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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Nominations For the Board of Advisors ("Rob Moline")
  RE:  slightly OT- sparkling wine (Bill Tobler)
  plastic vs glass fermenter temperature. ("-S")
  Digest vs individual posts ("Dave Draper")
  RE: Non-Digest version (Brian Lundeen)
  Exess flour from Valley Mill... ("Cave, Jim")
  Beer can turkey (Jim Bermingham)
  Care and nurturing of counterflow chillers (Wally Doherty)
  Correct Units for Potential Yield ("Todd Carlson")
  splenda and malto-dextrin (Randy Ricchi)


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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 00:38:42 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Nominations For the Board of Advisors

			Nominations For the Board of Advisors

     The American Homebrewers Association (AHA) Board of Advisors is taking
nominations for candidates for election to the Board of Advisors in the 2004
elections. Candidates must be members of the AHA and will serve a three year
term.  We are seeking homebrewers with a rich history of participation to
help guide the AHA in its future. The BOA has brought to the membership
elections to the Board, member run National Homebrew Conferences and the Pub
Discount Program to name a few of our successes.  All current members of the
AHA Board of Advisors have been elected to their positions.
     For more information please review
http://www.beertown.org/aob/ahaboa.html for info on the BOA and
http://www.beertown.org/aob/pdf/aha_bylaws.pdf for the Bylaws.

     Nominations must be accompanied by Candidate Statements and Brewing
CV's...photo's appreciated.

     Do you want to help improve the organization and contribute to the
world of
homebrewing?  If you, or someone you know, would like to be considered for
the AHA Board of Advisors, please forward your nomination to the email
address below. Nominations will be open through December 16.

Rob Moline
Secretary
AHA
jethrogump at mchsi.com

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:28:41 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE:  slightly OT- sparkling wine

Mike is trying to serve a sparkling wine on tap and said he gets nothing but
foam.  That's an interesting idea.  IF you are using 3/16" ID tubing, you
should get 2.7 psi pressure drop/foot.  So you would need about 11' of
tubing.  The 1/4" ID tubing gets about 1 psi/ft drop.  But you probably
already know this as you have 3 beer taps on line.  Have you tried lowering
the keg pressure to serve, then raise it back up when done?  It might help.
When I overcarbonate a keg, I usually can't get it out until I decarbonate
the beer over a few days.  You might have to settle for 2.5 volumes of CO2
and just have a "Slightly-sparkling wine"

See the post below from Dan Listermann back in June.  Apparently, you can
make a clamp out of two pieces of wood and a C-Clamp and just dial in your
foam rate. Not sure if this would work with a high-pressure wine.

http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4283.html#4283-7

Good luck!

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:11:30 -0500
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: plastic vs glass fermenter temperature.

My initial test indicates that my estimate of the thermal resistance from
the 'wort'  to the environment was too high.    I set up a plastic pale w/ a
100W aquarium heater and this reached a steady-state 28C above ambient temp
 ... unfortunately I couldn't defeat the internal thermostat and so this is
with roughly a 75% duty cycle (abt 75Watts avg). I'll have to work on that
and measuring the power more carefully.

That makes the thermal resistance about 28C/75W or  0.37C/W.  My
recollection that ballparked the figure at 0.72 was too high by abt a factor
of two.

The energy released in a 20L 12P ferment is about 1280 kJoule.  If this
energy was released steadily over 36 hours (that's 0.1296 megaseconds for
those who insist on metric) the power released would be 9.8 Watts.  The
fermenter temp would rise to about (9.8*0.37) or 3.6C (6.5F) above ambient.

Glass in place of plastic should ferment cooler by about 0.13C(0.23F).   Not
much.

Caveats ... I expect that the water in my test setup does nor circulate like
wort in an active fermentation.   The extra circulation in a real fermenter
will decrease the thermal resistance and lower the temp above ambient from
that calculated ... perhaps considerably.  Typical ferments don't proceed
evenly over 36 hours but instead peak sharply.

 -Steve





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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:46:59 -0700
From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name>
Subject: Digest vs individual posts

Dear Friends,

Greg Lehey asks in #4402 about the digest nature of HBD and asks 
why there can't also be individually delivered messages as well as 
digest form, "like other lists".

Greg, from my own experience in ten years on and off the digest, I 
believe having the digest-only form is far better than the individual 
thing.  The HBD did go to that option some years back, and for a 
variety of reasons the instant-reply, to my way of thinking, resulted in 
a very serious degradation of signal-to-noise as flame wars erupted 
the likes of which had not been seen in many years here.  It seemed 
that having that instant-feedback thing going on brought out some 
serious crankiness on the part of many people, and they'd get into a 
shouting match back and forth in flurries of emails that those of us 
who remained in digest mode would only see as long trails of short, 
back-and-forth, acrimonious exchanges.  Frankly, this was one of the 
major reasons I gave up on HBD at that time and why I've been gone 
so long-- that kind of behavior gets really old really fast.  I hasten to 
add that going to invidual-mode did not suddenly convert the entire 
HBD readership into a mob of flaming ranters; obviously there was 
still plenty of good stuff to be had.  But the noise levels, for my tastes 
anyway, substantially eclipsed the signal.

The "forced" delay of having the digest appear just once per day, in 
my view, helps foster the collegial tone that has made the HBD far 
and away the most valuable web resource on any subject I've ever 
encountered.  I greatly hope the format remains as it is.

Cheers, Dave in ABQ
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David S. Draper, Institute of Meteoritics, Univ New Mexico
David at Draper dot Name
Beer page: http://www.unm.edu/~draper/beer.html
 ...we are usually at the mercy of gravity. ---A.J. deLange






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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:28:24 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Non-Digest version

> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:54:23 +1030
> From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
> Subject: Non-digest version?
> 
> This is 
> the only list I know which is available in digest-only form; 
> couldn't people have a choice of digest or individual 
> messages, like with other lists?
>  
As someone who subscribes to a brewing list that offers both, I must vote an
emphatic No to this proposal.

The big problem in the other list is the number of individual message people
who do not understand the importance of trimming the message to which they
are replying. Sometimes an entire message is regurgitated to which a line or
two is added. When you are receiving individual messages, these things
aren't as annoying as when you are trying to page down through them to find
the next message. Occasionally a call goes out to remind people to practice
better snippage, but the unwelcome behaviour soon returns.

At least here, everybody is in Digest mode, and I think that is one reason
why messages are generally well-snipped. I say, leave well enough alone. 

Cheers
Brian, imposing my will on brewers everywhere, from Winnipeg


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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:23:53 -0800
From: "Cave, Jim" <Cave at psc.org>
Subject: Exess flour from Valley Mill...

	I have been using a Corona Mill for the past 175 batches of
all-grain beer (since 1991) and when the opportunity came to by an
almost new adjustable Valley mill for $50 Cdn, I jumped at the chance.
However, while I like the intact husks, I find that to get a crush that
I consider acceptable, I find that the mill generates a lot of flour.
If I use a coarser crush, there are too many intact grains and the
efficiency drops by almost 20%. I have tried tempering the grain with a
small amount of water prior to milling, but had a poor crush (too many
intact grains). I have also tried passing the grain through twice at
different settings but still get too much flour (in my opinion).  The
problem with too much flour is with obtaining a bright run-off of the
wort.  I find this difficult and half way throught the sparge, the
run-off gets turbid again.

	So I have tried a few tricks. Any suggestions?

	Jim Cave


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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:44:48 -0600
From: Jim Bermingham <JBHAM6843 at netscape.net>
Subject: Beer can turkey

Turkey day is drawing near and most of you are planning on how you are 
going to cook your turkey.
I always fry one and I also cook a "Beer can turkey" AKA "Trash can turkey".
For those of you that have tried and like a beer can chicken, here's how 
you cook a beer can turkey.
B/M:
1 Small (10 gal) galvanized trash can (burn out the inside)
1 Small bag of charcoal
1 bottle of charcoal lighter fluid
1 wood stake (about 24 to 30 in long)
1 12 pound  turkey (completely thawed)
1 roll of heavy duty aluminum foil
1 pare of heavy duty gloves (welders gloves)
2 cans of beer

It is very important that you burn out the inside of the trash can.  You 
must remove all the Galv. from
inside the can or it could make you ill.  Simply fill the can with wood 
( sticks, tree limbs or scrap wood)
light it and burn it out.

Procedure:
1. Drive stake into the ground.
2. Place the charcoal in the lid of the trash can and light.  Burn it 
until it has a fine gray ash covering it.
3. Place foil on the ground around the stake.  Make sure to leave enough 
foil to extend 6 in  all the way
around the outside of the can when turned upside down over the stake.
4. Season your turkey with your favorite seasonings (tie legs and wings up)
5. Hang seasoned Turkey on the stake, not touching the foil.
6. Place at least two cans of beer next to the bird.
7. Place trash can over the turkey.
8. Spread  coals 1 layer thick on the top of the can ( which is the bottom)
9. Place the rest of the coals around the bottom of the can on the foil 
extending out from around the can.
Turn up the edges of the foil to hold in the heat.
10. Cook for exactly 90 min for a 12 lb turkey
11. Carefully remove the can using the gloves.
12 . Wa-La ! Melt in your mouth fallin' off the bone beer can turkey.

Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX





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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:45:05 -0700
From: Wally Doherty <wjd at email.arizona.edu>
Subject: Care and nurturing of counterflow chillers

Hey Everyone,

My brewery just made the conversion from using an immersion chiller to a 
counterflow.  It's a 50-ft. coil of 3/8" copper tubing in a garden hose.  For
those of you who use similar systems, I was wondering how you clean, sanitize,
and store them.

Thanks in advance,

Wally Doherty
Tucson, AZ



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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:18:24 -0500
From: "Todd Carlson" <carlsont at gvsu.edu>
Subject: Correct Units for Potential Yield

While preparing to do my first all-grain batch, I was getting confused
when calculating the
predicted OG from the gain bill using potential yield values.  Either I
have a fundamental
misunderstanding or the units commonly used for these numbers are
incorrect.  I'm sorry
if this issue has already been addressed, but a quick search of the HBD
turned up nothing.
Please set me straight.

The Recipator web page gives a potential yield for American Pale malt
as 37 points per pound 
per gallon (p/p/g).  The PromMash web page (and many others) give
similar numbers with the 
same units.  To predict the OG of my wort, I multiply this value time
the pounds of malt, divided 
by the gallons of wort times the expected efficiency.  So using 8 lbs
of malt in a 5 gal batch with 
a 70% mash efficiency would give 37*8/5*.7=41.4 pts or OG=1.041

HOWEVER, given this calculation, the correct units for the potenital
yeild should be 
37 point*gallons/pound or 37 points/(pound/gallon) which are not the
same as points/pound/gallon.
Thus when you multiply by pounds and divide by gallons, these units
cancel to give points.  Using the 
units as given would produce an answer of points/gallon squared.  As a
chemistry/biochemistry 
professor, I constantly tell my students how usefull units can be, when
used correctly, so perhaps
I am more aware of this issue than most.

Note added in proof - I did find a somewhat techniacal web site
yesterday that did list the units as 
point*gallon/pound but now I can't find it (alas).

Todd
carlsont at gvsu.edu




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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:25:15 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: splenda and malto-dextrin

I know there was a thread on splenda not too long ago, but it was a little 
over my head.

My wife is just starting the Atkins diet, and she loves my homemade 
rootbeer. I use rainbow  brand flavorings, and usually use .5 # 
malto-dextrin powder plus 2.5 # Sugar in a 3 gallon batch.

I'm assuming I can ignore the calories/grams of carbs in a 2 oz addition of 
extract to a 3 gallon batch of rootbeer. If this is an erroneous 
assumption, please feel free to point that out.

My question is, how many calories and how many grams of carbohydrates would 
I have in a 3 gallon batch of rootbeer made with enough splenda to be 
equivalent to 2.5 # of sugar, plus .5 # of malto dextrin. I've seen boxes 
of splenda that are advertised to be equivalent to 2# of sugar, but I don't 
recall the actual weight of the splenda. I think it was only a few ounces. 
Ideally, the answer would specify splenda and malto dextrin calorie/carbo 
grams separately, so I could decide on whether or not to include the malto 
dextrin (it does seem to add to the mouthfeel of the rootbeer).

Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.




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