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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Competition Email notices (Michael)
  RE: Interesting Observation ("Sven Pfitt")
  Franco-Belgian results (Bill Rogers)
  Beer Supplies in Texas (Denis Bekaert)
  Capsaicin ("A.J deLange")
  RE: Interesting Observation ("Dan Hansen")
  in search of lambic digest archive ("Raj B. Apte")
  Primary fermentation in plastic vs carboy ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  Re: in search of lambic digest archive ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  nitro beer gas questions ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  My annual post (mrgoodbeer)
  Re: Can't find 10 gal cornys  Convert a Sanke? ("Gary Smith")
  Brew cost ("Chad Stevens")
  First brewing text (Mike Bardallis)


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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:38:32 -0600
From: Michael <grice at binc.net>
Subject: Competition Email notices

Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com> writes about the difficulty
of sending mass emails on Windows.

First, you could look at mail list software. Or perhaps someone with
who already runs brewing-related mailing lists would be willing to run
one for you. I can think of at least one on this list (and I don't mean
our janitor). Admittedly, this may not be practical. 

(There is probably other software out there that will do what you want,
but I have no idea what it might be or whether or not it costs money. I'd
just use a perl script myself.)

It really wouldn't be too difficult to port your existing scripts
over to Windows, I suspect. I'd bet that they use sendmail or the mail
program, which aren't typically available on Windows (even though perl
is). You can replace this functionality with either a command line
mailer like blat or with a perl module.

If you don't like the mailing list idea or can't find a generous volunteer
to run one for you, I would be willing to help port your perl scripts to
Windows (with the caveat that I may not be able to work on it for a few
weeks).

Michael
Middleton WI


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Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:03:11 -0500
From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Interesting Observation

Duane Drake Ponders split fermentation :


>I recently (10/26) brewed 10 gallons of a strong stout (OG:1.074) and split 
>the wort into two >ontainers.  One was a 6-1/2 gallon carboy and one the 
>standard 5 gallon plastic bucket.  I decanted >nd split a 1/2 gallon 
>starter of White Labs  Irish Ale yeast between the two after aeration.  
>Both took >ff quickly and I had to switch to a blow-off setup by the next 
>evening, or I was going to have a
>erious mess on my hands.  Both vessels were sitting side by side at 
>approximately 70 degrees F.

>ow the interesting part.  This past Monday, the krausen had receded enough 
>to rack to secondary.  >hen I measured the gravity, the carboy was 1.025 
>and the bucket was 1.020.  What would cause this >dference?  The same wort, 
>the same yeast, the same vigorous fermentation, and the same temp.  >as it 
>the number of yeast cells in my highly scientific splitting of the yeast 
>starter?

>Thanks,
>Duane Drake


Assuming everything else was the same,  you used different fermenters, one 
glass and one plastic.

Different thremal properties of the fermenters. Plastic insulates better, 
and as a result the exothermic yeast fermentation raised the temp more and 
fermented faster.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian

"There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968



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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 06:06:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Rogers <bill6beers at yahoo.com>
Subject: Franco-Belgian results

Congratulations to the winners of the inaugural Franco-Belgian Challenge
Cup!  The Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild proclaims a hearty thank
you to all who entered, and especially to those who judged and stewarded
this competition.  Here are the results ...

Best of Show: Mark Morrison, "Dark Abbey Ale"
BOS Runner-up: Nathan Kanous, "Silver Crown"
BOS 2nd Runner-up: Steve Fletty, "Abbey de St Steve Triple"

Category 18: Strong Belgian Ale
1st Place:   Steve Fletty, Falcon Heights, MN
             "Abbey de St Steve Triple"
2nd Place:   Dan and Joelle Dewberry, Austin, TX
             "Dubbel"
3rd Place:   Mark Morrison, DeForest, WI
             "Dark Abbey Ale"

Category 19: Belgian and French Ale
1st Place:   Michael Ball, Cambridge, WI
             "Biere de Garde"
2nd Place:   Nathan Kanous, Madison, WI
             "Saison dEtre"
3rd Place:   Nathan Kanous, Madison, WI
             "Silver Crown"

Category 20: Lambic and Belgian Sour Ale
No awards given.
=====



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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 06:16:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Denis Bekaert <Denis-B at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Beer Supplies in Texas

Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:35:33 -0600
From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu>
Subject: Homebrew Supplier Desert

"The first victim was my local homebrew supply house -

Brewstuff in College Station.  After struggling for 7
years, they went out of business about 1.5 years ago. 
So I widened my net and started getting supplies
through the mail from St. Patrick's of Texas, located
in Austin....."

David I have a great source of supplies for beer and
wine for you, Austin Homebrew Supplies.  I used to buy
from both St. Pats and AHB but in the last few years
Lynne has carried less and less of what I needed, so I
switched entirely to Austin Homebrew.  They always
have what I want, the prices are excellent and the
service is unmatched in my experience.  Forrest and
the rest of the crew moved to a much bigger store last
year and, as a result, have a fine selection of
winemaking stuff too.

Since I live in Tennessee and only visit Austin two or
three timea a year, I use their mail order service. 
If your order is $60 or more, shipping (UPS) is free!

I also use a local homebrew store in Nashville, All
Seasons, but it's actually much easier for me to order
on line with free shipping (and no sales tax) from
Austin Homebrew.

No affilation, but a highly satisfied, long term
customer.

Denis Bekaert
Beechgrove, Tennessee 



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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:06:24 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Capsaicin

For Gary Smith: Dave's Insanity is rumored to contain no peppers at all 
but rather only some sort of base and straight capsaicin. It certainly 
does not have any pepper flavor that I can distinguish.

Yes, capsaicin can be a problem in the sense you mention. I remember 
one evening after working with the raw stuff (to calibrate my pepper 
measuring method) I retired to SWMBO's boudoir and, oh well, lets just 
say my experience supports your statement.

The good news is that capsaicin is soluble in fat (which is why the 
answer to a scorched mouth is yoghurt, olive oil, butter or ice cream 
and not beer or water) and alcohol. If you get capsaicin on your hands, 
wash with rubbing alcohol. Test on part of your own body (corner of 
eye, nostril...) before touching anyone else's.

A.J. 



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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:30:16 -0800
From: "Dan Hansen" <dan at hansen.org>
Subject: RE: Interesting Observation



Duane wrote:
I recently (10/26) brewed 10 gallons of a strong stout (OG:1.074) and
split the wort into two containers.  ..... ....When I measured the
gravity, the carboy was 1.025 and the bucket was 1.020.  What would
cause this difference? 

Duane,
I had a similar experience with a batch of IPA I brewed a few months
ago.  Did you happen to measure the OG on both containers?  I can only
figure two possibilities:  1) I used a yeast starter from the dredges of
a previous batch of IPA.  And like you, I wasn't to scientific in
splitting the starter into equal parts.  2) I went directly from my brew
pot through a counter-chiller to the carboys.  The first carboy always
picks up more trub from the kettle.  This may have effect fermentation.

My solution is to combine both batches into a 10 gallon corny keg for
secondary.

Dan
  



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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:46:56 -0800 (PST)
From: "Raj B. Apte" <raj_apte at yahoo.com>
Subject: in search of lambic digest archive

Hey all,

Does anyone know where and when the lambic digest
archive is supposed to re-appear?
Hubris.engin.umich.edu is probably pissed off at me by
now.

thanks,
raj



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Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:08:23 -0800
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com>
Subject: Primary fermentation in plastic vs carboy

Duane Drake noticed that primary fermentation went faster in a plastic
primary than a carboy.  This is consistent with my experience, and I _think_
(not that I have any scientific proof) that the plastic is more permeable to
oxygen and that this helps in the beginning with yeast growth.  My plastic 
primaries
also have a greater diameter (hence more surface area exposed on top) and
the lids are not completely sealed.

This logic, true or not, is why I always transfer from the plastic primary 
into glass
early, while the fermentation is still active in order to decrease the
likelihood of oxidation.

Anyone with a more scientific explanation??


Steve Dale-Johnson
Brewing at 1918 miles, 298 degrees Rennerian
Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada.



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Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:53:23 -0500
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: in search of lambic digest archive


>From: "Raj B. Apte" 
>
>Does anyone know where and when the lambic digest
>archive is supposed to re-appear?
>Hubris.engin.umich.edu is probably pissed off at me by
>now.
>
Hubris.engin.umich.edu no longer exists.  The server that used to have 
that name is now behind a firewall and is inaccessible. :-(

I'm working on getting the functionality that used to live there running 
on a server at hbd.org, but finding time and then being sick with three 
different things in three consecutive weeks have not helped to move that 
project towards a timely conclusion!

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI




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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:31:35 -0500
From: drfoster at tatanova.com

Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:19:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Business proposal


Greetings of the day to you! How are you today? I do hope that you are
fine. This letter might surprise you because we have not met neither in
person nor by correspondence,but please you should exercise some patience
and read through my message. I have a very urgent and confidential
business proposal for you.

My name is Dr Foster Lahgah. I am the eastern manager of Royalenet Brewing
Plc (R.N.B),Abuja branch Nigeria. I want to transfer out 26 million
gallons (TWENTY SIX MILLION U.S GALLONS) from our brewery. I have the
courage to look for a reliable and honest person who will be capable for
this important business,believing that you will never let me down either
now or in future.

HOW THE BEER CAME ABOUT:

There is a vat opened in this brewery in 1980 and since 1990 nobody has
operated on this vat again,after going through some old files in the
records I discovered that if I do not remitte this beer out urgently it
will be forfeited for nothing.

The owner of this vat is Mr. Ale Rodenbach, he is a foreigner and the
manager of of brewing chemistry service,a chemical Engineer by proffession
and he died since 1990, and since then no other person knows about this
vat or anything concerning it.secondly he did not clearify his next of kin
in his deposition form when he deposited this beer in our vat.The vat has
no other beneficiary and my investigation proved to me as well that his
company does not know anything about this beer and the amount involved is
(26,000,000.00 U.S. Gallons).

I want to tranfer this beer into a safe foreign vat abroad but i don't
know any foreigner,I am contacting you as a foreigner because this beer
can not be approved to any local brewery here but can only be approved to
a foreign vat because the beer is in u.s gallons and the former owner
of the vat (ENGR.ALE RODENBACH) is a foreigner too. I know that this
message will come to you as a surprise as we don't know ourself before,but
be sure that it is real and a genuine business.I believe in god that you
will never let me down in this business,you are the only person that i
have contacted for this business for now,so please reply urgently so that
we can receive this beer into a foreign brewery or any brewery of your
choice where the beer will be pumped.

I am contacting you because of the need to involve a foreigner with a
foreign brewery as the real beneficiary,I need your co-operation to make
this work fine,because the management of our brewery is ready to approve
this shipment to any foreigner who has the correct information to this vat
which i will give to you when sure of your capability to handle such
amount with instrict confidence and trust,and according to my instructions
and my advice for our mutual benefit because I don't want to make any
mistake. I need your strong assurance and trust, I shall also destroy all
documents concerning this transactions immidiately we received this beer
leaving no trace to any place. I will use my position and influence on
other staffs to effect legal approvals and onward transfer of this beer to
your vat with appropriate clearance from foreign pumping department,with
assurance that this beer will be intact pending my physical arrival in
your country for the sharing and other uses.

Finally,at the conclusion of this business,you will be given 25% of the
total ammount,70% will be for me ,while 5% will be for expenses both
parties might have incured during the process of this transaction.Try and
negotiate for me some profitable brew investment opportunities which is
risk free which I can invest with this beer when it is transferred to your
vat and I am interested in vat management and hotel business, please
advise me. I look forward to your earliest reply through my private e-mail
address.

Yours truly,

Dr Foster Lahgah.

NOTE:PLEASE REPLY THROUGH MY PRIVATE CONTACT: 
< drfoster at tatanova.com >





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Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:49:16 -0800
From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com>
Subject: nitro beer gas questions

In the interest of pouring a reasonably authentic dry irish stout, I am 
considering switching my spare C02 tank to a nitrogen blend and one faucet 
on the fridge to a creamer faucet.  Not to start the flame wars again (well, 
OK, flame away...) but I do enjoy a well poured Kilkenny or Guinness on 
occasion and well, it's my new fetish of the month for brew gadgets.  I want 
the nearly flat beer with the thick creamy head, and you can't get that from 
a can or from how my taps pour now.   I have three questions:

1) When buying a second regulator (yes, it will be another dual gauge...) do 
actually I need the special Nitro/blended gas regulator or is the difference 
just calibration in the gauges?

2) Can a standard C02 tank be filled with a blended liquid-gas mix and 
dispense a blended gas properly?  I remember hearing about the need for a 
partial dip tube to pick up the gas part way down (still above the max 
liquid level) to get a consistent composition that's not stratified, but I 
am not clear on this.  My gas supplier (a fire extinguisher guy) will fill 
with whatever blend I want but does not know what is normal in bevgas use 
for blending or on the dip tube question.

3) Any recommendations on composition from someone who runs a keg fridge 
with a similar blended gas /creamer system?  My runs are short (6-8 feet of 
resistance/choke tubing just for balance) and I usually dispense at about 
11psi.  Carbonation is how I like it for lagers although way high for what I 
want in the stout.  My guess is 50/50 or 75 Nitro/25 C02 will give me what I 
want, but I have no idea how the creamer faucet will affect the pouring flow 
and carbonation in the beer.

Ok, fourth question of three...do I actually need to switch gases, or will a 
creamer faucet bleed enough carbonation to make the beer gas questions 
moot???

Any input is welcomed.


Steve Dale-Johnson
Brewing at 1918 miles, 298 degrees Rennerian
Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada.



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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:38:20 -0500
From: mrgoodbeer at juno.com
Subject: My annual post


     Belated thanks to those who responded to my propane and septic
questions over a year ago. My relocation was more of an evacuation than a
move, and I'm still getting situated in the new place. My temporary
greenhouse/brewhouse (no basement or garage) collapsed in the big
February snow (I was right, it was temporary), so I have to build a
bigger, better one for all-grain brewing.
     A close replacement for the Budvar under-modified malt would be
Moravian pilsen malt, available through any retailer who deals with the
wholesaler L.D. Carlson Co. It's fully modified 2-row spring barley from
the Hana region, 1.84 Lovibond.
     Franklin beer quote: The first time I ever saw it was as a chapter
heading in a wine book copyrighted in 1963, and it referred to wine (see
now and then, he is best known as a wine and women aficionado (why else
would he spend ten years in France?). I found a quotation site on the web
that lists both vesions. My feeling is that the wine version is the
original, and about eight years ago, some homebrewer modified it, and it
spread from there. I wish some Franklin scholar would settle this.
     A problem for me has been shipping entries to contests. UPS wants
packages unsealed so they can check for proper packing. FedEx has no
local package counter, and wouldn't take beer if they did. So far the
best solution has been to lie to the government and ship by Post Office.
I hope AHA can work something out, or there may be a decline in entries.
     I would like to talk to other retail shop owners privately about an
ethics matter. Is there some forum other than the HWBTA, or could we
start one? Until then, e-mail will do. There are other problems also,
such as finding an economical source of Concord grape concentrate, or
apple concentrate.
    I read HBD daily. Thank you guys for being there.

                   As usual, Tod Lewark
                   279.4,  136  Rennerian

Wine is a constant proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy.
- --Ben Franklin
The man who worries morning and night about the dandelions in the lawn
will find great relief in loving the dandelions.
- --Liberty Hyde Bailey, Manual of Gardening, 1910
As he brews, so shall he drink. -- Ben Jonson, 1598


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Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:06:40 -0600
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Can't find 10 gal cornys  Convert a Sanke?

HI,

It's looking like my best bet for finding affordable 
10 gallon cornys has turned into how to morph 
a corny top onto a keg. I'm getting quotes from a 
couple of welding shops to have the top of a 
corny mounted onto a Sanke keg. I've got a 
couple disposable 5 gal cornys & two empty 
Sanke kegs which could combine to form a 
tightly sealed units. 

There have been some really helpful replies 
to my question one being to read here:

http://hbd.org/forums/messages/15516/17988.
html?1065807314

One here:
http://www.kegs.com/yeastbrink.html

and one I found here:
http://www.brewtree.com/catalog/item/514615/
177616.htm#image_1 

There were other really excellent ideas like one fellow basically 
made a counter pressure attachment to fit in a large stopper 
which was used in an unmodified keg. That sounded 
great but I'm still concerned about being sure the interior was 
cleared of debris from the last brewing. I want to be able 
to look inside & scrub & clean anything left behind. 
 
I'd like at least two fermentors & including shipping that's 
getting up there in cost. Getting a discount price would be for 
orders of 6 or more. So I'm back to thinking about having 
something like this welded locally which is 50 min from 
downtown Chicago. 

If I have something like this made I will need to remove 
the top of the corny & the rubber handles. Any idea what 
will be the best way for me to remove the top of the keg 
& cut off the top of the Corny? If I have a shop do it 
the total cost will be that of buying a ready made one 
like the yeast brink.   Also... How to remove the rubber 
handles from cornys? If that top is welded that rubber 
will smoke like a fiend.

Gary

Gary Smith
CQ DX de KA1J
http://musician.dyndns.org/homebrew.html
http://musician.dyndns,org.rims.html





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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:30:44 -0800
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: Brew cost

Y'all,

Having absolutely nothing better to do this morning, I figured my grain and
hop costs over the last year where $235.87 for 121 gallons of beer or $.1949
per bottle; not bad.  This was a fairly typical year.

My equipment is minimal:

Keg boiler with hotwater heater element... $100
Old Fridge $200
Johnson Controller $50
Cooler tun $40
8 cornies at $15 per $120
co2 free!
2 carboys $40
2 pails $20
Capper, hose, and various sundry $100

That's $670 amortized over 15 years of brewing is $44.66 per year or $.0369
per bottle.

 Iodophor, bleach, natural gas, electricity and various other consumables:
rough swag of $130 per year or $.1074 per bottle.

 Grand total:$410.53 per year for 1210 bottles is, drum roll please, $.3393
per bottle.  Can anyone beat that?

 Per bottle cost will of course change dramatically when I buy that 2 barrel
system and have the floor drains installed, tile the garage walls, epoxy the
floor....

 FWIW,

 Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego



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Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:51:34 -0500
From: Mike Bardallis <dbgrowler at provide.net>
Subject: First brewing text

Like -S, I, too, had "Better Beer and How to Brew It" by M.
R. Reese to get me started. I wish I still had it. I think
the author is from the U. S., though. The book's only real
value is for amusement, for instance, it contains photos of
a hammer capper in use, for those who've never used one or
seen it in action. There are some really grandiose
pronouncements guaranteed to disappoint, and some downright
crappy procedural directions. Adding dry malt extract to
your brew? Why not put it into your fermenter instead of
adding it to the boil, and dump your wort in on top of it?
(!?) How about because you'll make a big extract rock? Of
course, I brewed two extract batches and, seeing how simple
mashing was, jumped right in. My fifth batch was completely
undrinkable, as this book advised adding 2 pounds of crushed
roasted barley to the kettle to make stout "just like
Guinness!" 6 years after making that, I discovered a bottle
and it _still_ was too harsh. Fortunately, I discovered
Byron Burch's Brewing Quality Beer around that time (still
the first book I recommend for most beginners,) and Charlie
P.'s book, and had better guidance. Fun to look back on
those days from today's perspective....

Mike Bardallis
Allen Park, Michigan


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---