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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  RE: bottle washer (Brian Lundeen)
  cloudy beer (Darrell.Leavitt)
  conicals and mill power (Marc Sedam)
  5th Annual Palmetto State Brewers Open, Dec. 6 ("H. Dowda")
  Re: Refractometer specific gravity conversion ("Rob Dewhirst")
  RE: Basement Brewing ("Sam Boman")
  RE: Origin of Hops? (CM Henry)
  re conical racking port ("Stephen Weiss")
  the virtues of dark beer ("Christopher T. Ivey")
  RE: Motorizing a Mill (Jeff Berton)
  refractometer calibration and st pats cfc (stpats)


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Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:57:51 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: bottle washer

Mike Sharp writes:
> 
> I saved my old dishwasher when I replaced it.  I've been 
> thinking about ripping out the dish rack,  plumbing some 
> pipes inside, connecting them to the pump, and every few 
> inches, stub a small (1/4") pipe up to hold the bottles.  A 
> brass pressure washer nozzle might be nice for the end of the
> small pipe/tube, but may not be necessary.   While most of 
> the water would
> be directed inside the bottles, I think leaving one of the 
> rotating sprayers to clean the outside of the bottle would be 
> a good idea, assuming it doesn't rob too much of the water pressure.
> 

Well, fate smiled on me today and deposited a Kenmore dishwasher into my
hands at no cost. Apart from the hit my karma takes every time I impose on
friends with pickup trucks.

Pressure is my big worry. I wonder what kind of pressure dishwasher pumps
put out, and how many bottle nozzles that could realistically support. Since
I keg, this project will be for my wine bottles, so I want to make sure I've
got a good strong stream that can blast the top (well, bottom) of a 750ml
bottle. I'm also thinking the extended spray nozzles are probably a good
idea to get the water outlet above the level of residual water as it tries
to drain out of a restricted neck opening.

How do I determine the volume of water that is brought in to mix with the
detergent for the wash cycle? Does it all come in at once? I think this is
important to know to get the right concentration of cleaner.

The choice of cleaner is also important. I use PBW but largely for soaking.
I did try spray washing with it using my bottle sanitizer, and it got most
bottles clean, but some persistent red wine deposits did not come off. Maybe
the longer cycle times of a dishwasher would help, but I do notice that the
Cask commercial unit uses a chlorinated caustic cleaner. Not sure I want to
mess around with that stuff.

With regard to leaving the upper arm in to clean the outside of the bottles,
it's a nice idea if it doesn't take away too much from the pressure, but
then you need to be worried about labels coming off in mid-cycle and gumming
up the works. If you are going to have an external wash, I think pre-removal
of the labels is essential. 

Now maybe I'm just missing it, but I get the impression the idea of building
a multiple bottle washer hasn't been pursued very much. Perhaps this will
start a whole new wave of bodgering and that one day, dishwasher conversions
will be as common as keg conversions in amateur circles. 

Cheers
Brian, in Winnipeg



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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:58:32 -0500
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: cloudy beer





Tim;

Without the recipe, ie grain bill, it is hard for us to advise you or guess
as to the reason for the hazy beer...

Sometimes if you add some wheat, for ex, and the mash temp is too high,
then the large proteins don't get degraded sufficiently...

Please post the recipe, and some will help, I am sure...

 ..Darrell



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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:43:12 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: conicals and mill power

I use a 15 gallon plastic conical from Hobby Beverage, which is way cool 
and much cheaper than the stainless options.  I have brewed in this for 
almost a year now and absolutely love it.  My version has a 1" full-port 
valve on the bottom for dumping yeast and a single hole as side-port 
(with ball valve) for wort samples.  I check the fermentation more 
regularly now that I don't have to open up the fermenter.  As for not 
having a rotating racking arm...the beer runs clear out of the side 
port.  When the volume in the fermenter comes close to the hole I just 
tip the fermenter to get the rest of the beer.  I may waste about 6oz of 
beer this way yet I save $100 by not having that arm.  Whatever beer is 
left in there gets shaken up with the yeast and dumped/stored/reused for 
the next batch.

I've been very interested in the whole "powering your mill" discussion. 
 I have a 16v Porter-Cable cordless drill that hooks right up to the 
post on my Schmidling mill.  Just tighten the chuck on the post and it's 
all good.  I've crushed hundreds of pounds of grain this way.  Easy.

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:34:44 -0800 (PST)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: 5th Annual Palmetto State Brewers Open, Dec. 6

Final call for entries and judges for the bigger and
better 5th Annual PSBO.

Entry deadline for fee and paper, November 29!!

The competition site:
http://www.sagecat.com/psb/psbo5.htm

The prize donors site:
http://www.sagecat.com/psb/psbo5donors.htm

A site for jerks:
http://www.sagecat.com/justforyou.htm

Highlights of this years competition:

1. All you want to enter for $54 (13th and up are
free)
2. 3rd Annual Just Good Beer Brew Off.
3. Separate competition for mead and cider with 1-2-3
BOS or those classes.
4. Cash awards ($50, $30, $20) for 1-2-3 in the
sanctioned beer competition.
5. Lunch 'on the grounds' (home-cooked brats, burgers,
beer and trimmings) for judges and stewards.
6. Low pressure venue for quality judging.
7. Finals of the hotly contested Carolinas' Brewer of
the Year and Club of the Year Competition.




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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:04:45 -0600
From: "Rob Dewhirst" <rob at hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: Re: Refractometer specific gravity conversion

> While the subject is on the table, is there such a thing as a quick and
> easy chart to show refractometer readings with a corresponding specific
> gravity number?
>
> All I have been able to locate is (for me) a very complex math formula
> for conversion. I am an artist and gosh darnnit, it's just over me head.

I believe there is on in "New Brewing Lager Beer".

Promash will also do this for you, even the demonstration version.  If you
had a little patience, you could construct your own chart from its
conversions.



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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:34:13 -0600
From: "Sam Boman" <srboman at earthlink.com>
Subject: RE: Basement Brewing

Jim,
    I also brew in the basement with natural gas.  I have a hood over the
brew kettle and I alos open a window to let outside air in to keep the
danger of CO to a minimum.  Like Todd says it is a good idea to have a CO
monitor in the house as a safeguard and check your gas lines
periodically for possible leaks.  I have found that the CO levels even with
the window closed is kept down with the vent hood running at full steam.
The only drawback so far has been the heat build up in the summer, hit has
required me to use a double counterflow system in the warmest months to pull
the temperature down on the wort going to the conical. The burners really
get the room warm!

Sam Boman
Lincoln, NE





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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:03:10 -0800 (PST)
From: CM Henry <windsailor97 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Origin of Hops?

As far as I know, Hops were arrived at due to their
preservative properties.

Apparently other types of additives or what we might
call spices/herbs were used long ago to help preserve
alcohol.  My guess is no one would really relate to
beer made a thousand years ago.  But it is easy to see
why hops may have been the herb of choice due to its
pleasing aroma and potential medical benefits at that
time.

There are comments out there of name origin. The
English name Hop comes from the Anglo-Saxon hoppan (to
climb)etc.

Here is someone's interpretation...

http://www.coopsmaps.com/beer/hops.html

Interesting but unverified.

Enjoy!




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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:29:52 -0500
From: "Stephen Weiss" <stephen_weiss at msn.com>
Subject: re conical racking port

I agree that due to side wall adheasion of yeast,
that you can't use the bottom drain.  I however
have a low cost method of draining clear beer
without having to drill another hole and invest
in a rotating racking port.  The bottom of my
dump valve points straight down and has male
threads, I screw on a sanitized nylon nipple for
1/2 tubing.  A 10" piece of stainless steel racking
cane just happens to fit snugely inside.  To the
other end if the SS tube I attach a 3/8" clear
vinyl tubing, pinch clamped closed.  Once
assembled I open the dump valve and slide
the SS tube into the conical, I open the pinch
valve and drain the fermenter.  I can then
withdraw the SS tube until I see yeast in the
tubing and re close the pinch valve.



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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:52:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher T. Ivey" <cti3c at unix.mail.virginia.edu>
Subject: the virtues of dark beer

Dark Beer May Be Better for the Heart
Flavonoids in Dark Beer May Help Prevent Blood Clots

By Peggy Peck
Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD
on Tuesday, November 11, 2003
WebMD Medical News

Nov. 11, 2003 (Orlando, Fla.) -- The real beer argument is not "Tastes
great" vs. "Less filling." It's dark vs. light, and the winner, according
to a University of Wisconsin heart researcher, is dark brew because it can
help prevent blood clots.

John D. Folts, PhD, professor of medicine and director of the coronary
thrombosis research laboratory at the University of Wisconsin in Madison,
tells WebMD that dark beer is rich in flavonoids, which have powerful
antioxidant effects.

"It's about color. You can see the flavonoids in products on the shelf," he
says. The rich flavonoid content makes red wine more heart friendly than
white wine and purple grape juice a better choice for toddlers than white
grape juice, he says.

Folts presented his dark beer-light beer study at the American Heart
Association's Scientific Sessions 2003. Folts and his colleagues fed dark
and light beer to dogs that had narrowed arteries in their hearts, similar
to the narrowing observed in people with heart disease.

Only dogs fed dark beer had less stickiness of their blood clotting cells,
says Folts. This was true even though the blood alcohol level in the dogs
was the same.

He says he is currently conducting similar tests in humans. In that study,
volunteers drink two bottles of either light or dark beer a day. Early
indications are that dark beer again is more active at fighting blood clots
than light beer, he says.

"We are also testing purple grape juice and non-alcoholic red wine," he
says. In each case, the dark beverage demonstrates superiority to light
colored beverages.

Are Flavonoids the Key?

Valentine Fuster, MD, PhD, director of the cardiovascular institute at
Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York, says he is not convinced that
flavonoids add anything to the already well-known heart protective effect
of alcohol. "We know alcohol works," he tells WebMD. In order to prove that
flavonoids add anything to the alcohol benefit, human studies are needed.

Also, Fuster, who was not involved in the study but who has studied the
relationship between alcohol and reduced risk for heart disease, says all
alcohol studies should be approached with caution. "There is always the
risk that the data will be misinterpreted and people will consume too much.
Any more than two drinks a day is too much."

For those who are dark beer drinkers -- or drinkers of red wine or purple
grape juice -- Folts says they can gain the maximum heart benefit by
"drinking these beverages with meals" so that they can fight the increase
in free radicals that occurs when the body begins to metabolize food. Free
radicals trigger oxidative stress, which has been linked to heart disease
and inflammation, says Folts.

- ----------
SOURCES: American Heart Association Scientific Sessions 2003, Orlando,
Fla., Nov. 9-12, 2003. John D. Folts, PhD, University of Wisconsin,
Madison. Valentin Fuster, MD, PhD, Mount Sinai Medical Center, New York.









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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:01:10 -0500
From: Jeff Berton <jeff344 at galaxy.lerc.nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: Motorizing a Mill

Jeff Halvorson wrote:
> With the above concern in mind, is there a good way to motorize without
> have to have exposed pulley system?  Of course you can build a box 
> around the pulleys to keep them hidden, but are there other options?
 ...
> Are DC motors an option?  Outside of needing a power transformer, are
> there any advantages/disadvantages to them? 

There are plenty of motors available with built-in gearboxes.  Gearbox
motors are compact and they can be inexpensive.  I chose a motor that more
or less duplicates the human physical effort of cranking a mill.  For $40, I
bought a reconditioned AC gearhead motor that delivers an arm-like 30 in-lbs
at 62 rpm (continuous duty).  They're still available at the e-tailer I
used, whose name I can provide on request.  

However, some AC motors do not come equipped with all necessary power
conditioning gear, and this e-tailer ran out of the companion 10 MF
capacitors.  If you got something similar from another source, you could
just plug it into a household outlet as I do.

I directly connected the motor to my Glatt mill using inexpensive (under $5)
Lovejoy jaw shaft couplings.  I bolted everything to a 2x1 ft piece of
plywood.

As it happens, I brewed last week and I finally joined the others whose
plastic Glatt mill gears gave out.  Jack Schmidling's warnings came too late
for me.


Regards,
Jeff Berton
North Royalton, OH






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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:49:15 -0600
From: stpats at bga.com
Subject: refractometer calibration and st pats cfc

Sorry to jump in but I think the most likely source of the 
gentleman's problem has been overlooked.

A REFRACTOMTER WITH ATC MUST BE CALIBRATED IN A ROOM AT 68 F. 
Calibration at another temperature leads to errors. For example, 
calibration at 75 F will lead to large errors. The error is not 
simply an offset, i.e., you might be off by 5 Brix on a 20 Brix 
solution and 3 Brix on a 10 Brix solution. From a practical view, I 
have found that calibration in a room at 70 F results in quite small 
errors.

This is the far and away the most common user error with 
refractometers with ATC. Part of the problem is the incorrect or 
vague info in articles (see BYO a month or two back for example). 
This info is in the instructions but it is at the end, (after you 
have already nulled the instrument and messed it up!) and usually not 
stated bluntly.

A refractometer with ATC is distinguished from one without by the "20 
C" that is visible when looking at the scale through the eyepiece. 
This is the temp (=68 F) that the instrument must be nulled at.  I 
have a refractometer that is 3 years old and I have never calibrated 
it and it works fine.

Just a plug, we will soon have 0-10 Brix refractomers with greater 
resolution than the 0-32 Brix. These will be more appropriate for 
brewers. Also will have refractometers that measure alchohol 0-80% 
(not potential alcohol which is simply Brix with different numbers)

As regards the thread on the chiller--The convoluted copper in our 
chiller has convolutions on both inside and outside of the inner 
copper tube. Both the chilling water and the wort experience 
turbulence.  The only cleaning problem I am aware of is the tubing 
brush that got stuck and resulted in the gentleman buying another 
unit. btw, I have cut open every competitive counterflow. The size of 
the inner coil of our chiller was determined by simply measuring its 
volume and comparing that to conventional refrigeration tubing 
volumes.

There is something called finned tubing that is straight walled 
tubing with fins spot welded to it. We played around with that 
several years ago but its nearly impossible to coil without bending 
the fins. There is also tubing with channels on the inside (greater 
surface area) and smooth on the outside and we played around with 
that as well. We also looked at 0.020 wall thickness copper (as 
opposed to the 0.035 standard refrigeration copper) but that would 
crimp in a slight breeze ;-)

Hope this helps,
Lynne


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