HOMEBREW Digest #4397 Tue 11 November 2003


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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  The making of Barleywine (Bill Tobler)
  Barleywine question again (Bill Tobler)
  steam-rolled barley (Marc Sedam)
  getting soda smell out of kegs (Marc Sedam)
  Re:Nitrogen and hops don't mix (Randy Ricchi)
  Re: Starter wort gravity revisited (Travis Dahl KE4VYZ)
  Sugar in Secondary? ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  Re: Re: Peppers in beer ("Gregory D. Morris")
  Copper and PBW - long term contact (Budris)
  RE: convoluted copper cfwc ("Houseman, David L")
  re-using yeast (secondary/ or primary)? (darrell.leavitt)
  Motorizing a Mill (DC or AC motor) (tTB\)" <jeff@truthbrew.com>
  Re: The making of Barleywine ("-S")
  MCAB VI Announcement ("Louis Bonham")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 05:31:55 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: The making of Barleywine Hi all, I'm going to make my first Barleywine next week, and am looking for a few tips on fermenting it out. It's going to be 5 gallons of a 1.100 OG beer. I made a 5 gallon batch of Cream Ale Saturday so I would have plenty of yeast next week to pitch on. I use O2 to aerate with. Yesterday, when talking about starters, our resident -S said "...Incremental additions of concentrated wort is exactly how the very high alcohol beers are made using normal brewing yeast - it causes less stress but still too much to accept in a starter." This sounds like a good idea. I could ferment the first 3 gallons of wort, then add a gallon at a time every 2 or 3 days. To keep the wort clean and bug free I could sterilize the wort in a my pressure cooker for 20-40 minutes in gallon jugs just after the boil, and just let them sit in the pressure cooker till needed. Cooking the wort at that high temp will help darken and caramelize the wort a little, just what you would want for a Barleywine. Thanks in advance, and I'm open to any and all suggestions, whether I follow them or not. Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 05:39:11 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Barleywine question again Forget to ask, I wonder if the 2 gallons of wort added later should be aerated with O2 before adding to the main beer? Me thinks not. Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:52:37 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: steam-rolled barley Steam-rolled barley refers to the process of barley kernels (sans husk) that have been pressed through two metal rollers heated with steam. The process quickly gelatinizes the starch in the barley kernel without pulverizing it. In doing so, any enzymes are destroyed. Simply put, this is the barley equivalent of "quick oats". It's used in stouts and other beers to (supposedly) improve head retention. Cheers! marc - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:55:54 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: getting soda smell out of kegs Hey all, I happened upon two cornies that still held some soda syrup being recycled. After my happy "free keg" jig I took them home, rinsed, replaced all the o-rings, rinsed with boiling water, and filled with more boiling water + 1/2 c. of baking soda, shook, left overnight, and rinsed again. Still smells vaguely like soda. Any thoughts on how to best get this smell out of the kegs? My newest pilsner will thank you. Thanks. Marc - -- Marc Sedam Associate Director Office of Technology Development The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 308 Bynum Hall; CB# 4105 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-4105 919.966.3929 (phone) 919.962.0646 (fax) OTD site : http://www.research.unc.edu/otd Monthly Seminar Info: http://www.research.unc.edu/otd/seminar/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:43:29 -0500 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us> Subject: Re:Nitrogen and hops don't mix Steve ("-S") notes reports that have shown that beer kept under nitrogen resulted in degraded hop character. Very interesting. I wonder if this could apply to hops stored in nitrogen-flushed bags as well? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:56:15 -0500 From: Travis Dahl KE4VYZ <dahlt at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Starter wort gravity revisited >If you intent to grow yeast with some degree of respiration (which is very >efficient and can produce high quality yeast) then glucose repression is bad >news. If you just intend to let your starter ferment out anaerobically - >it's much less of an issue *BUT* the fact is that yeast do not like the >stress of high gravity fermentation. Ideally yeast prefer growth on ><10P(<1.040SG) starter wort. Yeast grown on 15P(1.060SG) or higher wort >should be discarded - the hi-gravity stress causes performance problems. It >is an error to think that growing yeast in a high gravity starter prepares >then to thrive in a hi-gravity fermenter. It just stresses them into worse >performance when pitched. This has implications for people trying to reuse the yeast cake from a previous fermentation. If I'm just dumping the new wort onto the old yeast, it sounds like I need to make sure the previous beers were all under 1.060 (and preferably under 1.040). Is this a reasonable interpretation? What can I do to help out the yeast in a situation like this? (add nutrients? wash the yeast and use it to create a new starter?) Travis Dahl [1.8, 98.3] Apparent Rennerian A.K.A. A2, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:40:03 -0800 From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com> Subject: Sugar in Secondary? Greetings all...I have been looking into techniques for brewing high-gravity belgian strong ales, and have found a number of references to adding sugars at some point after primary fermentation commences (such as in the secondary). I was hoping that someone might be able to comment on a) why this would be preferable to adding the sugar in the main wort boil and fermenting it during primary fermentation, which is my usual practice, and b) how to go about this without significantly diluting out your fermenting wort. Any input appreciated, Mark Tomusiak Boulder, Colorado Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:42:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Gregory D. Morris" <gmorris at literati.com> Subject: Re: Re: Peppers in beer Dan McFeeley wrote: Result? He loved it. Lapped up every bit. ... To keep this beer related, yes the dog loves beer. ... I've noticed the same thing about some dogs. My wife's old dog would eat wasabe like it was candy... Maybe its time to brew a pepper beer (just for the dog, I can't drink that stuff ;) And my dog goes nuts when I open a beer (she's stolen more than one bottle from the coffee table.) However, my dog is a little picky about her beer... For instance, the fermentation stuck on a stout I made, and I'm pretty sure it was infected. I let my dog try it, and she wouldn't have anything to do with it. Yet when I opened a bottle of a spectacular red ale, she wouldn't leave me alone. I ended up giving her a little splash, and she just went wild... she wouldn't leave me along until she got some more. She also loves eating the spent grains (although my wife says she can't anymore because... well, let your dog eat a big pile of spent grains and find out ;) - -- Gregory Morris Web Developer Literati (304) 296-8026 ext.139 gmorris at literati.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:25:13 -0500 From: Budris <budris at optonline.net> Subject: Copper and PBW - long term contact Does anyone know if there are problems associated with leaving copper in contact with PBW for any length of time? I have a copper counter-flow chiller and I am thinking of storing it filled with PBW rather than empty or with sanitizer in it. -Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:05:13 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: RE: convoluted copper cfwc Randy, I have the St. Pat's convoluted copper counter flow wort chiller. Other sources seem to have almost identical units from the descriptions I've seen posted. The St. Pat's chiller I have works great. The larger diameter (than a homemade unit I had previously) empties my kettle faster. I'm still getting within a few degrees of the inlet water temperature so the convolutions work well. The convolutions are not in the wort line, they are in the space between the wort line and the outer copper tube. The cold water is forced to swirl around these convolutions giving better heat transfer. I've found no problem cleaning the unit. During the boil I pass 5 gallons of boiling water through the chiller. After use, I do the same thing. I use partially drilled rubber stoppers as caps on the ends to keep insects, dust, etc. out. No issues or problems with the chiller after a couple years of use. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:16:53 -0500 From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu Subject: re-using yeast (secondary/ or primary)? I have been re-using my yeast,...ususally from the primary,..for 3 times, and on occasion, for 4 times and have had pretty good results. I find that if I can brew again with the yeast in the primary,...just before it craps out,...that it takes off real quickly (short lag time) and I suppose that this is good... A while back someone said that they prefer to use the yeast from the secondary in that 1) it had less trub, and 2) it was 'stronger' or more healthy in that it was the yeast that had survived... Any thoughts on this issue? I am going to try make a Saison, re-using yeast that has only been used once before...but is the small cake on the bottom of a Pale Saison from the secondary... I have not washed yeast yet,..but perhaps should learn that as well.... Happy Brewing! ..Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:18:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Jeff Halvorson \(tTB\)" <jeff at truthbrew.com> Subject: Motorizing a Mill (DC or AC motor) I would like to motorize my Crankandstein CGM-2A grain mill. What are my best options? I have read the excellent article by Mike Dixon on using a 1/8 HP motor and v-belt to rig up a pulley system (http://hbd.org/carboy/motorizing_a_malt_mill.htm). While this method seems decent, I thought I would see if anyone else had other suggestions or information. My concerns/questions: How will it handle stones in the malt? I'm assuming a pulley would just slip as opposed to damaging the mill or motor. With the above concern in mind, is there a good way to motorize without have to have exposed pulley system? Of course you can build a box around the pulleys to keep them hidden, but are there other options? Are DC motors an option? Outside of needing a power transformer, are there any advantages/disadvantages to them? Any suggestions or examples? Thanks for any input. Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:26:43 -0500 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: Re: The making of Barleywine Bill Tobler says ..., > I'm going to make my first Barleywine next week, and am looking for a few > tips on fermenting it out. It's going to be 5 gallons of a 1.100 OG beer. > I made a 5 gallon batch of Cream Ale Saturday so I would have plenty of > yeast next week to pitch on. I use O2 to aerate with. > > Yesterday, when talking about starters, our resident -S said "...Incremental > additions of concentrated wort is exactly how the very high alcohol beers > are made using normal brewing yeast - it causes less stress but still too > much to accept in a starter." The method in incremental feeding to achieve very high alcohol results works something like this. You start with say 15P wort and pitch generously.. Then when the gravity of the fermenting wort-beer drops below some predefined level 10-13P for example, a measuered amount of very high gravity wort or syrup is added in order to keep the apparent extract of the fermenter in the 10-13P range. The calculation of the 'effective' OG of all the combined feedings and the original wort is straightforwards. > This sounds like a good idea. I could ferment the first 3 gallons of > wort, then add a gallon at a time every 2 or 3 days. [...] > Thanks in advance, and I'm open to any and all suggestions, > whether I follow them or not. I'm pretty sure that first fermenting half a batch of 25P wort then adding incremental amounts of 25P wort will NOT have a positive effect on the yeast performance. The point of incremental feeding is to limit the fermentables concentration during fermentation and so the osmotic pressure. Forcing the yeast to handle the initial 25P is the problem which incremental feeding avoids. Perhaps you could separate first (very hi-grav) runnings or else add any extract as hi-grav increments and get the job done. Some othre factors that are known to improve hi-grav fermentations include excesses of certain amino acids (don't skimp on FAN content) and also removal of CO2 by the inclusion of nucleation sites (like acid washed sand or cleaned fiber). At least shake some of the CO2 out periodiccally. ... >Forget to ask, I wonder if the 2 gallons of wort added later should be >aerated with O2 before adding to the main beer? Me thinks not. I *think* there must be some oxygen addition with the incremental feeding, but I'm not sure. Someone once posted a website of a brewery (Sam Adams ? Rogue ?) which described incremental feeding. I don't have the link. Best of luck Bill - big fermentations are difficult. Be prepared to repitch. -Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:39:14 -0600 From: "Louis Bonham" <lkbonham at houston.rr.com> Subject: MCAB VI Announcement Greetings all: *Whew*! Just when I was getting near panic about finding a host for MCAB VI, Rex Halfpenny has just stepped up to the plate and has agreed to do the honors for the Sixth Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing. Sponsors will be Michigan Beer Guide and Dragonmead Microbrewery in Warren, Michigan, with the usual assortment of Michigan clubs pitching in. Date TBA (sometime in the Spring of 2004, probably) -- stay tuned. All of this "bent-kneed running about and dancing behavior" in finding a host for MCAB VI has got me thinking ahead . . . if you know of a solid, established club or assortment of clubs that is interesting in hosting MCAB VII in 2005, please raise this issue and drop me a line. Yes, there have been many killer MCAB's in the past, and trying to top some of them could well be a fool's errand (e.g., opening night reception in the Caucus Room of the Canon House Office Building on Capitol Hill at MCAB V!). Nevertheless, don't think that you have to top everything that has come before -- what is needed are clubs that can run a top-notch comeptition and a gathering of beergeekdom! Kick it around with your beer amigos and let me know. All the best -- Louis K. Bonham Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing Return to table of contents
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