---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: RIMS Temperature Control ("Ronald La Borde")
  CIP Products ("Stephen Johnson")
  paint ("Jim Hinken")
  Wyeast Dutch Castle Yeast (Nick Dempsey)
  Re: RIMS Temperature Control ("Gary Smith")
  Re: RIMS Controller ("Gary Smith")
  Beer in Nurnberg (Stan Burnett)
  Re: How To Improve Heat Transfer in Brewery Vessels (Crossno Clan)
  Re: Travel Kegs (Jeff Renner)
  Re: How To Improve Heat Transfer in Brewery Vessels (Chris North)
  RIMS Proportional controller (Ken Meyer)
  Mini Brew Conical ("Harlan Nilsen")
  Brew Club ("Derrick Allen")
  Re: RIMS Temperature Control (Dion Hollenbeck)
  RIMS v HERMS ("Ronald La Borde")
  corny fermenters (Scott and Cherie Stihler)
  "On The Farm" Real Ale Story  BBC 4 ("Weaver Joseph T MAJ CENTAF-AUAB CAOC\\SG")
  beer wiki (Alan McKay)
  Rogue chocolate stout ("Mark Arneson")
  Keg transport (David Perez)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:31:15 -0600
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: RE: RIMS Temperature Control

>From: "Todd M. Snyder" <tmsnyder at buffalo.edu>
>snip....
>I'm sure people will jump all over these observations, claiming to
have
>their auto-tuning PID perfectly dialed into their system with no
overshoots
>and rapid ramps.  Just set it and forget it!  Please post your
numbers (ramp
>rates, wattage, etc) and the location of the temp probe.
>snip....

Todd, I have to agree with you about the PID. My guess is people are
almost hypnotized by the thought of a PID. Why would anyone want a
controller to slowly reduce power to the temperature stepping system
until the desired temperature is actually reached?  Why indeed.
Probably because one might be unsure of just how to avoid over
temperature.  Well, the PID can certainly solve the over temperature
problem. How? Uh, by causing an under temperature problem.

The concept of RIMS is great. The concept of a hot rod in the wort
path is terrible. Ok the trick is HERMS.  If you have this massive
container of hot water with a heat exchanger immersed in it (a coil is
one type of heat exchanger), well if the coil is big enough and long
enough, and if the water is enough (in volume - not temperature), then
you can quickly step up the mash temperature without the problem of
over temperature.  How so.  Simple, the hot water is just a few
degrees above the desired step temperature, even with a completely
stuck mash, still, you cannot go over temperature by more than a few
degrees.

The big difference here is a hot rod with critical flow and
temperature requirements verses a near-on-temperature  LARGE surface
device with uncritical flow and temperature requirements.

Hoo Hoo, if only everything in life would be so simple!

>snip....
>The question I'm getting at is why are these controllers being used
for this
>application?  They're not ideal for it based on the problems above.
The
>problem is that they are dumb.  They don't know how much water you
have in
>your system, how many watts your heater is, how much grain you have
in
>there, or what the insulative properties of your system are.
>snip....

I am the brewer, not a PID. Shucks, if I wanted to walk away from
brewing, I would just go to the pub and buy a beer.

Sorry about the figures, I am not good at taking readings.

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde





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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:24:24 -0600
From: "Stephen Johnson" <sjohnson3 at comcast.net>
Subject: CIP Products

In a very recent HBD, Ken Peters gives kudos to Straight A as a CIP
product and Rick Theiner's support of the Homebrew Digest. In
particular, he asks, "I have always wondered why PBW was usually the
first recommendation that most folks make." My guess is that many
homebrewers suffer from "commercial brewery envy" and want everything
that the big guys have and use. I'm the first to admit that I have
suffered from this syndrome. I couldn't wait to buy my own stainless
conical fermenter when I finally could afford one. I was glad to buy
some quick disconnects when I saw how easy they made hooking up CO2
lines in the brewery or various hoses in my brewing process. I jumped at
the chance of buying some PBW in "bulk" when 5 Star started selling PBW
in 8 pound containers when I saw that Boscos Brewery in Nashville used
the stuff to do their caustic cleaning after helping Chuck Skypeck and
Fred Scheer in the brewery when they were out of town. I drooled at the
opportunity to pitch quarts of Wyeast 1056 yeast into my batches of
homebrew thanks to some of the local breweries (Boscos, Blackstone, Big
River, Market Street) that that gave me yeast for free (talk about quick
lag times!...visible fermentation activity in less than 2 hours!)
However, the fact is that Logic, Inc., the makers of Straight A, has not
been able to get their foot into the commercial brewing industry to the
degree that Five Star has been able to with their products despite these
products being virtually identical. What I do know is that Rick and
Logic, Inc., have always been supportive of our club by providing
products over the years as part of their sponsorship of our homebrew
competitions and events. 5 Star has also supported us, so I am
appreciative of all that these companies do to support the homebrewing
community.

Steve Johnson
Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN






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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:08:33 -0800
From: "Jim Hinken" <jim.hinken at verizon.net>
Subject: paint

Doug A Moller wants a paint for a ss bar.:

Presque Isle Wine cellars sells a food grade paint for presses, etc.  It
should work well

http://shop.piwine.com/shopsite/prwc/product508.html
5964 Gondola Enamel, 500 cc
$8.40
A water soluble, food grade paint with good durability and resistance to
acids and caustics. Suitable for presses, crushers, gondolas, ladders,
pumps, tank hoops and interior walls. Comes in White, Yellow, Red and Black.

Jim Hinken



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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 01:59:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Nick Dempsey <npdempse at midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Wyeast Dutch Castle Yeast

> 
> I'm going to try the seasonal Wyeast 3822 Dutch Castle
> yeast and am trying to figure out an appropriate
> recipe.  Evidently this yeast was used for a beer
> called Castille, and is a Belgian style with a higher
> lactic acid production for tartness.  I am unfamiliar
> with Castille.  Does anyone have any info on this?  Or
> tried this yeast?  Any feedback is
> appreciated...Thanks!
> 
WRT the original beer--might you be referring to Kasteel? I've had their
Donker, and quite enjoyed it. My and others' impressions at 
http://www.ratebeer.com/Ratings/Beer/ShowBeer.asp?BeerID=5205

- --NPD



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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 02:53:57 -0600
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: RIMS Temperature Control

Todd is still convinced he sees a better wheel Er... Rims controller

> > Common practise lately seems to have been use of
> > "low watt-density" heaters (low number of watts per unit length),
> > often augmented by operating the heaters at half-voltage
> > (approximately quarter-power).  But that limits the heating rate.
> 
> That limited heating rate is to overcome problems with overshooting
> the target temp, and to prevent the wort from being too hot going into
> the mash. Those are the problems I see also.

Todd, Todd Todd... You can't overshoot if the heating stops at the set 
temperature and it does. If your flow is like .25/.5 gallon/minute maybe.. 
but not with a real world rims system.  I think you might be flailing at 
windmills. 

Gary



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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 02:53:58 -0600
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: RIMS Controller

 
> GS> I'm thinking still of running my ultra low watt heating element
> GS> (82" worth of element) at 220 and in that case I'll simply add a
> GS> second 50A SSR in parallel and the second line through it.
> 

> Once again, I will put forth my recommendation to not do this unless
> you want to risk caramelizing your wort and ruining a heater element.

I think this is where folklore and common sense become muddy:  

If the concern is in caramelization then how dare we think of having a 
rolling boil when the sugars are at their maximum? To have enough heat 
to cause the nearly saturated sugar solution to boil will certainly ruin the 
beer so that means we should never apply that much heat in a focused 
area. Right? Thin stainless can not disperse the heat properly and will 
caramelize so we can't use Sanke kegs to boil in & we must use copper 
kettles with thick bottoms to evenly disperse the heat.

Right?

The obvious is we all boil our beers, stainless kettles are the norm & most 
use six figure BTU propane turkey fryer heaters to do it and rarely is 
caramelization a problem. 

In the RIMS, If there is no flow past the element caramelization will be a 
problem at high element temperatures. With a normal & respectable flow 
from a march pump, it is another story. As to ruining a heater element, it's 
an inductive load. The only way you're going to damage it is if you run it in 
the absence of a liquid bath & perhaps it'll last a long time heated without 
liquid, that I don't know but why find out? Do you realize a tungsten light 
bulb gets switched on & off 60 times a second & it is white hot with heat. 
How long do bulbs last? These water heater elements aren't subject to 
those kinds of physical insults, they're much hardier than tungsten 
filaments and no, you're not going to ruin them. They last for years. 

There's just so much folklore that has become "truth".  That's one of the 
things I love about the HBD, there's a lot of experience here and a great 
place to find answers.

P.S.: A Christmas donation to the server fund would be a nice way to say 
thanks to the Janitors & all of us.

Gary

Gary Smith
CQ DX de KA1J
http://musician.dyndns.org
http://musician.dyndns.org/homebrew.html

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not 
bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.

 - Mark Twain -




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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 02:33:11 -0700
From: Stan Burnett <stanb at xmission.com>
Subject: Beer in Nurnberg


I have very limited internet access right now, so I haven't been able to 
check the archives. Sorry.

Soon I'll be driving from Prague to Nurnberg (spending a couple of nights) 
and then to Freiburg (extreme western Germany, very close to French 
border)--I'm picking up my nephew who lives with his mother in Freiburg 
and bringing him back to Tabor for the holidays with his father.

Any recommendations for beer drinking along this route?

Thanks!

Stan Burnett
Tabor, CZ


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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:22:10 -0600
From: Crossno Clan <crossno at tnns.net>
Subject: Re: How To Improve Heat Transfer in Brewery Vessels

Steven asks: "Perhaps some sort of a shroud for the bottom of the
kettle would be useful to minimize all the heat "blow-by" that seems to
occur with a typical system."

I use a propane burner, on the back porch.  In an effort to slow down
the wind, I took an old metal trash can that the bottom had rusted out
of.  Split it up the side, so I can "wrap it around" the keg/burner.  I
attached a piece of chain to some S hooks, which I can hook to the
handles to hold it all together.  Works great!  One of the best brewery
additions, in the top 10 anyway.

Has anyone painted the bottom?  How hard should I work to get the soot
off the current boiler?  At the current rate the flame is barely on to
keep a hard rolling boil.

Glyn in lower middle TN.
Drinking a Wit, a Rye Stout and hard lemon-ade.
Planning mead, spiced ale, and Barlywine.



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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:59:23 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Travel Kegs

"Chris Hart" <rhayader at bellsouth.net> asks

>how to keep the yeast that has settled to the bottom of the keg from 
>going back into suspension with travel. Is time the only resettler?

Yes, so the solution is not to have settled yeast in the keg.

There are two ways to do this.  One is to keg clear beer and 
artificially carbonate it.  The other is to rack the settled beer to 
a new keg and leave the sediment behind.

When I do the latter, I fill a sanitized keg with water and push it 
out with CO2, then I know I won't get any oxidation in the transfer. 
I hook up a "jumper" hose between the beer out fittings and push the 
beer into the empty keg, releasing the pressure as I go.  Of course, 
this means two wasted kegs full of CO2 - one to purge the empty keg, 
and another to push the beer.

Others have pointed out that you can simply elevate the full keg and 
once your beer flow starts, you can put another jumper between the 
gas fittings and it will siphon, even though the system is under 
pressure, just as you would do in an open system.  It's still a 
closed system so it won't introduce air.  It might be a good idea to 
fill the jumper with CO2 first, although the amount of air in it is 
small.

You should use a clear beer hose for this so that when you see the 
beer starting to get cloudy, you can pull the fitting of to stop the 
flow, leaving the yeast behind in the first keg.  You might hear it 
gurgle just when it gets cloudy, but if there is a lot of sediment, 
it will start getting cloudy before it gurgles.

Hope this helps you get beer to parties for the holidays.

Jeff

- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:22:57 -0600
From: Chris North <chrisn at wt.net>
Subject: Re: How To Improve Heat Transfer in Brewery Vessels

Steven P. Bellner came up with an interesting idea that

>involves spray-painting the
>bottom of the kettle with high-temperature black "gas grill" paint.
>Polished SS has a pretty high emissivity, and painting it should lower it
>considerably.

Aside from the fact that you have it completely backwards (Stainless has a
rather low emissivity and black paint would raise it considerably), this is
a very good idea.

Professionally, I am responsable, in part, for the productivity of heat
treating steel parts in a gas-fired heat treating furnace.  To save the
collective from boring details, I'll just mention that some of these parts
have areas that are machined (shiny surface) and other areas have the black
mill scale they came with from the steel mill.  When I had the heat treat
crew start painting the shiny surfaces with black paint (not high-temp
paint, just cheap rattle-can stuff), they looked at me like I had lost my
mind.  It did result is a noticable reduction in process time as the shiny
areas came up to temperature much more quickly.  While this did not earn me
a bonus, it did get management's attention.

>I wonder if this has ever been tried.  I'm always trying to improve a little
>here, a little there every time.

I am somewhat ashamed that the bottom of my converted keg is still shiny.
I have used this trick successfully in other applications, just didn't
think of it while I was brewing.  I suspect that a black bottom will
greatly improve the speed and efficiency of the heating.  A high
temperature paint is probably not necessary since stainless will start to
discolor at temperatures around 500 deg F.  The fact that my [converted
keg's] bottom is still shiny indicates to me that is stays much below 500,
and I would suspect it stays below 300.  As I mentioned, the trick is to
get a paint to stick to the stainless.  I see I have some experimenting do
do...

>Steven P.  Bellner

Thanks Steven!  While not the best information I have gained from the HBD
over the many years I've subscribed, the fact it got me to post a response
says something in itself.


chris north


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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:37:47 -0600
From: Ken Meyer <keno5 at wi.rr.com>
Subject: RIMS Proportional controller

In my RIMS I use only a proportional controller.  The heating element is 
probably the same low watt density unit used by most of the other RIMS 
users posting here.  I also agree that the slow ramp rates can be a 
concern but there are several ways to get around this. 

1.  The Idea of using 220 to quadruple the power of the heating element 
would also require an increase in the flow through the heating chamber 
to avoid carmalization of the wort and or destruction of the enzymes by 
overheating at the output.  My system although only proportional does 
have a second temperature sensor on the outlet of the heating chamber 
which will shut off the heater if the wort temperature exceeds a preset 
maximum.  The other problem would be if the flow was adjusted to allow 
the wort to remove the heat from the higher wattage at 220v the grain 
bed could be compacted and a stuck runoff may result.

2. Any RIMS system will have a hot liquor tank for heating spare water.  
This tank can also be used to boil water to be added to the mash  
helping the heater bring the mash temperature to the next rest 
temperature where the temperature controller will be able to maintain 
the temperature by adding heat at a rate equal to the heat loss of the 
system at that temperature.  The main disadvantages to this method are 
that it changes the water grain ratio and requires human intervention 
but it will rapidly raise the mash temperature especially when a large 
temperature change is called for.

If you want a completely hands off system where you determine your 
recipe, put it in and walk away you will need a PC or PLC (programmable 
logic controller) based system like the large commercial breweries use.
This discussion also begs the question which has been asked for years 
about the necessity of a step mash with the highly modified grains 
available today.

Ken




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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:51:48 -0600
From: "Harlan Nilsen" <ramnrah at nebi.com>
Subject: Mini Brew Conical

"Goose" asked about doing a secondary ferment in a Mini Brew plastic conical
fermenter.  Although I got mine when they first hit the market and it is not
as large or nearly as nice as the new ones, I believe I can relieve some
stress for him.

I have brewed many batches in mine and let them go all the way to
completion.  I have entered many contests and have never been downgraded for
oxidation.  I believe that when you drain the trub etc. off the bottom it
helps to alleviate the O2.  I do not drain mine daily as the instructions
say as it loses a good gallon of beer if you do.  I let mine ferment for 2
days, drain it off, and then do a small drain the day before kegging.  I
would not, however, let the beer sit for more than 1 or 2 days longer than
when it is finished.

It's Ok to finish your beer in it.

Harlan
32nd St. Brewery located in the center of the nation.




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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:50:55 -0500
From: "Derrick Allen" <outdoors34 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Brew Club

Looking for fellow brewers in the Cambridge, Kitchener and Waterloo  Ontario 
areas that would like to start a brew club. Please send contact info to 
derrick_allen at sympatico.ca



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Date: 13 Dec 2003 12:41:08 -0800
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com>
Subject: Re: RIMS Temperature Control

>> Todd M Snyder writes:

TMS> A typical heating rate is 1 degrees F per minute.  So a 122F to
TMS> 148F ramp would take 26 minutes, almost as long as the rest is
TMS> going to take at 148F before you continue up to a higher
TMS> saccharification temp or mashout.  What's happening during that
TMS> ramp?  The enzymes aren't sitting around waiting for the next
TMS> step.  They're going about their business as the temperature
TMS> allows.

Have to disagree with you, and so would George Fix if he still could.
This topic has come up many times over the last 10+ years I have been
using a RIMS system, and in fact, I posed much the same question to
George, and I will once again paraphrase what he said.

1)  There is an erroneous notion that highly modified malt will
    convert completely in 15 minutes.  The error in this notion is
    that the environment under which this will happen is when a
    maltster does a test to see the conversion of the batch of malt.
    The parameters in use are, a) the malt is ground to a powder, b)
    the temperature is 158F, and c) the water to grist ratio is on the
    order of 3 qts. per lb.  Homebrewers NEVER mash under these
    conditions.

2)  While it is accurate to say that all enzymes work at all
    temperatures, they work more efficiently at their own "sweet
    spot".  Alpha amylase at its sweet spot will convert much, much
    faster than beta at its sweet spot.  Beta amylase at its sweet
    spot is very slow to convert.

So, based on these facts from George, let's do the math on the ramp.
First, you have a false assumption that starch to sugar conversion
will begin at 122F.  According to George, it will not begin until the
gelatinization temperature is reached around 135F.  So, let's adjust
the equation.  The ramp which is in "danger" is from 135F to 148F.
This is a 13 degree ramp.  Even at 1 degree per minute, the danger
zone is only 13 minutes long.  This is much too little time for
complete conversion to short chain very fermentable sugars.  So, you
can get up to the 148F range while only converting a small amount of
starch to short chain sugars.

While I believed what George had told me, I still wanted to do an
experiment that would prove that on my system, the theory held true.
So, I did two identical 5 gallon batches of pale malt only.  They both
received a 10 minute protein rest at 122F, then one was boosted to
142F and got a 60 min sacchrification rest followed by a 10 min
mashout at 170F.  The second batch had the identical mash schedule
with the sacchrification rest being at 154F.  The first batch was so
thin and watery as to be undrinkable.  The second batch finished 8
points higher and had a medium thin body and was very good.  To me,
this was proof positive that only a minor amount of conversion
happened *during* the ramp.  The majority of the conversion happened
at the sacchrification rest temp of 154F.

One last thought in closing.  If your particular system does not ramp
fast enough for you, the solution is not to run the heater element at
240V, but to get another element and put it in series.  The amount of
caloric input will be raised without changing the heat density.  I run
two 6000 watt heater elements in series at 110V and on a grain bill of
20#, my ramp rate is around 1.5 degrees per minute.

A properly designed RIMS system will a) not scorch wort and b) will
allow you to manipulate rest temperatures and achieve EXACTLY the
result you want.  If a particular system will not work this way, then
it was poorly designed.  There is nothing wrong with the basic RIMS
principles, only in some individual's poor implementation.

regards,
dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck  Email:  hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:       http://www.woodsprite.com
Brewing Page:    http://hbd.org/hollen


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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:24:23 -0600
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: RIMS v HERMS

In my previous post, I probably was somewhat unclear about what I
meant about the reasons I believe HERMS is superior to RIMS.

With the RIMS  (for brevity, I will instead use R or H)  especially,
using the common hot water heater element at 120 volts, there is a
limit on how many watts can be inserted into the system. Sure, you
could go to 240 volts with 6000 or so watts.  Now this is the
clinker - I can imagine you would now have a glow plug - great if you
want a model airplane engine, but not so good for a mash wort heater.

Pay special attention to R people, notice how many times the word
scorching appears in their posts.  You see, that is a real problem if
the flow slows down. Now does that ever happen.  Hmm, some say no, but
search the archives for the word stuck for some fun.

With the R system (electric heater in a chamber), you could say you
are applying power in real time, that is - the limitation is how hot
you can get the element without scorching the wort. Real time because
you are mashing while this is going on.  With the H, you have the
large volume of water already heated before you even begin the mash,
really, you could be still crushing the grains! When it's time to
start mashing the power has already been stored in this large volume
of water. The same thing happens when it's time for the next
temperature step. You heat the water with 6000 watts if you want, get
it to temp, then and only then start the step.  Stepping can be fast
because you have the stored heat in the water just waiting there to
get happy. You can quickly get the HLT up because there is no limit to
how much power or heat you can apply without scorching.

With the H system, the heat exchange coil is sitting in the heated
water. You have the large surface area of the coil to conduct the heat
to the wort, but the wort cannot scorch because the hottest thing
around is the water at - yep you guessed it - step temperature.

Finally, friends I have no emotional feelings against R or PID's. If
you want to use a PID to heat your HLT - this is fine.  If you can get
one cheap, this is even better. The only thing I can say for the PID
is that it is a compact unit, prebuilt, probably with connection
instructions. So if you like the pretty lights, or can afford a PID,
go ahead and use one, but I do not think it is worth spending a lot of
money for one.

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde





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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 19:58:18 -0900
From: Scott and Cherie Stihler <stihlerunits at mosquitonet.com>
Subject:  corny fermenters

Patrick Hughes wrote:

>I have read here many times how some rack their beer into corny kegs when
>within a few points of terminal gravity and let this small final
>fermentation carbonate the beer. How is the corny sealed so the natural  gas
>produced by this fermentation doesn't escape? Do you just pressurize with
>CO2 first? How much pressure can the yeast handle before they stop working?

I routinely ferment beer (both primary and secondary fermentation) in 
Cornelius-type kegs.

However,  rather than seal the system before fermentation is complete 
I allow it to progress
to completion and then I add primary sugar serving keg and transfer 
the beer onto it.

Properly sealing the kegs can be a problem. Often simply pressuring 
to 20-30 psi and then
releiving pressure will seat the lid. However, this does not always work.

I've had pretty good luck spreading food grade grease along the lid 
O-ring. This grease is sold
by Williams Brewing under the name of Keg Lube though I'm it is 
available elsewhere.

However, the grease did not always result in a proper seal.

I now invert the keg after transfer beer onto the priming solution 
and allow fermentation to
progress for 3-4 days. The weight of the beer does a very good job a 
insuring a proper seal.

I usually place the keg in a 5-gallon bucket just to be on the safe 
side. I've been doing this for
about 3 years now and only once have I had significant leakage. In 
that particular case about 2.5
gallons of beer leaked out.  The keg in question always tended to be 
difficult to seal and had I check
on the progress of the keg sooner instead of waiting 3 days, I 
probably could have saved that keg of
beer.

At any rate, after 3-4 days, I upright the keg and the accumulated 
CO2 is sufficient to maintain the
seal.

I hope this helps.


Cheers,

Scott Stihler
Fairbanks, Alaska


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Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:21:38 +0300
From: "Weaver Joseph T MAJ CENTAF-AUAB CAOC\\SG"
Subject: "On The Farm" Real Ale Story  BBC 4

Brewers,
Caught most of a story on BBC 4 this morning (Sunday in the middle east Zulu
+3) about Real Ale.  You may be able to hear the story on the BBC 4 Internet
Radio site (our systems folks have us blocked so I can't send you a link).
They interviewed a craftbrewer who discussed how difficult it is to get real
ale into pubs these days.  They noted that the mega brews account for 75% of
the beer on tap in the UK.  They mentioned that you could actually look out
the pub door and see the barley growing that is used to brew the beer!
Selling this real ale in the local pub enabled the farmer to hire another
farm worker.  To me, that was the neatest part of the story.  As a
veterinarian, I'm all about supporting the local farmer!

Todd in Qatar (temporarily)






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Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:31:24 -0500
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: beer wiki

A fellow in Australia recently started a brewing wiki,
but unfortunately I do not have the link at hand.

Will try to dig it up.

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
TCP/IP: telecommunication protocol for imbibing pilsners
        (Man-page of Unix-to-Unix beer protocol on Debian/GNU Linux)


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Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:29:37 -0500
From: "Mark Arneson" <marneson at email.com>
Subject: Rogue chocolate stout


Does anybody have a recipe for Rogue Chocolate stout?

I love this beer but can't seem formulate a recipe that even comes
close.

Thanks!

Mark Arneson
marneson at email.com



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Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:54:33 -0500
From: David Perez <perez at gator.net>
Subject: Keg transport

Bob Hall asks about mobile kegging. I use two approaches. The first and 
most convenient is an Igloo cooler on wheels that I built in a very 
similar design to http://www.tote-a-keg.com/ . The May/June issue of 
Zymurgy gives a good basic description on how to make it. It cost me 
around $70 and was a nice project.

The other, more interesting transport idea, was to throw my dispensing 
freezer with it's four taps and four kegs to the 1st Hogtown Brew-Off 
party. Very impressive and really quite easy. But I promised my wife I 
wouldn't make it a habit, so I will stick to the keg on wheels for 
"most" events.

Dave Perez
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL



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