HOMEBREW Digest #4291 Tue 08 July 2003

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  Re: AHA Pub Discounts (Steven S)
  effect of water on attenuation (Marc Sedam)
  AHA discount at Rock Bottom; Paulaner Brewery ("Steve B")
  Re:  AHA pub discount program ("")
  RE: Too Much Beer ("Jodie Davis")
  question from a new person -equipment & Brewery Name ("Reddy, Pat")
  Wheat Beer/ Low efficiency (Michael Hartsock)
  RE: Old Fridge Insulation ("Renato Bugge")
  Possible Mash Pot at Target (mohrstrom)
  Marbles... (Michael)
  Possum Holler,soft water,Jungbuket, cider bubbles, 30 qt boiler , pressure cooing ("Dave Burley")
  Seattle Brewpubs/breweries ("Mike Sharp")
  RE: dark wheat malt and asbestos in fridges (Thomas Rohner)
  Flying Beer (Jonathan Royce)
  Thin Beers (Jonathan Royce)
  RE: Masterbuilt SS Fryer (Jonathan Royce)
  Parti-gyle, no sparge and mashtuns (Eric)
  Beer gut/belly? ("Mike Maag")
  Insulation? I used to make insulation (also eat, sleep and breathe) ("john w")
  A bit more about Seattle Brewpubs/breweries... ("Mike Sharp")
  Cleaning soldered pipe ("Parker Dutro")
  Re: AHA Pub Discounts (Phil Sides Jr)
  Saflager lager lager... (Grant Family)
  madness of the neo-namecalling big-endians. ("-S")
  re: Pressure cooking ("-S")
  A little late with a few responses ("greg man")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:39:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net> Subject: Re: AHA Pub Discounts Yeah i've had the same problem. The AHA loves to pimp the fact that their pub program is so great but I find its more trouble than its worth. I've tried to use the pub program 3 times at 2 of the local Hops with no success. No one seems to be aware of the program, including management. Given the discount amount its not work wasting the whole evening worrying about it. I emailed the person in charge of the pub program and never even got a reply either so go figure. About all my AHA membership is worth is the magazine. Steven St.Laurent 403forbidden.net [580.2,181.4] Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 07:59:58 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: effect of water on attenuation "Dave" <brewingisloving at hotmail.com> writes.... "On these last three batches, my attenuation, using a known yeast, has gone from about 75 - 77% to an abysmal 64 - 66%. My ingredients have stayed the same, my yeast hasn't changed, and I have even been aerating more. Can the only inconstant source - the water - be causing this?" ************************************ Absolutely. But it's hard to be definitive unless you say more about your water. If I could hazard a guess, the new water you're using could be mucking up the pH of the mash you're used to brewing with. It's possible that due to an adjustment in pH (in either direction) that conversion would be slower, possibly giving you lower attenuation. If you have the ability to check pH of your mash, give it a whirl. Might be worth it. I spent a lot of time working with the water when I moved to NC, to make sure there wasn't anything funky going on. Checking everything for your first few batches with new water is really quite helpful. Hope everyone stepped up their daily intake in honor of July 4 and the beginning of American Beer Month. Ha ha. Cheers! Marc - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:02:30 -0400 From: "Steve B" <habenero92 at hotmail.com> Subject: AHA discount at Rock Bottom; Paulaner Brewery I had a similar experience the last time I visited a Rock Bottom (the one in Arlington, VA). I realized after I got home that my discount was only about 10%. At the time I did not want to make an issue out of it because I could not remember exactly what the discount was. I would agree that the restaurant/brewery is a bit misleading with the discount. Other places I have visited with with the card have not had a problem with taking the discount on the whole check. And as side question... I am heading to Munich in August and am trying to find information on visiting the Paulaner Brewery. I have tried the websites dot de and dot com, but no luck on finding solid information. Any one know if the brewery gives tours or allows visitors? S Vienna, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:27:15 -0500 From: "" <pedwards at iquest.net> Subject: Re: AHA pub discount program Dave Larsen writes about his experience with a Rock Bottom and his use of the AHA Pub discount card. RB sent me a VIP card for my AHA discount use. The accompanying info that came with the card I got from RB explicitly said it was for 20 percent off for the cardholder only, not for the entire party. Here in Indiana that only applies to food, not beer, due to state law. That said, my local RB gave my wife and I 20 percent off our entire food bill the last time we visited. But then, I'm a member of their mug club (no fee for that, BTW) as well. Whether they meant to apply 20 percent to the entire food bill or not, I didn't argue with them. --Paul E. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:36:35 -0400 From: "Jodie Davis" <JodieDavis at adelphia.net> Subject: RE: Too Much Beer When the homebrew starts piling up we throw a party! This weekend we had three couples over for a fish fry and went through two Tap-a-Drafts and a dozen or two bottles. (I also made margaritas. The original version and the nouveau simple syrup kind. The latter were preferred by this crowd.) One of the guys who came to the party is a dedicated Lite drinker. I was busy with the women and cooking most of the time and was surprised to find later on that he was filling his glass from the draft--by choice! He was amazed he liked it. One was a bitter and the other a nut brown ale. In my year of brewing this is not the first swill drinker who has found home brew enjoyable. See, there is hope! And I just have to brew some more ;) Jodie Davis Canton, Georgia Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:12:41 -0500 From: "Reddy, Pat" <Pat.Reddy at mavtech.cc> Subject: question from a new person -equipment & Brewery Name New person -equipment If you don't yet own a wort chiller you can build an immersion type (or buy one on eBay) for under $30. Brewery Name My HERMS system is almost operational and since my first passion is fly fishing the brewery's name is fishing related. I've dubbed my invention 'The Pocket Water Brewing Company'. What's pocket water? Ask a fly fisherman. :) Pat Reddy Controls Engineer MAVERICK Technologies pat.reddy at mavtech.cc Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:50:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com> Subject: Wheat Beer/ Low efficiency To all: I made a Dark American Wheat with some left over cracked wheat berries (unmalted) and Had a remarkably low efficiency. 4# Domestic 2-row pale 5# unmalted wheat (cracked) 1/2# Chocolate Malt .4 oz Perle (60 min) I figured I should expect 1.044, but eeked out 1.035. I simply added the wheat to the mash (150*F for 90 min). I usually get 70% eff. I thought wheat had a low gel. temp and didn't need to be boiled. Am i wrong? I did an iodine test and it came up good. Sparge went well (didn't stick at all). Even tasted the grain afterwards and it didn't have the least bit of sweetness! Any advice? Michael Columbia-MO ===== "May those who love us, love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if he doesn't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles So we'll know them by their limping." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:54:18 +0200 From: "Renato Bugge" <renato.bugge at fysel.ntnu.no> Subject: RE: Old Fridge Insulation I don't think your fridge is filled with Asbestos as it is usually only used as fire-proof insulation. My guess is glass or stone wool which is cheaper. Wear a 3M dust mask along with goggles for eye protection in case it is dusty (glass/stone dust is harmful). Be also cautios to not drill through the coolant lines, especially if the fridge contains ammonia (old fridges sometimes do) which is a very harmful gas. Hope this helps, Renato Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 10:33:50 -0400 From: mohrstrom at core.com Subject: Possible Mash Pot at Target No implied endorsement here, but I saw what looked to be an "enamelled" pot with a plated spigot already installed in the side. Looked to be ~12 quart capacity. Target had them half-off for $10, and available in a variety of festive colors. They are in with the "iScream" summer seasonal wares. Good Luck, and please post if it works for anyone ... Mark in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:39:30 -0500 From: Michael <grice at binc.net> Subject: Marbles... Robert Marshall wrote: >Another rather bizare option, taken from home winemaking, would be to >use a whole bunch of sterilized glass marbles. Just fill the carboy ever >so gently with the sterilized marbles and them rack the beer into the >bottle. Its a pain in the butt and runs the risk of glass chipping in >the carboy when the marbles hit the bottom, but it is an option. Not >knowing how much marbles cost, it might be just as cost effective to >buy the smaller carboy :-) Marbles work fine, although I haven't used them for beer. Chipping has not yet been a problem, although I had some problems with the marbles chipping when I was boiling them before use (well, I cooled them a bit quickly). I would recommend using flat marbles (available in the States at Wal-Mart in the crafts section as "Floral Gems"), since they don't roll around. I would also recommend minimizing their use, as a gallon's worth of marbles is going to be a real pain to add (and just forget about adding three gallons of beer to a five-gallon carboy :). An inch or two in a five-gallon or a three-gallon carboy is not a problem, though. Finally, they will splash when you added, which probably doesn't help (especially if you're adding a lot of marbles--it's less of a problem the fewer marbles you have to add). Here's where it would be nice to add a layer of carbon dioxide on top of the beer before adding the marbles. In general, I would try to fill each carboy as much as possible. With smaller batches, this means using smaller carboys and/or other jugs. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:56:10 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Possum Holler,soft water,Jungbuket, cider bubbles, 30 qt boiler , pressure cooing Brewsters: Sorry for the long post, just catching up after a long holiday/family reuinion. - ----------- Rich Schmittdiel calls his brewery Possum Holler Brewery. I grew up in Possum Holler in SE Ohio - really!. Brian's comments about his Dominon Day Celebration in a small Canadian town sounded an awful lot like a 4th of July in Possum Holler except we didn't have legal fireworks and were restricted to sparklers. That is until they made them illegal. 'Course there were some illegal Chinese firecrackers ( unroll the duds and read the paper there) which we had to keep quiet and rockets which we had to keep out of sight. - --------------- AlK's and AJ's comments about making beer from soft water reminds me that for some years ( decades?) I have been talking and writing ( here and elsewhere) about how good lager beers are made from RO water. Virtually mineral free water. They are superior to any made from treated or mineralized water. Guess they knew what they were doing at Pilzen. No question lagers from soft water are far superior, but also many of the other styles benefit.The mineral myth seems to have started in Britain, perhaps as a marketing thing. For those protestors, don't forget the brewing liquor doesn't have the same analysis as the local water - a point too often forgotten by hobby book writers and even professionals. And the brewing liquor doesn't have the same analysis as the beer. What is most important to taste is the beer mineral analysis. Brewery liquor does affect taste secondarily as it affects esp Ca and Mg and the concomitant enzymes reactivities and hop extraction is affected wort composition, both mineral and sugar content. I'd like to see a comparison of tastes versus beer mineral analysis. Try making any beer made from mineral free water, forget all this mash pH adjustment and such and you will be pleasantly surprised. - ---------------- Discussion of the digital nature of Jung bukey ( young bouquet, green smell/taste) of beer is interesting. I agree beer has a day-to-day ( rather than year to year - like wine) improvement in flavor and character. I suspect it due to the somewhat digital nature of our sensory abilities in which lower limits are set for any one of a number of reasons and when certain aromas ( diacetyl, etc) fall below that, we sense that it is "gone", while in fact its disappearance or appearance is a continuous thing and we just don't know it is still there. On the other end our abilities to detect relative concentrations above this limit is limited and at high concentrations we lose sensitivity over time. - -------------- Stu asks about cider bubbles after he brings it inside. Likely that was just the release of dissolved carbon dioxide after you moved it inside to a warmer temperature. In the case of the wild yeast it may be that the yeast didn't finish at the cooler temperatures. With the S. Bayanus you chose for your second fermentation it likely finished in two weeks. - ------------- Devon, a 30 qt ( 7.5 gallons) boiler will be fine if you make 5 gallons of beer as as you will need 7 gallons and head space for all grain. But this is awfully heavy ( about 60 lbs filled) , can damage the stove due to its weight and diameter and be dangerous to handle hot. Why not go to K-Mart and buy the set of Martha Stewart SS pots and lids ranging from something like 4 gallons, 3 gallons, etc.all in one box. I think it was marked $9.99. Not heavy duty or anything at all but it will last you a long time. I have a decades old set of similar quality kettles and they have served me well. Multiple kettles make it a faster boil as you will use more than one burner. - --------------- Travis, brown and fuzzy and fibrous sounds like mineral wool. A common insulation in the US some decades ago. I wouldn't worry about asbestos as various minerals and fluxes were melted and spun into a fiber as a precursor to fiberglass. Fiberglass is a more refined version. - ------------------ I agree with Chad that it is a good idea to boil the dukey ( time) out of your adjuncts but most pressure cooker manufactuers advise not to pressure cook starches, beans, peas, etc for fear of plugging the pressure relief valve. I concur with this as some years ago I spent some time scraping pressure cooked peas off the ceiling Even with my newer pressure cooker with three different relief points the advice is still the same. You can be lucky some of the time... You can raise the boiling point ( temperature) due to sugars and not have a sticky mess by adding some ( a pound or so) crushed malt to the adjuncts as you heat them up. This short boiler mash helps reduce burning and sticking. Eh Voila! Porridge! Now where is that cream and brown sugar..err. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 10:18:42 -0700 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: Seattle Brewpubs/breweries Dominick and Eric both mention the Elysian... Forgot about that one! Say, isn't Dick Cantwell the guy that was brewing at the Pike Brewery when Samuel Smiths bought out the Pike? I was wondering where he ended up. A lot of folks I talked to were ticked off that Samuel Smiths replaced him. I think he's a pretty darn good brewer. Mac and Jack's African Amber is my all-time favorite beer. Even though it's quite a drive from my end of the Sound, I should go up there some time...Do either of you know if they have a taproom? I thought it was a brewing-only operation. Also, I was surprised to see Eric mention the Market Cellar Winery and homebrew shop...I thought that place closed down a long time ago, back when the Pike turned the space into a pool room or something. Is it still in business? Regards, Mike (wanting a Mac N Jack's right NOW!) Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:18:36 +0200 From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch> Subject: RE: dark wheat malt and asbestos in fridges Hi Chris hi Travis there is such a thing as "dark wheat malt". It's used to brew a "Dunkelweizen" or dark wheat beer. I first drank one of these in Germany. I wasn't that much of a beer evaluator then, i just drank it. After i started to brew, i pay more attention to what i drink. In the hotel, where we stay when skiing, they sell a Erdinger dark wheat. I really like it, although it may not be the best in its style. I had a Schneider lately, which is not declared as a dark wheat. It's darker then the regular stuff that you find, and besides being very refreshing, it has a wonderful maltiness. So i started to brew my own wheats with dark wheat malts as well. If you just like to test it, start with half dark and half regular wheat malt.(for the wheat in your malt bill) By the way, we use only Weyermann malts. They are the easiest to get for us, besides being fine malts. They have lots of specials like smoked, caramelized and toasted to any extent. try http://www.weyermann.de these people are very helpful, if you ask them a question. Asbestos in the fridge It's possible that you have asbestos in your fridge. But as long you don't whirl those fibers around too much you should be o.k. The idea with the insulating foam sounds very good. As long as this stuff is bound to something (water, foam) it does no harm.(it doesn't get into your lungs) Happy brewing on the other side of the pond/globe Thomas in Switzerland Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:04:44 -0700 From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com> Subject: Flying Beer A bit more data to add to the question about flying beer. (I didn't see these mentioned yet, so I thought it prudent to comment.) 1) Minikegs fly well too. On a recent trip to Detroit, I carried a 5 liter keg of Marzen on Northwest without any trouble. The baggage screener got a little concerned when she saw my Philtap on the screen, but once I took it out and explained what it was, there was no objection. (Don't even try, BTW, to carry the CO2 cartridges as compressed gases are strictly prohibited in any luggage. I had Listermann ship a few to my friend in advance and then just carried the beer and tap with me.) 2) Some airlines have restrictions on volumes of beer. These are separate from the TSA rules. For example, Northwest allows a maximum of 5 liters of alcoholic beverages per passenger. (Although beer does not fit into their description of "alcoholic beverages", which contain between 24-70% ABV, I can imagine that an overzealous employee might still try to limit the volume carried, so I personally wouldn't push it.) Jonathan Woodbury Brewing Co. www.woodburybrewingco.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:15:33 -0700 From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com> Subject: Thin Beers In several of the beers that I've entered in competitions, I've received comments about the body being "thin", despite my efforts to maintain mash temps of about >155F. I've thought a lot about why this occurs and recently I've come up with this scenario: I do partial mashes and during the process the receiving kettle sits on my kitchen floor. I understand that many people start heating while sparging, but I can't do this without raising my mash tun up to the ceiling, so mine just sits and the hot wort tends to cool from mash temp to about 120F before I am done and the kettle gets moved up to the stove. My theory is that this peroid of cooling (which probably lasts about 30 minutes) allows the beta amylase to chew up some of the "body-making" dextrins that the 155-160F mash produced, thus resulting in a thinner beer. So what do people think about this theory? Is it reasonable? As far as I know, if it is reasonable, then my two options include: 1) a mash out and 2) heating the kettle while sparging. Since the 2 gallon cooler that I use can't hold much more water, a mash-out is probably not feasible, but I may be able to get creative with footstools and the like to get everything high enough that the kettle is on the stove. Any other options that people can think of? Thanks in advance, Jonathan Woodbury Brewing Co. www.woodburybrewingco.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:32:21 -0700 From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com> Subject: RE: Masterbuilt SS Fryer Devon Miller asked about Masterbuilt's 30 qt SS turkey fryer. Here's the manufacturer's site: http://www.masterbuilt.com/store/sms30bv.html Although I have not used it yet, I did recently purchase one of these on Ebay for about $75, shipped. Seems to be a decently built unit. The SS pot is a bit thinner than my old 20 qt pot from Linens'n'Things (see my website), but I think that with the switch from electic to gas I'll be able to avoid scorching. I posted a similar question on r.c.b. before I purchased mine--two people were using this setup and the only warning I got was that you have to be very careful about boilovers as 30qts is a bit tight for a 6 gallon boil. FWIW, most Walmarts sell this unit for $96, so if you want to make this an even better deal, it might be worth a trip to Wally-world. HTH, Jonathan Woodbury Brewing Co. www.woodburybrewingco.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:30:51 -0400 From: Eric <edahlber at rochester.rr.com> Subject: Parti-gyle, no sparge and mashtuns Hello, I recently brewed what I hope will be the last extract/partial mash batch for a while. I am assembling the necessary equip to switch to all grain -yeah! So, like most taking the plunge, I have a few questions. I was wondering if there were any parti-gyle brewers out there that had recipes/tips to share? I know a little about the process, but could use some help with recipe formulation and logical style pairings. I figure I might as well get several beers for the days efforts. I am leaning towards trying the 3 toe Barleywine and Full Moon Pale Ale found at Jeff Tonole's website. But was also wondering about darker beers like porters, stouts and browns since I tend to enjoy darker ales. If you have any good recipes or know of other sites to look for info, I'd really appreciate some feedback. I figure I'll only do 2 different beers for now because of limited equipment, but might try 3 in the future. I am also interested in the "no sparge" technique, and have read a good article in BYO and also the article on Ken Schwartz's web page. Because of limited equipment this seems like a good technique for me, less worry about tannins etc. Are there any other sources that are a "must read" for someone like me? Is anybody doing a combination of parti gyle and no sparge technique? Is a 10 gallon Gott big enough for your efforts? And on the subject of mashtuns - I have a 10 gallon Gott. I was considering a zymico kewler kit and a bazooka T screen. Is there any reason you might not go that route? Is that all that I need in the mashtun? Only 2 days till my crank and stein grainmill gets here :) Eric D. Rochester, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:51:34 -0400 From: "Mike Maag" <maagm at rica.net> Subject: Beer gut/belly? The man with no excessively large tag asks: "Also on the topic of too much beer, can I propose an adjunct to the survey on how much beer we drink by asking "Has homebrewing given you a beer gut/belly? And if not, why not (that is, do you work-out etc...)?" I drink 5 to 6 homebrews (6-7%) daily on weekdays, and 10 to 12 on weekends. My waist size is 32, and I can't even "pinch an inch". Homebrew, and beer in general, is not "fattening". It is the cheeseburgers, pizza, and other high-fat foods. 3 years ago my waist was 36. Then I got IBS and had to cut way down on fat. No cheese, cream, fatty red meat, egg yolks, butter, etc. I live on carbs and protein, and a little fat (mostly from salmon). Lots of grilled chicken breast, shrimp, fillet mignon (I don't deprive myself). Rice, potatoes, pasta...but no butter. The good news is, I found a great butter substitute "Smart Squeeze", tastes like butter but no fat. Soy cheese, soy milk on Crispix cereal...no fat. (also some veggies like green beans, peas, asparagus, etc.) and vitamins). Exercise? 30 push-ups (at once) every day or two, outdoor activities (flyfishing, bowhunting, mowing the lawn, Zen gardening). Age: 54. John Lennon was right, You are what you eat. Eat fat, get fat. Mike Maag, slimming in the Shenandoah Valley, VA. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:11:04 -0500 From: "john w" <j2saret at hotpop.com> Subject: Insulation? I used to make insulation (also eat, sleep and breathe) Travis fears for his health: >>> is it possible it could be asbestos or would it be some other material? It is brown and fuzzy and has little "hairs" in it.<<< It sounds to me like Balsem Wool a tree based product manufactured by Wood Conversion (later Con Wed) in Cloquet. My dad spent 30+ years there and I spent 3 miserable summers making the stuff. It went into car doors, attics and pobably appliances. The asbestos insulation manufactured there had more of a grey color and a sheet like cardboardy texture, the fibers were shorter and did not stick up above the sheets of insulation. John Duluth "Labor is prior to, and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labour and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital and deserves much the higher consideratiion." A. Lincoln (1st marxist er Republican president) "Labor is prior to, and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labour and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital and deserves much the higher consideratiion." A. Lincoln (1st marxist er Republican president) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:18:45 -0700 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: A bit more about Seattle Brewpubs/breweries... >Theres a new one in the SODO district, that I can't remember the name of. >Met the brewer at a club >meeting, and loved his beer. Darn, the alzheimers is killing me...I don't >remember which one of us has it. > Ah I remember the name now...it's the Pacific Crest Brewing Taproom... It's on East Marginal Way S. in Tukwila...so it's a bit farther South than the SODO district. But not much farther. Just south of Boeing Field. They have an adjoining Hole in the Wall Barbeque...pretty decent BBQ, if you ask me. The only BOP in the area (NW Brewwerks, in Kirkland) has one too. But there's some fabulous BBQ around the Seattle area, so it's pretty tough competition. Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:12:41 -0700 From: "Parker Dutro" <pacman at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: Cleaning soldered pipe I have to questions. First is can I clean a copper wort return manifold that has some lead-free soldered joints in Straight-A, PBW or even in vinegar, the way I would a coiled wort chiller before use? Second, I used some compression fittings to connect copper pipe to bulkhead fittings. When I soak some of my brass pieces in the recommended vinegar/peroxide mixture to remove surface lead, could copper be included without any reaction between the metals or chemicals? I clamped down the compression sleeves before cleaning them. It's probably not a big deal to have a couple sleeves un-treated when I brew but would feel better about the whole thing if I knew all the brass had been treated. Thanks for any input. Parker Dutro Portland, Oregon Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:17:54 -0400 From: Phil Sides Jr <altoidman at altoidman.com> Subject: Re: AHA Pub Discounts From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpumonkey at hotmail.com> >We try to argue that here they go going to all this trouble in participating >in the AHA Pub Discount program. You think 20% is a good deal so you check >it out, and afterwards you feel like you were tricked into going there. It >was misleading. They may have gotten and extra $2.50 that day, but I'll >likely never go there again. In essence it had the opposite effect that >they were trying to achieve. > > >The sad part is that if the card had said 10% discount and they gave me 10% >of the whole check, which would have come out to about the same actual >amount, I would not have had an issue. I would have thought that it was a >pretty good deal. > > >They guy definitely did not understand, and it was really not worth arguing >about, so we finally left. I have to admit, though, that it left a sour >taste in my mouth. > > >Has anybody else had any issues using their AHA Pub Discounts? First a disclaimer... I am a member of the AHA Board if Advisors, but my comments below are my own opinions and experiences, not an official response from the AHA. In the Washington, DC area we have two Rock Bottoms, Bethesda, MD (my local) and Arlington, VA. There is also the District Chophouse in DC. I do not recall using my card at the Chophouse yet, but I have at both the Rock Bottoms and actually do quite often at the Bethesda location. My first Pub Discount experience was a Saturday evening with my wife right after a homebrew club meeting. When I presented my card to the server with the check, the assistant general manager visited our table and introduced himself and gave me his business card. He thanked us for patronizing his establishment and said I was the first one who had taken advantage of the program. This was literally right at the time the PDP started. Anyhow he stayed and chatted with us for about fifteen minutes and asked me about the AHA and about the process and equipment needed to brew beer at home. I think he would have stayed even longer but he was called away to something needing his immediate attention. Not only did we receive the full 20% discount on food and beer, he offered to buy us another round. He also stated how he was looking forward to having homebrewers visit the restaurant and told me to present my card before ordering next time and they would hook me up with a mug club sized mug instead of a pint (an even bigger discount because you are still paying pint prices before the 20%). On subsequent visits, I did exactly that and they do indeed give me a mug 99% of the time. Occasionally a beer does show up in a dinky pint glass ;-). I have never had this kind of treatment at the Arlington Rock Bottom, but I have always been given my discount as expected and have at least as often as not been served a mug instead of a pint. On one Arlington visit they did not apply the discount to the food, only the beer, but in fairness the server made several mistakes and I chalked that up to new staff which is not an excuse, but an explanation. In November of 2002, I went to my local Rock Bottom in Bethesda on a Friday night with a party of a dozen or so celebratory and thirsty friends. We started in the bar for about 1.5 hours with beers, I think some wine, and mixed drinks (I only drank beer I swear). Then we moved to a table and had a relaxed paced dinner including a table full of shared appetizers and of course, many more libations. Now I don't remember exactly how much the bill was but I recall it was nearly $500 before the discount. I collected cash from everyone and presented it to the server with my card and I about fell off my chair when they applied a 20% discount to the entire bill. We gladly left the discount amount for a tip but that was a nice surprise and completely unexpected. I have told many, many folks about it since and have convinced at least two people to join the AHA in part due to my story of this experience. Now Dave's experience above was just plain bad and definitely reflects poorly on Rock Bottom; it is unfortunate. I guess my point though is, don't let that experience represent all of Rock Bottom for you, let alone the entire Pub Discount Program. I am sure that like any chain, some locations are better than others and in this case I know the management at my local Rock Bottom is directly responsible because I met one of them and he told me so. I will never think twice about recommending them because of that and I am sure that was his goal that Saturday when he visited our table and introduced himself. Realize too that the PDP is a national program and some of the participating pubs can't do exactly the same thing at every location due to the various jurisdiction's laws concerning the sale of alcohol. I know this definitely affects the discount that Hops offers from location to location. Also the participating pubs themselves determine what they want to offer as discounts; the AHA and/or AOB is not dictating that to them so some are going to be better than others. I know neither of these applies in Dave's case, but I did want to point out those facts for everyone. Phil Sides, Jr. Silver Spring, MD Need a good laugh today? Join Altoidman's Humor List - http://www.altoidman.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:22:06 +1000 From: Grant Family <grants at netspace.net.au> Subject: Saflager lager lager... g'day I'm making a simple lager using a (dry) Saflager-23 yeast. Its recommended temperature range is 48-59F which means lagering (say, at 45F) is "not recommended". One book I read suggested leaving it at the fermentation temperature for lagering, but are there any other options? In terms of keeping it cool (even though it's winter here), I thought I could put a sanitized frozen drink container in the brew. Would this impair the yeast at all given that I wouldn't be able to stir the "coldness" around? Does anyone have any other cooling techniques for lagering? Stuart Grant Hobart, Tasmania (home of the best beer in Australia - which means the best beer in the world...) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:18:46 -0400 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: madness of the neo-namecalling big-endians. It's 2+k off-topic - pgDn. now ! robin writes ... >I would just like to ask -S ... Then why post instead of email ? >[...] >I most certainly did NOT >describe the desire to retain the right to homebrew as neocon. In #4281Robin wrote of , "... endless long winded free market, neocon crud arriving in the digest day after day recently?". Apologies to Robin for an honest mistake *IF* I misidentified this mysterious thread, but I don't think I did. The political threads all related to Hbrewing rights. Which is the non-rights, voluminous, free market neocon crud thread, Robin ? Perhaps Robin misread my historical note about the late Sen.Moynihan as an anti-democratic party screed - it's not. Moynihan was one of the few recent national politicians to place reasoned positions over rationalized ones. When he decided ends were more important than means in taxing certain unpopular liberties he opened a Pandora's box. It has nothing to do with his ideology. Abridgements of rights under conservatives are equally despicable. >Mind you, anyone who can misdescribe a discussion about smoking in >public places as 'smoking...away from others', I guess not seeing >employees as people.... Robin is completely in the weeds here. My sentence was a rhetorical question about personal liberties having no party or ideology. <<"How is having a smoke(away from others), [or ..., or ... ] w/o gov't interference [...] an ideological position ?">>. That supporting liberties is NOT a political position, was clearly my point - nothing else. How could any sane person misread the context as 'public smoking' and also misread "away from others" to mean "near to employees" - the opposite ? The original paragraph ranks at under a 12th grade reading difficulty level. Shall I dumb it down to 6th grade level next time to make it less difficult ? >anyone who thinks that Bush's [...] police state -- >[..] equivalent to[...] Clinton [...] what >was it i said about neocon crud? Here AGAIN Robin uses the "neocon" label as an ad hominem argument when the term doesn't even apply. How is it a neoconservative POV to hold Bush at fault along with others ? Robin is just performing a name-calling exercise rather than producing a thoughtful argument again. I'll note that Robin is a recalcitrant Bigendian and leave it at that. Robin - why don't we take this offline ? -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:55:01 -0400 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: re: Pressure cooking I'm really please to see Chad Stevens posting such good info an a wide range of tech topics. > Incidently, amylopectin is where >you get your beta-limit dextrin from. If you're going for mouth feel, it's >best to boil the dukie out of the adjuncts. It's true, but I'm not so sure that the several percent amylopectin extraction diff between various cereal extraction methods makes a big difference to mouthfeel. The other mouthfeel factor, is that any raw grain is a potentially heavy source of gums and glucans which are variably extractable. I would expect more of these unfermentable carbs are extracted at higher temps. >pressure cookin' is the way to go. agreed. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:56:06 -0400 From: "greg man" <dropthebeer at hotmail.com> Subject: A little late with a few responses We have finally sifted through some of the long debates about words. I was beginning to think the name of the HBD had been changed, though I must admit to reading some of the arguments. Glad to see we are all talking about beer again. I'm a little late with a lot of posts so beer with me............................. Name of brewery (need help with the spelling, any German's in the house?) Swine Hound brewing. In German its not enough to call some one a pig or a dog. To insult you they use both. One of my best friends is and speaks German fluently. Anyway I though that would be a good name for my brewery. OG of my last few beers..........1.058 German wheat 1.070 Dubble 1.052 wit How much do you drink?......... Sometimes a beer after work, usually 2 or three on a Saturday night. Really depends, I may go a whole week without if I'm not in the mood. How to get rid of beer? Frankly I don't get this one. If your making 10 gal or more batches and brew twice a month than ok I understand. But most of us only brew one or two times a month. I think the majority also brew 5 gal batches correct? So why are you having trouble getting rid of beer? I can't make it fast enough for my friends and family, they love to drink it. Unless I get on a belgian kick which I've been on lately. Then perhaps its harder to persuade them that these are worthy drinks. If you have a few knowledgeable beer buddies then they will help you quaff the so called funky beers. Personally my beers get hoarded and stock piled. Some people have a wine cellar mines got beer in it. Then if someone comes over you can say "would you like something to drink?" ( with a smile on your face! ) If you can't get through your beer perhaps the better question is, are they coming out that bad? You may need to do some reading and learn to make a better brew. No offence meant dude. Return to table of contents
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