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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Gump on Dry Lager Yeast/Burley ("Rob Moline")
  First All Grain ("Kirk Fleming")
  Re: Ramstein drinking (Bill Rogers)
  The Rob Moline Report ("Rob Moline")
  Bottling Bucket (WAS: Dry Ice Purging) (Andrew Larkin)
  Bottling from the keg ("Dan Gross")
  filling on foam with PrimeTabs ("Mark Tumarkin")
  New Hampshire (Chuck Doucette)
  Re: filling on foam with PrimeTabs ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Ramstein ("A. J. delange")
  What kind of beer did I make? (Jennifer/Nathan Hall)
  Re: Darkening a Dubbel and West Coast AHA location (Jeff Renner)
  Ramstein Drinking ("Gary Malick")
  Wyeast 2278 Check Pils experience ("Andy Mikesell")
  Re: Cereal Mash (Jeff Renner)
  Mash Tun / HLT Insulation ("Reddy, Pat")
   ("Joel Trojnar")
  water analysis/brewing liquor analysis ("Patrick Hughes")
  Zymurgy/Brew Your Own ("Patrick Hughes")


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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 23:33:38 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Gump on Dry Lager Yeast/Burley

 			Gump on Dry Lager Yeast/Burley
       Dave is right, on more than this subject.....
       Lager yeasts are like racehorses, truly finicky, and not easily
amenable to the rigors subjected by fluid bed drying and rehydration......
       As such, it can be done, but often with unacceptable self life. My
understanding is that most/all dry lager yeast are acually an ale that
performed well with those lager parameters.......low esters, temp, time,
etc.....like Nottingham.....which I have used  at  low ferm temps to
emulate...with good results.
      Taxonomy of yeasts no longer rests on lager/ale terms as classically
described....as Dr. Cone has preached for years....performance speaks
louder than top or bottom fermenters.
      But, Dave is correct...Lallemand/Danstar did introduce Kroner as a
'true' dry lager some years ago....perhaps '96? The trials I performed
with it  at  LABCO went well, and the performance/attenuations went exactly as
described in the literature...and I was somewhat surprised when it was
d/c'd. (As I recall, I left the first batch  at  too high a temp for the
first 2 days...and it threw a slight fruity ester..)
     Newer technologies offer better outcomes however.........and the
future offers more possibilities.
     Watch this space.....
     BTW, Dave was right on Clinitest......My apologies, Sir!

Gump
"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:53:55 -0700
From: "Kirk Fleming" <kirkfleming at earthlink.net>
Subject: First All Grain

In #4199 Mike ("Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net>) mentioned his first all-grain
results. Congratulations!! It sounds like you did an all-grain at about the
same point in your brewing 'career' as I did, after just a few extracts.
It's probably unfair to conclude that all of your grain batches will be
better than any of your extract batches could have be (if you do extract
again). But without getting into all those arguments, I just wanted to say
that I never wanted to go back because it was just so much more fun (yes,
and work) to do all grain. Half the fun for me is getting the grain in the
first place and mashing. The other half is that kettle on the boil.

Anyway, glad you enjoyed good results...there's no turning back now. Onward!
This concludes my annual HBD post.

Kirk Fleming
FRSE, FRSL






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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:56:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Rogers <bill6beers at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ramstein drinking

<snip>
Kevin White has a friend going to Ramstein AFB in Germany and asks for
suggestions on places to get a good drink.
<snip>

My handy-dandy Rough Guide to Germany says there's a taproom for the Neufangs
brewery in Saarbrucken called Stamm-Kneipe at St Johanner Markt 11.  There's
also a hausbrauerei ("house brewery" or brewpub) which "makes light and dark
beers and serves cheaper and more basic meals than the restaurant next door".

This hausbrauerei is Stiefelbrau on the corner of Am Stiefel and
Froschengasse.  I like the Rough Guide books.  They always have pub and brewery

listings!  

Of course, those on leave can easily find themselves in Bamberg for excellent
rauchbier in a couple of hours. Or go north to Dusseldorf.  Mmmm, altbier. 
Or NW to Belgium.  He's not all that far from Orval.  There's a hausbrauerei
called Vetter in Heidelberg (in the shadow of the Dom, naturally) that's
pretty good.

Other valuable resources:
http://www.braugasthoefe.com/ lists German brewery gasthouses with and
without hotels.
http://www.mappy.com/ is good for finding a place once you've got an address.
http://www.hausbrauerei.de/ has listings for house breweries all over
Germany, including many in the Rheinland-Pfalz and Saarland near Ramstein. 
http://www.bahn.de/ is the German Rail site, valuable for train times. Look
for the "Schones-Wochenende-Ticket" or happy weekend pass.  This lets 5 
people travel together on the weekends (till 2AM) for 28 euro!  Not each, 
total.  

Prost!
Bill Rogers
Madison, WI








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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 00:26:23 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: The Rob Moline Report

				The Rob Moline Report
     God Bless...the right to choose your destiny....and those that lift
oppression.
Rob Moline

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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 00:28:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Larkin <aj_larkin at yahoo.com>
Subject: Bottling Bucket (WAS: Dry Ice Purging)

I agree with Jonathan Royce's comments.  The bottling bucket works great.
To answer one other point -- to avoid "all that cleaning and sanitizing
and recleaning of the bucket" just use your brew kettle as a bottling
bucket.  If you boil your priming solution in the kettle for a few
minutes you don't have to worry about sterilizing it.  Then siphon from
the secondary directly into the kettle.  I let it sit for 15 minutes
while I rinse bottles, by which time the swirling has caused very
thorough mixing.  Afterward the kettle just needs a quick rinse and
it's ready for your next brew day.





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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:27:59 -0500
From: "Dan Gross" <degross at starpower.net>
Subject: Bottling from the keg

I really like Tidmarsh Major's idea for bottling from the keg which has
served as his secondary fermentation vessel.  It sounds like a remarkably
simple solution for anyone who kegs but wants to bottle a few from the
batch.
I am going to try this idea with the CAP I have in the secondary right now.
I have never used PrimeTabs and I wonder if it would be possible to go a
different route for priming.  How about priming the whole batch in the keg
with a corn sugar solution, mixing it well, then using a very low pressure
to bottle a few.  The keg would then be allowed to condition at 50F for a
couple of weeks instead of force carbonating.
Am I making this more complicated than it needs to be?  Should I keep it
simple and just get some PrimeTabs?
Dan Gross
Olney, Md



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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:30:01 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: filling on foam with PrimeTabs

Tidmarsh wrote:
"One further suggestion to simplify the process: try Domenick
Venezia's PrimeTabs. No need to boil & measure a solution, just drop
tablets in the bottles. As an added benefit, the tablets provide
nucleation sites so that the beer foams slightly in the bottle--just
enough so that when I fill, remove the filler, and place a cap on the
bottle, the foam has just reached the lip of the bottle, purging most
oxygen."

I like this idea, but have a question. I guess if this method drives out the
oxygen it's not as much of an issue but are you able to get consistent fill
levels this way - and if so, how? It seems that as the beer foams up, it would
make it difficult to tell when to stop filling & remove the filler while still
getting consistent fill level. Now, what is the best fill level is another
whole question - I try for approx 3/4 inch from top, preferring a high fill
rather than low.

thanks,

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL





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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 05:15:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Chuck Doucette <cdoucette61 at yahoo.com>
Subject: New Hampshire

Greetings Brewers,

I will be heading off to Nashua, NH. in a couple of
weeks on business and was wondering if there are any
brewpubs of note in the area. I don't know exactly
what our schedule is yet, but hope to have some time
to quaff a few good brews if there are any.

TIA

Chuck Doucette
O'Fallon, IL



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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:23:19 -0600
From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarsh at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: filling on foam with PrimeTabs

Good question, Mark. The foaming isn't a rapid, violent foaming, so 
it's pretty easy to see where the top of the liquid is. 

I also use a Phil's Philler, which leaves the beer in the fill tube 
in the bottle, so that the fill level doesn't change when the filler 
is removed and air isn't drawn back into the bottle. 

Once I remove the filler, the headspace fills with foam as I rest the 
filler in an empty bottle and reach for a cap and the capper.

Tidmarsh 
Tuscaloosa, Ala.

On 19 Mar 2003 at 6:30, Mark Tumarkin wrote:

> I like this idea, but have a question. I guess if this method drives out the
> oxygen it's not as much of an issue but are you able to get consistent fill
> levels this way - and if so, how? It seems that as the beer foams up, it would
> make it difficult to tell when to stop filling & remove the filler while still
> getting consistent fill level. Now, what is the best fill level is another
> whole question - I try for approx 3/4 inch from top, preferring a high fill
> rather than low.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Mark Tumarkin
> Hogtown Brewers
> Gainesville, FL
> 
> 
> 




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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 13:50:46 +0000
From: "A. J. delange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Ramstein



Dave, I think you're confusing Ramstein (in Rheinland-Pfalz) with 
Rheinmain (shares runways with Frankfurt airport).  I do this myself all 
the time. As Ramstein is a huge facility (AF Europaean command  etc.) 
there are lots and lots of places to get a good (and some not so good) 
beers. This is also true for nearby Kaiserslautern which is supposedly 
the largest American city not on American soil. The best way to find 
beer is wander around (in K-town) and look for it. My favorite 
recollection is of turning down an alley to see one of those little 
carriage light like things with panes advertizing Kostritzer. I don't 
remember much of the rest of the evening. There are also nifty guest 
houses with beer gardens scattered about. I can't remember any specific 
names or locations. Your friend should have good hunting.

A.J.



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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:43:51 -0500
From: Jennifer/Nathan Hall <hallzoo at comcast.net>
Subject: What kind of beer did I make?

Just recently brewed what was supposed to be a Northern German Pilsener.
However, I milled the grain with my new Crankandstein grain mill and my
efficiency went through the roof! What was supposed to be a 1.054 starting
gravity ended up at 1.064. The beer is outstanding in both flavor and
appearance, however stronger than the average Pilsener. Throws up a beautiful
long lasting head with Belgian lace clinging to the sides of the glass all the
way to the last sip. Color is also a little too dark for the style, also. It
has a huge Saaz hops aroma and flavor. It doesn't seem to match the guidelines
for a Dort, either. Did I just screw this one up or does it match a style that
anyone has seen before?

Thanks,
Nathan Hall
BBV Brewery
Hallzoo at comcast.net



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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:52:09 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Darkening a Dubbel and West Coast AHA location

"David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net> wrote:

>I just moved a Dubbel to the secondary and would like to darken it some.

I have had luck with caramelized sugar.  Using a clean, very smooth 
skillet, heat a cup or so of sugar on medium heat.  It will melt, 
then turn pale yellow, then as it gets hotter and hotter, it will 
turn tan, brown, and then get nearly black.  Keep stirring to keep it 
from actually burning - I use one of those new silicon rubber 
spatulas that is heat-proof up to something like 450F.

Stop before it smokes and catches fire, and before it smells burnt. 
Pour it onto a piece of aluminum foil (make sure it's not on 
something that heat will damage - I put the foil on a thick cookie 
sheet with a towel underneath) and scrape the skillet clean with the 
rubber spatula.  It will look like very dark peanut brittle.  See a 
good cookbook's section on candy making for additional details if you 
need them - like temperatures, etc.

Then break apart the caramelized sugar and boil it with some water 
and add enough to get the color you want.  I don't think this is very 
fermentable at this point (very, very dark brown - but not quite 
black.

BTW, this also works for darkening rye bread.


I did something like this to add flavor complexity to my latest 
English bitter.  Dave Line wrote of the brewing sugars commercial 
brewers had access to with their "luscious" flavors, and I've seen 
brewing invert sugar chips at an English brewery.  A friend brewed a 
really nice bitter with some Lyle's golden syrup (invert), but while 
that's cheap in England, here it's nearly $5.00 for a smallish can.

So I decided to make my own.  I dissolved 8 oz. of table sugar in a 
cup of deionized water and added enough lactic acid (3 drops) to get 
the pH to ~5.3, and heated it to a simmer to invert it (even though 
yeast will invert the sugar).  I held it at a simmer for an hour or 
so, then proceeded as above.  At first the water just boiled off, 
then it darkened.  I stopped at a rich reddish-brown.  I dissolved 
the resulting "peanut-less brittle" in hot water and added it at the 

This wasn't a lot of sugar for a 7.75 gallon (30L, quarter barrel) 
batch, but it added a nice flavor complexity, some dryness and color.

>We have our Club Octoberfest at my Episcopal Church.  My
>Baptist friends always get a kick out of that!

A little humor for your Baptist friends:

Jews don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah; Protestants don't 
recognize the Pope as the head of the church; and Baptists don't 
recognize one another in the liquor store.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 08:03:35 -0800
From: "Gary Malick" <Gary.Malick at wwu.edu>
Subject: Ramstein Drinking


For Dave with the friend going to Ramstein Germany : Tell your friend to
head over to the town of Trier Germany, very close to Luxemburg, about
1.5 hours from Ramstein,  a wonderful town and there is a nice little
brewery there called Lowenbrau (private not related to the mega brewery
of the same name) They have a nice little roof top bar. Try the
"Treuerer Alt. Here is a link to some more good suggestions. Cheers
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.doctorbee
r.com/jay/beertrav/sgermany.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtrier%2Bgermany%2Blow
enbrau%2Bbrewery%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8

Gary P. Malick   
Bellingham , WA




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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:23:54 -0500
From: "Andy Mikesell" <andy_mikesell at yahoo.com>
Subject: Wyeast 2278 Check Pils experience

A few weeks back I brewed the following kit from Northern Brewer
http://www.northernbrewer.com/docs/kis-html/1333.html.

The yeast is Wyeast #2278 Czech Pils.  Now that the primary ferment is
winding down, long strains with the resemblance of stalactites and seaweed
are handing from the top of the beer.  They have are the same color as the
flocculation that appeared during the vigorous ferment, but are in this
handing form.

Papazian's book indicates this could be an infection, but given the color,
could it simply be an attribute of the yeast?  I have never used this strain
and have never seen anything like this before.

- ------------------------------------
Andrew Mikesell
Westwood, MA [644.2, 86.2] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:23:00 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Cereal Mash

From: John S. <j2saret at yahoo.com> writes:

>my cereal mashes have taken up
>all together too much time.  I see from the digest
>that I can use corn flakes to add the desired flavour.
>  This leads me to a number of questions:  Can anyone
>suggest what weight of corn flakes might substitute
>for a given amount of corn meal/grits/etc?  will I
>lose/gain in gravity points by substituting flakes?

They are exactly equivalent, assuming you are talking about brewers 
corn flakes, not Kelloggs.  Brewers corn flakes, AKA flaked maize, is 
simply pre-gelatinized corn made from large grits that are steam 
moistened then flattened between heated rollers.

I know that someone (Mark Sedam?) recently said he used Kellogg's, 
but I don't like the idea (never have done it, though).  This kind of 
corn flakes are processed with added flavoring - malt and salt, among 
other things.  I like using pure corn.  Ditto for corn puffs.  And 
for oatmeal stout - just use Quaker quick oats (but not instant).

>BTW if anyone has a Carlings Red Cap Clone I would
>greatly appreciate the information.

Off the top of my head.  It's been a while since I've had it, and it 
has been getting tamed down.

This is a lot like my McGinty's Irish-American Red Ale but a little 
stronger (it used to be a little stronger than typical US brews)

OG 1.048-50, 25% flaked corn with 5-8% medium crystal, a touch of 
black malt just for color (maybe an ounce and cold steep it and add 
it late in the boil - see 
http://www.briessmalting.com/tips%20from%20techs/coldwater.htm). 
Balance 6-row or 2-row.  Bitter to ~20 IBU.  Cluster is traditional. 
Maybe some Styrian Goldings or Fuggles for last 20 minutes.  An ale 
yeast that you like.  Not 1056 or Nottingham for my tastes as they 
are too neutral and finish too dry.

>(every time I click a link to calculate rennerian I
>get a bunch of 404's)

Try the link below - it works for me.  Don't forget that west 
longitude is a negative number.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Calculate your Rennerian Coordinates at http://hbd.org/rennerian_table.shtml


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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:43:25 -0600
From: "Reddy, Pat" <Pat.Reddy at mavtech.cc>
Subject: Mash Tun / HLT Insulation

Thanks for all the great replies regarding mash mixer motors, they helped a
lot.
My next question is regarding insulation.
Has anyone seen or used the aluminum insulation being sold at hardware
stores like Home Depot and Lowes?
>From what I can see it's essentially 3/8" bubble wrap sandwiched between 2
sheets of very thin aluminum.
It comes in a large roll that could wrap around my 1/2 barrel keg HLT a good
3 times.  Any thoughts on how effective this might be?
Thanks again people.

Pat Reddy
MAVERICK Technologies
(618)281-9100 x134
pat.reddy at mavtech.cc
 



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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 13:08:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joel Trojnar" <joel at trojnar.com>
Subject: 

Fellow Homebrewers:

Our (James River Homebrewers) 11th Annual Dominion Cup in
Richmond, VA is nearing.  Entries being accepted today
until April 3.  Send your best in!

- ------------------------------------------------------------


The Dominion Cup Competition is sanctioned by the American
Homebrewers Association and the Beer Judge Certification
Program. Beers must not be brewed in any commercial
establishment. Judging will take place at the Legend
Brewery in Richmond, Virginia on April 5th, 2003.

ENTRY INFORMATION
Entries must be bottled in green or brown 10-14 oz. Crown
cap bottles without labels, raised lettering, silk
screened markings (ala Corona), or embossed lettering.
"Grolsch type" bottles are not allowed. Caps with markings
must be blackened out with a magic marker.

All entries must be accompanied with an official AHA entry
form. Each bottle must have a bottle ID form attached with
a rubber band. Be sure to include the category and
subcategory name and number or letter on each bottle.
Please indicate any special ingredients used in your
recipe on your entry form. For Novelty beers, please
indicate type of beer. Entrants must submit 3 bottles for
each entry. The registration fee is $5.00 per entry.

Please make checks payable to: James River Homebrewers

WHEN, WHERE, AND HOW TO ENTER
Entries will be accepted between March 19 and April 2,
2003. No late entries will be accepted. Send entries to:

Dominion Cup
c/o Legend Brewing Co.
321 W. 7th Street
Richmond, Virginia 23224

OR

The WeekEnd Brewer - Home Brew Supply
4205 West Hundred Road
Chester, VA. 238312
Mark box for: Dominion Cup

PACK ENTRIES WELL! Pad each bottle and pad entire box.
Line the box with a plastic garbage bag and twist-tie
securely. Clearly mark the package as FRAGILE!

Ship UPS or similar. Do not ship via US MAIL or bus
service. For local brewers, entries can be dropped off at
Legend Brewing Co. or The WeekEnd Brewer Home Brew Supply
in Chester. Please box entries, with "Dominion Cup"
written on box. Loose unboxed bottles will not be
accepted.

WHAT YOU GET!
Best of Category winners receive a ribbon and prizes and
will go on to a best of show judging round. Best of Show
winner will receive an engraved Dominion Cup.

Entry Categories Prizes will be awarded in BJCP Categories
to Ales and Lagers categories (1) through (24).
Submissions within these major categories will compete
with each other. Identify your submission(s) with numbers
and names... i.e., "1a - AMERICAN LIGHT LAGER -
Light/Standard/Premium"

FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
Joel Trojnar, Competition Coordinator
e-mail to: joel at trojnar.com





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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:22:00 -0600
From: "Patrick Hughes" <pjhinc at eriecoast.com>
Subject: water analysis/brewing liquor analysis

In HBD 4297 Dave Burley writes about the significant difference between a
local water analysis and a local brewing liquor analysis. I recently
received a recipe and I am wondering if this is an example of this.
 HBD contributor Gregor from Berlin was kind enough to send me a recipe for
German Export from Hubert Hanghofer's book, "Bier Brauen Nach Eigenem
Geschmack"  The recipe calls for acidulated malt. Is this an example of a
brewer dealing with his local water supply to brew a light colored beer? Or
am I off base on the purpose of the acidulated malt? I have never used it
and don't know what it's purpose is.
Patrick




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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:39:29 -0600
From: "Patrick Hughes" <pjhinc at eriecoast.com>
Subject: Zymurgy/Brew Your Own

 Read the latest edition of Zymurgy with great interest. Congrats to HBD
regulars  Steve Alexander and Mark Sedam for their fun and interesting
articles. The zine has been out for awhile but thought I would mention it as
I thought it was a particularly good issue.
On a similar note. I thought the very opinionated  Horst Dornbusch article
on Octoberfest was also some good reading. Any opinions on his ideas of
introducing specific parameters to separate the Vienna, Marzen, Octoberfest
beers into separate sub-styles?
Patrick




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---