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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  You got mail (Thomas Rohner)
  False Bottom Perforation Size (Ken Cada)
  CO2 ("Haborak, Kevin")
  can't thank the Gump-Cone-Fischborne troika enough (Marc Sedam)
  Question for Dr. Cone 2003--mash hopping (Marc Sedam)
  Licorice Flavor ("H. Dowda")
  re: anti-foam (Michael Owings)
  HBD Prodigal Son ... sorta ("Gary Smith")
  Henry's law and DO ("Dave Burley")
  Promash settings & RIMS ("Gary Smith")
  RE: poisonous CO2 ("Drew Avis")
  re: unknown hops (Sean Carothers)


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*           The HBD Logo Store is now open!             *
*            http://www.hbd.org/store.html              *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*   Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *       IN  PROGRESS!       * * * * * * * *
*          Dr. Clayton Cone Fortnight of Yeast          *
*      8/11/03 - 8/22/03 Yeast Questions Answered       *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock (janitor@hbd.org)



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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:43:51 +0200
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: You got mail

Hi all
maybe you also saw the movie with Meg Ryan.
But it takes all the romance out of it, when you receive 300 mails,
that are virus generated. I saw it yesterday on our company mail and
i was happy that my private one wasn't the target yet. It changed.
I got 290 mails this morning.
The janitors at hbd.org must be pretty busy to clean this whole
bulls---.
I got about 5 from the HBD mail responder. As if the spam problem wasn't
enough, this starts to make email unusable as a communication media.

All the best and a spamfree homebrew   Thomas



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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 08:25:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Cada <kcada at cas.org>
Subject: False Bottom Perforation Size


   I've noticed that the sizes of the perforations in false bottoms
vary among 1/8" (Zapap), 3/32" (William's, Beer, Beer, & More Beer),
~5/64" (Listermann's Phalse Bottom), 1/16" (St. Pat's).  Has anyone
ever seen a study as to what effect changing perforation size has on
such things as vorlauf, sparge time, efficiency or (shudder) stuck
sparge?  I assume the higher the percentage open the better, hence
minimal solid space between holes seems desirable.

   I use a MALTMILL (fixed at 0.045"), if that's a factor.

   Thanks to all!  You've taught me a lot!

Ken Cada
Westerville, OH
E-mail: kcada at cas.org


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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 06:00:15 -0700
From: "Haborak, Kevin" <KHaborak at golder.com>
Subject: CO2

>>>I don't believe there would be a "rocket" flying around your brewery. CO2
is the gas used in many fire extinguishers so it's not poisonous

It is poisonous, actually even brething O2 can kill you given the proper
conditions, just as drinking to much water can lead to death.  You have to
take both of these examples to tremendous extreems for it to happen, but the
general gist is that anything is poisonous given the proper dosage.  

Kevin.


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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:11:03 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: can't thank the Gump-Cone-Fischborne troika enough

At first I had questions.  Then my questions had questions.  Then my 
grand-questions told the first set of questions to sit down and shut up. 
 Good god...I know NOTHING about fermentation science.

Thank you so much.  I find myself reading and re-reading the questions 
and answers repeatedly in hopes that something sinks in permanently.

Thanks Gump.  Oh...and I did figure out how to take out the valve on the 
Hoff-Stevens keg eventually.

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:31:34 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: Question for Dr. Cone 2003--mash hopping

Dr. Cone,

By virtue of a little experimentation, I stumbled across what may have 
been an older brewing process whereby the flavor and aroma hops are 
added to the MASH and not the copper.

The resulting flavor seems to be more "full" and "smooth" when compared 
to regularly hopped batches of the same type.  I also have seemed to 
notice that this phenomenon works best with soft water and/or with 
lighter beers.  It shines in lagers, bitters, and IPAs, but seems to do 
little for porters and stouts.

Do you know of anything in the literature which would suggest WHY this 
works?  The flavor is similar to "first wort hopping" (the rediscovered 
German technique of adding flavor/aroma charges to the warm wort).  Due 
to my observations on the water chemistry and beer styles, I'd suggest 
that pH may have a big role...but I am guessing.

Cheers!
marc

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:09:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Licorice Flavor

What is considered to be the most common source of
'licorice' off flavor?

Thanks



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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 08:46:02 -0500
From: Michael Owings <mikey at swampgas.com>
Subject: re: anti-foam

I'll second Brian's suggestion to try using less of this. Bearing in
mind that I use the stuff to prevent wort boil over, both when
actually brewing and when making starters, I have found that a few
drops is enough. For an 8-gallon starting boil volume, I use about 8
drops or so. Of course I don't really use it for keeping the head off
of a ferment, so YMMV. A drop or two in a 3 liter starter boiled in an
erlenmeyer flask completely stops boilover. I generally add it just as
the contents are coming to a boil.

In any case, it seems to have no effect on head retention of the
finished product. Pretty good stuff IMHO.

cheers -- m
====
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html


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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:35:27 -0500
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at ameritech.net>
Subject: HBD Prodigal Son ... sorta

HI all after a year of non posting,

1-2 years ago I was involved in building a RIMS system and many here were 
so helpful in getting it going & giving me ideas and support. I brewed two 
batches and then disappeared from the group. 

I took a fall injuring my hand and knee, had some relationship problems & a 
few other monkey wrenches including a downed computer & all this came at 
pretty much the same time. I stopped brewing after those two batches & 
haven't done anything brew related for the last year.

I'd planned on brewing in the basement last fall & brought the RIMS down 
there but since I didn't have a hood for ventilation I decided to not brew 
during the winter. I brought it out onto the back porch only 3 weeks ago and 
started brewing again. 

So let me express my apologies to any who wondered for the abrupt 
departure. 

Onto brewing :-} 

My first batch 15-16 days ago was an attempt at 10.5 gal of Fullers ESB 
clone. Since I tend to prefer hoppier beers I added just a bit more bittering 
than style would dictate. I had forgotten how well the RIMS works and it was 
wonderfully effortless and an incredibly clear run-off. Three days ago I made 
10.5 gal of an IPA and it too was so nice to make with the RIMS.

When I built the RIMS I bought an extra long  (22") ultra low watt density 
heater element for the chamber. I was able to get a custom length SS 
chamber from MovingBrews before he went out of the market so the 
chamber is about 8" longer than the MovingBrews standard size. I've got the 
element hooked up to 110V but think I would like to find a leg from the other 
side of the breaker box, add another Solid State Relay and connect it as 
220V just to accelerate the ramping times during mashing somewhat. It's a 
one tier RIMS with two mag drive pumps. I use SABCO kegs/false bottoms 
and use an Omega PID as controller. For heat efficiency I have the mash tun 
and sparge vessel insulated on the top, sides and bottom with metalized 
bubble wrap. The RIMS chamber is also wrapped with the metalized bubble 
wrap. All the Noprene hoses have foam insulation like used for A/C & hot 
water piping. 

When I sparge, the water is brought in through the RIMS chamber and the 
sparge temp is maintained. Throughout the mash the temp varys nothing 
greater than one degree from what it is set at.

Actually, the current ramp times aren't bad but the heating element is 
something like 82" straightened out and it's a 6,000 watt element. The 
manufacturer said with 110V it provides 1,400 watts. If I were to run the 
element at it's designed 6,000 watts with the extra long length, I don't see 
caramelization as a factor. Anything to reduce the brewing time is of course a 
help and the only slack time in this process for me is the ramp time.

Tomorrow I'm brewing a wheat beer, haven't decided on the complete bill yet 
but I have a starter of Wyeast 333 going right now. I need to use up what's 
left of my DWC from 1 1/2 years ago before it's too old.

Feels good to be back to brewing!

Cheers,

Gary
Highland, IN 



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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:54:45 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Henry's law and DO

Brewsters:

Jim Cairnes says that Henry's Law states that the partial pressure of oxygen
in the gas above a liquid ( AT EQUILIBRIUM - DRB) should be the same as in the
liquid.

To be perfectly correct, it is the ACTIVITY in both phases which are equal at
equilibrium according to Henry's Law.   This explains Jim's comments about
some of the extraneous factors which affect the activity and make the response
to partial pressure non-linear. But to a good approximation in normal
circumstances the approximation is workable. Membrane effects and such are not
in the purvue of Henry's Law, but are real problems.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley





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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:38:43 -0500
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at ameritech.net>
Subject: Promash settings & RIMS

Hi,

As I'd mentioned in my earlier post, I'm getting back to homebrewing. I have 
purchased Promash and wondered if anyone here with an efficient RIMS 
system has made particular System Setting changes to match their RIMS 
brewery. If so, I'd appreciate knowing which changes were made so I could 
incorporate them into my defaults.

If they're too extensive for you to want to type them in here, I'd be happy to 
phone call you when both of us could have the screens open to make the 
changes that way if that works you.

Cheers,

Gary Smith





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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:55:43 -0400
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: poisonous CO2

Ed Benckert sez: "Ever stick your head in your  fermenting bucket and take a
sniff of the beer, forgetting that theres a blanket of CO2 on it? I have.
Burns your sinuses out, tears your eyes up as you vision goes dark for a
second. "

Safety tip: you get the same effect if you happen to primary in a converted
chest freezer.  I recently fermented 10 gals of wheat ale, and noticed some
build-up of condensation at the bottom of the freezer.  Leaned in with a
cloth to clean it up and... got that burning sinus, tearing eyes, and
darkened vision for a second.  Quickly stood up with a vision of SWMBO
finding me, passed-out and possibly asphyxiated, head first in the open
chest freezer.

Be careful out there!

Drew Avis ~ Ottawa, Ontario
- --
http://www.strangebrew.ca



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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:15:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sean Carothers <seancarothers at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: unknown hops


I usually use the Hass webpage to I.D. different types
of hops:  
 
http://www.johnihaas.com/agronomy/varieties.htm?region_key=USA
 
On the left there is also a link for European and
Australian varieties.  It helps a lot if you can get a
leaf from the plant.  Also, keep in mind that there
are a few "ornamental" varieties of hops around.  
 
Sean 





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