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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Cola dispensers for 2 liter bottles (ferguson ct 71078)
  What do people think of this idea? (Doug Roberts)
  Re: What do people think of this idea? (CRF) (Gerard K. Newman)
  siphon hoses (mage!lou)
  siphoning, Lactobacillus (HOLTSFOR)
  Re: Chill Out (Len Reed)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #440 (June 15, 1990) (don bowmen)
  Sanitization... (James Hensley)
  Re: Recipes for cherry beer? (Mike Herbert)
  Thanks (BLCARR02)
  Infection! (Sounds like a bad horror movie.) (CONDOF)


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Date: Fri, 15 Jun 90 09:59:05 EDT
From: ferguson at x102c.ess.harris.com (ferguson ct 71078)
Subject: Cola dispensers for 2 liter bottles


I bottle my homebrew in 2 liter pop bottles.  While walking through
the grocery store the other day I noticed a device for sale that when
attached to a 2 liter pop bottle would allow the contents to be
dispensed without loss of carbonation.  The device consists of a
push-to-flow spigot and a draw tube that extended to the bottom of the
bottle.  The idea is that when you first open a 2 liter pop bottle,
you screw on the spigot in place of the bottle cap.  After that you
can draw cola from the bottle by simply pressing the button on top of
the spigot.  The cola's carbonation provides the motive force to push
the cola up the draw tube and out the spigot.

It occurred to me that this device might be useful for my homebrew.  I
could probably suck out most of the yeast sediment in the first cup or
so of liquid I draw.  Alternatively, I could chop off about 1/2" of
tubing to prevent sucking up the yeast sediment at all.  Basically,
the device might help keep carbonation in my beer if I consume it
infrequently.  It might also help to keep the beer fresher.

Questions:

1.  Has anyone ever used one of these things?  Even for cola?

2.  Does cola have enough carbonation to allow dispensing all the cola
    in a 2 liter bottle?  (I can over-carbonate my beer to compensate
    if necessary)

Thanks in advance.

Chuck

Chuck Ferguson             Harris Government Information Systems Division
(407) 984-6010             MS: W1/7742  PO Box 98000  Melbourne, FL 32902
Internet (new):            ferguson at x102c.ess.harris.com
Internet (old):            ferguson%cobra at trantor.harris-atd.com
Usenet:                    uunet!x102a!x102c!ferguson

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Date: Fri, 15 Jun 90 09:35:13 MDT
From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts)
Subject: What do people think of this idea?

> 
> These days, almost any grocery store will carry milk inoculated with live 
> _Lactobacillus acidophilus_.  It's very popular.  So:  what if one pitched an 
> ounce or two of _L. acidophilus_ milk out of a *freshly opened* quart into the 
> wort, along with the yeast to be used?  I figure the milk is pasteurized 
> before the inoculation, so a freshly opened quart could provide the bacterial 
> culture without fear of comtamination.
> 
> How might this work?  Would it compete unfavorably with the yeast?  Produce 
> too much _Lactobacillus_ flavor?  How might it affect the finished beer?

Interesting idea: don't know why it wouldn't work. Pitching a couple
of tablespoons of plain yogurt should have the same effect as well.

- --Doug
================================================================
Douglas Roberts                |
Los Alamos National Laboratory |I can resist anything
Box 1663, MS F-609             |  except temptation.
Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545   |  ...
(505)667-4569                  |Oscar Wilde
dzzr at lanl.gov                  |
================================================================

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Date:    Fri, 15 Jun 90 16:13:12 GMT
From: gkn at M5.Sdsc.Edu (Gerard K. Newman)
Subject: Re: What do people think of this idea? (CRF)

>Date: Thu, 14 Jun 90 08:10 EST
>From: CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
>Subject: What do people think of this idea?
>
>These days, almost any grocery store will carry milk inoculated with live
>_Lactobacillus acidophilus_.  It's very popular.  So:  what if one pitched an
>ounce or two of _L. acidophilus_ milk ...

Many places also carry L. acidophilus capsules;  this might be a better
way to innoculate than adding milk.

Cheers,

gkn
San Diego Supercomputer Center

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Date: Fri, 15 Jun 90 11:15:20 MDT
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: siphon hoses

In HBD #440 Patrick Stirling writes:

>Further, I use a racking tube, and filling that with water as well has
>proved impossible.

With the help of my local hardware superstore I made a cheap gadget that
simplifies many of the operations with tubing, including filling a racking tube.
I got a brass fitting that screws onto a standard faucet adaptor; it resembles
something you might screw on to cap off the faucet but there is a 3/8 inch hole
in the center of the cap.  The store tapped threads into this hole for me for
free and then I screwed in a plastic connecter (intended for use in Rec. vehicle
water systems) that is threaded on one end and is a male connecter for attaching
plastic tubing on the other.  I can now attach my tubing to this and run tap
water into the tubing at full pressure and flow.  It also works very well for
flushing my tubing when cleaning it.

While I'm on the subject of gadgets, I want to mention my best weapon in the
war against contamination.  It is flexible, thick sheet of plastic with rough
surfaces that is intended to be used for getting a good gip on stuck jar lids.
(available in most any housewares section)  I sanitize this along with
everything else.  I can pick it up carefully touching only one side and I have
what amounts to a sanitized glove for handling things that will come in contact
with my beer, like hoses, so that I never have to touch them with my hands.
Since one side never is touched (the side I touch has writing on it so I always
grab the same side) it goes back into the sanitizing tube while I'm not using
it and it will still be sanitary whenever I need it.

>One thing I've noticed with siphoning is that the seals between the
>flexible and rigid tubing are not perfect. I can hear air hissing
>into the assembly. I wonder if this could cause problems?

If you're really getting air in there then you could be getting oxidation since
the air will be well mixed with your beer.  However, there's no reason for the
seal not to be perfect.  Perhaps you need to change to a hose of slightly
smaller diamter.  Mine make a *very* tight fit such that it is impossible to
remove hose from the racking tube.

Louis Clark
mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


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Date:     Fri, 15 Jun 90 14:28 EST
From: <HOLTSFOR%MSUKBS.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:  siphoning, Lactobacillus


Here's the way I siphon.  I think I got the idea from the Brewer's Gadgets
special Zymurgy issue.  I just attach about 3 inches of tubing to the
downstream end of the racking tube, using a short piece of hard plastic tube
that fits inside both of the flexible tubes.  Once the siphon is started I
remove both short pieces and rack away.

 -----------------------------______--------
 _____________________________------________ suck here & remove this piece
                                             once siphon is started

I find this method faster than filling the racking tube with water, but
perhaps I just haven't cultivated the skill for the water trick well enough.

To make worrying during racking and bottling even less likely I always keep
some 70% ethanol around for spot-sterilization.  I like to dip the end of the
racking tube in the EtOH after I've removed the little doo-hickey described
above.  I also wipe down the outside of the racking tube as I insert it in
the fermenter or hopback.  I find it comforting to be able to sterilize
surfaces without having to rinse the sterilant off.  My friends who do tissue
culture tell me that 70% EtOH is a better disinfectant than 95% EtOH because
the 70% solution is "wetter" and therefore covers the surface better and
doesn't evaporate as quickly.  So if you care to use this technique you
should dilute your Everclear (or other brand of *grain* alcohol, NOT *wood*
alcohol) to c. 70% for better disinfection and more EtOH/$.


To Cher:  I'd be nervous about using _L. acidophilus_ for brewing unless I
knew that the _Lactobacillus_ in framboise was the same strain as that in
milk.  Even if the species names are both _acidophilus_ I'd guess that there
could easily be substantial differnces among races growing on such different
media as milk and wort.  Are there any commercially-available framboises that
you could culture from?  Failing that, I'd try culturing from a bottle of
Kriek or even Berliner weiss.  At least then you'd get a _Lactobacillus_
strain that's adapted to grow in wort and that brewers of some sort of beer
have found to work well.


Happy Brewing, Tim Holtsford

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Date: Fri, 15 Jun 90 11:40:52 EDT
From: holos0!lbr at gatech.edu (Len Reed)
Subject: Re: Chill Out

In #439 Martin A. Lodahl says:

>I was afraid it would come to this.  I hope Florian meant that
>ironically.  I've enjoyed many postings, yes, even the dream
>sequence, that were not strictly on the homebrewing subject.  I'd
>hate to see what has been a marvelously free flow of information
>from the readers of this digest suddenly shrivel, blasted by flames
>from a reader who was looking for something else.  As Ken Weiss
>pointed out, we can always page past what doesn't interest us.  Jay
>is no more the Digest Content God than I am, and I disagree categorically
>with what he seems to be trying to accomplish.

It's my opinion that Jay has taken a bad rap for his posting.  Unless
I missed followups that were stronger, he merely questioned whether
certain postings were of general interest.  For that he has been called
a censor, a flamer, a "Digest God", and perhaps a Nazi book burner.

Questioning whether a posting is of interest or is appropriate is not
the same as advocating censorship.  Those of you who think otherwise
should consider whether postings about auto mechanics should be tolerated
in this forum.

For the specific postings under discussion, the answer seems to be that there
is intestest, and that's that.  (Even if there were no interest, though,
it would be up to the "offender" to say "sorry" and quit, rather than
having the digest distributor actively cut him off.  The latter *would*
be censorship.)

It probably would have been better for Jay to have sent polite e-mail
as a first try rather than posting.  But it's better in this forum to
think well of someone's motives until proved otherwise.  I consider
"censor" to be a strong insult, and I don't think it was at all
warranted here.  The name callers are the one's who need to chill out,
or as the say in zymurgy, "Relax, Don't Worry, and have a Homebrew."

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Date: Fri, 15 Jun 90 15:07:11 PDT
From: xm50%sdcc12 at ucsd.edu (don bowmen)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #440 (June 15, 1990)

|Pleasw remove me from your mailing list.
DonB

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Date: Fri, 15 Jun 90 17:45:46 PDT
From: James Hensley <uunet!lcc!lccsd.sd.locus.com!jpaul at ucsd.edu>
Subject: Sanitization...


Patrick Stirling comments:
	Further, I use a racking tube, and filling that with water as well has
	proved impossible.

Not so!  What I do is fill a large pitcher with water, add a little bleach.
Coil up the hose and dunk it in the sanitizer for a few, while also sanitizing
the racking tube(s).  I dissamble the spring loaded bottle filler before
giving it a bath. (Because of the length and inflexibility of the racking tube, 
you may have to use a larger vessel for this, I use a cheap 10 gallon trash can
I bought new for about $3.00).  This is just to sanitize the outside.  Next,
hook up the racking tube to the hose, press the end of the hose against the
faucet, and turn the water on with enough force to push water through the 
hose and tube.  (You have to hold the tube tight against the faucet).  
When no more air bubbles come out, fit the bottle filler on the end if bottling
next, otherwise stop the end with your thumb.   Put the racking tube into the 
container with sanitizer, and start siphoning the sanitizing solution through 
the tube & hose.  (I use a big bowl to catch the output).  I like to also run 
clean water through the assembly after as well, 'cuz I use a lot of bleach.  
Put the racking tube into the wort,  siphon into your bowl until no water runs 
through, and you're ready to either bottle or prime.  
(I do this once before priming, and again before bottling).  It really works
well!

	Yours in sanitation,
		James


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Date: Sat, 16 Jun 90 12:19:09 PDT
From: Mike Herbert <michaelh at homebrew.wv.tek.com>
Subject: Re: Recipes for cherry beer?

Chuck Coronella asked recently for cherry-flavored beer recipes.
Well, here's my favorite. I got it from Charlie Papazian many years
ago.

	   "Feelix the Cat" Dark Cherry Lager:

For the boil:

3.3 lbs. John Bull dark unhopped extract
2 lbs. Munton & Fisson light dried extract
1/2 cup black patent malt
2 oz. Cascade hops
2 Tbsp. gypsum
1 tsp. salt

Steep for 30 minutes after the boil:

3 to 5 lbs. pitted, chopped cherries
1/2 oz. Hallertauer hops

(I've never actually produced a "lager" with this recipe, only an ale.
The cherries add a sweetness, but are not overpowering in a dark beer.)

- ------

I also tried one called "Sinfully Red Cherry Ale" from the
Spring 1984 issue of Zymurgy which uses 10 lbs. of cherry in a much
lighter beer.

Mike Herbert
Tektronix, Inc
michaelh at orca.WV.TEK.COM



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Date: Sat, 16 Jun 90 22:30 EDT
From: BLCARR02%ULKYVX.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: Thanks

I would like to thank everyone who posted info on how to get started in home
brewing. I found it very helpful. At this time I am making my first batch, howev
   er
I don't see any signs of fermentation. I used the blow-by but no foam built up
so I replace it with the fermentation lock. No bubbles either. It has been sitti
   ng
now for 2 days and I think it must be ruined. I payed very close att. to
sanitizing everything, does anyone know what might be wrong? Should I start over
   ?

Thanks,

Rick Pickerell

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Date:     Sun, 17 Jun 90 01:54 PST
From: <CONDOF%CLARGRAD.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:  Infection! (Sounds like a bad horror movie.)

Well, dreaded infection has reared its ugly head -- or, more exactly, its ugly
ring around the bottleneck and sickly aroma of celery. My low carbonation pale
ale has turned into a gusher. Sigh. I've been happily brewing for nearly a year
without any sign of infection, and now I've got $40 worth of infected homebrew
(2 batches).

I can't be sure why. I sanitize with 3 tablespoons of bleach per 5 gallons, and
I make fresh sanitizing solution each time. I soak all my equipment and bottles
and caps for at least 30 minutes, and I don't rinse it off. The two infected
batches are the first I've ever used a spring-loaded bottle filler on, but I
completely dismantled it and soaked in chlorine water. There was no sign of
infection in the fermenter, and both brews are moderately alcoholic (between 5%
and 6% by volume). The worse infection is in a highly-hopped pale ale.

This is really disconcerting. I'm not worried yet, but I am a little sad at
seeing fine ingredients feeding E. coli instead of me. From the aroma of
celery, I presume I have an E. coli infestation.

My question is, has anyone also sufferred this fate, and, if so, how did you
overcome it? I know E. coli is ubiquitous in human households; can anyone tell
me its mode of transmission (airborne/surfaceborne/other ways)?

I have to bottle a mild brown ale in the next day or so, and, since it is low
in alcohol and hops, I am concerned that it will be even more susceptible to
infection, and I'd like to have some know-how before I befoul a third batch.

I know I should relax and have a homebrew, but the bacteria are beating me to
having a homebrew, which makes relaxing substantially more difficult. The net's
help will be most appreciated and probably instrumental in my not worrying...

By the way, nothing dangerous is supposed to be able to grow in beer, but E.
coli doesn't exactly thrill my immune system, if you know what I mean...

*..........
 Fred Condo. System Administrator, Pro-Humanist (818/339-4704).
 INET: fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com     BitNet: condof at clargrad
 matter: PO Box 2843, Covina, CA 91722

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #441, 06/18/90
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