HOMEBREW Digest #4340 Thu 04 September 2003

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  More haze ("-S")
  Scale in Carboy (rickdude02)
  Bleach cleaning copper, Dangerous? ("Sven Pfitt")
  Re: My First Brew (Jeff Renner)
  re: Fly (continuous) versus Batch Sparging ("the Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty")
  beer and kids ("Braam Greyling")
  Pints...quarts ("Mike Sharp")
  RE: How to get the correct volume and Sp. Gr.  batch sparge ("Leonard, Phil")
  Beer haze ("Chad Stevens")
  CO2 Levels (Colin Kaminski)
  Re: Ranco Thermistor? ("Angie and Reif Hammond")
  Fermentation & OJ ("Steve Laycock")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:00:21 -0400 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: More haze Correction .... >The authors appear to have >incubated unsupported barley enzymes on a specific substrate (like Hordein) I meant to write 'UNSEPARATED barley enzymes'. ========== Petr asks about his single decoction schedule & haze proteolysis. Yes, the brief mash-in 5' at 39C a and the decoction rise to 67+C will allow some proteolysis and I'd expect this is near at the upper bound of what a continental pils malt will take before going limp. I expect your beer would suffer in quality if you made that a 20-30 minute rest at 39C. Yes this procedure will reduce haze potential in general.. The decoction boil causes break formation so there should be less break formation and resultant IBU loss in the sweet wort boil. I can't explain why your decocted beers have less hop bitterness. Note that IBU measurement and extraction is always quite variable. The AA% numbers printed on a package of hops are an interesting historical note - given the rate of humulone loss in hops. Lagered beers lose a good bit of phenolic rough flavors and some IBUs in the weeks of lager storage. It's just my opinion, but I expect you'd get more of that subtle 'decoction flavor' if you boiled the thick decoction longer. Total 20' boil is short compared to a double or triple decoction schedule and so extending the single decoct boil time to 40-60 min may allow for more Maillard reaction product formation [or else add some of melanoidin malt and skip the messy decoction]. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 05:02:37 -0400 (GMT) From: rickdude02 at earthlink.net Subject: Scale in Carboy Jim asks about what seems to be a lime buildup in his carboy. It certainly could be a mineral scale, but unless you're in a very hard water area it's probably a protein haze. That appears a little brownish or beige. What I would do (and I do have a little experience in such matters<g>) is first give it a soak for an hour or so with a quality alkaline cleaner. I, of course, use Straight-A because I make the stuff. For a stiff soak that pre- cludes scrubbing, use about 3/4 cup for a 5-gallon carboy. If you want to use PBW, you could do the same (but it might take a little bit of a longer time for the soak<g>). If you use B-Brite, Beer Brite, or any of those other "off-brands" of cleanser, use at least a cup. Then dump and rinse thoroughly. Even if it is a mineral scale, you should do this because protein films are a bit more resistant to acid cleaners than alkaline ones. A light scale will actually come of with just white vinegar (undiluted). For a heavier scale you could use Lime-Away. (I'm assuming you're talking about the EcoLab product.) Use a dilution of 1 cup per 5-gallons and let it soak for another hour. You could do the same thing with phosphoric acid, of course-- but I don't know if your brew store carries that. Rick Theiner LOGIC, Inc. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:25:35 -0400 From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com> Subject: Bleach cleaning copper, Dangerous? I ran across this the other day, and was wondering about it. I've never cleaned my CFC with bleach, but was wondering about the effects of bleach on copper. "What JBM is trying to say is that if you use any bleach type agent to clean your copper, you will ruin your copper, and it will become soluble and dangerous levels of copper may end up present in your wort, which could cause kidney failure, and you might die." Has anyone ever heard of this? Since we use copper in our brewing systems I would have thought I would have read it somewhere in all the brewing books I have, but can't find reference to it at all. Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery http://thegimp.8k.com Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian "There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:49:33 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: My First Brew Kevin Wagner <kevin.wagner at watchmark.com> has further comments on his first brew: >I took 12 bottles to a party over the weekend for a few opinions. In >general, people commented on how mild it was, then asked for another! >Very positive responses. > >Which is funny, because when I drink it, there's something strange about >it that I can't quite put my finger on. I am assuming that you are familiar with the normal flavor profile of a German weizenbier? It has clove and banana flavors, and could be categorized as "something strange" by someone not familiar with it. On the other hand, 1.040 (it's normal to use three figures after the decimal point, even if the last one is a zero) is 20-25% lower in gravity than a typical German Weizenbier. >The kit was assembled by my local home brew shop >(http://www.cellar-homebrew.com) - 'Wheat Beer' with an Wyeast German >Ale XL-Smack pack. I let the pack swell to about double it's original >size and poured it directly into the primary. Those packs are supposed to be suitable for direct pitching into five gallons, so you didn't underpitch by huge amounts. You should have aerated the wort fully to encourage the yeast. You haven't told us where you are, but since you say that the Cellar Homebrew shop is local, I guess you must be in Seattle. My further advice is to get involved with a local club. Experienced brewers will be glad to taste your beer and make a more informed suggestion than I can 2000 miles away. There are lots of other benefits to being in a local club as well. Good luck in improving your beer, but it sounds like you've done pretty well for a first batch. I am leaving for two weeks in England to drink real ale, so I will be out of the loop for a while. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:50:32 -0500 From: "the Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty" <mikey at swampgas.com> Subject: re: Fly (continuous) versus Batch Sparging > Ok, so I might be wrong here but the last time I checked I thought that a > couple (2) pints was equal to a quart. I'm suspecting that you got some unit > confused and either meant to say either "after a couple cups ... might do a > quart" or "after a couple pints ... might do a half gallon. I meant ... um ... METRIC pints, yeah, that's the ticket. METRIC pints. Should have read : "a couple of cups, or a quart if I'm feeling patient. Or a couple of pints if I'm feeling stupid." Cheers -- tafkaks ==== Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web: http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:50:48 +0200 From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com> Subject: beer and kids Hi all, Some time ago there were a few discussions about beer and kids. Have a look at this link: http://www.draymans.com/Articles/kids.php Regards braam Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:25:36 -0700 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: Pints...quarts From: "the Artist Formerly Known as Kap'n Salty" <mikey at swampgas.com> >However, I find this step only takes me a few minutes at most, since >with my current lauter system I get (crystal) clear runnings after a >couple of pints (I might do a quart if I'm feeling patient, but it >really isn't necessary.) John Schnupp comments: "Ok, so I might be wrong here but the last time I checked I thought that a couple (2) pints was equal to a quart. " Hmmm....perhaps he meant he got clear runnings after *drinking* a couple o' pints? ;^) Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:43:29 -0500 From: "Leonard, Phil" <Phil.Leonard at dsionline.com> Subject: RE: How to get the correct volume and Sp. Gr. batch sparge Several have asked about the calculations for batch sparging. I've always used the one listed on this website: http://www.bayareamashers.org/BatchSparging.htm Philip [612 251.4 AR] Overland Park, KS Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:15:25 -0700 From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net> Subject: Beer haze Steve et al., The Budmillercoors protein haze problems were relayed to me by a long time friend who works at the AB plant in Van Nuys. He cited increased hordein levels from new malt cultivars passing to the wort as the primary problem and spoke as thought the problem is fairly pervasive. I know this is anecdotal, but it's the best I've got. Yes the paper I cited was a poor pick, but I ain't got nothin' better. Just to further obfuscate as Mr. Palmer would say, take a look at: www.regional.org.au/au/abts/1999/jones.htm Using malt made in a typical American malting and kilning regime, then mashed in a typical American commercial double mash process (the cooker mash with adjuncts sits at 113 for 10 min then ramps up to boil within 45 min while the main mash sits at 104 for 60 min) the soluble protein found in the wort was 43% from the preformed barley, 32% from the malting process, and 25% released during the mash. Now this schedule is a bit different from what we as home brewers typically use but I use this as an illustration of the fact that 1) all of the protein that finds its' way into the wort is not from the malting process and 2) the generally accepted idea that proteolytic activity is minimal during the mashing process because the proteases are denatured during the modern kilning process is incorrect. So if in the neighborhood of 25% of the soluble protein found in your wort is solubilized during the mash, why not tailor that solubilization to a profile that is beneficial to clarity and head retention? And by no means am I suggesting 30 min at 122 to make an English MIld or Pete's Wicked clone. Just dip "into the protein range" for a few minutes if using any adjuncts, that's all. Chad Stevens San Diego Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:37:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Colin Kaminski <colinholo at yahoo.com> Subject: CO2 Levels Is there a cheap way to measure the CO2 levels of a beer? I don't really want to purchase a Zahm-Nagel but would like to get a better handle on the CO2 levels of my force carbonated beers. Thank you for any help, Colin Kaminski Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:28:32 -0400 From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Ranco Thermistor? I have spare unused Ranco Thermistor sensors. If interested, please contact me directly. Reif Hammond Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:06:23 -0700 From: "Steve Laycock" <slaycock at discoverynet.com> Subject: Fermentation & OJ I have a "hard orange drink" that I am in the process of fermenting. After a primary fermentation of: 2.5# DME (2# Muntons, .5# Laaglander), 2# Honey, 2# Corn Sugar in 5.5 gal batch energized by 2 hydrated packets of Muntons? Dry Yeast (ale yeast)... I then transferred 1/2 of the wort on 3 cans of lemonade concentrate and the other half onto 1/2 gal (just under) of "Tropicana no pulp orange juice (not frozen concentrate). What I am observing is a very very slow ferment in the orange drink. The lemonade half is fermenting well. Ferment temp is a bit high now at 73.5F. The orange container "claims" that there is no preservatives or additives. I'm wondering if that is correct, and if the orange itself is inhibiting the fermentation due to some lack of nutrients or too much acid? I transferred from primary onto the "juices" 4 days ago, and everything smells just fine. Any ideas would be interesting. Thanks, Steve Highwater Brew Haus Pleasant Hill Mo. Return to table of contents
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