---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Tasting of Belgian Beers (plus Samichlaus) (John Mellby)
  Boston/Bedford (willa)
  Hazy keg beer (John Greene)
  Brewpubs in Maryland? (Michelle Hodges)
  Wyeast Swelling (GIBSON)
  Buffalo Bound (Ihor W. Slabicky)
  Re: Druids in the Wuids (a.e.mossberg)
  Input requested (CRF)
  Re: Help on best Brewpubs and retail outlets around San Jose (Greg Wageman)
  Overcarbonation (CORONELLRJDS)
  A little on Lites and Marzens (Doug Roberts)
  Extract for conditioning (Doug Roberts)
  On Mild Responses (Doug Roberts)
  Re: Druids in the Wuids (dw)
  cloudy pilsner (florianb)
  M&F "Lite" Malt Extract and My Mutant Mild (Mike Charlton)
  my two cents on mashing (Kenneth R. van Wyk)


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Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 90 07:43:20 CDT
From: jmellby at ngstl1.csc.ti.com (John Mellby)
Subject: Tasting of Belgian Beers (plus Samichlaus)

The Offical Mellby Beer-Tastings, year 3.

This is the Seventeenth such tasting stretching back over two years.

The tastings, in reverse chronological order were of:
Belgians + Samichlaus
Misc. Lagers (including one Non-alcoholic)
Ales, mainly American
Misc.
Oregon and Michigan (ok its weird, but this is where our last trips were)
Available Ales (i.e. purchaseable in Dallas)
Northern Beers (Northern US and Canadian)
Belgian (and other odd European Beers)
California Micro-beers
Lagers, mostly American microbreweries
Ales (an odd lot which turned out to be poor quality)
Ales (Strong, including porters, stout)
Mixed Lagers
Ales
Lagers
Christmas and speciality beers
Mixed (mostly ales)

A few preliminary comments are necessary.  In general we are tasting
beers which are not commercially available in Texas (curse these
state laws!).  We're usually tasting special beers which may not move
off the retailer's shelves as fast as, say, Budweiser.
Hence some beer is not as fresh as it should be.  

The most important thing we have learned is:
        The condition under which the retailer keeps the beer is crucial!
Age, light, and handling all can cause a good beer to rapidly become bad.
Also we have learned to drink the beer rather than keeping it for
extended periods (except with a few bottle-conditioned beer, like
Celebration Ale, Thomas Hardy, etc.)

On with the beer:

Belgium + Samichlaus
- -------   ----------
5/10/90  We got Duvel and Sezoens locally to round out this evening.
We were surprised that these were as good as they were!  I'm going to
buy more Duvel (not a lot more at $7.50 for 4 bottles)!  This wasn't
as successful a blind tasting as before since the first two were lambics,
then four ales/trappist beers, and finally, recogniseable anywhere, Samichlaus!

It was also difficult since we Belgian beers are so very different, plus
we haven't had lambic, other than fruit lambic like Kriek or Frambois, before.
And then Duvel and Samichlaus rather define their own style, so what can you
say other than to rate them high?

If you haven't tasted Belgian beer you are missing a lot!  They have more
types of Beer in Belgium than any other country.  Many of the beers,
especially lambics, have a distinctive yeasty-sour tang to the taste which
can put you off the first time you try them.  The lambics, especially
fruit Krieks or Framboise, are nice ways to introduce people to a different
world of beers.  The moral is to try Belgian beers and be open-minded.

On one of the beers (my notes don't say which) a curious thing happened.
I have always discounted the people who say that the shape of the glass
is important.  I had a brandy-shaped glass, and Roy and Mike had
tall glasses like champagne flutes.  On one beer Roy and Mike claimed
it smelled bad.  We had all poured out of the same pitcher and my
glass smelled very good while their glasses had an unpleasant aroma.

		JRM Roy Tim MikeG JohnL MikeLeonard	Total	Ave
Goundenband	36  39  35  37    30    37		214	35.7
Gueze		42  40  41  43    32    44		242	40.3
Duvel		43  38  40  45    36    42		244	30.7
Westmalle	33  35  32  30    31    27		188	31.3
Sezoens		29  29  30  29    35    26.5		178	29.8
St. Sixtus	44  37  41  43    34    28.5		227	37.9
Samichlaus	44  43  46  46          39.5		218	43.7

Goundenband, Liefmans, Oudenaarde.  
Even without fruit addition like Kriek, this still tasted fruity.  One
said he detected cherry, orange and bananna in the taste.  The aroma
was black cherry and banannas (I can't usually detect bananna smell so I
took their word for it).  A very nice wheat-beer-like hint of cloves.  Slightly
weak on body.  Just a hint of the Belgian 'sour' taste.
We decided we could drink this for a long time.

Gueze, Lindemand, Vlezenbeek
This had a much fresher aroma, and a lighter and better appearance.
The taste had a little alcohol, stronger fruit than the Goundenband, and
a fruity aftertaste which was a little fizzy.  This aftertaste was good like
a champagne fiz rather than the artifically-carbonated fiz of so many beers.
Just a little of the Belgian sour-yeasty taste (which is appropriate in
Belgians and after you get used to it, very pleasant).

Duvel, Moorgat Brewery, Breendonk
I had heard good things about this but it was much better than I remembered!
It had a very pretty, dense white head.  Champagne-like bubbles.  A nice hoppy,
wheaty aroma.  The taste was very thick, alcholic, and diacetyl, with
a mouthcoating body.  Mike Leonard again guessed this was Duvel.  The
Styrian Goldings and Saaz hops came out nicely.

Westmalle Trappist Beer (they also make a double and a triple Trappist beer)
Sadly this was old (from a small store in Dayton).  It had large floaters
but did have a creamy head.  A distinct apple in the aroma.  The taste was
still good with alcohol in it on top of sour and oxidized tastes.  It
was cardboardy and had a sharp aftertaste.  This was probably real good fresh.

Sezoens, Brouwerij Martens Bocholt
Again an old bottle.  A colloidal suspension which didn't seem to move when you
shook the glass.  It had an astringent, husky, catty taste, with a sour-catty
aftertaste.

St. Sixtus, Abbey Ale, St. Bernardus Bry Trappistenweg-Watou-Belgium
When he smelled it, Roy's cry was "Great malt!  We're back to beer!"
I just sat and smelled this for minutes!  GREAT AROMA!  This had very
strong alcohol in it.  Brown color with a beautiful head.  This could
almost be a Scotch ale. (Not that abbey ale is a Trappist-style, but is
brewed by someone outside the Trappist Monastery.  Scotch ale is more
a Belgian style than it is from Scotland.)  A long sharp alcohol aftertaste.
One person noted cherry, another a nutty flavor.  A complex ale.  Mike
Leonard rated this low otherwise it would have a higher rating.

Samichlaus 1989 Dark, Hurlimann AG, Zurich
About 14% alcohol - billed as the strongest beer in the world.
Because of the alcohol its difficult to maintain a head.  Caramel and
butterscotch in the aroma.  Hops are in the aroma which is usually
difficult with this much alcohol.  A very nutty, sweet (honey?) complex taste.
Its hard to compare this to anything else.

The Summary of the beers is:
44.4    Optimator, Spaten, Munich, Germany
43.7    Samichlaus 1989 Dark, Hurlimann AG, Zurich
43.4    Fullers ESB (Extra Special Bitter), Griffin Brewery, London
43.3    Kriek, Lindermans, Belgium
43	Red Tail Ale, Mendocino Brewing
43	Golden Gate Malt Liquor, Thousand Oaks Brewing (RIP)
42.6    Red Hook Ale, Red Hook Brewing, Washington
42.5	Addison Double Eagle, Addison, Texas
42.1	Samichlaus 1987 Dark
41.5    Cock O' The Walk Porter, Big Rock Brewing, Calgary, Canada
41.5    Beer de Paris, Brasserie de Paris?
41.4    Bachis Bock, Eugene City Brewing Co., Oregon
41      Old Peculier, Theakston's (Marsham, York)
41	Celebration Ale, Sierra Nevada
41	Pilsner Urquell, Czechoslovokia
40.8	Lighthouse Amber, Santa Cruz Brewing (Front Street Pub)
40.8    Trippel Affligem Abbey Ale
40.75	Capital Garten Brau, Capital Brewing, Middleton, Wisconsin
40.7    Duvel, Moorgat Brewery, Breendonk, Belgium
40.4    Eugene Ale, Eugene City Brewing Co, Oregon
40.3    Corsendonk; Bry de Block, Flanders Brown Ale
40.3    Lindemand Gueze, Lindemand Brewery, Vlezenbeek, Belgium
40.2    St. Stan's Amber Alt, Stanislaus Brewing, Modesto, CA
40      St. David's Porter, Feilinfoel Brewing, Wales
40	Chesbay, Chesapeak Bottling Co, Virginia Beach, Virginia
39.7    Bigfoot Ale, Sierra Nevada barleywine ale
39.7    Vail Ale, Vail Brewing, Colorado
39.5	Blackhook Porter, Red Hook Brewery, Washington
39.5    Mackeson Stout
39      Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
39	Spaten Dopplebock, Munich
39	Crock Ale, St. Sebastian, Belgium
38.8	Lighthouse Lager, Santa Cruz Brewing (Front Street Pub)
38.7	Golden Pacific Bittersweet Ale
38.5    Vondel, Brewery Riva, Dark Flanders Ale
38.5	James Paige Special Reserve, Minneapolis
38.3    Oops Ale, My homebrew (rated also below at 36.3 - better with age?)
38.1    Youngs Special London Ale
38	Anchor Christmas Spiced Ale
38	Summit Extra Pale Ale, Minneapolis
38	Red Hook ESB, Red Hook Brewery, Washington
38	Cable Car Classic Lager, Thousand Oaks Brewery (RIP)
38	Swan Lager, Bond's Brewing, Australia
37.9    St. Sixtus; Abbey Ale, St. Bernardus Bry Trappistenweg-Watou-Belgium
37.6    Ranier Ale
37.6	Rhomberg All Malt, Iowa
37.3	Hercules Ale, Felinfeol, Wales
37.3    Samuel Adams, Boston Brewery
37.3    Saranac 1888, F.X. Matt Brewing
37.3    Brooklyn Pre-Prohibition Lager, Brooklyn Brewery
37.1    Fischer Bitter
37	Young's Winter Warmer, United Kingdom
36.8    Orval, Brasserie d'Orval (Old and it still rated this high!)
36.8    Strong Viking Ale, my homebrew
36.8	Golden Bear, Thousand Oaks Brewery (RIP)
36.75   "
36.7	St. Stan's Amber Ale, Stanislaus Brewing
36.5    Ruddles County Ale; Rutland Brewery
36.5	Winterhook, Red Hook Brewing, Washington
36.4    Pete's Wicked Ale
36.3	Oops Ale (homebrew)
36.2    13th Colony Amber Lager, Savannah Brewing, Georgia
36	Grant's Celtic Ale, Grants Brewing, Yakima WA
36      Frankenmuth Pils, Frankenmuth Brewing, Michigan
36	Cinci Cream, O'Keefe
35.7    Liefmans Goundenband, Liefmans Brewery, Oudenaarde, Belgium
35.5    Lucifer, Blonde Ale, Brewery Riva, Belgium
35.5	Ballard Bitter (Ya Sure You Betcha), Red Hook Brewing, Washington
35.5    Grant's Scottish Ale, Yakima WA (personally I rated this higher)
35.4    Bell's Cherry Stout, Kalamazoo Brewing, Michigan
35.4    Demsey's (Irish Style) Ale, Huber Brewing
35.3    Algonquin Special Reserve Ale, Algonquin Brewing, Ontario
35.2    Berghoff Original (Huber Brewing)
35.1    Maes Pils, Maes Brewing, Belgium
35.1    Aegean Lager
35	Maisel Dampf (Smoke Beer)
34.25	Telluride Lager, Telluride Brewing, Monroe Wisconsin
34.1    (Stale) Samuel Smiths Old Brewery Pale Ale, Tadcaster
34	Great Lakes Cherry Stout, Kalamazoo Brewing
33.8    Down Under Lager, Mildura Brewing, Australia
33.75	Catamont Gold (ale), Catamont Brewing, Vermont
33.7	3 Monts, Flanders Golden Ale, Brasserie de Saint Sylvestre
33.6	Frambose, Liefman's, Belgium
33.6    Weinhard's Ale, Blitz Weinhard
33.4    Bass Pale Ale, Bass-Charrington
33	Great Northern Porter, Summit, Minneapolis
33      Portland Lager, Maine Coast Brewing
33      Franziskus Heller Bock, Spaten, Munich
32.8	St. Stan's Alt, Stanislaus Brewing, Modesto
32.5    Mitchell's Centenary Ale; Mitchell's of Lancaster
32.4    Ballard Bitter
32.3    Penn Pils, Allegheny Brewing
32.1	Not-so-pale-ale, John Mellby Homebrew
32.0    one of my homebrew bitter
31.8    Thomas Coopers Real Ale, Thomas Cooper, Australia
31.7    Santa Barbara Extra Pale Lager, (brewed by Kessler in Montana)
31.3    Westmalle Trappist Beer, Westmalle Belgium
31.2    Calgary Amber Lager, O'Keefe
31	Frankenmuth Olde German Dark, Michigan
31      Eugene Weizen, Eugene City Brewing Co., Oregon
30.4    Pete's Pacific Dry, Pete's Brewing (contract brewed at Schells)
30.3	EKU Kulminator 28 Urtyp Hell, Erst Kulmbacher Actionbrauerei
30.25   MacAndrews Scotch Ale, Caledonia Brewing (probably a Old Bottle!)
30.1    Bulldog Lager, Old Canada Brewing (no city given & I don't blame them)
30	(Old?) Pacific Porter, Santa Cruz Brewing (Front Street Pub)
30      OLD Bottle! Royal Oak, Eldridge Pope Brewing, Dorset
30	Bulldog Lager, Old Canada Brewing
29.9    Pale Ale, Big Rock Brewing, Calgary
29.8    Sezoens, Brouwerij Martens Bocholt, Belgium
29.8    Growling' Gater Lager (The Beer with a Bite)
29.7    Big Rock Bitter, Big Rock Brewing, Calgary (Old!)
29.7    Ballantine XXX Ale, Ballantine Brewing (canned)
29.4    Bell's Best Brown Ale, Kalamazoo Brewing, Michigan
29.3    Harley Davidson Heavy Beer, Huber Brewing (canned)
27.6    Oregon State Fair Golden Ale, Eugene City Brewing, Oregon
27.1    St. Stan's Amber Alt
27	Lorelei, Kessler Brewing (2nd bad tasting, but a separate good report)
26.8    Ruddles Bitter Ale; Rutland Brewery
26.5	Little Kings Cream Ale, Schoenling
26.3    Bronco Beer
26*	Tusker Premium Lager, Kenya (skunked bottle, should be tried again)
25.5	Castemain XXXX, Bond Brewing, Australia
23.8    Cold Spring Export, Cold Spring, MN
22.5    Fischer Amber, Brasserie d'Alsace
22.0    Boulder Extra Pale Ale
21.6    Thomas-Brau, Paulaner, Non-alcoholic beer
20.3    OLD Bottle! McNally's Extra Ale, Big Rock Brewing
20.0    OLD Bottle! Lorelei
18.8    Neptune's Famous Green Rooster, Neptun Bryggerietus, Denmark
13.7    Ivanhoe Ale, Saxon Brewing, Chico, CA

Surviving the American Dream
John R. Mellby                       Texas Instruments
jmellby%ngstl1.ti.com                P.O.Box 660246, MS 3645
                                     Dallas Texas, 75266
(214)517-5370                       (214)343-7585
****************************************************************
* "Virtually no one's allowed to vote...women, servants,       *
* chimpanzees (gestures to Baldrick)...even lords."            *
*                                                              *
* "That's not true, Lord Nelson's got a vote."                 *
*                                                              *
* "He's got a boat, Baldrick."                                 *
*                 -- BlackAdder                                *
****************************************************************

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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 08:05:39 PDT
From: willa at hpvclwa.hp.com
Subject: Boston/Bedford
Full-Name: ----- Will Allen -----

Howdy All:

I'll be in the Boston area (Bedford to be precise) early next month.  Of
course, I'm looking for some local brews to rival those available here
in the Portland, OR area.  Any suggestions?

Thanks to those that reply.  E-mail is fine.


. . .Will

Will Allen
HP Vancouver Division
willa at hpvcfs1.hp.com  or  ...!hplabs!hpvcfs1!willa

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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 08:18:04 PDT
From: greene at venice.sedd.trw.com (John Greene)
Subject: Hazy keg beer

In response to Florian's request on keg beer being hazier than usual.  I have
found that the beer remains hazy for a longer period of type but will eventually
clear up.  Back when I was bottling, I would see the hazy clear in 3-4 weeks.
With kegs it takes at least 6 weeks to completely clear, sometimes even longer.
My last batch of IPA was hazy for over 7 weeks after I put it in the fridge
but during the 8th week it turned crystal clear.  I had enough extra at 
kegging time to fill two grolsch bottles.  The bottles cleared in three weeks.
I usually tap a keg at 4 weeks due to impatience and used to be disappointed
with the haze but over the next few weeks it slowly becomes clear.  By the time
I finish the keg, it's perfect!  

John E. Greene    "People are just like frankfurters....You have to decide
                   if you're going to be a hot dog or just another wiener" DLR
TRW Systems Engineering and Development Division
INTERNET: greene at venice.sedd.TRW.COM  USENET: ..trwrb!venice!greene

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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 08:32:27 PDT
From: hodges at Tops.Sun.COM (Michelle Hodges)
Subject: Brewpubs in Maryland?


I'll be visiting Maryland in about six weeks and was hoping someone could
recommend some brewpubs in the area.  I'll be staying in the Baltimore/Wash, DC
area and travelling to Ocean City for a couple days.  I'm anxious to see how
they brew on the East Coast...

Michelle

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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 08:33 MST
From: GIBSON at rvax.ccit.arizona.edu
Subject: Wyeast Swelling

   Well, I've never had a Wyeast Packet go boom on me before, although I've
certainly tempted them often enough.  On several occaisions I've put them
back into the fridge when they got ready before I did (or I got lazy).  More
recently I've gone to making starter solutions by adding the Wyeast packet
to 1 cup of light dry malt extract boiled (and cooled) in 3 cups or so of
water.  A wine bottle or empty Newcastle Nut-Brown Ale bottle (or the like)
with a fermentation lock worked fine.  I've also found that the temperature
at which you store the Wyeast packet after breaking the inner pouch does
make a BIG difference in the swelling rate. 
   Speaking of starter solutions, I'm a devotee now.  I like the idea of
putting in more of the "good guys" to beat the few inevitable "bad guys" to
my wort. I've also had excellent results when I made a yeast starter from
a particularly fine previous batch. Make up the starter as usual and pour in
that last bit of beer and yeast sediment that you normally throw out. (And
most importantly, drink a toast to the rejuvenating yeasties.) 
				Ken Cornett

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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 11:53:44 EDT
From: iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Ihor W. Slabicky)
Subject: Buffalo Bound


I will be visiting the fair City of Buffalo, New York and 
it's environs in a few weeks.  Anyone have any suggestions 
of what to see/eat/drink there in the way of brewed and/or
carbonated beverages:  brewpubs, good stores at which to
buy beer, interesting sodas to try, breweries to tour,
places to eat, visits to Canada, etc...

I know where the Beer and Retail is in Fort Erie, Ontario.
I know where Frank's Anchor Bar is.  I've been to Niagara
Falls (Canadian side).  

Where is that market place with all the good sausage and
smoked keilbasa?  

Oh, I'll be there on a Friday...

Thanks, Ihor

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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 11:01:22 MDT
From: hplms2!mage!lou

In HBD #317 Chuck Coronella writes:

>So my question is this:  Do you substitute dry extract for corn sugar, one 
>for one on a volume basis, or what?  Maybe we screwed something else up?

According to Colonel John, use twice as much dry extract as you would corn
sugar.  I've done this with reasonable results although slightly more than 2:1
might be better.

- ------------------------------

and Russ Gelinas writes:

> ...
>On a different subject, I have a brew that never cleared (a "Pilsner" ale made
>with M&F extract, M&F yeast, crystal, and corn sugar...nothing unusual). The
>only difference between it and my other brews (all clear) was that I primed
>this whole batch with a (boiled) sugar solution, as opposed to putting dry
>sugar in each bottle. Of course, it could be an infection of some sort, (it
>takes just fine), but I was wondering if the liquid sugar could have something
>to do with the haze (that should be it "tastes" just fine...).  Anyway I'm
>not worried about it, and it's prompted me to improve my (brewing) cleanliness
>just in case....

I like to boil almost everything that goes into my beer (I obviously haven't
tried dry hopping), this includes the sugar (again obviously, not yeast).  Some
of my beers are hazy and some aren't so it seems that the method of adding
sugar doesn't affect haze.  BTW, I have no desire to enter competitions so I
don't care if my beer is hazy - I only care about the taste.

Louis Clark
reply to: mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 17:15:43 GMT
From: aem at mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU (a.e.mossberg)
Subject: Re: Druids in the Wuids

In digest <1990May15.142814.24447 at mthvax.cs.miami.edu> Martin A. Lodahl <hplabs!pbmoss!mal> writes:

>I'm beginning to think this is my PERMANENT .sig file!  I've been
>told that it's by Pete Seeger, to be sung to the tune of "Ol' Time
>Religion".  [...]

It is indeed one of the verses to "Old Time Religion", and is on
the Pete Seeger/Arlo Guthrie album "Precious Friends".

aem


- -- 
a.e.mossberg / aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu / aem at umiami.BITNET / Pahayokee Bioregion
[God] is inordinately fond of beetles.			- J.B.S. Haldane


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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 15:14 EST
From: CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
Subject: Input requested

Hi, all!

I'm getting increasingly interested in purchasing the book, "Brewing Beer Like 
Those You Buy."  However, I'd like some more info before doing so.

Let me explain:  due mostly to spatial, as well as other, constraints, I am an
all-extract brewer.  Furthermore, our local brew supply store doesn't have a
really wide variety of supplies.  (I'm well-aware that I can get anything by
mail-order, but you need to order in quantity for that to be cost-efficient, 
and I ain't got the space for lots of supplies.)

This being the case, I'd really appreciate input from those who already own 
this book.  Should I buy it?  Will I be able to get anything out of it?

Reply to the address below.

Thanks in advance.


                         Yours in Carbonation,

                                      Cher 


"Nothing is foolproof; fools are *so* ingenious!"
=============================================================================

	Cheryl Feinstein              INTERNET:  CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
	Univ. of Fla.                 BITNET:  CRF at UFPINE
	Gainesville, FL

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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 13:04:23 PDT
From: greg at cemax.com (Greg Wageman)
Subject: Re: Help on best Brewpubs and retail outlets around San Jose


>Since I want to sample and bring back good beer
>could anyone comment on any of the following brewpubs?  Which is best, and
>where to find local bottled beer (we're going to specially pad a suitcase
>just for beer).

As to finding bottled beer from the local breweries, the Safeway
supermarkets in this area carry a pretty good assortment.  You should
be able to find products from Dead Cat brewery, Red Tail Ale (brewed,
appropriately, in Hopland Ca. by the Mendocino Brewing Co., and a
personal favorite), Lighthouse beers and ales (brewed in Santa Cruz),
for starters.

Liquor Barn *used* to be a good source, but since filing for bankruptcy,
their assortment has gone yuppie and their prices skyward.

Be glad to comment on the brewpubs I've visited.  Opinions are mine, and 
you're sure to get others...

>BP - Brewpub; P - Pub/restaurant; R - retail; ? - other
>San Jose:
>  BP - Winchester Brewing

Stay away.  Bad food, tasteless beer.  Don't waste your time.

>Santa Cruz
>  BP - Front Street Pub

Recommended.  Good food, good beer.  Great way to end a day at the beach!

>NW from San Jose
>Mountain View
>  BP - Tied House

Recommended.  Good food.  Beer varies; the Amber's pretty good.

>Palo Alto
>  BP - Gordon Biersch

Highly recommended.  Actually, this is really a Pub/restaurant.  The
food is unusual, of gormet quality, and is fantastic and so is the
beer.  Best I've been to in the area.

>N from San Jose
>Fremont
>  BP - Brewpub on the Green

"The only brewpub in California on a golfcourse."

Decent beer, and a small pub-style food menu (fish-and-chips, burgers,
cheese steak, etc.).  Though limited, the food is excellent.  Their
standard beers are good; a few of their special-occasion brews have
"achieved greatness".

Good luck, and enjoy!

	Greg Wageman (greg%cemax at sj.ate.slb.com)
	Cemax, Inc.
	Santa Clara CA



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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 14:24 MST
From: CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU
Subject: Overcarbonation

In response to Keith Winter's complaint that his bottles were over-
carbonated:

I've had this problem twice, although I've been brewing for a relatively 
short period of time [just bottled the tenth batch the other day.]  My 
solution, while not very pretty, is effective.

One bottle at a time, I gently lift the cap off the bottle, until I hear 
the characteristic hiss [PHSSSIISSSS?].  Then, as the the foam rises up the 
neck of the bottle, I quickly recap the bottle.  The trick is to get the 
cap sealed at the right moment.  If the overcarbonation is very excessive, 
you'd want to let more pressure out than otherwise, but before the foam 
spews out of the bottle.  Depending on what kind of capper you have, this 
may be tricky.  My capper is a wrench-like tool that has to be guided 
carefully onto the cap, and so requires a gentle touch.  But I can still 
get 45 bottles depressurized in about 20 - 30 minutes.

There is no real danger of infection, since the pressure inside the bottle 
is so much greater than ambient pressure, and besides, the beer should 
already be virtually finished fermenting.  [Don't worry, ... ;-)]

			Happy Fermentations,
			Chuck Coronella
			CORONELLRJDS at CHEMICAL.UTAH.EDU

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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 14:49:38 MDT
From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts)
Subject: A little on Lites and Marzens


> For those who keg:
> 
> Have you found that haze is greater in kegged beer than in bottles?  I seem to
> find this the case.
> 
I have found just the opposite. My kegged beer seems to clarify a little faster
than the bottled stuff.

- --Doug

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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 14:54:50 MDT
From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts)
Subject: Extract for conditioning


> I have a question regarding the use of malt extract for conditioning (
> instead of the standard corn sugar.)  I've seen in Zymurgy that many of the 
> award winning recipes seem to be conditioned with either wort or extract 
> itself, so my brewing partner and I decided to give it a shot in our last 
> batch, which was an Indian Pale Ale, so we used 3/4 cup dry amber extract 
> for conditioning.  The beer itself tastes fine [no metalic flavor at all, 
> despite the use of an Aluminium pot ;-)], but it's totally flat.  Now I 
> know that British ales are traditionally somewhat less carbonated than 
> many other beers, but I was hoping for some carbonation!
> 
> So my question is this:  Do you substitute dry extract for corn sugar, one 
> for one on a volume basis, or what?  Maybe we screwed something else up?

I've used between 1/2 and 3/4 cup of either dry malt extract or syrup
(light, unhopped) for the last 5 years, now., and I've always gotten
the desired level of carbonation [low to medium, as suites the beer
recipe].

If yours was flat, I'd suspect that something killed the yeast --
temperature, or perhaps residual sterilant in your bottles.

- --Doug
================================================================
Douglas Roberts                |
Los Alamos National Laboratory |I can resist anything
Box 1663, MS F-609             |  except temptation.
Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545   |  ...
(505)667-4569                  |Oscar Wilde
dzzr at lanl.gov                  |
================================================================

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Date: Tue, 15 May 90 15:00:07 MDT
From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts)
Subject: On Mild Responses

> Most refreshing. Just like Bud ... 8-)  
> Go ahead, express your opinion.

Ok. :-{

:-}

- --Doug

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Date: 15 May 90 17:27:50 EDT (Tuesday)
From: dw <wegeng at arisia.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: Druids in the Wuids

The song that mentions drinking strange fermented fluids can be found in a
song book called "Rise Up Singing," published by Sing Out! magazine.
Rather than bore the entire mailing list with the lyrics, please send me
e-mail if you would like a copy.

/Don
wegeng at arisia.xerox.com
hplabs!arisia!wegeng

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Date: 15 May 90 10:42:58 PDT (Tue)
From: florianb%tekred.cna.tek.com at RELAY.CS.NET
Subject: cloudy pilsner

In #417, Russ Gelinas sez:

>On a different subject, I have a brew that never cleared (a "Pilsner" ale made
>with M&F extract, M&F yeast, crystal, and corn sugar...nothing unusual). The
>only difference between it and my other brews (all clear) was that I primed
>this whole batch with a (boiled) sugar solution, as opposed to putting dry

I have had exactly the same thing happen to me when I used crystal malt in
pilsner lager.  Noting all the other beers that have never cleared, and those
which have had a significant chill haze, I have begun to suspect that crystal
malt is a significant factor in chill haze.  So this could be the critter.

In as much as pilsner lager is supposed to be dry, it makes little sense to
add crystal malt to the recipe.  I did it once as a test, and wouldn't do it
again.  All my other pilsners have come out "crystal" clear, and they were
similar recipes, but without crystal malt.

Do you use a cooler to ferment and lager the pilsner at below 48 degrees?
I find the best success when fermenting and lagering at 40 degrees in a 
fridge.  But I usually need a period during final fermentation when I increase
the temperature to 50 degrees or so to "ferment out."  After bottling, I
again drop the temperature to 40 degrees.

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Date: 15 May 90 17:49 -0500
From: Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Subject: M&F "Lite" Malt Extract and My Mutant Mild

Hi all.  A friend of mine wanted to make a quick batch of beer and decided
to use a beer kit (We normally brew together and do our own mash, but I
was busy and he wanted some beer right away...).  Since both of us are
convinced of the necesity of all-malt beer, he decided to add malt extract
instead of sugar to the kit.  However, he wanted to preserve the character
of the kit beer.  So, for an experiment he used the M&F Lite Malt Extract
which he hopes will increase the alcohol content of the beer, but keep
the body and and colour to the level that it is intended to be at.  Most
of all there shouldn't be any "cider" flavours.  Has anybody tried this
as a substitute for sugar?  I'll post the results of this experiment when
the beer is ready to drink.

On another note, somebody was mentioning that they were collecting recipes
for commercial look-a-likes.  It was completely unintentional, but I have
stumbled upon a very easy recipe for something that tastes like Newcastle
Brown Ale.  Just take a John Bull Bitter kit, add two cans of Canadiana
(I think) pale unhopped malt extract and 2 oz. of Fuggles hops.  The result
is a beer that tastes remarkably like Newcastle Brown except that it has
a bit too much body and a bit too much hops (actually, they should be tweaked
a bit; the flavour isn't quite right.  However, I don't have the experience
with hops to suggest what should be done.)  Sorry for the vague measurements,
but this was basically a totally random batch of beer that I made when I
was trying to show someone else how easy beer-making can be.

                          Mike

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Date: 15 May 90 19:33:38 EDT (Tue)
From: hplabs!gatech!oldale.pgh.pa.us!ken (Kenneth R. van Wyk)
Subject: my two cents on mashing


For what it's worth, I thought that I'd toss in my feelings on mashing
 - perhaps it'll be useful to those who might be considering trying a
mash but don't think that they have the {equipment|experience|
inclination|whatever}.

Though I still consider myself a novice (just started brewing in
December, but I've been doing a lot of experimenting), I've been
really drawn to the idea of mashing.  When first learning about the
logistical details and all, I thought that I wouldn't be able to do it
without considerable expense.  Then, I gradually talked myself into
trying things, after thinking out each step of the progress.

First, I decided that I'd start with doing a small mash in addition to
2 cans (actually, bags) of extract.  I made an India Pale Ale (I'll
include the recipe for those who can stomache this long message :-)
and mashed an additional 2 lbs of pale malt.  Then, I tried a half
mash.  The half mash is still fermenting, so I can't comment on that,
but the IPA was, IMHO, truly wonderful.  Certainly the best that I've
made so far.

I use a 5 gallon stainles steel stockpot that I got for $32.95 at a
local Service Merchandise (discount warehouse store) for boiling and I
mash in a 2.5 gallon stockpot that cost me about $15 a few years ago.
For sparging, I use the "tea bag" method with a sparging bag (so the
local supplier calls it - it's actually a filter bag with a coarser
bottom than side) and sparge in 2 baths of 170F water.  Granted, the
extraction efficiency with this type of sparge can't be as good as
doing a false-bottom, etc., sparge, but I have no complaints thus far.

For the boil, I use about 3.5-4 gallons in the stockpot.  Of course,
you have to be extra careful for a boilover with this much wort in a 5
gallon pot, but the gas stove helps in turning things off Real Fast if
need be.

Finally, I made an immersion worth chiller using 10 ft. of copper
tubing, a compression fitting, and a couple other odds and ends - all
bought at the local Hechinger (mainstream (yuppy) house supply store).
The entire chiller cost me about $13 and 10 minutes to make.  If
there's enough interest, I'll post the details of what I did.  

I put the stockpot in my basement utility sink with the wort chiller
inside, and the sink filled up to about the 2/3 mark on the stockpot.
Then, I crank up the chiller, carefully allowing some water to drain
from the sink as it gets near the top of the stockpot.  Between the
chiller and the cold water on the outside of the stockpot, I can cool
4 gallons of boiling wort in about 15-20 minutes easily.  (I add some
previously boiled and cooled water to the carboy when I pitch the
yeastie boys to bring the level up to about 5 gallons.)

Sorry to get so long winded.  I think that my approach works pretty
well - the results have been real tasty.  BTW, I found that mashing 5
lbs of malt in my last beer was tremendously *easier* than mashing 2
lbs in my first attempt, because maintaining a constant temperature
was (not surprisingly) much easier.

For those who have stuck it out so far, here's the recipe for the IPA
that I made (which is modified from Papazian's IPA):

Pale After Math Ale (I brewed this after an exam...):

6.6 lbs American Classic light extract
1   lb  Crystal malt (didn't have the lovibond - and I added this at
        sparging time)
2   lbs British Pale Malt (mashed via step procedure up to 155F)
3   oz  Fuggles leaf hops (1  at  50 minutes, 1  at  30 minutes, 1  at  20 minutes)
1   oz  Cascade leaf hops (sprinkled in from 10-0 minutes)
2   tsp gypsum (in mash water, to lower ph)
1/2 tsp Irish moss (added at 10 minutes)
1   pkg M.eV. high temperature British ale yeast

Notes:
 - I used a 1 Qt. starter culture started 2 days before brewing.  
 - For bottling, I used 1/2 cup corn sugar prepared in a coffee maker,
  with about 1/2 oz. Cascade leaves in the filter and the corn sugar in
  the pot.  Makes a great semi-dry hopping.  The aroma on the IPA was,
  IMHO, perfect!
 - O.G. was 1.054.
 - F.G. was 1.018.

Again, sorry for being so long winded here.  Hope someone gets some
use out of all these words...

Cheers,

Ken van Wyk
ken at oldale.pgh.pa.us

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #418, 05/16/90
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