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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Stokes Law ("Doug Hurst")
  Re sweet brew ("Charles Gee")
  OT : zero calories and other dirty tricks (Alan McKay)
  Re: Which temprature should I read off stick-on thermometer (Travis Dahl KE4VYZ)
  Anorthocite and Stone Ale? (darrell.leavitt)
  NCHF 03 (DAWNE TRENT & DAVID BRATTSTROM)
  RE: Claifying with Head Pressure (Jonathan Royce)
  Listermann's ("3rbecks")


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JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock (janitor@hbd.org)



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Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:30:21 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <dougbeer2000 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Stokes Law

FLJohnson pointed out how Stokes law indicates that a fermenter under 
pressure will not sediment faster than normal.

Here's the equation for anyone who's interested:

         D^2 (Sa - Sb) G
V=     _____________

               18u

Where:
  V = Settling Velocity
  D = Particle Diameter
  Sa = Density of Particle
  Sb = Density of Medium
  G = Gravitational Acceleration
  u = Viscosity Coeficient


Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[197.5, 264.8] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:29:07 -0700
From: "Charles Gee" <cgee at mhtv.ca>
Subject: Re sweet brew

Congratulations to our Janitor  and I hope that not too many nights are
lacking in sleep.

Many thanks to all for the suggestions as to how to sweeten my brew. Lactose
is on the way so I will have in due course "A Black Herbed Milk Braggot" and
I have no doubt that it will prove to be just to my liking.

Where on earth am I? I live on Haida Gwaii aka The Queen Charlotte Islands
which explains why I am a simple brewer using cans of extract because that
is all I can get here! I drool at the fancy malts and elaborate recipes
knowing full well that dreams is all they will be for this brewer.

Charles Gee Masset British Columbia cgee at mhtv.ca



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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:06:27 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: OT : zero calories and other dirty tricks

Steve explains how Splenda is able to get away with calling itself
0 calorie - how it's all a matter of how you definte the serving size.
My favorite dirty trick in this area is Pam cooking spray.  In recent
years it has had "Fat Free" emblazended on the side.  It is interesting
how a big can of fat can be fat-free - another dirty trick.

Here in Canada the rules are similar - if a serving size has less 
than a certain amount of fat, then you can call it fat free.  On the
Pam you can read that a serving size is a 0.6 second spray!  WHAT!!!

Pretty dirty if you ask me.

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
TCP/IP: telecommunication protocol for imbibing pilsners
        (Man-page of Unix-to-Unix beer protocol on Debian/GNU Linux)


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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:48:12 -0400
From: Travis Dahl KE4VYZ <dahlt at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Which temprature should I read off stick-on thermometer

    According to at least one of my stick on thermometers, you should read 
the green temperature.  It's kind of odd that some of the other stick ons 
don't have that instruction, but they all seem to be in the same green 
range at the same time.

 -Travis
[1.8, 98.3] Apparent Rennerian
A.K.A. Ann Arbor, MI, USA

>Hi Everyone,
>
>Iv'e been brewing for about 5 years on and off now, and just discovered
>this list! Already I have soaked up a lot of new info....Just started
>doing partial mashes, and used a liquid yeast for the first time in my
>last brew. (A porter)  It sure tasted good at bottling time...
>
>Anyway, I have one of those stick on thermometers on the side of my
>primary fermenter, and I was wondering what colour is the actual real
>measure of the temprature. Mine varied from 22 degrees c to 26 degree c,
>22 was a dark blue colour, 24 as a light green and 26 was an amber
>colour. Sorry about the metric, I live in Australia! I certainly hope
>the beer didn't ferment at 26, but it did taste ok anyway at bottling.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rusty.





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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:09:27 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Anorthocite and Stone Ale?


I have been planning a Stone Ale, and wonder if others on the list have 
any experience with using Anorthocite as the stone to be heated? I have 
been advised that it can take high temperatures (up to 1400 C !)...

Also, if one of the janitors sees this: I think that my server was burping 
and I may have been un-subbed...can this be corrected?


Happy Brewing!

 ..Darrell



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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:17:00 -0700
From: DAWNE TRENT & DAVID BRATTSTROM <davidb at cdepot.net>
Subject: NCHF 03

The Northern California Hombrewers Festival is just one week away. If you
are in the Northern California area and you want to hang out with 250 fellow
homebrewers come join us Friday & Saturday Oct 3&4. Information can be found
at www.nchfinfo.org
HBD long time contributor John Palmer will be speaking on Water Chemistry,
and Alan Sprits (Hair of the Dog founder) will be talking about Hair of the
Dog production of big beers and what ever comes out of his head.
- -- 
David Brattstrom



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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:22:02 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: RE: Claifying with Head Pressure

A bit more on the topic of pressurizing a vessel to improve clarification:

Spencer, Nate & Steve ("-S") all have suggested that decreased bubble formation 
will improve clarification (nothing to act like a buoy for particles) and I 
like this explanation. I hadn't considered the effect of CO2 coming out of 
solution, but it's definitely a valid concern.

Marc Sedam suggests that the increased kinetic energy might be a factor, thus 
increasing the probability of a protein-protein interaction. Along the same 
lines as Steve's thoughts on a shift in pH caused by CO2, I can't eliminate 
this as a possibility, but I doubt this is the major factor at play (if one is 
at play at all).

John Varady suggests that before equilibrium is reached, the differential in 
CO2 concentration between the surface of the liquid and the bottom of the tank 
will "set up a current flowing from the top of the tank to the bottom." 
However, this is absolutely not the case. This is because while there is a 
diffusive flow of solubilized CO2 from the top to bottom, there is no 
convective flow that could entrain particles and help them settle.

Finally, Chad Stevens continues to suggest that the particles compress under 
pressure and fall faster. I still stand by my assertion that they are not 
compressible and therefore that this does not occur. Proteins are not ballons 
with an entrapped compressible fluid inside. Under 2 atm pressure there should 
be no real change in their size or shape. 

Chad further says that he likes Spencer's reasoning, but continues with a lot 
of stuff that's mostly incorrect, most of all that fermented beer 
is "supersaturated" with CO2. Supersaturation is an event that occurs when a 
solute (CO2) is dissolved in concentrations higher than its solubility limit. 
It requires all kinds of special conditions, most importantly the absence of 
nucleation sites which are the starting point for dissolution (or 
crystallization in the case of a solid solute). Clearly these conditions do not 
exist in a fermenter. "Saturation" is what occurs when a tank is pressurized 
with CO2--its a state of equilibrium between the gas phase and liquid phase of 
a system. This is the case of a pressurized bright tank (or carboy in our case).

Anyway, as I have access to turbidity meters at work, I may bring some samples 
in of my next brew and do a controlled experiment to check this assertion that 
head pressure improves clarification. My thought is to take two PET bottles of 
beer and equip one with a carbonator cap. I'll then pressurize the carbonator 
bottle and draw samples from both daily to measure the turbidity over a period 
of a week or so. Sound reasonable? I'll report back with results. Any comments 
on the experimental setup are welcome.

Happy brewing,
Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com


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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:26:46 -0500
From: "3rbecks" <3rbecks at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Listermann's

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but...

As much as I tend to complain about cutomer service in all aspects of my
life, I figured that I should take the time to relate a truly excellent
experience that I had today with Listermann in Cinncinati. I have a Phil's
counter pressure bottle filler that is 5 or 6 years old. While bottling
today, a plastic piece inside the 3-way valve broke and I called Listermann
to try and figure out how I could jerry rig it back together in order to
finish bottling and to hold me over until I could get another one. They
volunteered to send me a new valve piece as their products are guaranteed
for life. They apologized and took my name and address; didn't need a
receipt or a date of purchase or anything.
I just wanted to pass my wonderful experience with Listermann's on to
everyone.

Rob Beck
Kansas City




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