blowing in, one blowing out of course) still probably won't do the job. To be sure, purchase a CO detector and install it away from the window, somewhere it could acculumate but near the source. To be safe, go outside, as there I'm willing to bet those that brew in their cellars are using electrical heaters. A quick google search turned up this website: http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/coinformation.htm The name pretty much says it all. Another, more detailed site (www.coheadquarters.com) also mentions this (verbatim): Now, an emerging body of evidence suggests that longer exposures to lower levels of CO, ie. chronic CO poisoning, are capable of producing a myriad of debilitating residual effects that may continue for days, weeks, months and even years. Na zdrowie! -Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:49:39 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Wedge <markwedge at yahoo.com> Subject: Competition Announcement: 2003 Bluebonnet Brew-off The Bluebonnet Committee is pleased to announce the 17th Annual Bluebonnet Brew-off 2003 homebrewing competition. The Bluebonnet Brew-off is an AHA and BJCP sanctioned competition as well as a MCAB Qualifying Event. It is also the first leg of the Gulf Coast Competition. The Bluebonnet Brew-off be held March 21-22, 2003 at the Holiday Inn, Dallas/FT Worth Airport South, 4440 W. Airport Freeway, Irving, TX 75062. We are proud to announce that Dr. Chris White from White Labs will be the keynote speaker for the event. Entries will be accepted from all BJCP/AHA beer style categories, including cider and mead as well as a New Entrant Category. The style guidelines may be viewed at http://www.bluebonnetbrewoff.com under the 2003 Bluebonnet Information link. Three bottles are required for entry with an entry fee of U.S.$7.00 for early entries and U.S.$9.00 for late entries. Online Registration and automatic entry form and bottle label generation is available at http://www.bluebonnetbrewoff.com under the 2003 Bluebonnet Information link. For people that are unable to register online downloadable forms are also available from the website in the downloads section. Bluebonnet Brew-off Schedule __________________________________________________________________ Early Entries Accepted from Friday, February 14, 2003 to Saturday, February 22, 2003 Late Entries Accepted from Sunday, February 23, 2003 to Saturday, March 1, 2003. First Round Judging Saturday & Sunday March 8 & 9, 2003 Saturday & Sunday March 15 & 16, 2003 Bluebonnet Brew-off Friday & Saturday March 21 & 22, 2003 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:15:51 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: wine yeast and kit taste Fair warning to the brewers out there. This is largely about wine stuff, so... Nothing to see here, move along, folks, move along... Bill Wible writes: > Some people who make wine don't use any yeast at > all. They crush their grapes and let them ferment > naturally, from whatever micro-organisms happened > to be on the grapes from the field when they were > picked. And people have been doing this for > centuries. > > I guess yeast isn't as big a deal with wine as > it is with beer? Other experiences? While the overall impact of a certain strain will have a less noticeable effect on wine than beer, I would not go so far as to say yeast choice is not a big deal. There are dozens of dry yeast strains available to the commercial winemaker, and they take great care in selecting a strain or strains to provide different nuances to the wine. Wine is all about nuances, you know. ;-) Only a very few get packaged up in small packets suitable for your typical home winemaker. In that respect, Lallemand, Red Star, and Gist-Brocades are not that very much different from DCL. The difference is, they don't try to tell the amateur winemaker that, for example, EC-1118 is just the small package version of CY3079. If DCL is indeed doing this, that is extremely disrespectful of the amateur community. I'm now waiting for Alan McKay to call for a boycott of DCL yeasts over this. ;-) As to the practice of using wild yeast to ferment your wine, this is a path fraught with peril for most amateurs. Commercial wineries that do this (and to the best of my knowledge it is very rare on this side of the pond) do so because they have found that their natural yeasts produce an organoleptically acceptable product. Certainly, all winemaking started out this way. However, over the centuries, winemakers have helped the process along by encouraging beneficial yeast colonies to dominate a vineyard by returning the spent grape pomace of good wines back into the vineyard. Your typical amateur working from a few boxes of Lodi Zinfandel does not have this heritage working in their favour, and is much better off innoculating with a good commercial yeast. Mike Sharp writes: > > This surprises me. I've always assumed the wine kits were > concentrated using ultrafiltration. I've worked with systems > that concentrate grape juice using this system, and heat is > not involved (at least during the concentration part). > Anyone here know how the kit wines are produced? Especially > the red kits? I will defer to your first hand knowledge of the process since I have none. This was related to me by what I considered to be a knowledgeable source some time back. I suspect heat is a factor in colour extraction for reds, and I would also assume that heat is involved in producing a product that is shelf stable. Yes, I know the old joke about "when you assume,..." but I won't complete that sentence for fear of triggering Pat's filters. Whatever it is, there's something in those kit wines that make them my first choice for when the in-laws come over. ;-) And what happened to the Jan 15th Digest? I'll bet a lot of people went into Pavlovian spasms over this. ;-) Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:16:31 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Hetzel <hetzelnc at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: My first mead / melomel From: "Andy Mikesell" <andrew.mikesell at sybase.com> I brewed my first mead (or is it considered a Melomel?) last night and had a few questions. The simple brew is: - 17.5 lbs clover honey - 6 lbs cherries - 2 packs (10 oz) Red star champagne yeast - Yeast Nutrient The OG is 1088. Does this sound right for 17.5 lbs of honey? The carboy temp is currently 68 F and I expect primary fermentation to run 4 - 6 weeks. I can move the carboy to bring it as low as 40 F, or as high as 76 F. Opinions, advice, experience? I used liquid finings in my last 2 all-grains with great success. Should I consider using finings here at the 2nd or 3rd racking? I am undecided on hopping but have considered hallertau dry hopping at 3.5 - 4 AAU at the 2nd racking. Is this unadvisable? Other advice wrt hopping? Any other advice or gotchas? Thanks, Andy *** I tend to be very easy going about my meads so I'll just give some general advice, based on my experience. Skip the finings (it should clear fine with time, unless you boiled the fruit which could lead to pectin haze) and hops. Keep the temperature warm (70 or so). Be prepared to wait.. I don't touch my meads for a year (aside from tastings during transfers). About the fruit (which does makes it a melomel).. did you leave the cherries in? I always start with the heated (not boiled) wort and then toss in the fruit (frozen and thawed.. it helps extraction, as the water freezing breaks cell walls). Anyway, I leave the fruit in the primary (brew bucket) and let the yeast go at it for at least a week. The fruit mush should be discolored and floating (don't forget to "punch the cap" once a day or so.. ie push the floating schmeg back into the wort). Then I strain out the fruit, and transfer. I'll usually transfer two more times over the course of the year.. I prefer to bulk age. About the honey, thats seems about right for 5 gal. The champagne yeast will ferment dry (as opposed to sweet), with high alcohol. Congrats on venturing into mead making. Hope this helps. Na zdrowie, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:15:32 -0800 From: "DRTEELE" <drteele at bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Brewhouse efficiency - ----- Original Message ----- Mike wrote: > > Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:33:36 -0500 > From: "Michael Maag" <MichaelMaag at doli.state.va.us> > Subject: Brewhouse efficiency > > I got a OG of 1.061 using 11 lbs of 2 row (yield points/lb/gal= 79) > and 11 lbs of Munich (yield points/lb/gal= 75). > Batch size 10 gal. > What is my brewhouse efficiency? (please list the formula, not > "plug it in to ProMash" ) > Mike, I think the yield numbers you are listing are for points per kilogram per gallon. IIRC, typical yield for base malt should be around 36 points/lb/gal, which agrees with your yield numbers for kilos. Equation 1: Weight of malt X yield points = available yield points (sum up all malts if malts have different yields) Equation 2: O.G. of wort X gallons = extracted yield points Equation 3: Extracted yield / available yield = efficiency. With your numbers, your brewhouse efficiency is about 33%. If your yield numbers are for kilos, your efficiency jumps to 79%. Big difference, huh? (Not bad for an extract brewer) Dan in Sunny South Florida (where some cool weather has finally arrived) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:34:30 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: Berliner weiss and "other" stuff Rick Foote talks about making a Berliner weiss... I started making these a few years ago, with the results in the archives of the HBD. I had a few recipes under my belt and was then fortunate to travel to Germany, albeit Munich and not Berlin. We found one bar (I think it was Paulaner downtown) that served Berliner Weiss but what I was served already had the fruit syrup in it and was given to me with a STRAW!!! No wonder I was scowled at by the braufrau who served it. I clearly understood how the Muencheners feel about this particular style. I found a few bottles of Berliner Weiss in a beer store and brought them home. I was absolutely shocked at how sour these beers are and doubt that many of the HB judges get it either. My first thought was "Ye gods! They're THIS sour?!" But they are. The true geek in me would have taken my pH meter out and measured, but there's lots of background info on it. Let's just say that there's a big taste difference between the pH ~4.4 of "normal" beer and the pH ~3.0 (I'm guessing) of Berliner Weiss. My best luck in making this style is to underpitch the yeast and give it a day's head start then pitch the lacto culture with no starter. After about a month in the primary at room temps, it's sour enough to send to the chest freezer to chill. The lactobacillus will still keep souring this even at low temps. The only way I've found to stop it is to chill the beer to 30F. As for the "other" news I stirred up last week. Many of y'all have written to say you're shocked no more traffic is on the HBD about it. I'm not. No one is interested in a brewing flame war and I wasn't interested in starting one. But I do have dozens of emails from people experiencing similar stuff and/or poor experiences. They have ranged from shipping broken and/or used equipment, failure to ship (with the shop insisting it was shipped), accusations that the customer was of ill-repute in one form or another, telling one European customer that they no longer ship overseas even though the website touts overseas shipping, contacting the company of one customer and telling them that an attempted customer was using his email for personal use on company time to complain to her, and one instance of threatening a lawsuit. Complaints have been from buyers and suppliers. Also note that the store no longer offers an AHA discount and its proprietor resigned from a much-coveted position on the AHA Board of Advisors. A few people have even said they would no longer order from them and/or hold up a current order until the situation was explained. That's certainly not my intent, but of course everyone has the same right not to buy from St. Pat's as St. Pat's does to not sell to me. The lesson from all of this is two-fold: (1) if you like their selection, don't piss them off because you will not be allowed to play in their sandbox, and (2) if you do order from St. Pats, hope it's right the first time because correcting an incorrect order seems a little problematic. YMMV. I'm sure #1 explains much of it, as some people who've written to me specifically asked to not use their names publicly. I respect those requests. BTW, my first bits of equipment from the aborted order have already started to arrive from other, more user-friendly locales. In the end, the happy story about getting another newbie brewer into all-grain brewing and promoting the hobby is still there. Cheers! Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC - -- Marc Sedam Associate Director Office of Technology Development The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 308 Bynum Hall; CB# 4105 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-4105 919.966.3929 (phone) 919.962.0646 (fax) OTD site : http://www.research.unc.edu/otd Monthly Seminar Info: http://www.research.unc.edu/otd/seminar/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:34:14 -0500 From: George de Piro <george at EvansAle.com> Subject: Re: ferulic rest Hi all, I'm really sorry that it has taken me two weeks to reply to Steve's excellent post about 4 vinyl guaiacol (4vg) in Weizen beers. I had a lot more time to write beer stuff back in my days in the pharmaceutical industry! Steve wrote a lot of good information about the factors affecting the formation of 4vg in beer. He then asks: > > So George - how do you control & balance the clove vs ester flavors in your > weizens ? Temps, aeration, pitching rates, open fermenters etc ? Please > comment on what you see as the flavor and design issues for weizens. How > to you handle your hefe's ? How is that weizen yeast from Hubert Hangofer > working for you and do Logsdon-WY or White-WL vend it yet ? OK, the easy stuff first: yes, I still use Herr Hangoffer's Weizen yeast (Coming up on 4 years commercially). While it is banked at White Labs, it is not commercially available through them (as far as I know). I have given the yeast to several homebrewers, though. I don't like secretive brewing. Obviously, I like the way the yeast performs, and I believe the yeast to be the most critical ingredient in Weizenbier. To my senses, it is balanced on the clove side, with plenty of esters to balance, but not so much as to be a banana plantation. It does not like cool temperatures; I allow fermentations to go up to 78F (26C) to ensure that it will finish in a reasonable amount of time. The flavors it develops at this temperature are pleasing to me. I pitch the yeast at about 60-65 (15.6-18.3) and allow the temperature to rise on its own accord. Theoretically, this should slow the rate of yeast growth, thus inhibiting the production of fusel alcohols. I believe that pitching at a cooler temperature than you intend to ferment at is important for this reason in all beers, but especially for Weizenbier. They seem prone to fusel problems, especially at higher gravities. As for Steve's other questions: I lack the equipment to control pitching rates to a fine degree (I feel good when I'm within 3X10^6 of my target). Aeration control is even worse: all I can do is look at the bubbles in the site glass after the oxygen injector and take a guess at what I feel is the right amount of foam. I try to put as much O2 into my Weizen worts as all my other beers. Depriving yeast of O2 is simply not a good idea for the small brewer. We use closed fermentors at the brewpub, and could not possibly use open ones. The fermentation area is open to the restaurant, with airborne grease and smoke galore. I do not doubt that open fermentation would make a difference in flavor, but the risks are too great, and I don't know that the flavor difference would be a positive one. A brief aside: I've had precious few beers from small breweries with open fermentors that have tasted good more than a few feet from the source. It is an ancient technique suitable for making beers that will be drunk fresh, but if you require any kind of stability in the finished product, you need a lot of clean room technology surrounding the fermentor. As for other "flavor and design issues," one of the other keys to a good Weizen is keeping the hop rate low. Really low. 9 IBUs low. To my palate, the astringency of the phenols works to balance the malt. Adding too much hop bitterness can easily push the beer over the edge, creating a finish that is inelegant, if not unpleasant. Steve quotes me: > >> The low-temperature rest can have an undesirable impact on head retention >> and body of the beer. Too much protein degradation occurs at such low >> temperatures. > Steve replies: > OK - but Kunze suggests intensive mashing for wheat malt. I'd expect much > worse head+body problems from a 50C-55C rest, but certainly 43C-45C isn't > helpful. Isn't this offset by the wheat malt characteristics George, or > is the problem that your brewing hardware requires a slow rise thru the > 50-55C danger zone if you mash-in at 45C ? I believe Kunze is a bit out of date with that statement. Briess malting brags that their wheat malt is so well modified that it should be single-step mashed. Weyermann wheat malt is also quite well-modified, and is successfully mashed with no low temperature rests. Four years ago, I posted about a conversation I had with Hans-Peter Drexler, the Brewmaster at Schneider und Sohns. He complained that it was very difficult to get wheat malt that was under-modified enough to withstand decoction mashing, despite the fact that their malt was contracted to specification, and they even had farmers contracted to grow wheat to their specifications! As a homebrewer, when I used to decoction mash just about everything, I learned to skip all low-temperature by cooling the decoction a bit before returning it to the mash that was already at saccharification temperature. This way, you can still obtain the (theoretically) positive flavor contribution of decoction mashing without over-cleaving proteins with low-temp rests. Have fun! George de Piro Head Brewer, C.H. Evans Brewing Company at the Albany Pump Station 19 Quackenbush Square Albany, NY, USA 12207 (518)447-9000 www.EvansAle.com Brewers of Kick-Ass Brown: Twice declared the Best American Brown Ale in the USA at the Great American Beer Festival (2000 & 2002)! Return to table of contents
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