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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re:Why I stopped Brewing: ("Jason")
  Why Tim stopped brewing (Leo Vitt)
  Homebrew Classics... ("Mike Dixon")
  Great Extract.  Was Why I Stopped Brewing ("Houseman, David L")
  Brewing costs (Ed Jones)
  Homebrew Classics (Brad McMahon)
  RE: G Fix Sanitation Test ("Steve Jones")
  Beer in Philly area (john biggins)
  toasting crystal ("Andy and Tina Bailey")
  Re: Why I stopped Brewing: (Scott Alfter)
  Re: Why I Stopped Brewing (Donald Hellen)
  Re ("Michael O'Donnell")
  RE: Why I stopped Brewing: (Tim & Cindy Howe)
  Rehydrating dry yeast?? ("jim")
  Brown Malt & "Old British Beers and How Make Them (Ted Enright)
  RE: Homebrew Classics... (Jim Wilson)
  water experiment ("Jeff & Ellen")


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Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:12:09 -0600
From: "Jason" <jhayes75 at cox.net>
Subject: Re:Why I stopped Brewing:

Tim

	The only extract brews that I have brewed are from kits. I currently do all
grain brewing. Homebrewing in my opinion is not about how much it cost. It
is about the art of being able to brew your own. I belong to a local
homebrew club out of Mandeville La. www.mkob.com in witch many of them
extract brew. These are very good beers. Some of them I have to ask if they
are extract or all grain. If you would like, visit are website. You could
find some recipes that you might like to try. Hopefully it can spark some
interest back for you.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:28:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Leo Vitt <leo_vitt at yahoo.com>
Subject: Why Tim stopped brewing

Tim, you are not the first person I have heard say he stopped brewing
because good micro brewed beer became easy to buy.  If lack of
availability of beer you like is the only reason to brew, then I can
understand you decision.

A reason I kept brewing after good beer became more available  - I also
enjoy serving someone a beer and saying I made this.  That is true of
many home cooked  foods.

Tim compared the cost of an extract batch to 2 cases of micro beer.  
Don't forget some of the imported beers and the cost of importing.
Some of the great Belgian ales you can buy for about $5.00 a bottle.
I have tasted some homemade versions that were comparable.  Yes, they
were all grain beers.  That is comparing $25 of ingredients plus labor
to $240.

Tim also asked about extract beers that were on par with micros.
The most recent extract batch I made was a kit a store had put
together.
It was an imitation of Sierra Nevada.  I was pleased with how it came
out and I took it to a wedding.  The keg was nearly emptied.  There
were another 8 kegs of home brew there from other brewers.  

Tim also asked about the comparison of dry yeast to liquid yeast
qualities.  Liquid yeast remains at about the quality it was several
years ago.  However, dry yeast has improved.  There are some brands
available that are quite good.  The selection is more limited than
liquids.  Dry yeast are usually more common ale types, suitable for 
English and American style ales.  Liquid yeast supplies can provide
Belgian yeasts, weizens, lagers, and there must be more interesting
ones.







=====
Leo Vitt
Sidney, NE



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Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:51:00 -0500
From: "Mike Dixon" <mpdixon at ipass.net>
Subject: Homebrew Classics... 


> From: Michael <grice at binc.net>
> What with the talk about "Old British Beers and How to Brew Them,"
> I noticed there are also two books in the Homebrew Classics series
> by Clive La Pensee & Roger Protz ("Stout and Porter" and "India Pale
> Ale"). Has anybody out there read these? I'm curious as to how they
> compare to the Classic Beer Style Series.

I have all the books mentioned.  First, the recipes in Old British Beers
have changed since the previous version.  So some of the recipes in the
older version are not in the current version.  The current version has more
recipes that the previous, but I would suggest you try to search out a copy
of the older version if you like brewing historical recipes.

As far as the CAMRA books.  The AHA series does not have a separate book for
IPA's, it is in with Pale Ale in #1 and #16.  The CAMRA IPA book has many
historical recipes and is pretty interesting.  The AHA Porter book #5 is one
I enojed, the Stout book #10 not so much. In the CAMRA Stout and Porter
book, my main complaint is the OG of the historical recipes in absent in
several recipes.  While I understand the reasons why, I am on recipe 6
before I am given a target to shoot for, a little more guidance would be
helpful.

Anyway, I suggest you get all the books if you like historical recipes and
are interested in the styles.  I was sent them by a friend in the UK, but I
have ordered from Beer Inn Print, and Paul worked with me to make sure the
order went smoothly.  The books from BIP got held for awhile after they
entered the US, but that was no fault of Paul.

Cheers,
Mike Dixon
Wake Forest, NC
http://www.ipass.net/mpdixon





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Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 08:06:10 -0500 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Great Extract.  Was Why I Stopped Brewing

Tim,

I've been an all-grain brewer for many years but still occasionally do an
extract brew when I'm in a hurry for beer for a party or something.  Using
DME, full boil, quality yeast, aeration and the cooling and sanitation
techniques developed over the years, I have made extract beers that will
compete with any beer and some that have won 1st places at competitions.  I
personally think you want to use the lightest DME and steep whatever
specialty malts are needed to style.  We probably couldn't do this for all
the styles with the same results but for many you can make excellent extract
beer.

David Houseman 


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 05:23:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Ed Jones <cuisinartoh at yahoo.com>
Subject: Brewing costs

Tim wrote:

"During the period of about 7-10 years ago, I took up
brewing; brewed several batches from extract; and then
did some partial mash (which consisted only of
steeping grains in water before the boil).  I was
never all that satisfied with the results.  I did not
produce anything near as good as I had hoped.  Then,
during that time period (1993-1996), great microbrews
became available at about $5-$6 per six-pack (which
is just about what it cost me to do an extract
homebrew.)  So at that point, why bother.  So I
stopped and became a microbrew enthusiast (still am).

I know going all-grain would have produced much better
results.  I am now thinking about doing a couple more
batches to see if my interest perks up.  But the cost
to produce 2 cases from an extract kit is approx.
$30-$50.  At that price, you can buy 2 cases of many
fine microbrews and enjoy all the taste with no labor.

My main question:  Can anyone relate an experience
brewing an extract that produced great results?  I
do not mean superior, like I would expect from an
all-grain brew; but decent enough that it compares
favorably to a store-bought microbrew?  If so, what
did you use?

Also, the great debate over yeast in HBD during the
93-96 period was that liquid yeast (Wyeast) produced a
better product.  Any change in that opinion?"

Personally, I don't think about brewing as a means of economy. Quite
the contrary actually. It costs me far more per unit to brew my own
than if I purchased it (except for the occassional wacky brew I do). I
brew for the enjoyment, the learning, and the opportunity to tinker
with equipment. I really have no interest in learning the little
details like some do on this board. I'm quite content to utilize their
results to help me produce good beers.

As for good extract brews. Nope, I was never able to make anything
great. That's why I jumped to all-grain after about 5 extract beers.
I've never looked back. My friends would much rather drink my beer than
what they buy in the store. I still buy interesting microbrews, but I'd
rather drink my own too. 

As for liquid vs dry yeast, for me the biggest reason to use liquid is
the variety. There just isn't the dry yeast variety available to me. 

Give all-grain a go. It doesn't have to be expensive if you don't try
automate everything. But if cost per unit is important, you might want
to consider a new hobby :-)

Good luck!
Ed

=====
Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian

"When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment,
I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am
confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery."
  - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:25:13 +1030
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Homebrew Classics


> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:58:07 -0600
> From: Michael <grice at binc.net>
> Subject: ...
>
> What with the talk about "Old British Beers and How to Brew Them,"
> I noticed there are also two books in the Homebrew Classics series
> by Clive La Pensee & Roger Protz ("Stout and Porter" and "India Pale
> Ale"). Has anybody out there read these? I'm curious as to how they
> compare to the Classic Beer Style Series.

I have both these books. Now, where to begin?

They are very interesting reads if you like to read about the history of these 
beers. Protz and La Pensee have done their research very well.
Both books are laid out the same way, divided. There are a few chapters by 
Protz on his research followed by the majority of the book written by La 
Pensee including the practical side of the book.
 Unfortunately, Protz's chapters are direct reprints from some of his earlier 
books such as "The Ale Trail".
La Pensee is a very interesting writer. I have read some of his earlier works
as well and these books are no different. He certainly is not orthodox but he 
has done some very interesting research on these beer styles.

La Pensee quietly attacks his co-author's opinions on a couple of occasions 
which is a sign of sloppy or non-existant CAMRA editing. 

He has a hatred of any beer made after about 1870. 
His chapter on 20th and 21st century porter and stout is subtitled "The 
Excuses" and he urges those that wishes to brew such beers to buy
either Ray Daniels' Designing Great Beers or a Graham Wheeler homebrewing 
book!

If you wish to study 17th to 19th century British brewing techniques it is a 
great read. La Pensee has also translated old brewing records to produce 
recipes scaled for the homebrewer - 25L 23L 5 UK Gallon and 5 US Gallon 
levels.

Most of these recipes are of academic interest only. No-one is actually sure 
about how the different malts, yeast and hops performed - they certainly
are different to 20/21st century ingredients; so how close these recipes
come out is purely conjecture. 
La Pensee has done his best - but he is unclear in the book how many of these 
"recipes" he has actually tried.
You can certainly understand how British brewers had to store these beers for 
up to a year before sale - IPAs of OG 1065, that have 12oz of 4.5% AA hops in 
the boil would be reasonably unpalatable to me for quite some time. Yet most
of the recipes are of this type - high gravity and very high hopping rates 
that require many months before they are ready.
The books really do generate a lot of discussion about how these beers
actually were as these beers are beyond living memory and contemporary tasting 
notes are thin on the ground. 
Though, I will say that La Pensee's enthusiasm for these beers is refreshing.

I feel that CAMRA should advertise that these books are for "historical"
beers.  People buying the book expecting to make Deuchars IPA
or Guinness Draught may get a rude shock. 

So, the books are great for experimenters and brewing historians but to
those looking to learn how to emulate current examples of these styles,
these books each offer only a couple of recipes that you might want to work
with.

Hope this helps with your decision.

Cheers!

Brad McMahon
Aldgate, South Australia












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Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:46:15 -0500
From: "Steve Jones" <stjones1 at chartertn.net>
Subject: RE: G Fix Sanitation Test

The last time I saw this in print I created a copy for my
web site
(http://hbd.org/franklin/public_html/docs/sanitation.html).
Here it is, from 'An Analysis of Brewing Techniques', By
George Fix, page 92:

- -------------------------------------------------
The only equipment required is a sealable jar (canning jar,
baby food jar), your nows, tongue, and a calendar. As you
are filling your fermentor, before piching divert a little
wort into a sanitized jar, seal, and store in a warm place
(.5L & 86F are suggested). Check it a couple times a day
until you see signs of infection (cloudiness, surface
growth, bulging lid). The time to infection evaluation is:

< 24 hours     serious trouble - toss your beer and review
sanitation procedures.
24-48 hours   less serious, but unacceptable sanitation.
Expect some off flavors
48-72 hours   beer will not be affected, but better
sanitation is called for.
> 72 hours     the desired situation

The nice thing about this simple test is that it's easy to
smell and taste the very same infections that are likely to
appear in your beer. If you have a microscope it's a great
opportunity to ID the organisms present.
- -------------------------------------------------

Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN [421.8, 168.5] AR
http://hbd.org/franklin




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Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 09:02:09 -0800
From: john biggins <bignz at mac.com>
Subject: Beer in Philly area

Hey guys...just moved to Newark, DE and was wondering 
what the good places to get beer, particularly micros & brewpubs.
  Note:  I already know plenty about the major places like Dogfish Head
, Victory, etc.  Specifically, I do not know anything about the Philly beer
 scene except for Monk's Cafe.  Would also like to know any good places
 within a few hours drive that may be worth the trip into PA, MD, VA, etc.

And why hasn't that Beer Philiadelphia website not been updated in over 
a year.  They're advertizing Split Thy Skull 2002!  If there is another 
comprehensive site detailing local beer events, I'd appreciate the word.

Private email okay.  To spam blocked:  jbbiggins-at-comcast-dot-net

Thanks

 -john
bignz at mac.com


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Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:46:40 -0800
From: "Andy and Tina Bailey" <atmlobailey at cox.net>
Subject: toasting crystal

This may be a stupid question but I'll ask anyway. The talk of making your
own brown malt got me thinking, has anyone tried to darken up a fairly pale
crystal in their oven, or just experimented with toasting the crystal in the
oven to see what would come out? If anyone has what was it like. What beer
did you put it in, and what was the effect? Was it the same thing as just
buying darker crystal, or was it a flop or what. Finally if you did do it
successfully, how?

Curious in Vegas...

Andy



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Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:57:41 -0800
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Re: Why I stopped Brewing:

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:56:51 -0800 (PST), Tim Spencer <spencer_tim at yahoo.com>
wrote:
> During the period of about 7-10 years ago, I took up
> brewing; brewed several batches from extract; and then
> did some partial mash (which consisted only of
> steeping grains in water before the boil).  I was
> never all that satisfied with the results.  I did not
> produce anything near as good as I had hoped.  Then,
> during that time period (1993-1996), great microbrews
> became available at about $5-$6 per six-pack (which
> is just about what it cost me to do an extract
> homebrew.)  So at that point, why bother.  So I
> stopped and became a microbrew enthusiast (still am).
> 
> I know going all-grain would have produced much better
> results.  I am now thinking about doing a couple more
> batches to see if my interest perks up.  But the cost
> to produce 2 cases from an extract kit is approx.
> $30-$50.  At that price, you can buy 2 cases of many
> fine microbrews and enjoy all the taste with no labor.

If you're paying $50 to do a 5-gallon extract batch, you're getting ripped
off.  The local homebrew shop where I've bought ingredients so far is not
exactly the cheapest place to get stuff, but I would be hard-pressed to
spend more than $35 on a batch (including a tube of whatever White Labs
yeast is appropriate for the style).  Several of their starter kits are
closer to $20-$25.  I suspect that an online shop like Beer, Beer & More
Beer would be cheaper still while maintaining the same or better
quality...I've not ordered from them yet, but several local brewers get all
their stuff there.  If you do all-grain, your cost will go down a bit
because it's considerably cheaper for the maltster to make and ship malted
grain than to make and ship malt extract.

As for not caring much for the stuff you made 7-10 years ago, my father said
pretty much the same thing about his brews (he homebrewed on-and-off from
the early '70s to the mid-'90s).  I have his equipment now (and have
bought/built additional gear as needed), and he's said I'm doing quite a bit
better at it than he did.  I don't think I'm doing anything that he couldn't
have done...it's just that the ingredients available now are better than
what you used to be able to get.

On all-grain vs. extract or partial mash, the improvement in ingredients
will allow you to make very good beer with extract and some steeping grains. 
In a recent club-only competition, I entered four beers.  One was from my
first all-grain batch; the rest were extract-and-steeping-grain recipes. 
While the all-grain beer took 1st in its category and was a contender for
best-of-show, the extract beers all took 2nd or 3rd in their categories.

As for economic justification...keep in mind it's a hobby.  If you like
making your own beer, you won't care too much about the cost as long as it's
reasonable.  If you view the process as more work than fun, though, you're
probably better off snagging a case of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (or whatever
it is that you like) from the liquor store than spending several hours of
active time and a few weeks of waiting trying to clone it.  Beyond that, it
comes down to a matter of preference.  I happen to like homebrewing--not
just the result, but the process.  It takes a while to make a batch
(especially if it's all-grain...that'll take all day), but I think it's
worth it.  This is very much a case of "your mileage may vary."

  _/_   Scott Alfter ($firstname at $lastname.us)
 / v \  http://alfter.us/
(IIGS(  Southern Nevada Ale Fermenters Union - http://snafu.alfter.us/
 \_^_/  Beer and Loafing in Las Vegas - http://www.beerandloafing.org/



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Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:07:53 -0500
From: Donald Hellen <donhellen at horizonview.net>
Subject: Re: Why I Stopped Brewing

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 00:14:19 -0500, Tim Spencer wrote:

> know going all-grain would have produced much better
>results.  I am now thinking about doing a couple more
>batches to see if my interest perks up.  But the cost
>to produce 2 cases from an extract kit is approx.
>$30-$50.  At that price, you can buy 2 cases of many
>fine microbrews and enjoy all the taste with no labor.

I've seen some extract kits in a large supermarket that had
a can of ME, specialty grains, caps, yeast, and priming
sugar for $15-$20. A low-priced homebrew shop should be able
to do the same. These kits produced excellent beer, as I've
tried a few, like an American Pale Ale, and it was
everything I would have expected in a micro-brewed beer.

>
>My main question:  Can anyone relate an experience
>brewing an extract that produced great results?  I
>do not mean superior, like I would expect from an
>all-grain brew; but decent enough that it compares
>favorably to a store-bought microbrew?  If so, what
>did you use?

See my previous paragraph. I bought those kits from Jungle
Jim's grocery in Cincinnati, Ohio. 

My very first beers were extract, and I still make one from
time to time because of the simplicity of it all and the
time savings, but it costs more, of course, about twice as
much or more than all-grain brewed beers. 

My very first was a Guinness clone, and it tasted just like
Guinness! That was about 13 years ago and I bought my kit
from Sebastian Homebrew Supply (out of business now???). I
also made an American light ale (very good also) and some
sort of German red beer (also very good). 

My favorite supplier for extract kits is
http://www.ebrew.com/

They do a good job putting together a kit! They also have a
very good selection. My best beer made from one of their
kits was a Russian imperial stout, and it won a silver award
in a national competition about 12 years ago. It was
fabulous.

I've made that style a few times with extract, and a few
times with grain only. I've never had one that didn't taste
fabulous. Of course, if you don't like dark beers, you
probably wouldn't like this style.

If you are trying to make an American Lager, you need a good
lager yeast, good temperature control, and a good procedure.
I've done very well with an older refrigerator with a Ranco
temperature controller (since the fridge control won't allow
you to go much above 40 degrees F). If you don't ferment it
around 45-50 deg. F and raise it for a diacetyl rest to
about 65 degrees for about 3 days, then drop it down 5 deg.
F per day until you are near freezing for a month, you can't
expect good results. 

That's probably why many who try homebrewing give up on
it--they expect to make lagers using ale temperatures and
techniques. Lagers are more difficult to make, that's for
sure, but not impossible. It's easier to make ales, and if
you like ales, I'd stick with them and make a clone of
something you already know you like.

A good ale that is light like an American lager but is still
an ale is a Kolsch. It sells for a little over $20 at the
site I listed above:

http://www.ebrew.com/light_ales/german_kolsch.htm#top

>
>Also, the great debate over yeast in HBD during the
>93-96 period was that liquid yeast (Wyeast) produced a
>better product.  Any change in that opinion?

Most brewers prefer to use liquid yeasts. I prefer to use
dried yeast for ales and liquid for lagers, but I plan to
experiment with a DCL lager yeast. 

There certainly is a much larger selection of different
liquid yeasts, but for ales I've had great success with a
few different brands of dried ale yeast.

This is a subject for a great debate, but most brewers will
recommend throwing out the yeast that comes with a can of
malt and using fresh yeast.

In the kits from the web site I gave you, they give you
fresh dried or liquid yeast, and for the Kolsch, they offer
two different brands of liquid yeast to choose from!!!

Of the two brands, I prefer the White Labs pitchable yeast,
but there are some who like the Wyeast smack packs. I don't
like to wait a day or so for the yeast to swell the smack
pack because I often suddenly find time to brew and can't
wait.

Donald Hellen
To reply, substitute "firstnamelastname" with 
my firstname and lastname in the header and 
use no spaces.



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Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 15:32:05 -0800
From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu>
Subject: Re

Hi Tim,

I started brewing about 12 years ago and had experiences similar to 
yours... drinkable beer, but definitely homebrewed.  I still liked the 
process, however and wanted to someday get around to doing it correctly.

When I got back into homebrewing about 2 years ago, I had some pretty bad 
batches, mostly due to:
a) poor sanitation
b) scorching the extract on the bottom of the kettle
c) wildly swinging temp during fermentation

As I worked these things out, my beer started to improve, and i have just 
switched to all-grain.  While I was playing with my setup, I was just 
buying partial-mash kits from www.morebeer.com and 
http://www.northernbrewer.com/ (No affiliation)... some were definitely 
better than others.  The best kit I made was a brown ale from BBMB; this 
was the first one that really made me (and others who tried it) say "wow, 
you MADE this?"  I have made the same kit again with slightly less good 
results, however.  This makes me pretty certain that sanitation is my weak 
link, because that is probably the what varied most between iterations of 
the same recipe.

Most importantly, if you are thinking of homebrewing to try to save money 
on your beer drinking, I'd suggest you start recycling aluminum cans or 
something.  I love the equiment side of brewing and if I totted up all the 
money I have dribbled away, a bit at a time, on pipe fittings and gadgets, 
I could just go to a bar and order a beer any time I was thirsty and still 
come out ahead.   To really save money, one of the best things you could do 
is to ranch yeast (think about it... that is about 10% the cost of a kit) , 
but I know myself well enough to know that I would be adding a huge 
contamination risk.

cheers,
mike
Monterey, CA



>My main question:  Can anyone relate an experience
>brewing an extract that produced great results?  I
>do not mean superior, like I would expect from an
>all-grain brew; but decent enough that it compares
>favorably to a store-bought microbrew?  If so, what
>did you use?



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Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 21:28:55 -0500
From: Tim & Cindy Howe <howe at execulink.com>
Subject: RE: Why I stopped Brewing:

Tim Spencer asks about brewing from extract:

 >My main question: Can anyone relate an experience
 >brewing an extract that produced great results? I
 >do not mean superior, like I would expect from an
 >all-grain brew; but decent enough that it compares
 >favorably to a store-bought microbrew? If so, what
 >did you use?

It's been a few years since I brewed with extract, but when I did, I tried 
a bunch, and the only one I was *really* happy with was Munton's DME.

The biggest problem with extracts IMO is poor attenuation - too much 
residual sugar after fermentation due to unfermentable sugars (although 
freshness is also an issue). There were many LMEs I used which would only 
attenuate to about 50%, leading to a sweet syrupy  beer which was barely 
drinkable (and that was only if you weren't too picky!)

Anyway, back to the Muntons. From my notes, I brewed an experimental batch 
using only Muntons DME and hops, and fermented with Yeastlab California 
Lager Yeast (liquid), and got an apparent attenuation of 79% (1.048 -> 
1.010) which is very good for an extract malt. The resulting beer was quite 
drinkable, and Munton's became my base malt for the rest of my extract 
career. Add in steeping and/or partial mashing, and great beers are 
possible; but a high quality yeast is imperative! For a clean tasting brew, 
select Danstar Nottingham (dry) or Wyeast 1056 (liquid). The results are 
comparable, and if you want more "bang for the buck" go for the Nottingham.

 >Also, the great debate over yeast in HBD during the
 >93-96 period was that liquid yeast (Wyeast) produced a
 >better product. Any change in that opinion?

If the yeast is handled properly, either will produce comparable results. 
Unfortunately, dry yeast is more often mishandled. If your yeast selection 
is being kept in a fridge when you go to purchase it, it won't matter if 
it's liquid or dry IMO.

Cheers,

Tim Howe
London, Ont



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Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:48:07 -0500
From: "jim" <jimswms at cox.net>
Subject: Rehydrating dry yeast??

I heard a rumor that DCL (safale/saflager) does not recommend rehydrating
their dried yeasts. I'm just wondering if this is true, and what everybody
thinks? I can believe it. there are dry baking yeasts available that do not
require rehydration. I plan on using some Safale S04 soon, and would like to
hear from others.

cheers,
Jim



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Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:13:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Ted Enright <tbrewmaster at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Brown Malt & "Old British Beers and How Make Them

I have used the directions in 'Old British Beers and
How to Make Them" for making pale amber, amber and
brown malt. and I agree with Jeff Renner that the
flavor is much better when using the grain fresh as
opposed to using it some time later as others suggest,
aging the beer is the way to go! I have not tried to
use 100% brown, yet, to make a Porter, but have used 2
lbs in my current favorite, and the beer is awesome,
the roastiness is a flavor I can't get any other way
using commercialy available grains. I have found that
I don't need to leave the grain in the oven quite as
long as the directions say. It's best to continue to
monitor the roastiness by slicing the grain, as
directed, periodically. You'll be looking for a color
about the same as a paper bag on the inside of the
grain. 
Jeff R., if you are considering making Simonds Reading
Bitter, I say go for it, it's a very good ale, and
seems to come together with about 2-3 months of
conditioning in bottle.
Ted




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Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:22:48 -0800
From: Jim Wilson <jgwilson at adelphia.net>
Subject: RE: Homebrew Classics...

I have the Homebrew Classics IPA book which I bought from Clive at the 2001
AHA Conference.  It's wonderful.  La Pensee is a professional historian and
Protz is a beer writer with near Michael Jackson stature.  They combine to
provide a great perspective.  "IPA" goes deeper into history than the Style
Series books do including 24 recipes of the day.  I appreciated this
concentration on the facts about IPA rather than the author's opinions
about modern developments.  Two thirds of their bibliography are books from
1833-1908.  I think this is a must have reference for IPA lovers.  No
affiliation yadda yadda.

Jim Wilson

                  o          \o
   __o         /\          /
  `\ <>       `\ `>       `\  >
(*)/ (*)    (*)/ (*)    (*)/ (*)

I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle.




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Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 14:32:44 -0500
From: "Jeff & Ellen" <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: water experiment

The English Pale Ale water salts experiment went well Saturday at Teach a
Friend to Homebrew Day.  I ended up using 15 gallons of distilled water, to
1/2 was added Gypsum, Epsom Salts, and Kosher table salt to achieve about
these levels:
Magnesium	26ppm
Sulfate		766ppm
Calcium	277ppm
Sodium		26ppm
Chloride 	40ppm

There was some question in the Burton water literature about levels of
Bicarbonate, Ray Daniels saying zero, but Terry Foster and C. Papazian
saying as much as 300ppm.  I hope that leaving this out was not an error.

To the other 7.5 gallons of distilled water I added just enough Gypsum to
the mash water to get about 50ppm Calcium.  I put none in the sparge water.

The brews went smoothly with the exception of a shortage in final after-boil
volume in the batch without salts.  The corresponding gravity was about 1.5
points higher.  I attribute this to inconsistency in the boil intensity from
one batch to the other.  I added some boiled and cooled tap water to make up
the difference and even out the gravity readings.

Samples looked identical in color.  Both are fermenting well.  'Can't wait
to see if there's a major difference in taste.

Thanks to all for the advice.

Jeff Gladish, Tampa



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