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Contents:
  Writer's cramp... (Bev Blackwood II)
  Re:Subject: Pumpernickel (jim williams)
  Re: No more brewers resource? ("Mike Sharp")
  RE: competition conundrums ("Jerry Barkley")
  What up wi'dat? ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  220 Volt Heater (Thomas Rohner)
  Controling 240V Brew Pot. ("Dan Listermann")
  Ownership of yeast strains ("A.J. deLange")
  re: Attenuation control options and affects ("Steve Alexander")
  multiple choice BJCP exam ("Tom & Dana Karnowski")
  Some basement brewing concepts ("Mike Brennan")
  RE: kit wines and doctors (Brian Lundeen)
  St. Pat's and the Free Market ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Reselling White Labs' yeast (Calvin Perilloux)
  Wheat beer questions ("Lyga, Daniel M.")
  potential extract dimensions (David Towson)
  Re: LBHS Chatter (Wil)
  Re: 220 Volt Electric Boiling Kettle ("Drew Avis")
  Immersion Heaters (David Hooper)
  Lots of good stuff lately (David Perez)
  batch sparging efficiency and Rubbermaid coolers ("Chuck Dougherty")
  converted keg brew pot (Wyatt Francis)
  off the shelf brew systems ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  Melting Point of Stainless Steel? (Jennifer/Nathan Hall)
  Re: barleywine overcarbonation ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Lauter efficiency / diacetyl rests (George de Piro)


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Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:07:39 -0600
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: Writer's cramp...

> Oops Phil, you're leaking like a sieve;  any judge form received back 
> with
> only a few dozen words is not a good example of what should be done.

Hear, hear...  even before I joined the program, I had good guidance 
regarding scoresheet protocol, which was basically that you need to be 
as specific as possible in your criticism and that single word 
responses aren't good judging.  I tend to not re-enter contests where 
the feedback is poor.  I want to have confidence in the judging if I am 
spending my money on the contest.

> Frankly if someone isn't willing to put out the effort to write for 
> this exam, perhaps they should consider whether this is really the 
> right activity for them.

An excellent point.  If judging was easy, everyone could do it.  I also 
agree with the point that unless everyone is taking the test the same 
way, then there's a disparity.  While it was pointed out that good test 
software exists, then it becomes a burden to maintain continuity 
between sites.  Finding the requisite number of computers for an exam 
(and the configuration issues) becomes an issue.  Even in a corporate 
setting, there are 4 different versions of Windows (98,NT, 2000 and XP) 
running at my office, and I can see 10 loaned computers being a similar 
configuration nightmare for a proctor.  Let's remember the BJCP doesn't 
have unlimited funds and that it's run by volunteers.  Pencils are 
cheaper and easier to work with than PC's.

I'll accept writer's cramp, just as I do at every contest, when it 
comes time to re-take my exam.

Just a word of advice to those worried about writing AND tasting... 
take the sections independently, it gives you more time to focus on the 
task at hand.

 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
Brewsletter Editor
The Foam Rangers
http://www.foamrangers.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 02:07:02 -0500
From: jim williams <jimswms at cox.net>
Subject: Re:Subject: Pumpernickel 

Nice to see another baker on the HBD. I used to frequent this board often,
but got busy moving across country, starting a business etc. I've just
brewed a couple times the last couple years, but, will be doing more soon on
my new pico system! Anyway, anybody looking for baking advice, can certainly
contact me as well.
http://www.sevenstarsbakery.com

Cheers,
Jim



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Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:54:55 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: No more brewers resource?

jim williams asked:

"Damn. I needed to order some yeast, and it looks like they are out of
business. Too bad, it was great dealing with them! I am in need of a new
yeast supplier, preferably one offering yeast on slants as brewtek did. Does
anyone have any ideas?"

Mike Replies:

http://www.brewingscience.com/

They have lots of strains, and they sell plates of all of them.  They have
something like 32 brewtek strains.  Probably all of them.  Click on Yeast,
then Search on the left hand column.

Regards,
Mike Sharp




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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 07:59:22 -0500
From: "Jerry Barkley" <gbarkley at charter.net>
Subject: RE: competition conundrums

Brian Lundeen wrote:

"At the judging table, a judge is in no position to have their library of
references at their disposal. There is nothing there to provide helpful
prompts. The judge must know the necessary information, and be able to
recall it from memory without other aids. By turning to multiple choice
questions, I am concerned that we will be certifying judges who have not
demonstrated an ability to do this."

let me make a reply that is based upon my very limited experience: i would
think that the biggest challenge in becoming a good judge would be
developing the tasting acuity and ability to recognize the flavors, tastes
and aromas called for in the style guidelines. i would think that it would
be esaier to judge with good taste buds and a crib sheet on the style at
hand, then to have memorized the style guide but not know the tastes,
flavors and aromas.

take myself as an example, my experiences in grad school tell me that
learning the style guidlines and related info needed to pass the exam would
be a reasonable task, but i do not have the taste buds for the job. could i
pass an essay exam? yes; could i judge effectively? no way.  if i had the
tasting ability at hand, i would not feel the least bit of hesitation to
take my palm with the style guide and go judge a style.

in short, i think that good judging is about tasting ability more than
anyting else.

Cheers
Jerry Barkley
- --
http://webpages.charter.net/gbarkley/
- --
"It's not a popularity contest, it's beer!"
Mike Dixon
- --


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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:16:42 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: What up wi'dat?

I remember way back when discussing the value
of mashing out and the improvement of foam/mouthfeel;
I was blasted because the experiment was conducted
with the mash tested at a water grist ratio of 6:1.
This was described as out of line with normal brewery
practice and way too thin of mash. Now I read:

>>A few rules of thumb ---

>>According to the texts, total water (mash+lauter) should be
>>under 8L/kg of grist.  That's 3.75qt/lb in US HB terms.
>> I think that the upper bound for HB use should be around
>>3.25 or 3.5qt/lb.  

 That describes a a water/grist ratio of 6.6:1 to 8:1, maybe that
study of foam active components wasn't that out of line from
normal brewery practice? 

NL


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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:11:37 +0100
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: 220 Volt Heater

Hi Andy
the part you need is called a PID temperature controller. You might
as well need a temp. probe (thermocouple) if it is not supplied with
the controller. These devices are also used for building RIMS systems.
Omega Engineering, Inc. (Part #CN8590-DC1) would be a possible device.
If your load exceeds the rating of the PID output stage, you need
a solid state relay or something similar.
As a electronics engineer i give you the advice that you should only
work with 220 Volts in a wet enviroment, if you know what you do.
That means especially proper grounding. And the use of a ground fault
protector is mandantory. (If you love your live)
2. thought: if the temperature precision is not so critical, you could
as well use a electromechanic thermostat. This will be much cheaper,
but the rating of the contacts have to be considered as well.

happy brewing and building

Thomas


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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:12:59 -0500
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Controling 240V Brew Pot.

 Andy Buhl <buhlandr at pilot.msu.edu> asks about this.  While this may not be
the answer he is looking for, I approached this problem differently.  First
you will pay dearly for a 7000 or so watt element.   Common hot water heater
elements are far cheaper and easier to find, but they only go to about 5500
W as far as I can tell.  I have a pot with two elements, a 3500 and a 4500.
When I want to bring the wort to a boil, I plug both in.  I can then
regulate the boil by using only one or the other.  This solves two problems.
I have inexpensive, easy to acquire elements and my control system consists
of two electric cord plugs.  Further, if one or the other element fails, I
can still brew.  It will just take longer to get to the boil.

Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com

Free shipping for orders greater than $35
and East of the Mighty Miss.






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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:27:02 +0000
From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Ownership of yeast strains

The world changeth. One of the oldest, most persistent and, IMO, 
charming traditions of the brewing profession over the years has been 
the willingness of one brewer/brewery to supply yeast to another without 
question. This tradition has certainly benefited many a homebrewer who 
lives near a micro or regional.  But this tradition too seems to be 
disappearing, as have so many others, because of the lure of a few extra 
bucks.

As for being able to sell the seeds from one's tomato plants - be 
careful. Read the packet carefully. You will find several that 
specifically enjoin the purchaser from selling or even replanting seeds 
derived from the fruits grown with the purchased seeds. The large seed 
companies consider the DNA in those seeds to be their intellectual 
property, covertly sample farmers crops and bring suit if they can prove 
that a second generation was planted without purchasing new seed from them.

As an aside - you don't want to grow tomatoes from the seeds of last 
years plants as most varieties are hybrids.

Cheers, A.J.



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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:28:28 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Attenuation control options and affects

Martin Brungard says,

> Many of the readers on this list know about different brewing options that
>purposely alter the attenuation of a beer.  Options such as mashing
>temperatures and water/grist ratios, yeast selection, or prematurely
halting
>fermentation are attenuation control examples that I know of. [...]

When mashing for low fermentability - regardless of whether you are
controlling time, temperature, pH, thickness, etc you are primarily limiting
the beta-amylase and only secondarily changing the amount of  alpha-amylase
activity.  You'd need specific alpha-amylase inhibitors to do otherwise.

There are two major sorts of wort dextrins to consider - 1/ amylose (chains
of 1-4 linked glucose) such as maltose(M2), maltotriose(M3),
maltotetraose(M4) ... and 2/ branched dextrins which normally have 1-3
connected glucose molecules in addition to 1-4 links.  There are a few odd
sugars in wort like a little fructose and sucrose and isomaltose perhaps
produced in the boil.  We'll ignore the glucans and xylans and the other
stuff that don't play in the current discussion.

By the time an iodine test is negative there is little amylose with a length
greater 10 or so (M10).   The amounts of straight chain amylose increase as
the amylose chain length decreases so there is more M3(maltotriose) then
M4(maltotetraose), more M4 than M5, ....    This is so till we hit
Maltose(M2).  Grain alpha-amylase doesn't produce as much maltose(M2) or
glucose(M1) as you'd expect from 'random' 1-4 link cleavage because the
enzyme molecule doesn't conveniently align on the 1st or second bond of an
amylose segment.   AA acts randomly, but not uniformly.  Some texts show the
probabilities of cleavage vs distance from the non-reducing end.

Anyway a highly fermentable wort will have lots of maltose(M2), but most
(not all) produced by beta-amylase.  If we curtail the beta-amylase activity
by mashing thin or hot then we get a lot less maltose and those lost maltose
molecules remain attached to higher amylose molecules (there is more M4, M5,
M6 ...) and also some lost maltose appears in larger more complex branched
dextrins.  If there was no beta-amylase activity at all we'd get some
maltose from alpha-amylase activity.

So for a given fermentability the mix of wort sugars is pretty similar.   As
the fermentability rises the amounts of Maltose rises substantially and the
amounts of the higher amyloses (M4, M5, ...M10) decrease and the branched
dextrins decrease in size.

As Martin says you can also use a low attenuating yeast, or stop a yeast
before it fully attenuates (with sulfite or sorbate).   Usually this means
the yeast consume the glucose, fructose, sucrose, maltose, but only
partially ferments maltotriose.

- ---

So the difference between low attenuation by yeast vs low attenuation by
mashing is the major distinction.

If the low attenuation is due to mashing, then the extra final gravity comes
from more unfermentable amyloses (M4...M10) and larger sized branched
dextrins.  The larger dextrins and amylose will increase mouthfeel - i.e
feel dextrinously full and heavy like a triple.

If the yeast are the limiting factor then you'll have a significant amount
of maltotriose left unfermented.    Maltotriose may be the most prevalent
carbohydrate in this case.   This would make the beer subject to infection
since maltotriose is fermentable by wild yeasts.  Maltotriose is modestly
sweet, so an arrested fermentation beer should also have more sweetness.
Maltotriose will add something to the dextrinous mouthfeel but likely less
than the dextrin&amylose mix of a hot mash.

- --

I have nothing against low attenuating yeasts that may leave a beer with
attenuation in the high-60% range, but I don't think forcibly arresting
fermentation with sorbate or sulfite  is a good idea in beer since there is
no diacetyl & VDK resolution.

If you want residual sweetness or dextrins then crystal & caramel malts act
more reliably and safely by adding unfermentable carbohydrates & complexes.

In the wine industry 18 years back there were a spate of import wines with
small amounts of aspartame added.   Although an illegal adulterant in
commercial wines, the aspartame gave an excellent warm melting sweetness to
the wines (these were dry cabernets with just a hint of background
sweetness).  I see no reason why aspartame or sucralose wouldn't work in
homebrew as a source of residual sweetness.   You'd have to experiment and
see.

Maltodextrin powder, available from many HB shops will add dextrinous
mouthfeel to beer and almost no sweetness.

 -S



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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:01:21 -0500
From: "Tom & Dana Karnowski" <karnowsk at esper.com>
Subject: multiple choice BJCP exam

I agree with Brian Lundeen when he says multiple choice questions are like
an actor with a teleprompter.  There is nothing like an essay question to
see if you really know a subject or not.  Remember that "the purpose of the
BJCP is to promote beer literacy and the appreciation of real beer, and to
recognize beer tasting and evaluation skills."

But I don't think including multiple choice answers for some of the
questions would hurt the overall effectiveness of judges.  I'm not sure I
agree with some of Brian's logic when he says:

>At the judging table, a judge is in no position to have their library of
references at their disposal. >There is nothing there to provide helpful
prompts. The judge must know the necessary information, >and be able to
recall it from memory without other aids.

At every competition I've been to, judges do have the BJCP guidelines in
front of them, usually provided by the competition organizer.  At the exam
you do not get this luxury.

Also, many of the BJCP exam questions do not immediately pertain to scoring
beers at a competition, or do so only in an indirect way.  As an example,
some good feedback for an underattenuated, sweet beer could be "try to mash
at at a lower temperature".  You don't really get more information if the
judge includes "to get more beta amylase activity as opposed to alpha
activity".  Knowing the DETAILS about the amylases and their effect on
saccharification is important for beer brewing and beer literacy but it
doesn't (IMHO) help you evaluate beers better.

In fact, if you look at the BJCP study guide at www.bjcp.org, you will see
that some(not ALL, of course) of the questions allow you to show your
knowledge of beer & brewing but don't really make you a better beer
evaluator or troubleshooter.

These kinds of questions help show that a person is indeed beer literate,
but they could be replaced in parts by multiple choice questions.  I think
this would help the writers' cramp that most of us get during exams.  I
don't think including them would reduce the effectiveness of judges at all,
if they are done right.

Tom Karnowski
Knoxville TN
National BJCP judge







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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:01:34 -0600
From: "Mike Brennan" <brewdude at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Some basement brewing concepts

I used to brew in the basement many moons ago, before I moved from Chgo to
Florida.  Sheet metal is cheap.  One could easily make a small enclosed
brewing box and vent it using low cost drier exhaust parts, including an
electric exhaust fan.  Heck you could even rig it up to vent out an existing
drier vent if you so desired.  I used old metal shelving which I surrounded
with sheet metal.  I cut holes in the shelves big enough to place the keg,
so it would sit on my Cajun cooker.  The shelving added stability, although
it was a pain to cut the holes.  The top of the Keg protruded about 8 inches
above the top shelf.  I power vented the enclosed bottom near the burner
using a 4" 90 degree elbow, drier tubing with an electric exhaust fan.  I
also used a window box fan mainly to exhaust the steam created by the boil
and opened other windows in the basement to ensure a good fresh air flow.
Having to do it again I would skip the shelves and build a custom brewing
box using sheetmetal and angle iron.  All of this stuff is very inexpensive.
Yes, I had a CO detector and I never stored the propane in the basement.



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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:46:54 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: kit wines and doctors

Nathaniel Lansing writes:

>  Brian, this is not meant as an argument, just food for 
> thought. Afterall, a manufacturer can say,  "That's taste is 
> from  hydroxymethylfurfural and unavoidable."  or they could 
> say, "That taste is because of the added sugar." Which do you 
> think they are more apt to say?  By the way, I never tasted 
> it, and I've tasted numerous kit wines. Which brand do you 
> taste that in?
> 

I would say they are more apt to say, there is no such thing as a kit wine
taste, and that I'm imagining it, and that any problems experienced are
because the winemaker did not use all of their ingredients, in exactly the
manner outlined in their instructions, and therefore, the problem is out of
their hands. Now, for my own products, there is little I could do to dispute
that last part. I won't add bentonite at the start of fermentation, I won't
add potassium sorbate to a dry wine, I won't use a nameless yeast pack of
unknown age, and I won't ferment them at 75 degrees F. I buy the white kits
to get varietals that I can't source elsewhere, but I am not going to give
up good winemaking practices just because the instructions must make the kit
fool-proof for the lowest common denominator. ;-)

A lot of my experience with kit wines is from other winemakers at club
events. As such, I don't know (in truth, never bothered to ask) which kits
the wines were made from. Obviously, there are many factors at play, from
the quality of the kit, to the quality of the winemaker. My recent ventures
have been with Spagnol's 16 liter products, I probably should give the Brew
King 16 liter kits a try, for comparison. I can't bring myself to buy the
pure concentrate, sugar added kits. Possibly those are where my worst
tasting experiences are coming from. But so far, even the higher end kits
just haven't produced a wine that I can drink without thinking, there's
something in there that just ain't right. Anyway, thanks for your comments.
I shall continue to perplex over this.

Jeff Renner writes:
   
> The doc didn't have much to say in the face of this irrefutable 
> logic.  She then suggested my sister drink lots of cranberry juice. 
> Probably better advice.
> 

That reminds me of a joke.

Q: What do you call the person that graduated at the bottom of their class
from medical school?
A: Doctor.

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:54:59 -0500
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <rickdude02 at earthlink.net>
Subject: St. Pat's and the Free Market

I have heard a few complaints about St. Pat's in the past (actually, about 
Lynne O'Conner), but I never heard of them refusing service to anyone.  I 
have no reason to doubt Marc's story, though.

Is this illegal?  I don't know.  Is it ethical?  Absolutely.  As a business 
owner, I reserve the right to do business with whomever I 
choose.  Sometimes that can be based on being ticked off at someone (I 
simply can't imagine that-- a sale's a sale) and sometimes it might be 
through a courtesy to someone else.

Case in point-- when I was contacted by Lynne about 8 or 9 years ago, I 
refused to deal with her on the product she was interested in 
(Straight-A).  Why?  Because I had an exclusive distribution deal in the 
U.S. with two other companies.  I simply could not ethically sell direct, 
even though I had no written contract stipulating that.  Lynne understood, 
and that was that.  Boy, do I wish I was unethical!!!<g>

If you have a problem with someone's exclusionary practices, do what has 
been done here-- publicize, criticize, and act if you are so moved.  But 
when you starting talking about whether something is legal or illegal and 
whether or not we can regulate this type of behavior, you start putting 
into place the framework which allows special interest regulation to 
proliferate and the doors open wide to legislated corruption.  (Yes, it 
seems like a stretch; feel free to email me in private for more information 
if you want it.)

Bottom line-- shop at St. Pat's if you like it (I occasionally do, even 
though I can't sell them stuff), and don't if you don't.  And feel free to 
spread your opinion, just don't expect everyone to agree with you.  That's 
what being American is supposed to be about.

Rick Theiner
LOGIC, Inc. 




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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:04:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Reselling White Labs' yeast

<Peter Ensminger mentions Mark Vernon's problem and
 White Labs threatening legal action over re-selling
 of yeast cultures based on White Labs' strains>

>> I have long been wondering just who *owns* all these different
>> yeast strains anyway. Surely, Chris White got his yeast from
>> somewhere...

A very good point!  Taking this from a legal perspective,
I note that White Labs and Wyeast seem to take pains to
avoid using the original source name of any of their yeasts.
(Where's that debate about Ayinger a few weeks ago?)  
White Labs is probably passing along the "restriction".

If you are selling the yeast as "White Labs 810", for example,
I can see them getting upset.  Whether they could actually win
a legal battle (assume fair funding of lawyers on each side!)
that's one I'd let more experienced legal scholars argue.  
But White Labs are probably basing their argument on the 
use of their name.

If you *never* referring to White Labs per se, but instead offer
your own description of the yeast strain, it's no different than
reselling carrot seed (keeping in mind that you might not be able
to use the Yates-trademarked name for the "Super Orange Deluxe" 
carrots whose seeds you're selling).  It's not the yeast; it's
the *name*.  

(Exception:  Any bloody thing with Roundup resistance will bring
swarms of Monsanto lawyers upon you because Monsanto actually
"created" that organism.  Sigh.  That's philosophical/ethical/legal
debate of whole 'nother dimension, though.)

Of course, of you re-sell it under an unrelated name, you then 
have the problem of people not knowing for sure exactly what you're
selling if you give it a name like "Vernons Folly Ale Yeast" :-) 
but that's what we deal with already when we speculate on which
brewery White Labs got <name your strain> from to begin with.

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA




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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:04:22 -0500
From: "Lyga, Daniel M." <daniel.lyga at pw.utc.com>
Subject: Wheat beer questions

Hello.

	I am planning my first attempt at a true wheat beer in the next week
or so; I have had success with several batches of Kolsch.  I would like to
make a German wheat with a grain bill of about 53% wheat & 47% 2-row... and
I have a couple of questions:

1. Is a protein rest required with this much wheat?  (I really wouldn't mind
a cloudy appearance)
2. I am planning on using a weizen yeast strain (wy3068).  Are there any
other special considerations (must dos) that I need to ensure I get plenty
of clove, banana, and phenolic flavor/aromas?

Thank you.

Dan Lyga
Harwinton, CT.


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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:08:03 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: potential extract dimensions

In HBD 4148, Steve Alexander, responding to an earlier post, says: "Sugar 
dissolved in water yields only 46.22 point-gallons-per-pound(pgpp)."  I 
much prefer this representation of potential extract dimensions to the 
usual "points-per-pound-per-gallon" , which I think is ambiguous.  If one 
interprets pts/lb/gal as meaning "points-per-pound for each gallon"  then 
it implies that for a given number of pounds, diluting the mash gives you 
more points, which is absurd.  But on the other hand, if one interprets it 
as "points for each pound-per-gallon", then having more lb/gal gives you 
more points, which is correct.

Dave in Bel Air, MD



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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:17:07 GMT
From: Wil at thebeermanstore.com
Subject: Re: LBHS Chatter

Vernon, Mark wrote in HBD #4148
>Okay I have been biting my tongue for a bit on this and cannot hold back any
>longer
Welp Mark, I think you should bite you tongue a bit longer. Its just
amazing, I have a fellow here in SC that uses the exact same line
"support your LHBS but only IF THEY SUPPORT YOU"  word for freaking
word. Are you two related? Anyway, you say you want support from your
LHBS and then go on to tell the HBD how you tried to completely NOT
support you LHBS by trying to go around him and under cut him at every
turn. And what's worse is you expect him to like it. Sorry son, it has
never worked that way and never will. Let me start of by asking you a
few questions. Who do you work for? What product or service do you
produce. Any unions in your line of work? Lobbyist? trade
organizations?  Counsels? perhaps copyrights or trademarks?  Business
laws involving licenses, zoning, insurance in your area? Hummm. What
does this have to do with selling yeast? Well, If I were to go out and
get my hands on Coke syrup, repackage it and call it something else
and sell it, do you think The lawyers at Coke would just over look it?
Not just no, but HE*L NO. I think I would have gone a bit further than
just tell White Labs about you, I would have asked to see your
business license, your sales tax numbers and perhaps looked into your
zoning laws. Not for profit you say, Bunk, You were producing and
selling a product. Besides, not for profits have laws, licenses and
paperwork to follow too. A club selling only to club members you say,
again Bunk, think Sams club and others. 
 Your LHBS has to deal with ALL of this and if your going to compete,
then lets make it a level playing field. Perhaps you think you were
treated unfairly...I think you got off easy.
Flyers, We don't need no stinkin' flyers. I have to ask you, Would you
put up a advertisement for a club/business/co-op/non-profit that was
competing directly with you in your business? I bet not. Besides, The
argument your LHBS is a valid one to any one that has a business.
I put up NONE.  Look who's whining now!

Wil Kolb
The Beer Man
Plaza at East Cooper
607 B Johnnie Dodds Blvd
Mt. Pleasant SC 29464
843-971-0805
Fax 843-971-3084

www.thebeermanstore.com
Wil at thebeermanstore.com

God bless America!


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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:20:23 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 220 Volt Electric Boiling Kettle

Andy Buhl asks about controlling a 240V system.  I've seen two approaches,
Andy, and they both seem to work well.  The cheap b*stard method is to
scavenge 2 stove switches.  A buddy has done this - one switch per element -
and it works well, though he has to fiddle a bit to get the boil just right.
They're cheap (or free in the right situation), and rated to 240V.  I use a
digital temperature controller, a Watlow 965, easily obtainable on eBay.  In
its manual mode, you can set the % output.  So while it's getting to the
boil, I set it to 100%.  Once the boil is achieved, I set it to about 50%,
which maintains a nice roll.

Cheers, and good luck!
Drew Avis, Member of Barleyment for Greater Merrickville, Ontario


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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:27:07 -0600
From: David Hooper <dhooper at everestkc.net>
Subject: Immersion Heaters

I presently use a Cajun cooker for my all grain and brew in my driveway. I
have a tandem basement garage, so boiling is out of the question since it is
very poorly ventilated. I am looking at going electric, but I can't find
anything specific for beer. Some of the hang on units from plumbing
supplies run in the neighborhood of $500 for an immersion heater, so I
thought I'd turn to HBD and get input from my fellow brewers on my options.
David Hooper
David Hooper

dhooper at eversetkc.net
http://pages.prodigy.net/david_hooper



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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:28:40 -0500
From: David Perez <perez at gator.net>
Subject: Lots of good stuff lately

With all the great threads lately, I thought I would come out of 
mooching mode and share some.

With all the posts about wine lately I found myself in a great homebrew 
shop (more on that to follow) and bought my first wine kit. A brief 
discussion ensued about liquid -vs- dry wine yeast . The consensus was 
the dry yeast provided is fine for making great wine. Then we started 
wondering about the effects of water chemistry on wine. This is an area 
I have been avoiding in my beer brewing due to a notable inability to 
wrap my brain around the subject. Jeff Renner posted a sort of H2O for 
Dummies (should have used my picture on the cover) a while back but I 
still can't seem to figure it out. To get to the point, what effect does 
water chemistry have on wine? Please remember that I am ionicly 
challenged and will need bicarbonate (whatever the hell that is) spoon 
fed to me.

On to the Local -vs- Mail order Homebrew Shop thread. The examples of 
the mail order shops sited have mostly been of the large company 
variety. We no longer have a local shop here in Gainesville and as such 
are forced to use mail order. I believe in supporting small local 
companies in most of my purchasing because I like the personal attention 
and the idea of helping a struggling business person make it. So I mail 
order from a really great small homebrew shop in Tallahassee called The 
Homebrew Den, http://www.homebrewden.com/ (najaVsc). John Larson, the 
proprietor, is dedicated to great customer service and is supportive of 
our club, even though we are over 100 miles away. We had the opportunity 
to visit the shop this weekend while judging at the Big Bend Brew Off 
(great comp guys!!!) and John was kind enough to open up on Sunday 
morning so a few of us could shop there. You just can't get that kind of 
service from a big company. Maybe we spend a few pennies more per order, 
but I would gladly pay that for the customer care I get from John and 
the other small businesses I frequent! Cheep is nice, but service is better.

As for posting competitions early, how about this? The Hogtown Brewers 
are in the early planning stages of our first open competition, to be 
held sometime in early Fall. We really enjoyed our AHA Club Only 
experience and want to move into the big leagues. Help out a new 
competition and plan to enter a bunch of beers. You should easily have 
enough time to brew up even the biggest of beers with this kind of 
advanced notice. We will post more info as it develops.

Dave Perez
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL




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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:29:14 -0600
From: "Chuck Dougherty" <jdougherty at wlj.com>
Subject: batch sparging efficiency and Rubbermaid coolers

I have been playing around with no sparge and batch sparge techniques recently.
My own highly unscientific analysis, and that of others that are ever-so-glad
to perform beer tastings on my behalf, is that this does in fact produce a
superior flavor.  I am happy to burn a little extra malt to achieve this result.
But I am very confused by the fact that some folks are claiming a higher
efficiency with no sparge or a two-step batch sparge than with fly sparging.  I
can get close to my fly sparging efficiency with a two-step batch sparge, but I
can't get quite the same, and I don't see how theoretically it would be possible
(or even desirable) to do so.  What am I missing?

On the subject of insulated water coolers as mash tuns, my 10 gal. cooler is all
kinds of warped on the inside but continues to serve me well after 5 years or
so.  Mine is a dark brown Rubbermaid model.  I think it was (is?) marketed to
food service folks; I got mine through a friend in the wholesale restaurant
supply business.

Chuck Dougherty
Little Rock, Arkansas


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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:56:45 -0600
From: Wyatt Francis <wyatt at francis.com>
Subject: converted keg brew pot


I just recently acquired a 1/2 (Sankey) keg and converted it to my new 
brew pot.  Since
I usually do 5 gallon (extract) batches, I'm only boiling about 3 
gallons of wort.  I plan
to boil more once I get a wort chiller for it.

A problem I noticed with the larger brew pot is that it is harder to 
tell if the wort
is boiling, because of the level of the wort and because of not be able 
to see through
the steam.  I had considered one of those glass weights that sit on the 
bottom of a pot
and clang as the liquid starts to boil.   I was curious the clever ways 
that homebrewers
have developed in determining when the wort is at a full boil?

A second question concerns transferring and filtering the wort to the 
fermenter.  I plan
on putting an outlet on the side (near the bottom, but above the seam) 
to drain the wort,
since I don't have a stand to mangae with a bottom drain.  I imagine 
that I'll have to tip
the keg as the level gets lower, but that's alright.  Are there better 
ways to transfer to
wort from a converted keg?  I usually strain the wort through some sort 
of screen as I
transfer it to remove most of the hops, however, a good portion of the 
cold break material
makes it through.  How important is it to remove this material when 
transferring to the
primary fermenter?  Are there better filters/strainers to use?

Thanks for the help.

Wyatt Francis
Denton, TX



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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:22:20 -0800
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com>
Subject: off the shelf brew systems

Rich Lanam in Warren, NJ was asking about off-the-shelf brew systems in 
Saturday's digest.  If no-one has chimed in yet, there's an interesting 
computerized RIMS system ABT Compu-Brew) available from Paddock Wood ($1549 
canadian, or about $1000 USD)

The link:  http://www.paddockwood.com/images/abtrims.pdf

Still gathering the last of the bits (false bottom/ screen/tap)for my first 
all-grain batch,

Steve Dale-Johnson
Delta, BC, Canada
[haven't figured out the rennerian yet ;)  ]







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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:02:02 -0500
From: Jennifer/Nathan Hall <hallzoo at comcast.net>
Subject: Melting Point of Stainless Steel?

A warning for those as dumb as me:

Don't leave your $30 a piece stainless steel ball valves in the sterilizing
pot too long, here's what happens:
1. Water reaches 212F and boils.
2. All bacteria die (hopefully)
3. Water continues to boil
4. Water boils dry
5. Valve continues to get hotter, melting the rubber coated handles and teflon
seats
6. Pot becomes red-hot, and fumes given off by above reach auto-ignition point
and explode, launching charred pieces of burnt valve seat and the pot lid 20
ft across the kitchen.

The cool thing out of all this is that I immediately contacted Zymico via
E-mail about where I could find more of these awesome valves. They immediately
responded, telling me to send in the crispy valves in exchange for some brand
spankin' new ones. What great guys! I guess the stupid don't always get
punished....

Nathan Hall
Melted Ball Valve Brewery



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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:50:30 -0600
From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: barleywine overcarbonation

On 18 Jan 2003 at 0:13, Request Address Only - No Articles wrote:

>  Palmer says as temperatures decrease, you need *less* priming sugar.
> What's up with that? I can see how the beer would absorb the CO2 more
> quickly at lower temperatures, but shouldn't the system (head
> space/beer) reach the same equilibrium given enough time?

As gases are more soluble at lower temps, the cooler beer starts out 
with more CO2 in solution at ambient pressure than a warmer beer at 
ambient pressures, so less additional CO2 is needed for proper 
carbonation levels.

Tidmarsh Major
Tuscaloosa, Ala.



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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:39:53 -0500
From: George de Piro <george at EvansAle.com>
Subject: Lauter efficiency / diacetyl rests

Hi all,

Steve A. has pointed out that minimizing sparging most probably has a
positive effect on beer flavor.  There is another reason that brewers,
particularly in Europe, like to not oversparge in the quest for efficiency:
energy savings.

One could attempt to eek out as much extract as possible from the malt by
sparging, but one would then end up with an overly dilute wort that would
require a lot of evaporation to reach the required gravity.  Malt is cheaper
than energy.

The latest lauter tun designs strive to reach a low runoff gravity quickly,
in other words, the rate of gravity drop in the runoff should be as high as
possible so that dilute wort need not be collected.  Modern breweries (esp.
in Germany) like to keep evaporation down below 5%.

Did I explain that well enough?
- ----------
Somebody wrote in a few days ago asking about diacetyl rests.  I haven't
noticed a thorough explanation yet, so here goes:

Diacetyl is formed when alpha acetolactate (AAL) is oxidized.  AAL is made
by yeast, and is not detectable by humans in the concentrations normally
occurring in beer.  The more AAL the yeast make, the more diacetyl potential
the beer will have.

Yeast can take up and metabolize diacetyl, thus reducing its concentration
in beer below taste threshold, but they do not metabolize AAL.  The idea of
a diacetyl rest is to speed up the oxidation of AAL to diacetyl so that the
yeast can metabolize it and the beer can get on with its life.  Increasing
the temperature of the beer will speed up these reactions.

You do not necessarily have to perform a diacetyl rest for every lager, and
you may sometimes need one for an ale.  How can one tell if the rest is
needed?

Take two samples of the young beer into covered containers.  50 ml should be
sufficient.  Heat one sample to about 50C (140F or so; you need not be
precise) for about 10 minutes (again, precision is not critical).  Keep the
other sample at cool room temperature.

Cool the sample in an ice bath to be about the same temperature as the
unheated sample.  Smell both.  Interpret results as follows:

1)  If the unheated sample smells clean, but the heated sample smells
buttery, there is an appreciable amount of AAL in the beer and the batch can
benefit from a diacetyl rest.

2)  If both samples smell clean, the AAL has already oxidized to diacetyl
which was then removed by the yeast and no further action is needed on your
part.  Note that if this beer later develops buttery flavors, it likely has
a bacterial infection (pediococcus).

3)  If both samples smell of diacetyl, the beer is either badly infected or
the yeast have not yet taken up the diacetyl that has formed.  If it is not
diminished after a few days at warm fermentation temperatures (i.e.,
diacetyl rest has no effect), then kraeusen with fresh, active yeast.

If you do deem it necessary to give a cool fermenting beer a warm rest, do
not worry about the temperature rising too quickly.  Yeast do not really
mind going from low to high temperatures (unless you cook them!).  Yeast can
be shocked into inactivity if they are chilled too quickly, though.

Please note that removing the yeast from the beer, or otherwise hindering
its activity, will leave nothing in the beer capable of reducing the
diacetyl as it forms.  Such a beer will become buttery over time.

Have fun!

George de Piro
Head Brewer, C.H. Evans Brewing Company
at the Albany Pump Station
19 Quackenbush Square
Albany, NY, USA 12207
(518)447-9000
www.EvansAle.com

Brewers of Kick-Ass Brown:  Twice declared the Best American Brown Ale in
the USA at the Great American Beer Festival (2000 & 2002)!



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