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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Swinging Fermentation Temperatures ("Steve Smith")
  Historical brewing/Why I Brew, ad nauseum (Michael)
  Why i stopped brewing / Cost of homebrew (Thomas Rohner)
  Saturday's brew (K.M.)" <kmuell18@visteon.com>
  Re: Fridge Question (Scott Alfter)
  Reasons to Brew (Alexandre Enkerli)
  Re: Why I stopped brewing ("Gary Smith")
  Re: Awards brewing with Extract (Robert Marshall)
  Breweries in Cincinnati (Han Hidalgo)
  Starter wort gravity revisited (Stephen T. Kajdasz)
  rehydrating yeast ("Stephen Cavan")


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Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:38:36 -0700
From: "Steve Smith" <sasmith at in-tch.com>
Subject: Swinging Fermentation Temperatures

A friend of mine who has brewed longer than I, has told me that if room
temperatures during fermentation are lower than the suggested fermentation
temperature range (within reason), that although the beer will ferment
slower, nevertheless it will eventually complete, with no noticeable ill
effect to your beer.

I'm fermenting a partial extract, partial steeped grain Scotch Ale with a
suggested fermentation temperature range of 66 degrees - 68 degrees (using
liquid Wyeast 1968 ESB yeast).  After primary fermentation in the house, I
racked into the secondary fermenter and put the beer in the basement where
it is dark, and where although lower, the temperature remains consistently
more steady (this is at my mother's country log house property at 4000 feet
elevation in the Montana Rockies).  In the basement, the brew kept pushing
bubbles through the airlock at around 60 degrees air temperature during the
first 10 or so days of secondary fermentation.  A cold front came through,
and the basement temperature dropped to around 55 - 57 degrees for three or
four days, and I noticed that the airbubbles stopped perking (the airlock
does indicate that there is still carbon dioxide buildup in the carboy).
The cold front passed through, and the basement air temperature has come
back up to about 60 degrees.  I'm not seeing any further bubbling, but don't
necessarily expect to.  I've just started into the third week of a suggested
4-week-long secondary fermentation.

Assuming that I wish to leave the beer in the basement, would the correct
course of action be to buy a brew belt, or otherwise bring the fermentation
temp closer to the target range, or is my friend right, meaning that I will
still end up with excellent beer, even if I leave it in the current 58
degree - 60 degree temperature range and just be sure to wait until
fermentation is finished?  I assume that the fermentation process has
slowed, or possibly the yeast went into hibernation.  Are there some
guidelines as to when yeast go into hibernation (such as, at what
temperature below the suggested fermentation temp range)?  Does slowed
fermentation result in a worse final product?  How about beer in which the
yeast went into hibernation, and then became active again?  Once yeast goes
into hibernation, does it easily become active again?  At this point, do I
need to take steps to protect my batch?  I appreciate any advice,
recognizing that many of you have many more years into the art, practice and
science of zymurgy than I.  In the past, I have brewed excellent beer under
similar conditions as I have explained above.  Thank you!

Steve Smith
sasmith at in-tch.com



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Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:58:35 -0600
From: Michael <grice at binc.net>
Subject: Historical brewing/Why I Brew, ad nauseum

Thanks to Mike Dixon, Brad McMahon and Ted Enright for their replies
about the Homebrew Classics books and the latest edition of the Durden
Park circle book.

Brewing historical, hard-to-find and rare styles are indeed one of the
things that interests me about this hobby. For instance, lambics,
Berliner weisses, oud bruins, kolschs and classic American Pilseners
range from difficult to find to impossible to find in North America. I
have a (p)lambic in a carboy and a Berliner weisse in a keg (although I
think an uncovered sour mash was not such a good idea, as I might have
to toss it). I am planning to brew a CAP in the near future.

I should also mention that homebrewers have played a big role in the
revival of certain styles, such as the porter.

By the way, anybody have a tried-and-true recipe for gruit? I see a
number of sources (Stephen Buhner's Herbal and Sacred Healing Beers,
a few recipes on the web), but I'm curious if anyone here has any actual
experience.

Oh, and Tim Spencer wrote:

>All I can say is *WOW*!  I received many replies, both
>here and by email on my Why I Stopped Brewing post
>in HBD 4389.  Thanks to all - I really appreciate it!

Translation: For God's sake, stop!

Michael
Middleton WI


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Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:50:29 +0100
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Why i stopped brewing / Cost of homebrew

Hi all
Have you ever thought about how much money you save, during a 8 hour
all-grain session.(green fees, hardware store....)
Or the coolness factor brewing your own beer.(Hey this guy brews his
own beer!) So you don't need to buy a custom Harley Davidson $$$ to
be cool.
And most HB is consumed at home, so you save on bars and pubs.

For me it's not the money, it's a interesting and relaxing hobby 
with a very nice fallout.(fallouts are beers, ales, meads, ciders 
and root-berry-fruit-flower-fermentablesomewhats)

Cheers  Thomas



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Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:10:12 -0500 
From: "Mueller, Kevin (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com>
Subject: Saturday's brew

About a week ago I wrote asking how much grain I could fit into my sankey
mash tun for my brew on Saturday.  The answer is 39 3/4 pounds, with 10 gal
of water!!  Filled to the rim.

I mashed at around 150, and ended up with about 7 gal of first runnings
(post boil, a bit over 1.100).  Refilled the tun and pulled about 5 gal
(post boil, a bit over 1.050).

I was pretty happy at the results.  I never use my hydrometer, so it was a
stretch to even find it.  I figured that since this was my first batch
sparge and party gyle, I'd take a reading to see how I did.

I filled my carboys and added rehydrated, dry yeast (first time I
rehydrated!).  I was a little disappointed with the lag time.  I had
positive pressure relatively quickly (about 5 hrs), but didn't have a foamy
head until about 24 hrs.  Of course almost immediately after, I almost had a
carboy bomb when the first runnings beer plugged the airlock!!  Pulled the
airlocks, and let things go overnight (on three carboys, I did an extract
batch while mashing), and had a nice sticky mess on the floor to clean up in
the morning.  Better than broken glass though!

Gotta love brewing!

Kevin
Canton, MI




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Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:04:46 -0800
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Re: Fridge Question

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 at 18:58:42 -0500, "Jay Spies"
<jayspies at citywidehomeloans.com> wrote:
> I have a dedicated refrigerator for fermentation and for this particular
> batch I have it set for 48 degrees.  Things seem to be bumping along
> nicely. My problem is this: my fridge has a hard time getting down below
> about 38 degrees for cold conditioning (I use a Ranco controller to cycle
> the fridge...) The freezer compartment is for the most part unused during
> fermentation (and most other times as well).  Since my coolant lines run
> up the back of the fridge, would it be problematic to cut a 2" or so hole
> in between the freezer and fridge compartments to let the cold freezer air
> flow down into the fridge and basically turn the whole thing into a
> freezer?

It depends on the way it was built...they all have a line running up the
back from the compressor to the evaporator, but if you have any part of the
evaporator between the two compartments, you run the risk of punching right
through it by cutting a big hole.  The typical late-model fridge will most
likely have the evaporator at the back (or maybe top) of the freezer
compartment, so your only worry would then be to not cut through any control
wiring.  On the other hand, with the ancient Admiral dorm-fridge-on-steroids
that I use for fermentation, the evaporator _is_ the freezer compartment.

Generally speaking, turning the whole thing into a freezer would work. 
Other people use freezers for brewing or serving.  I snagged a chest freezer
 at  Costco recently to hold kegs of finished beer...thought I'd get by at
first by setting its thermostat to the warmest setting, but that's still
sub-freezing.  I'm currently designing a temperature controller that'll run
both it and the old fridge.  (The fridge is currently controlled by some
custom interface hardware plugged into an Apple IIe...I could extend its
software and build a simpler add-on to enable it to control the other
fridge, but I've wanted to try designing a computer from scratch for a
while.  Now I have an excuse. :-) )

  _/_   Scott Alfter ($firstname at $lastname.us)
 / v \  http://alfter.us/
(IIGS(  Southern Nevada Ale Fermenters Union - http://snafu.alfter.us/
 \_^_/  Beer and Loafing in Las Vegas - http://www.beerandloafing.org/



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Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:24:02 -0500
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Reasons to Brew

I'm sure there'll be an even larger number of posts on "Why I 
started/continued brewing" than there was about stopping, but here's 
mine anyway.
Thirteen years ago, when I was 18, our saxophone teacher invited us to 
a party at his place. There were 12 of us, IIRC, and we had eight cases 
of twelve large bottles (660 ml) as well as twelve bottles of wine (750 
ml). Some of us didn't drink much and several of us drank in a matter 
of 12 hours (3PM to 3AM). There was a Stout and a Pale Ale (IIRC) which 
were both good. Despite the amount of alcohol, nobody got sick or 
otherwise indisposed by alcohol. We all seemed tipsy, but not wasted. 
Added to this was the fact that our teacher told us his beer cost 
CAD$0.20 a bottle. I knew from that point on that I wanted to brew. It 
took ten years and I finally started in 2001.
After a while, my list of reasons to brew has become pretty much like 
Steven St. Laurent's. What I'd add as personal reasons:
1) Sea Monkeys: We (metaphorically) give life to beer but we also 
realistically give life to yeast cells.
2) Beer as an Artistic Medium: By creating new beers out of our own 
imagination, we partake in an artistic process.
3) Pasteur at Work: By trying to control so many variables in the 
process, we learn and experiment several principles of biochemistry.
4) Rites of Passage: There's enough to brewing experience that we can 
improve in many different ways.
5) Beer Buddies: Brewclubs are a good place to interact with people who 
love good beer.
6) Tastebiere: Understanding the process of brewing, we learn to taste 
beer in a new way.
7) Beer Hippies: Taken to the extreme, the DIY ideology behind brewing 
could bring us closer to the dream of self-sufficiency.
8) Dale Carnegie: Good beer may attract good (non-brewing) friends.

Apart from that, I'd like to mention (if it's not completely obvious) 
that all-grain brewing can become quite cheap if you belong to a club: 
yeast banks, bulk orders, homegrown hops, shared equipment, split 
batches...
What's the cheapest batch you made

Alex, in Montreal
[555.1km, 62.8] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:44:13 -0600
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Why I stopped brewing

Hi Tim (open letter),

You've gotten some really great answers & from yesterdays digest & your 
post in there it looks like you're still interested in brewing. I think that's 
good, real good because it's important to do something you have 
evaluated rather than done as a  knee-jerk one or two time event.

My first brew was when I was maybe 13 and I put a bunch of Concord 
grapes in a jar with sugar. All the yeast on the grapes beat out the other 
beasties & it was tasting great & going strong till my Mom found it & it was 
pitched (no pun intended). My second brew was in 1976 when I was in 
college. I was making mead and I had to wait for it to cool on the dorm 
stove. When I thought it was cool enough to carry back to my room I did 
so perfectly till I got in the door the heat got to me & the bottle slipped & 
fell 3" on linoleum. This was a day before Nursing Mid-terms and I spent 
the entire evening mopping up 5 gal of honey water from my dorm floor. 
The flies everywhere in the dorm a week later got me in more trouble than 
the brewing did not to mention the month-long sticky floor I couldn't get rid 
of...

Later, there was the Christmas gift of a homebrew I gave to my RA in the 
dorm to kinda buy his silence that I was back to brewing again. When I 
saw him the next semester he came up and told me how overjoyed he 
was that the bottle exploded in his luggage in the un-pressurized 
compartment and all his clothes were soaked with beer for his mom to see 
& smell. Luckily it was in a bag to catch the shards...

But there I was, off & running  with homebrewing after those glorious 
starts.

As to why I homebrew. There's been a lot of people that have been 
posting many of the same reasons I have. However, there's a bit o'the 
willful rebel in me & I really don't like being forced in to doing anything I 
don't want to do. I didn't like the quality of the beer available in the 70's & 
80's. My homebrew sometimes was far better than anything I could buy 
but if I made it, I made it. That to me was enough in itself. I didn't rely on 
anyone else for my beer. Time passes & beers improved greatly but so did 
mine. Nowadays I could drink micro beer forever &  be happy with the 
drink but I wouldn't be doing it myself. 

Besides, every government entity wants to tax beer because it's an easy 
cash cow. If you make brew yourself you are exempting yourself from all 
those pork barrel taxes except for the small taxes on the ingredients. 
Knowing the Govt. & politicians loath anything they can't control & 
leverage money from and that homebrew is out of their reach... well that 
resonates just fine with me too.

I'm kind of a geek in that I like making things and making my RIMS 
brewery was a real thrill to me. I've always wanted to brew all grain and it's 
been a goal. Now that it's done I use ProMash to plan my next brew & 
between using that & asking questions/reading answers here on HBD it's 
really hard to make an average brew anymore. I harvest my yeast so the 
price of yeast is out of the equation. Hops, grain, electricity & propane are 
about it for cost anymore and I really can't think of more than literally one 
or two beers anywhere I like as much as my own. 

One thing Tim, your first batch might be perfection but it probably won't 
be. It's a hobby and every mistake & success will be part of your next 
brew & so on. If you want to make wonderful beer then given enough good 
practice you will but only if you keep on with it.

Cheers,

Gary Smith
http://musician.dyndns.org/homebrew.html



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Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:36:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Subject: Re: Awards brewing with Extract

I've mentioned him before, but I'll mention him again.
Don Gortmiller, of Pacific Coast Brewing Co. uses
extract for brewing his beers in Oakland. And he has
won numerous awards at GABF.

Robert
- -----------------

Tim asked...

> My main question:  Can anyone relate
> an experience brewing an extract 
> that produced great results?



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Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:25:27 +0100
From: Han Hidalgo <hidalgo at worldonline.nl>
Subject: Breweries in Cincinnati


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Breda, The Netherlands, 4.11.2003
 
Dear Sir,
 
Is it possible to send me a list with breweries in Cincinnati?
 
Thanking you in advance.
 
Han Hidalgo
Biercuisine Recipes with beer (www.biercuisine.nl)



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Date: 04 Nov 2003 15:38:28 EST
From: Stephen.T.Kajdasz at Dartmouth.EDU (Stephen T. Kajdasz)
Subject: Starter wort gravity revisited

During the two week session with Dr. Cone a lot of discussion was raised
about the best conditions for a yeast starter, particularily the gravity of the
starter wort.  Steve Alexander has stated that the gravity should be less 
than 1.028 to keep the glucose level at a desirable level. What I was 
wondering, and this may be a stupid question, if I want to step the starter 
up multiple times does the gravity of each subsequent wort addition have 
to be about twice as high as the previous addition (assuming the volume 
added is the same at each step) since the wort will be diluted when added 
to the mostly metabolized starter (in order to keep the gravity at say 
1.025), or is it sufficient to add 16oz of a 1.025 starter each time since 
you just want to give the yeast sugar while keeping the glucose level 
below 0.4%
Thanks everybody.

Steve Kajdasz
Lebanon, NH


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Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:20:19 -0600
From: "Stephen Cavan" <scavan at sprint.ca>
Subject: rehydrating yeast

Just to make the issue of rehydration perfectly muddy... R.E. Muller (et
al.) in the European Brewing Convention Proceedings of the 26th Congress
1997 wrote a paper called "Brewery Fermentation with Dried Lager Yeast" pg
431ff.
"... while yeast could be rehydrated specifically before pitching with
either wort or sugar solutions, almost identical fermentations resulted from
direct pitching with untreated yeast" "Thus the method of
rehydration/pitching did not influence the outcome of tall tank
fermentations and direct pitching was used for all subsequent
fermentations." (pg 434)

Also as an interesting observation:  "rehydration temperature had no effect
on lager yeast, but viability of ale yeast fell dramatically when it was
rehydrated cold. All subsequent rehydration was conducted at room
temperature." (pg 434)

Cheers,
Steve




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