---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Promash and Weyermann ("Braam Greyling")
  Red Stripe recipe? ("Brian Morgan")
  RTDs ("A. J. delange")
  RE: Newbie needs help (Brian Trotter)
  [Competition Announcement] - 7th Annual CARBOY Shamrock Open ("Mike Dixon")
  Re: Newbie needs help (Larry Bristol)
  Re: Guinness Bottles (Todd Goodman)
  liquid quick disconnects (Marc Sedam)
  Where did my bitterness go? (Brian Lundeen)
  two-probe taps (Marc Sedam)
  RE WLP005 (David Passaretti)
  Grist/Water raito & False bottoms (Bill Tobler)
  RE: RTD calibration/correction ("Reddy, Pat")
  electric vs. lp (PVanslyke)
  RIMs Design ("Vernon, Mark")
  The Bill Wible problem demands immediate action (Alan Meeker)
  1st Annual Niagara Big Beer Competition ("Todd M. Snyder")
  Microwave HERMS ("Steve Alexander")
  Inventing brewpubs ("Blanchard, Steven B")
  agar plates (Randy Ricchi)
  Leaking spigots ("Chris Eidson")
  Widget (Pat Babcock)
  Re: Inventing brewpubs (Pat Babcock)
  Lager ("Gilbert Milone")
  Party Pig and staling (BrianS)
  RE: passivation ("Mike Sharp")
  Pressure (George & Lola)
  American Homebewers Association BoA elections (Jeff Renner)
  Lagering in Corny Kegs ("Berggren, Stefan")
  Cleaning ad filtering ("Eyre")
  RE: OLD Ale (Inland-Gaylord)" <BSmith51 at ICCNET.COM>
  RE: RTD calibration/correction ("Mike Sharp")
  mashing question from a lurker ("redbeard47.ny")
  samichlaus in columbus? (mike spinelli)


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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:03:16 +0200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com>
Subject: Promash and Weyermann

Hi all,

I finally took the plunge and bought Promash. 
I remember a while ago, a Promash database containing the 
specifications of Weyermann malts floated around. 

Can somebody mail that to me PLEASE ? 

Pls mail it directly, the HBD don't do attachments.  :-)

Regards

Braam Greyling 





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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:39:54 -0500
From: "Brian Morgan" <brian-morgan at cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Red Stripe recipe?

Hi -
   I have never tried making a lager before - and would like to try making
something like a Red Stripe Lager...  But can't find a recipe.  Do any of
you experts have a recipe for a Red Stripe clone?  Preferably all grain?
   Thanks -
     Brian in Cincinnati




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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:30:53 +0000
From: "A. J. delange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: RTDs

RTDs are not linear devices. The non-linearity varies and your 
controller should allow you to set the proper coefficient for the device 
you have. The RTD manufacturer should specify the correct value to use.

A.J.



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 04:55:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Trotter <sandinmysuds at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Newbie needs help

AM writes:

"Regarding spigots, I have purchased two of these so
far, not from
williams brewing though, but they have a picture:
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/AB1605000Store/images/E39.JPG
they both leak, in the time I took me to bottle fill 5
gallons worth of
beer I lost probably 2 pints to leakage. Is this
typical?  Can anyone
recommend a spigot to fits a 1" diameter hole that
won't leak?"


I have solved the spigot problem you pose.  The spigot
is a flawed design to begin with (IMO) since the
bucket surface is curved and the mating surface of the
spigot is flat.  The trick is to put a set of
channel-lock (large adjustable) pliers on the inside
nut and REALLY torque that puppy down.  You'd be
surprised how much "oomph" it will take.  Hand-tight
just won't seal it properly.  Leak check it with water
after you torque it, continue to tighten it down until
it won't leak and sanitize the inside.

Also, those rubber gaskets tend to dry-rot after 6
months or so and need to be replaced.  That may be a
function of the climate here in Hawaii, but they only
cost 50 cents, so I keep several on-hand.

Hope this helps.

Aloha,
Brian



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:03:39 -0500
From: "Mike Dixon" <mpdixon at ipass.net>
Subject: [Competition Announcement] - 7th Annual CARBOY Shamrock Open

The 7th Annual CARBOY Shamrock Open will be held March 15 in Raleigh, NC.

Entry fees will be $6 for the first entry and $5 for each additional entry.
Online entries are preferred.  Final day for registration is March 9, and
mail in entries must be received by March 7. No late entries will be
accepted.

The website has all the gory details www.hbd.org/carboy/shamrock.htm
including contact information for the Organizer and Judge Director. While
there please check out the sponsors for this event.

We welcome anyone to enter, or to assist as a judge or steward.
We do not descriminate against people with RIMS, HERMS, or users of dry
yeast.  So long as you get your entry in on time, the bottle is appropriate,
the cap has no markings, the label is secured with a rubber band, and you
sent in a check for the appropriate amount of entries...the more the
merrier.

This is the second qualifying event for Carolinas Brewer of the Year, and
the competition is registered with both the AHA and the BJCP.

Cheers,
Mike Dixon
Wake Forest, NC





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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:23:33 -0600
From: Larry Bristol <larry at doubleluck.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help

> Wow, I am new to the HDB and judging by the archives this looks like an
> incredible resource, I look forward to any feedback.

It is.  You will get plenty of feedback.  But don't forget to search those 
archives for answers to your questions without having to ask!

> I will be brewing my third beer ever in a week or so but I have a
> question about trub and hops, especially pellets.  It seems to be an
> incredible pain in the butt trying to strain out the hop particles and
> trub from the wert boil when transferring to primary fermenter -- how
> important is it to remove this crap from the wert before the addition
> of yeast?  I'm thinking about just fermenting with the dissolved hop
> pellets and not worrying about it.

This is not a good idea.  During the boil of the wort (it is pronounced 
"wert", BTW, but not spelled that way), various compounds drop out of 
solution.  This stuff is known as hot break.  When the wort is cooled, 
other stuff drops out, known as cold break.  Removing this material  
before fermentation is important to the finished flavor of the beer as 
well as its shelf life.

If you are trying to STRAIN this stuff out, I can imagine what a PITA it 
must be!  There are various other techniques to simplify this task.  One 
of the simplest is to whirlpool the wort after it has been cooled.  This 
is nothing more than stirring it vigoroursly in one direction so that it 
makes a whirlpool.  When you stop, the solid materials will tend to 
congregate in the center of the pot.  Siphon the wort from the edge, 
trying not to disturb the gunk in the middle.

If you actually could remove the break separately, leaving the spent hops 
would not be nearly as important.  (After all, hops are sometimes added 
to beer in the fermenter.)  Spent hops and any break material that gets 
through will settle out rapidly, and you can easily get rid of them in a 
couple of days (you DO rack the beer into a secondary fermenter, right?).  
Depending on a couple of factors (such as how long you boiled them), 
leaving spent hops in the wort during fermentation will have some impact 
on the hop characteristics of the finished beer - it might be good, bad, 
or indifferent.

> 1)screw top beer bottles: can these be capped just like bottles that
> require a bottle opener to remove the cap? Does the cap seal properly
> or are screw  top bottle useless?

Many years ago, I was told that screw top bottle are to be avoided 
completely.  I vaguely recall that it had more to do with a lack of 
strength in the bottles themselves rather than the cap seal.  Perhaps the 
collective has newer wisdom.

> 2)Bottles that lack a sufficient lip that a hand capper can grasp, do
> some breweries use this type of bottle on purpose just to drive people
> crazy? (because you never realize you can't cap them until they are
> already filled with your freshly primed beer)  Bench cappers don't have
> trouble with these, I realize, but I only have the "emily capper".

I think your last sentence answers your own question!  :-)

- -- 
Larry Bristol
The Double Luck
Bellville, TX
http://www.doubleluck.com



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:35:42 -0500
From: Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net>
Subject: Re: Guinness Bottles

* In HBD #4179, "robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com"
        <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com> wrote:
> 
> The widget contains CO2 that is released when you open a Guiness bottle, so 
> there's no way to gain any type of benefit from a used widget. 
> 
> Here's an indepth article URL that talks about Guiness and their widgets:
> 
> http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,49020,00.html
> 
> Robert

While I've read the same article (and others) I don't come to the same
conclusion.

It seems to me that counter-pressure filling the bottle will force
whatever gas you're using and beer into the widget.

Once opened, the gas seeking equilibrium will shoot through the tiny
hole causing a stream of beer/gas into the beer in the bottle and
resulting in a mini-pocket-beer-engine effect.

So I do believe a used widget is useful and that it's a common
misconception that the widget it somehow filled with gas aside from what
happens during presurized bottling.

Of course trying to sanitize a used widget would be a nightmare.

This calls for a 'speriment though...

Regards,

Todd Goodman
Still assembling the relocated brewery in Westford, MA
[630.3, 84] Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:39:48 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: liquid quick disconnects

I'm finally getting ready to create my brewery stand.  While I would 
love to have it hard-piped, I'm thinking that using some reinforced 
plastic tubing is the answer.  

I tried to find liquid quick disconnects at Lowe's but only found them 
for 5/8" hose.  Does anyone know a source of these for the more 
traditional 1/2" brewery-sized applications?  I'm looking for 4-5 sets.

Cheers!

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:19:35 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: Where did my bitterness go?

Sorry to be misleading, my personality isn't improving, I'm referring to the
bitterness of my latest batch, an IPA. Between the FWH Cascade and
Hersbrucker, and the 60 minute addition of EK Goldings, I got a ProMash
estimate of 47 IBU. Now, I know that my local vendor of Cascade doesn't put
accurate AA measurements on his hops, but that might only account for a 5
IBU drop. In any case, a taste of the clear wort that went into the
fermenter showed plenty of underlying bitterness (plenty for my tastes,
anyway) after the sweetness of the 1.060 wort had passed.

At racking to secondary this weekend, the gravity was down to 1.020 and I
expected the bitterness to be even more noticeable. Instead, I got something
closer to Alexander Keith's. What happened?

Only two things went into the wort after I had tasted it. The yeast, Wyeast
Northwest Ale, and my standard addition of lysozyme to guard against
lactobacillus, so I figure one of them has to be the culprit.

One would not expect a yeast named after a region of the country where the
standard beer glass includes a hopback to drastically reduce the hoppiness
of a beer, would one?

So I'm looking at the lysozyme as the more likely culprit. In doing some
reading recently, it has been mentioned that lysozyme binds with phenolics
in red wine, acting much like a light egg white fining, which to me is not a
bad thing, taking a bit of the edge off. The question is, are hop bittering
compounds phenolics? Did I inadvertently "pre-fine" my beer into the insipid
state it is currently in?

Cheers
Brian



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:42:58 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: two-probe taps

I was given a two-probe keg by someone in my local HB club.  I would 
like to take the tap valve (the one in the keg, not what you attach to 
it) out of the keg to [a] release pressure, and [b] convert the keg to 
other uses.  Can someone give me some tips on how to take this out? 
 Vice grips aren't working.

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:45:33 -0800 (PST)
From: David Passaretti <dpassaretti at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE WLP005

I have used this yeast many times in the past with
similar findings.  It tends to ferment slowly and
leaves a relatively high FG.  This can be helped by
rousing the yeast several times a day after the first
few days. I think perhaps the yeast is very flocculent
and some drops prior to completing the fermentation.
Just my experience, no science or inside knowledge.
David Passaretti




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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:11:37 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Grist/Water raito & False bottoms

I have a question on the grist/water ratio and how I brew.  From just doing
a lot of reading and talking to people, a decent grist/water ratio for most
brewing is 1.3 qts/lb, and that is what I use.  Well, kinda.  I have a HERMS
with a false bottom in the mash tun, and there is a gallon's worth of space
under the f/b.  My system circulates the mash liquid during the whole mash.
What I've been doing is (Using Promash) figuring the amount of water needed
for the mash, then adding one gallon.  This usually brings up the ratio to
about 1.5  My question, is this really a 1.3 or a 1.5 grist/water ratio.

Up until a few weeks ago, I was thinking that only the liquid in contact
with the mash counts.  When I posted a question about setting the grain bed
early in the mash, Steve A. gave a great response and explained that the
grist bed is not the hub of enzyme activity in the mash.  The enzyme's and
starches are extracted early on in the mash and most action happens in the
1st wort, not the grist bed.  Do you count the space under the false bottom?
I'm starting to rethink this and am thinking my true ratio is the higher
number of 1.5, and I should quit adding the extra water.  I get pretty good
efficiency, usually between 78 and 80%.  But, my beers do seem to be lacking
in body a little, but it's hard to tell as I make a lot of lite largers.

Thanks in advance.  I have to go fill some bottles for the Bluebonnet
Brew-off in Dallas.  I'm a little behind.

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:21:36 -0600
From: "Reddy, Pat" <Pat.Reddy at mavtech.cc>
Subject: RE: RTD calibration/correction

David Passaretti wrote:

> I thought that RTD probes
were self-calibrating and would not require correction
like a TC.

David,
Are you by any chance using an RTD probe with only 2 leads?
The third lead in a 3-wire RTD probe provides feedback to compensate for the
change in resistance due to temperature. Look here for a more information:
http://www.microchip.com/download/appnote/power/00687a.pdf

Pat Reddy
Controls Engineer
MAVERICK Technologies
pat.reddy at mavtech.cc

Pat Reddy
MAVERICK Technologies
(618)281-9100 x134
pat.reddy at mavtech.cc
 



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:51:50 EST
From: PVanslyke at aol.com
Subject: electric vs. lp

Good morning,
    Has anyone collected energy usage and cost efficiency comparing electric 
brewing with propane? Including cost of construction?

Paul ( still in a brewing hiatus in Deposit, NY )


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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:56:08 -0600
From: "Vernon, Mark" <mark at PleasantStreet.com>
Subject: RIMs Design

In HBD #4179 Dion Hollenbeck recommends to put the temp probe on you RIMs on
the output side of the heating element, this way you avoid overheating your
wort. I have been using my RIMs for several years and have my probe on the
output of the Kettle. I have had problems my attenuation over my last 1/2
dozen batches. Question for the RIMs brewers here, what is the location of
your temp probe? I am in the process of designing/building a new stand and
want to know if I need to move the temp probe? 

Mark Vernon - West of Rennerian prime
I'ts friking freezing in here!!! -- Dr. Evil


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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:51:35 -0500
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: The Bill Wible problem demands immediate action

Bill posts outrageous statements then claims to have experienced some sort
of epiphany and now says that he sees he was in the wrong. He further tries
to deflect criticism and scrutiny by pledging to contribute to the HBD.
Well, I for one am not falling for it. Don't let him fool you, we've seen
this type of behavior too often. The pattern here is unmistakable and
unacceptable to the greater homebrewing community. Obviously Bill cannot be
trusted and the HBD should immediately send in inspectors to check for
equipment of mass brewing (EMB) and stockpiles of liquid yeast that reliable
intelligence sources indicate he is hiding. In addition, incontrovertible
evidence has come to light of Bill's direct involvement with Anheiser Busch.
It is our belief that until such time as Bill has proven himself to be
trustworthy that strict sanctions be imposed to block his access to
homebrewing supplies, as well as "dual use" items such as thermometers and
turkey fryers. His recent attempt at procuring an aluminum hop back clearly
shows his true intentions to acquire EMB. This threat cannot be ignored. We
must act now. If he isn't stopped then we'll just end up with another Jethro
Gump on our hands.

 -Alan

Lazy Eight Attobrewery
"Where the possibilities are limitless"



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:33:52 -0500
From: "Todd M. Snyder" <tmsnyder at buffalo.edu>
Subject: 1st Annual Niagara Big Beer Competition

Hear Ye! Hear Ye!

The Niagara Association of Homebrewers is pleased to announce the 1st ANNUAL
NIAGARA BIG BEER Competition. It's BIG BEERS for a cold winter!  What better
to warm your hearts between Valentines Day and St. Patrick's Day than a BIG
BEER competition?!

Nothing less than 1.075 starting gravity will be accepted.   Select from
BJCP categories IPA, Old Ale, Scotch Ale, Barleywine, Russian Imperial,
Dopplebock, Eisbock, Foreign Extra Stout, Weizenbock, Dubbel, Tripel,
Belgian Strong Ale, Biere de Garde, Saison. Sorry, no Meads or Ciders.

Entries are accepted from February 14th (Valentines day, don't forget)
through March 12, 2003 with judging and awards ceremony on March 15th.
Entry fee is $5 per 2 bottle entry.

For more information:

www.niagarabrewers.org



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:09:31 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Microwave HERMS

Ron LaBorde says ,

>I still dream about this wild crazy system where I
>have a plastic tubing coil inserted into a microwave
>oven and use the microwave as the heating device. 
>Cannot figure how to safely input and output the vinyl
>tubing without causing possible microwave radiation. 
>Any ideas mucho appreciated.

You make a pair of baffles of small  plumbing fitting thru
the bulkhead using a plastic fitting on the interior wall and
copper from the midwall outward including several 90degree
turns.   You won't pick up much RF assuming you aren't
hanging any copper fixtures inside.   What you do pick up
will be reduced further in the external copper baffles. 

I can't recall exactly, but my recollection is that household 
M-waves operate in the neighborhood of 3Ghz so the
wavelength is around 4 inches.  Make the fitting diam much
smaller than 1/2 wavelength (I'd shoot for 1/2" diam or
less) you'll most of the RF in the turns.

I've seen such modifications to a home microwave used
by another physics grad student - deceased friend of mine
[gravity got him, not microwaves - bad parachute!].
You'd definitely want a microwave power meter to measure
leakage *regularly*.  Roughly as dangerous as pressurized 
steam systems IMO.  I do NOT recommended modifying
microwave ovens in this way - It can be done but it's not for
the casual amateur and the dangers are largely invisible -
especially after your corneas cloud over.


Biggest problem is this - home Mwaves run
around 1KW of RF power input.   That's not much
power.

1kW will increase the temp of 1gal of water by
3.78C per minute (1L by 14.3C/min) , and if you
are performing a 5gal mash of normal gravity beer w/
normal thickness mash you'd approach 1C/min boost rate
with a 1KW power source which is marginal IMO.  Not
useful for larger batches etc.

Anyway I can't see a large-living Cajun brewer (apologies
if I miss my guess here Ron, meant as a compliment not 
otherwise) being satisfied with  a dainty little 1KW
mash power source.   It's a nice idea for small test
batches but ...

I also mentioned some open questions about microwave mashes.
Microwaves in the oven-type freq have been used to cause
selective protein rearrangements.   IOW a home microwave
might denature your enzymes !   I've performed some step
mashes in small scale (~1 gal) using the microwave to step from
low saccharification (60-65C) to hi-sacchr & mashout, and I
didn't have any starch problems, but it *might* play havoc with
some of the enzymes used as a HERMs.   You should test
that further before investing.

 -S




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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:12:13 -0500
From: "Blanchard, Steven B" <stblanch at iupui.edu>
Subject: Inventing brewpubs

Patrick Twohy wrote:  

Berkeley, Calif.'s Mayor Tom Bates has taken credit for 
inventing brew pubs.

The student newspaper had this the other day:

"I was the person who created and founded the whole idea 
of brew pubs," Bates said. "It's an idea that has 
caught on across the country and around the world."

Here all this time I assumed Al Gore had invented brewpubs!

Steve




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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:52:18 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: agar plates

Cynmar Corporation has pre-poured, sterile agar plates on their website,
and I'm a little confused as to which type to get for streaking out
yeast.

Among others, they have malt extract agar plates, 30 for $29.25, and
then they have "universal beer agar" plates, 30 for $11.30.

I assume the malt extract agar plates would be okay for my use, but what
about the universal beer agar plates?



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:54:24 +0000
From: "Chris Eidson" <eidsonc at hotmail.com>
Subject: Leaking spigots

I use a similar spigot on my bottling bucket, but replaced the seals with 
o-ring seals made by Zymico for their no-drill bulkhead for a rubbermaid 
cooler.  I believe I bought it from Brewer's Rendezvous in CA, although I am 
not %100 sure.  A google search for Zymico would send you in the right 
direction, however.  Hope this helps.

Chris Eidson
Birmingham, AL

PS You can always use the following technique to remove hop pellets from 
your wort:  Stir the cooled wort into a whirlpool, allow to settle, and 
siphon off from the side of the vessel.  The hop pellets and trub get drawn 
into a cone shape by the whirlpool.  Pretty effective, easy, and will make 
your finished product taste better.



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:33:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Widget

robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com> wrote:

> The widget contains CO2 that is released when you open a Guiness bottle, so 
> there's no way to gain any type of benefit from a used widget. 
> 
> Here's an indepth article URL that talks about Guiness and their widgets:
> 
> http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,49020,00.html

Yeah. Wired.com is where _I_ go to learn about beer, too. Right
:^)

Go take a peek at this, based on the actual patents and some
"deconstruction" http://hbd.org/brewniversity/engineering/widget/

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie




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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:04:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: Inventing brewpubs

Patrick Twohy wrote:  

> Berkeley, Calif.'s Mayor Tom Bates has taken credit for
> inventing brew pubs.
> 
> The student newspaper had this the other day:
> 
> "I was the person who created and founded the whole idea 
> of brew pubs," Bates said. "It's an idea that has 
> caught on across the country and around the world."

I'm assuming, of course, that this man Bates was, at one time or
another, a Clinton cabinet member? I mean, where else could he
have refined that skill?


- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie




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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:11:45 -0500
From: "Gilbert Milone" <gilbertmilone at hotmail.com>
Subject: Lager

Hello everyone,
    First of all thanks to everyone who has helped me with all my =
problems the "house flavor", the keg corrosion, and finding new kegs. Now 
onto my question. I am brewing my first Lager. It is  a simple american 
lager, withwyeast 2035. My primary ferment is taking place at 48 degrees for 
two weeks.Then I will bring it into room temperature for two days for the 
dyictel(sp)rest. I've read a lot of places that 2ndary should be 10 deg 
colder then primary, do I have to bring the temp down gradually or can I 
just put it in my fridge(35)deg ?
Thanks for the help
 -Gil Milone







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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:19:39 -0800
From: BrianS <schar at cardica.com>
Subject: Party Pig and staling

After my disastrous misadventure in full-scale kegging some years ago (one I
am not going to repeat!), I have been bottling my beer with good results.
However, since I've stepped up to 10-gallon batches, that means I have twice
the beer to bottle.  I have been thinking about buying a couple of Party
Pigs and using them for some of the beer, and bottling the rest for
competitions, gifts, and so forth.  My primary concern with the Party Pig is
how fast the beer goes stale after the pig is "tapped".  I'm afraid that the
last beer out of the pig might be getting stale by the time I get to drink
it.  Is this a valid concern?  What is the experience of Party Pig users out
there?

Brian Schar
Belmont, CA
[2047.2, 273.8] Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:23:43 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: passivation

Kevin Haborak responds to my suggestions for passivation

"All acids are corrosive, assuming you have the same amount of acid mixed in
the same amount of water phosphoric is much more corrosive than HCl
(muratic).  Probably the most accessible weaker acids will be carbonic acid
(any soda), citric (lemon juice) or lactic acid from the LHBS.

Also, you could dilute any of the stronger acids so that they will be less
corrosive than the weaker acids."

I think citric acid will work but I don't believe lactic acid will be
effective at passivation.  I've always used nitric, because it removes
surface iron, which helps prevent that "rusty look" that the OP was talking
about.

I think the issue with corrosiveness for HCL is in Stainless Steel's
susceptibility to chloride pitting corrosion, which defeats the purpose of
passivation.  I don't believe that dilute Phosphoric acid has that problem,
but my reason for mentioning it is that it seems to be more commonly
available than nitric acid.  I'm not sure at all whether Phosphoric would
work in any case.

In a private email, I was told that the welder did indeed use a
non-stainless filler for the weld, though, so I doubt that any of this would
help at all in this case. 

Regards,
Mike Sharp


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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:35:41 -0600
From: George & Lola <georgelola at netscape.net>
Subject: Pressure

If I completely sealed my fermenter.  But had enough sugar and whatever 
to keep my yeast alive let's say indefinitely.

How much pressure could the yeast create in my fermenter before the 
pressure killed them. I understand that the internal pressure of the 
yeast would go up with the pressure of the fermenter.

Would their even be a limit as long as the pressure was held steady?

Thanks in Advance
George



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:41:09 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: American Homebewers Association BoA elections

AHA members (and non-members, as far as that goes)

It's that time of year again to elect three members of the AHA Board 
of Advisors.  The AHA has become member-driven over the last few 
years.  I know - both as a member since 1980 and as a board member 
for a year.  For this to be meaningful, we need to have high 
participation in electing your board.

Full candidate statements are at 
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/election.html with a link to the 
ballot.  Have your membership number handy.  It's on your membership 
card - the same one you use to get pub discounts.

Not a member?  Go to 
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/membership.html to sign up. 
You'll be able to vote and start getting Zymurgy magazine and other 
perks, like the expanding pub discount program.  Or contact your 
local AHA Membership Liaison rep for a membership discount.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:07:11 -0600
From: "Berggren, Stefan" <Stefan_Berggren at trekbike.com>
Subject:  Lagering in Corny Kegs

Fellow lager lovers,

I am currently fermenting my first lager and have a question about
lagering in 5 gallon cornies. After I complete the diacytel rest and lower
the temperature down, can I rack into a keg and lager in the keg that I
intend to serve from? I am worried about autolysis of the yeast cells
while the lager is conditioning at 35deg (approx. 6-8weeks). Does anyone
have any comments on lagering in the serving keg with respect to
autolysis?

Cheers, 

Stefan in Madison, WI

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:31:05 -0500
From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Cleaning ad filtering

Hello all!

I know oyu've probably all heard this before, but I just spent 20 minutes
attempting to coax an answer out of the archives, with no luck. Thing is, I
know I've seen references to this in here before. I just got into all grain
brewing and just converted a keg for use in the full boil. I just need to
pick up a burner to get it functional, and I'm good to go. My questions are
simply:

1) What is a proper procedure for cleaning a stainless keg?

I usually bleach everything.. but a keg is a heck of a lot of space to be
filling with all water and bleach.. just do it anyway? Is there a better
way? Do I need to scrub my newely converted keg with anything before my
first boil? Anything else I'm missing?

2) How do I filter the trub and hops out of the keg after the boil and the
cooling?

I have a keg with a 1/2 ball valve on the outside and a 1/2 dip tube
reaching from the inside down to the very center of the bottom of the curve
in the keg. Now what I'm wondering is, how do you keep from either sucking
up all the junk from the cooled wort and putting that into the carboy, or
how do you just plain stop it from getting plugged? I've thought about a
false bottomw, but then I've seen pics of the little bits of fine
particulates that get through a false bottom and make their way through to
the fermenter/carboy. I thought about a mesh screen.. and then I thought
about it just plain plugging up. Any truth to that rumor? I thought about a
combination of both.. and then thought about the cost effecivness of that. I
thought maye if I switched to always using whole hops only instead of
pellets, that might work and make a natural filter? But I'd still like to
keep my pellet options open, let alone the cost effectivness of pellets vs.
whole hops. I then thought.. why not ask the HBD? What's the general
consensus among converted keg users? When we can't whirlpool like big pot
boilers, what do we do!

Off HBD responses appreciated as well, since I know this has been seen
before.. or just point me to a website I don't know of yet? It's all good..

Mike

Please note my new email address:

meyre at sbcglobal.net



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:57:01 -0500
From: "Smith, Brian (Inland-Gaylord)" <BSmith51 at ICCNET.COM>
Subject: RE: OLD Ale

Ant,

I think I used the recipe in the new joy of homebrewing.  I do know it was
an partial extract brew with lots of northern brewer and cascade hops.  I
also remember using nottingham dry for the first fermentation and adding
pasture champagne yeast to finish.  I brewed this 6 yrs ago and can't find
my notes.  I also do remember using oxygen scavenging caps for the bottles.
Good luck with yours

Brian Smith
Big Ring Brewery
Bogalusa, LA
USA

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Hayes Antony [SMTP:HayesA at aforbes.co.za]
> Sent:	Friday, February 21, 2003 12:14 AM
> To:	'Smith, Brian (Inland-Gaylord)'
> Subject:	RE: OLD Ale
> 
> Hi Brian
> 
> I am glad to hear that the concept works. I like your birthday ritual.
> 
> How bitter did you make the beer and what was your OG, if I may ask?
> 
> Ant
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Smith, Brian (Inland-Gaylord) [mailto:BSmith51 at ICCNET.COM]
> Sent: 20 February 2003 17:43
> To: 'HayesA at aforbes.co.za'
> Cc: 'Homebrewers digest'
> Subject: OLD Ale
> 
> 
> Ant,
> 
>   The week my daughter was born, I brewed a Barley Wine to be consumed at
> her wedding reception.  I chose a B.W. because they do last a long time
> (high hop rates and high alcohol content).  I have 2 cases sealed for the
> reception and a partial case.  I drink one bottle on her birthday every
> year.  It keeps getting better.
> 
> Brian Smith
> Inland Paperboard and Packaging
> Bogalusa Mill
> 
> 
> Confidentiality Warning
> =======================
> The contents of this e-mail and any accompanying documentation
> are confidential and any use thereof, in what ever form, by anyone
> other than the addressee is strictly prohibited.


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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:19:26 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: RTD calibration/correction

David Passaretti asks about RTD calibration/correction

"Upon testing my probe I found that it is
very accurate when compared to a lab thermometer at
low temps, eg 70-80F, but off by about 6F at mash
temps (150F). Is there something wrong with the probe
or is this to be expected. Fortunately my PID has a
probe correction value for easy adjustment. This
explains the high FG on my last batch. "

3 and 4 wire Platinum RTDs are extremely stable and repeatable, and are
often used to calibrate other temperature probes. The certification is
usually checked by measuring the resistance of the element at the triple
point of water (0.01 C).  If it hasn't deviated from the original
calibration, then the probe doesn't need calibration. 

If the reading is off at higher temps, it's probably because of the
linearization of the instrument, not the probe.  The linearization must
match the probe, and there are different curves depending on the platinum
doping.  In the US, they use ASTM 1137 and in Europe it's IEC 60751.  The
difference between them is exceedingly small, but due to the way the
instrument determines the temperature, it becomes significant.

In addition to the probe correction value, you might be able to set some
parameters for linearization in your PID controller, which will improve the
accuracy throughout the range.  The can be obtained from the probe
manufacturer, and will be listed one of two ways:

1. As values for the greek lower case letters alpha beta and delta. You can
ignore the beta parameter for your temperature range (it's used for very
cold temperatures).  

2. They might list values for the upper case latin letters A, B and C, which
are co-efficients in a different linearization equation.  

Your PID should have some documentation on which it needs, and the probe
manufacturer will hopefully supply both sets...

Once you set these constants, assuming your probe hasn't drifted (not
likely), your PID should be QUITE accurate.  You can periodically check it
at the triple point, which is pretty easy to achieve (crushed ice made from
distilled water in a bath of distilled water).  The finer the crush, the
better.  

If you're not at sea level, forget the triple point calibration. Or you can
spend a thousand dollars on a triple point cell.  However, that would
disqualify you from homebrewing competitions!  ;^)

Regards,
Mike Sharp


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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:56:25 -0500
From: "redbeard47.ny" <redbeard47.ny at netzero.net>
Subject: mashing question from a lurker

I lurk and learn a lot here but now I've got to ask a question. Last week I 
read that a mash would spoil if let drop to approximately 120 degrees , If 
I keep the runnings over night and the temp drops would that spoil, I would 
like to split the mashing to the night before to make it less time in my 
wife's kitchen, in really bad weather the outdoor route isn't possible. Bob 
M. Richmond, NY

Beer, it's not just for breakfast anymore!



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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:20:36 -0500
From: mike spinelli <mikespinelli at comcast.net>
Subject: samichlaus in columbus?



HBDers,

I've got a bud in Columbus, OH who can't find Samichlaus.

Any sources appreciated.  His email is phillyrl at juno.com.  Name is Rich.

Thanks.

Mike
Cherry Hill NJ




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