---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Subject: bittering hops - all the same? ("Doug A Moller")
  Bittering hops - NOT all the same (Randy Ricchi)
  RE: Subject: bittering hops - all the same? ("Sven Pfitt")
  RE: aeration (Michael Hartsock)
  kidney infection. (Michael Hartsock)
  carbonating "early" (Marc Sedam)
  misinformation ("David Boice")
  RE: weizen yeast (Michael Hartsock)
  Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:06:46 -0500 (CDT) (Leo Vitt)
  Re: kidney infection (Jeff Renner)
  kidney infections ("Dr. Pivo")
  Re: kegging directly after primary (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Newbie Lager Brewing (Jeff Renner)
  Re: What's all that stuff in our beer!?! (David Towson)
  Pre Boil Brew Water? ("Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D")
  Sterling as a substitute for Saaz?? (NO Spam)
  Can one over aerate wort? (fljohnson)
  Sam Adams Vienna Style Lager (David Towson)
  re:aeration (David Passaretti)
  Re: Fruit Beers ("Rob Dewhirst")
  Help with Spring Break ("Jeffrey Rankert")
  Call for Judges - AHA NHC East Regional - Cleveland Ohio ("Chuck Bernard")
  re: Weizen yeast ("-S")
  The bottom of the barrel bock theory (RiedelD)
  Growing Yeast (George & Lola)
  Yeast Nutrient ("Rob Moline")


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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 06:34:22 -0500
From: "Doug A Moller" <damoller at intergate.com>
Subject: Subject: bittering hops - all the same?

From: "Hofmann, Chris" <Chris.Hofmann at camtronics.com>

Of course you can tell the difference, all hops are different and do
contribute to the flavor of beer. As for fresher hops, they all are
harvested in the fall and sold during the year till the next harvest meaning
he cant be getting his hops fresher because they all are harvested at the
same time. It how they are stored after harvest that counts!
Sounds like he's a little lazy wally!

Doug A Moller
Not enough beer to drink!




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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:05:59 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Bittering hops - NOT all the same

This is an old Momily. Go back 10 or 15 years and you'll see the
homebrewing books preaching this same thing, that bittering additions
don't add flavor. A little experience (you now have it) and you find
that that's B.S.
Granted, the bittering hops won't have as MUCH of a flavor impact as
later additions, but it CAN have some impact, depending on the variety.
You will also notice that some hops used just for bittering can have a
"rougher" bitterness than other hops used just for bittering.



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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:59:11 -0400
From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Subject: bittering hops - all the same?

Hofmann, Chris Ponders his delima of loosing a good HB shop and having to go 
to another...

>Went to my local homebrew store recently to pick up batch ingredients.
>Actually, and sadly, my supplier of the last five years had closed >down so 
>I was going to the "other guy".

Sorry for your loss of a good supplier

>The 60 minute bittering hops I had spec'd for my brew were Galena. In >the 
>past for the same brew I had used Centennial.
>This guy lectured me on the fact that in the end, all bittering hops >were 
>the same. By the time you boil 'em for 60 minutes, there ain't no 
> >difference in flavor.  All your doing is extracting bitterness, he >said.

Hmmmmm.. I don't think so..

>He only carried one variety, Nugget, so he could always ensure >freshness. 
>That's the most important thing, he said. He said I >wouldn't be able to 
>tell any difference.

So he grows his own in a hot-house and picks them the night before? Hops are 
grown on an anual basis, and processed in the fall. Storage conditions are 
very important, but if he is not keeping them in a freezer he is not keeping 
them fresh. If he is keeping them in a freezer, he should be able to stock a 
variaty and keep them fresh.

>I was skeptical. But what choice did I have? I bought the Nugget.
>Made the batch and guess what?  I can tell a difference.
>What do you all think of his argument? Is there any merit?

I think he is "As full of stuffing as a christmas turkey".

I made a second running beer with a handful of galena for bittering only and 
I KNOW I can taste the hops. The flavor is not as dominant as the later 
additions, but it is there. Anyone that tells you that the bittering hops 
don't matter is doing a great disservice as a supplier. I would be suspect 
of any advice he gave.

Find yourself a good mail order house and start stocking a bit of hops at 
home if necessary. Stout Billy's, Williams, BB&MB, and others are good all 
around supply stores. There are Hops specialties houses like Fresh Hops, 
Hops Direct, and Just Hops that can provide a good selection of hops as 
well.

The freezer in my beer refrigerator has near 20# of hops in it.  I buy by 
the pound and find that even if I throw some away after they get to be too 
old, it is still cheaper than buying one ounce at a time.

I can always save the old hops for pLambics.....

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian

"There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968






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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 06:31:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: aeration

I use a metal paint stirrer made to fit on a drill and
long enough for a five gallon bucket that I bought
very very cheaply, it aerates very very well and looks
just like the ones sold at HB stores.

mike

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 06:38:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: kidney infection.

There is no way that your home brew could cause a
kidney infection.  They are often caused by bacteria
that are in the normal flora of the vagina getting in
places they don't belong.  THe only way that "scrumpy"
home brew might be the cultprit could be if it caused
a change in urine pH.  However, brewer's yeast
actually stabalizes urinary pH.  Diets that include
alot of tea, coffee, and soda.  Tell her to drink more
home brew and less of the above.

More realistically, a brewer's yeast supplement and
maybe a probiotic like multidopholus (includes
lactobacillus) can control the problem in infections
become problematic.

But I'm not a doctor: just a medical researcher in an
unrelated field (my wife is predisposed to urinary
tract infections, I understand they are similiar in
cause to kidney infections).

Mike

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:43:43 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: carbonating "early"

Steve Dale-Johnson wants to know about one-step carbonating from the 
primary...

Sure.  This can be done, but you generally have to be prepared for a 
little cloudiness in the first few pints.  No worries.  In fact I almost 
never use a secondary anymore unless I'm making a lager I know I can't 
get to kegging for a while.  

If you're making a beer that you're pretty sure about the final gravity 
you can even rack the beer to the keg with a few gravity points left in 
the wort.  For example, if the FG is supposed to be 1.012 you can rack 
the beer to the keg around 1.015 (+/-) and seal it up.  The remaining 
fermentation will carbonate the beer and reach terminal gravity 
simultaneously.  When I do this, I also add a package of unflavored 
gelatin dissolved in a cup of water to the keg before racking the beer 
to it.  This helps pack down the sediment better.

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:45:57 -0400
From: "David Boice" <daveboice at insight.rr.com>
Subject: misinformation

On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 Wil at thebeermanstore wrote:

<8) Bock beer is from the bottom of the barrel/fermentor and only comes out
during spring cleaning at the brewery.


Reminds me of a book someone gave me a few years back. I think it was part
of a Time Life food series and this one was all about alcohol. 

The book was very interesting; how scotch and other distilled beverages are
made, info on wine growing regions, how they age and blend port etc. In the
beer section they explained, in detail, how breweries could only clean their
"vats" once a year and then used these dregs to make Bock beer. 

I was disappointed in that I had looked to the author as an authority on the
subject and had enjoyed learning about how other alcoholic beverages are
made. Now I distrusted all that I had read. Make's you realize how easy it
is to except things as fact just because they are published.


David Boice
Carroll Ohio





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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 06:49:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: weizen yeast

As strang as it may seem i drank a warm budweiser (it
was a long day) and could taste 4 VG very faintly.  I
thought i was crazy, but i detected it again in
another bottle at a later date.  Anyone have any
comment on this?

mike

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 07:35:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leo Vitt <leo_vitt at yahoo.com>
Subject: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:06:46 -0500 (CDT)

Mike Hewitt asked several questions about lager brewing.

>Subject: Newbie Lager Brewing 

>I'm planning to brew a batch of Maerzen/Oktoberfest and, being an
>inexperienced lager brewer, have a few questions about mashing, cold
>fermentation and lagering:

>1.  Mashing:  If I use German Pilsner malt is it necessary to do a 
>protein rest or is it just a good idea?

Not necessary.  Is it a good idea?  I do it, but that doesn't 
neccessarily make it a good idea.  
My theory is it is a good idea.  However, I exect to see different 
opinions posted on it.


>2. .......
>    Should I:
>        1. Chill the wort to fermentation temp in a holding tank
>       and then rack, into a primary fermentor, aerate and pitch a
>       chilled yeast starter?  It seems to me that if I do this
>       It'd be inviting unwanted microbes to dinner by extending 
>       the lag time during the chilling.
>   OR
>      2. Chill as much as possible with my imersion chiller,
>         aerate and pitch yeast and put the wort in the fridge.
>         This would reduce the lag but things may start too warm.

I go with choice #2.  My idea is get the yeast going.  The faster
you get them in the wort, the less time any other microbes have
to do something.  I ferment with the frig thermostat at 48-50F.
Put another thermometer in there to check against the thermostat.

>3. Finally lagering:  Should I rack at the end of primary fermentation
>   and bulk lager for 6 or 8 weeks and then inject new yeast at 
> bottling.

  >  OR

> Can I prime and bottle at the end of secondary fermentation as I do 
> for ales and lager in the bottle

I go with the first choice here.  Yeast is sometimes not lively
enough to carbonate after my 8 weeks in the range 32-35F.  I 
add some dry ale yeast at bottling and store at room temp 3-4 weeks. 
That tiny bit of fermentation doesn't change the beer character.

Use large yeast starters for lagers.  I double the size of my
starter when making lager.   I use a 1 gal jug with 3 quarts of
starter.  White labs yeast just go directly in the starter.
Wyeast smack packs go though it's own smack, wait for the full
expansion and then go in the yeast starter.  In the days of the 
old small wyeast packs, I had a 1 pint starter, then step up
to the 3 quart starter.




=====
Leo Vitt
Sidney, NE



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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:32:01 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: kidney infection

Alex Lawton <a_w_lawton at yahoo.co.uk> writes from the home of the 
famous cathedral, Winchester UK:

>does anyone know anything
>about kidney infections and homebrew? A few weeks ago
>SWMBO got a kidney infection 24 hours after drinking
>some scrumpy cider I Made. I drank half of the bottle
>with her and was unaffected, there were also no
>unusual off tastes I could detect. No one else who
>tried the cider was similarly affected. Am I innocent?

While I don't even play a doctor on TV, it is only common sense that 
there is no way that anything in the upper digestive tract could get 
to the kidneys.  Women are more prone to urinary tract infections 
than men because of anatomical differences, but that is bottom up, so 
to speak, rather than top down.  She was only drinking the scrumpy, I 
take it.

It reminds me of the bad advice a nurse practitioner gave my sister 
about a yeast infection - that she shouldn't consume any yeast 
products - bread, beer, etc.  (I related this here once before and 
mis-attributed the advice as coming from a physician rather than a 
NP).

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:25:56 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: kidney infections

A worried homebrewer wonders about scrumpy related kidney infections.

Kidney infections traditionally come from the bottom and work there way
up, so unless the scrumpy was being fed through the urethra (the
"tinkler" pipe) you and the product are innocent.

Homebrewers are traditionally extremely creative at finding methods for
solving problems with very little resources, but I don't even wish to
speculate on how "urethral drinking" should take place, and caution
others from trying a "stout enema".

Dr. Pivo



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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:38:54 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: kegging directly after primary

"Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com> writes from 
Vancouver, BC, Canada

>The short question of my previous post in question is whether anyone has
>tried transfering to a corny keg directly from the primary, priming with a
>little less sugar and letting it finish and carbonate in one step.
>
>Does the small amount of yeast run the risk of off flavours from autolysis,
>or is this about the same as in a normal bottle priming/keg priming??  I've
>shortened a couple dip tubes 1" and am trying it with an irish red ale and
>wyeast 1084, just wondering if I will need to transfer or if I can leave it
>as is and just drink it.

This is my SOP.  I don't use any priming sugar, but simply adjust the 
final carbonation with bottled CO2.  If I am doing everything right, 
I don't even need to do that, but that is rare.  While I prefer to 
rack once more to get the beer off the sedimented yeast, sometimes I 
am lazy and don't.  As long as the keg is cool or cold, there should 
be no problem if you don't keep it months and months.  Obviously, the 
colder the beer, the longer you can keep it, and it would seem best 
to rack it once more.

BTW, I don't shorten the tubes.  The first few glasses are cloudy but 
as long as you don't move the keg, the beer is clear after that until 
the keg blows.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:58:24 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie Lager Brewing

Mike Hewitt <mhewitt at publicnetworking.org> writes from Kansas City, MO

>1.  Mashing:  If I use German Pilsner malt is it necessary to do a protein
>     rest or is it just a good idea?

Not only unnecessary but probably not even a good idea with modern 
malts.  They have been malted to take care of this for you in the 
malting process.


>     My immersion chiller will not chill the wort to fermentation temp.
>
>     Should I:
>            1. Chill the wort to fermentation temp in a holding tank
>               and then rack, into a primary fermentor, aerate and pitch a
>               chilled yeast starter?  It seems to me that if I do this
>               I'd be inviting unwanted microbes to dinner by extending the
>               lag time during the chilling.

Dave Miller (in his Classic Beer Style Series book Continental 
Pilsner) actually recommends doing this, not for the reason you give, 
but in order to rack the wort off the settled cold break.  If your 
sanitation is good, it shouldn't be a problem.  But like you, it 
makes me a little uneasy.

>    OR
>             2. Chill as much as possible with my imersion chiller,
>                aerate and pitch yeast and put the wort in the fridge.
>                This would reduce the lag but things may start too warm.

Chris White of WhiteLabs recommends pitching at warmer temperature 
for a fast start and dropping the temperature after fermentation 
starts.  I don't like to do this simply because it isn't the way 
lagers are traditionally done, but my well water is so cold that I 
can get the wort down to the lower 50s much of the year.  I always 
pitch the yeast from a big starter, so starting cold is not a problem.

My suggestion is that you get your wort as cold as you can and pitch, 
then refrigerate the fermenter.

>3.  Finally lagering:  Should I rack at the end of primary fermentation
>      and bulk lager for 6 or 8 weeks and then inject new yeast at bottling.
>
>     OR
>
>     Can I prime and bottle at the end of secondary fermentation as I do for
>     ales and lager in the bottle

Either way works, and you don't need to add new yeast even after bulk 
lagering.  Just be sure that you slurp up a little extra yeast with 
your racking cane when you rack to the priming vessel.  You don't 
need a lot, and it will still be viable enough.

Welcome to the wonderful world of lagers.  Hope you'll do a CAP soon.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:59:41 -0400
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: What's all that stuff in our beer!?!

In HBD 4221, Omar asks how to avoid getting a lot of junk when he drains 
his new Sabco brew kettle.  He also mentions having whirlpooled to 
concentrate all the junk in the center.

I just checked the Sabco website, and although they have redesigned their 
converted-keg kettles somewhat since I bought mine several years ago, they 
still seem be using the same arrangement for the drain siphon.  The pickup 
tube extends into the center of the keg.  Therefore, whirlpooling creates 
what one might call an "optimally bad" situation by forcing all the hop 
fragments and break material to congregate around the pickup tube, thereby 
pretty much guaranteeing that nearly all of it will be sucked up as the 
wort is drained.

The solution is to rearrange things so that the wort pickup point is moved 
to the outside edge of the kettle, as far from the center as 
possible.  This is easily done because the Sabco design allows the curved 
pickup tube to be rotated so that it hooks to the side rather than 
down.  Just turn the pickup tube sideways, and extend it to the outside 
edge of the keg with a piece of plastic tubing held in place with a hose 
clamp.  Use the kind of tubing that has embedded reinforcing webbing, so it 
doesn't collapse.  Then when you whirlpool, the crud will settle in the 
center, at the lowest point in the kettle, and the wort will be pulled from 
a point away from the crud.

I think most of the residue in the fermenter is hop fragments, and I 
recommend siphoning the fermenting beer off the crud into another clean 
sanitized container.  If you don't have a second carboy, use whatever else 
is available to hold the beer temporarily while you clean and sanitize your 
carboy, and then put the beer back in there.  Be sure to siphon gently with 
the discharge end of the hose right at the bottom of the second container, 
so as to avoid splashing and oxygen pickup as much as possible.  If 
necessary, you can fake a second container using a new sanitized plastic 
trashcan liner supported by a trashcan, wicker basket, diaper pail or 
whatever.  If you do this, be sure to test the bag for leaks first by 
blowing air into it.

Dave in Bel Air, Maryland



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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:14:35 -0400
From: "Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D" <lupolds at jhmi.edu>
Subject: Pre Boil Brew Water?


I'm thinking about playing with my water ion concentrations to better
mimic regional brews.  However, the more I read into brew-water
chemistry, the more I get confused.  Here's the problem, I pre-boil to
get rid of the chlorine.  This should then alter bicarbonate and calcium
levels by CO(2) gas and CaCO(3) precipitate.  However, I've never seen
any precipitate post-boil.  I would guess that cooling would be required
to form the CaCO(3) as most ionic bonds are lost at high heat?  I
generally pre-boil and then transfer ~200 F water, using a pyrex
measuring bowl as ladle, into my mash tun.  I then wait until it hits 18
degrees over my target temp and then add grains.  So, if there is
precipitate at these temperatures, I probably don't transfer it.  If
there is no precipitate then, in the end, I haven't lost any calcium and
I've only lost some bicarbonate to carbon dioxide. Can anyone tell me
how to estimate what my ion concentrations are after this short
pre-boil?  Also, if I am to account for this, should I add my
gypsum/Epsom/baking soda before or after the boil?

Thanks for your help!

Shawn 




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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:33:43 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Sterling as a substitute for Saaz??


Sterling as a substitute for Saaz?  Wow, this is the
FIRST time I ever heard this.

Sterling is very, very British.  This is a hop that
does well in English Style Ales.  It does well in
British or English styles, as a dual purpose aroma
or flavor hop.  It is appropriate in these styles.

I've NEVER heard of anyone using it in a pilsener,
lighter ales, or in any way as a substitute for Saaz.
It is NOT the same.  It is NOT similar.  It is NOT
an appropriate substitute for Saaz, IMO.

Bill



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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:14:40 -0400
From: fljohnson at .SYNTAX-ERROR
Subject: Can one over aerate wort?

Dear fellow homebrewers:

We understand head formation and retention to be significantly 
dependent upon the protein content of the beer, as the head itself 
consists in part of denatured proteins. Therefore, it stands to reason 
that the more foam produced during aeration of the wort at pitching 
(barring other factors that would "hide" the foamformation, such as 
oils), the less protein that will be available in the finished beer for 
head formation/retention. If the amount of proteins denatured during 
aeration is a significant proportion of the total available, then one 
could be significantly compromising the head retention of the beer if 
one aerates more than necessary to saturate the wort with air. (I know 
I'm not the first to bring this up on this forum.)

So, if I'm not entirely wrong on this point--and I await your kindly 
correction if I am--one could actually do some harm to the beer by 
extending the aeration. I don't know if the proportion of proteins 
denatured during aeration is significant or not, but I have had beers 
with poor head retention and I tend to aerate for a a good 30 minutes 
or more at pitching. Often, I'll aerate for 10 minutes, turn off the 
pump for a while to let the foam collapse, turn the pump on again, and 
repeat this cycle for over an hour. (This is after pitching settled 
yeast coming from a 1600 mL constantly, infusion-fed starter.)

I could imagine that one would ideally only aerate for a time 
sufficient to approach saturation, and if one wished to provide 
additional oxygen to the growing yeast, one would aerate to saturation 
a few hours later, and perhaps even a third time. (I know you've heard 
this approach  being used by at least some commercial breweries.)

Does anyone have any data on oxygen content of wort versus aeration 
time using an aquarium pump and stone?  I know the data would be 
significantly dependent upon one's equipment, but any data on this at 
all would be helpful.

Flame away!

- --
Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:12:31 -0400
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Sam Adams Vienna Style Lager

I just discovered that Boston Beer Company is selling a Vienna Lager.  We 
have that style scheduled for the upcoming September competition at our 
local club, The Libation Association of Northern Maryland, and I'm the one 
who must procure the style samples that are tasted before the judging.  In 
the past when we have had this style, the number of decent commercial 
examples has been pretty darn small, so I would like to solicit the views 
of the group concerning the Sam Adams offering.

How do you lager brewers/drinkers/judges rate this beer?

Dave in Bel Air, Maryland



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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:21:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Passaretti <dpassaretti at yahoo.com>
Subject: re:aeration

I use an inline aerator and actually they are very
easy to build and use.  I have it in line directly
after my wort chiller. It is comprised of a piece of 2
inch copper tubing with one T on each end. The tube is
situated vertically on the side of my brew stand. 
Into the top I threaded a dial thermometer so the face
is pointing up. Into the bottom is threaded a FPT x
1/4" compression fitting.  The stone is attached to
length of ss tubing that passes through the
compression fiting.  The entire thing is then threaded
into the bottom of the tubing.  The third limb of the
bottomt Tee has a QD to connect from my wort chiller. 
The top T has a QD the goes to mt fermenter.  The wort
passes form the kettle, through a pump, and then into
the aerator. It is arearted with o2 then passes by the
thermometer and into the kettle. If you know how to
sweat copper the entire project will take about 30 min
and cost $20

David Passaretti 



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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:26:12 -0500
From: "Rob Dewhirst" <rob at hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: Re: Fruit Beers

> From: "Jason Lindner" <jason at admin5.fastmail.fm>

>After much research, I put the
> fruit into the secondary.  When it was time to move my brew from primary
> to secondary, I flash pasteurized two pounds of frozen blueberries by
> dumping them into boiling water, and then poured them into the secondary.
>  The beer didn't end up with much of a blueberry taste to it, though.

I think this might have some sort of blanching effect on the blueberries.
If you want to use fresh blueberries, I would suggest these other alternate
methods -

 - freeze only, then put in a healthy secondary
 - unfreeze, add sulphites to a puree of the berrys
 - boiling water bath in large canning jars

I find that for the cost and expense of large amounts of fruit for 10 gallon
batches, it's just as easy to use Oregon Fruit Products puree.  Though I did
recently notice the cost of those went up.



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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:13:32 -0400
From: "Jeffrey Rankert" <jrankert at msn.com>
Subject: Help with Spring Break

Hello to all, I'm a long time lurker, though I know many who are regulars.

For the wife's spring break we are going to London.  We have been there
before and know the Pubs, and Real Ales.  What I need some input on has to
do with Homebrew in London.  Are there any LHBS (London Home Brew Shops?) in
the neighborhood of Marble Arch/Edgeware Road.  Any near Tube stations that
are worth checking out?

Jeff Rankert - AABG
About 20 miles N 10 Mi East of Renner.


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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:18:24 -0400
From: "Chuck Bernard" <bernardch at mindspring.com>
Subject: Call for Judges - AHA NHC East Regional - Cleveland Ohio

Call for Judges - AHA National Homebrew Competition East Regional

When:  Friday and Saturday, April 25-26, 2003
Where:  J.W. Dover Beer & Winemaking Supplies, Westlake, Ohio (Cleveland
Western suburbs)

A consortium of Northeast Ohio homebrew clubs are proud to announce that
they are the host site for the 2003 AHA National Homebrew Competition First
Round East Regional.

Judging will take place with a single session Friday evening, April 25
beginning at 6:30PM and two sessions on Saturday, April 26 with the AM
session beginning at 9:00AM and the PM session beginning after lunch.  All
judging will take place at J.W. Dover Beer and Winemaking Supplies, 24945
Detroit Road, Westlake Ohio.  Westlake is located in the western suburbs of
Cleveland, about 14 miles from downtown, and just minutes from Interstates
I-90 and I-480.

Judges and stewards are needed for this event.  Lunch on Saturday is
provided for judges and stewards.  You do not need to be able to judge at
all three sessions to participate.  Judges of all skills and abilities are
welcome and encouraged to attend.

After the conclusion of the PM judging session on Saturday, the local clubs
will be hosting a dinner/banquet Saturday evening with food provided by
members of the local homebrew clubs.  In addition, several local brewpubs
and micros have graciously donated an assortment of beers.  Local
homebrewers will also be providing many different beers.

For those coming from out of town, J.W. Dover has arranged for a block of
rooms at the Westlake Marriott (minutes away) for anyone wishing to spend
the night.  Room rates are 59.00 per night for a double, and the suites are
about $90-95.00 per night and will sleep 3-4 comfortably.  Go to
www.JWDover.com for details on the lodgings.

Interested judges or stewards can send an email to me at
beerjudge at mindspring.com  or Mike Krajewski, judge coordinator, at
kujo at access4less.net.  Please indicate which sessions you will be attending.

Please try to respond as soon as possible so we can organize judging
flights.

Chuck Bernard           bernardch at mindspring.com
Medina OH
Assistant Judge Coordinator




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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:20:17 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: Weizen yeast

J.N. (JohanNico) Aikema,

>I was wondering if anyone (from Germany??) has an answer on my questions:
>How many yeasts have the possibility to make 4-vinyl guaiacol (4-VG).
>
>In Germany are about 600 breweries and most (at least a lot) of them make a
>Weizenbier. Do they all use the same yeast for Weizenbier (Wheatbeer)?

I can't answer the question directly, as to the number of commercial weizen
yeasts, but there are certainly several.   I must say that you can't easily
tell from tasting,    By changing the temps and aeration scheduled you can
vastly change the amount of esters and perhaps the 4VG levels.   This does
bring up a question - is the Weihenstephan yeast bank database on-line
somewhere.    I've searched high and low w/ no luck.

The phenolic off flavor(POF+) genetics required to produce 4VG from ferulic
acid (and styrene from cinnamic acid) are common in many wild S.cerevisea
yeasts.  In a JIB study of wild and brewing yeasts it was found that nearly
all the wild yeasts were 4VG producers and there was a considerable range of
4VG production in brewing yeasts in a test fermentation - with some
non-weizen ale yeast producing a fair bit.    It is said that conventional
brewing yeasts have a defective POF+ gene [Daly et al, 1997 '26th Congress
of the EBC Proceedings'].

 -S







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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:33:27 -0400
From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Subject: The bottom of the barrel bock theory

Wil wrote:

>8) Bock beer is from the bottom of the barrel/fermentor and only comes 
>out during spring cleaning at the brewery.

This is nearly exactly what my Grandpa tells me.  The first three-four times
he mentioned it, I just nodded and so "Oh... how interesting."  Last time I
told him that it didn't really fit with how I understood brewing and bocks,
specifically.  He stood his ground.  I feel kind of badly... you're supposed
to respect your elders, you know?  Anyway, does anyone know how this
'theory' evolved?

Dave Riedel
Victoria, BC, Can.



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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:31:02 -0500
From: George & Lola <georgelola at netscape.net>
Subject: Growing Yeast

Hi Everybody

A little off topic but still within guidelines I hope.

I am interested in producing a little fuel alcohol for myself.  Brewer's 
Yeast is only good up to around 10%.  If I am to produce any fuel I want 
to be up around 20%.  So my question is;  If I took a package of wine 
yeast that would work to make 5 gallon of 20% wine.  How much water and 
sugar would I need to grow one package of yeast up to enough to ferment 
lets say 100 gallon?  Could someone give me a guideline on this. How 
much water, how much sugar, how often to aerate with pure O2 or how long 
it would take. Would it even be possible to grow 5 gallon worth of yeast 
up to 20 times and use it in 100 gallons of wash?

Thanks
George



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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:55:42 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Yeast Nutrient

			Yeast Nutrient

     Steve suggests that he adds his nutrient to a chilled wort.....I would
strongly suggest that any nutrient be added to a boil, 5-10-15/60 before End
of Boil, pick your paranoia level....(I use Servo, and add it to the boil
15/60 before EOB)
     Any yeast nutrient is also an excellent bacteria nutrient....and
depending upon storage conditions, etc...may be growing beasties sitting on
the shelf.....adding it to a chilled oxygenated wort is asking for trouble,
IMHO.
     Of course, YMMV.

Cheers!
Gump

 "Have You Entered The Lallemand Scholarship?? Go to
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html for further info!"


>From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com>
>Subject: aeration, and kegging directly after primary
>Dave Larsen is wondering how the rest of the world aerates their wort.  I
>still have not hooked up the little bernz-o-matic O2 cylinder as cranking
up
>the fizz-x seems to do such a good job.  Turns 5 gallons of wort into about
>7.5 gallons of Beer Julius in about 2 minutes.  I also add yeast nutrient
at
>this point and then dump in a quart starter after.  Lag times are rarely
>more than 3-4 hours.
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