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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Dark & Sweet, the beer that eats like a meal! (Chris Shenton)
  wheat's ok, thanks (RUSSG)
  Brewing for Draft Systems (Greg Beary )
  pectin, Anchor Porter (Dick Dunn)
  Stammwuerze and Tasting (Eric Pepke)
  Steam-Style Beer Recipe, With Details For Novice Brewers (Clay Phipps)
  Request to be dropped from newsletter list (laforce)
  Is there a true light (color) malt extract? (tony g)
  Infection! (Summary of replies) (CONDOF)
  peaches and pectin (Chip Hitchcock)
  Was bedeutet "die Stammwuerze"? (CONDOF)
  re glass grenades (Chip Hitchcock)
  Digest 443 (cckweiss)
  beginning brewer and fermentation questions (florianb)
  wheat beer (florianb)
  Anchor Porter (Dave Suurballe)
   (radle)


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Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 09:43:50 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Dark & Sweet, the beer that eats like a meal!

jrs27%CAS.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>     I'd like to have something with a bit more substance to it for fall/
>     winter.  I had the good fortune to try some Old Peculiar last weekend
>     which brings me to my question:
> 
>     Is it possible to brew a beer as sweet as OP with a low level of
>     carbonation using extracts, specialty grains and natural carbonation?
>     Should I attempt this or go for a dry stout?

I should think so. Many of my extract beers came out sweeter than I
expected -- getting the dryness was my problem. I was using Doric (one size
fits all) yeast, then, and usually fermented warmer than reccommended --
70-80F -- by necessity.

As to the second question: you should attempt this, *and* go for a dry stout.


>     Does anyone have a recipe for an OP-like beer?  What yeast would you
>     recommend?  Did it store well?

Papazian mentions that OP uses Molasses in their beer. I used a very dark
blackstrap variety in a stout with some success; it resulted in a rather
carmely flavor, and not at all unpleasant. You could try priming with
molasses, rather than sugar: Papazian gives a conversion factor
somewhere...

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Date:     Wed, 20 Jun 90 09:53 EST
From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (RUSSG)
Subject:  wheat's ok, thanks

Thanks to those who helped me relax re. my wheat beer/ale. It is fermenting
quite nicely at this very moment; in fact, it started fermenting sooner than
any other brew I have made. I *did* pitch the yeast at ~82 degrees (usually
I wait until 75 or less). Is the higher temp. the cause of the quick start,
or is it the wheat content?

Russ Gelinas   R_GELINA at UNHH.BITNET

- -- My whole cellar smells of wheat and hops! I can't wait to try it......

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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 08:01:17 MDT
From: Greg Beary <gbeary at uswat.uswest.com>
Subject: Brewing for Draft Systems

I haven't yet begun to brew. I'm in the process of learning what
to do and acquiring the necessary equipment. What I'd planned on
doing was to cask my beer in 1/4 barrels and then use my 
existing home-draft-system (fridge/CO2/taps/etc) to draw it. 
I've located a source of the old Bud/Michelob 1/4 barrels that
use the Golden Gate taps (gas on top, draw on the bottom). I 
beleive that these have wooden bungs on the side.

My problem is find the other "gear" necessary to go with such 
an approach. How do you tailor the receipes/mixes for 7.5 
gallons instead of 5. Where do you get the equipment (fermentation
vessel and carboys) in a 7.5 size? 

I'd appreciate hearing from someone who uses this approach on how 
they solved the problems. Or alternately, advice not proceed as
planned. 

Thanks,
Greg

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Date: 20 Jun 90 08:31:25 MDT (Wed)
From: hplabs!gatech!ico.isc.com!raven!rcd (Dick Dunn)
Subject: pectin, Anchor Porter

Robert P. Mattie II asks about working with peaches and wonders if pectin
will be a problem.

Fruit pectins aren't normally a problem unless you boil the fruit, which
will "set" the pectin and produce a haze that won't clarify out.  If you're
afraid you might worry (or if you do something that does set the pectin)
there's an enzyme available to get rid of it--it's called (surprise!)
pectinase.  You should be able to buy it at a winemaking shop.

Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com> got onto the topic of bizarre state
laws, of which there are many.  Trouble is, there are even more urban
legends about them.

> I heard that Anchor Porter is not avialable in keg in California
> because state regulators would require Anchor to sell their Porter as
> a "Malt Liquor".  Anchor refuses. 

How's that?  They sell the porter in bottle without so labeling it.  Are
taps required to have special labels on them now?

No, sorry...Anchor did once sell their porter by the keg, but their kegging
operation was not all that large, and the logistics just made it not worth
their while to switch around for a few kegs of Porter.  As I recall, in
about '83 they only had Porter on tap at the brewery itself and it had been
a relatively recent event (within the preceding couple of years) to stop
kegging Porter.

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Date:    Wed, 20 Jun 1990 11:13:38 EDT
From: PEPKE at scri1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Subject: Stammwuerze and Tasting

"Stammwuerze" is original wort.  "Stammwuerzegehalt" is original gravity.
"Stamm" means stump or trunk, and in that quasipoetic way common to German
compound words, becomes origin or original.

Regarding tastings.  I like to hear other's opinions and analyses, but I take
them with the contents of several Utah salt mines.  The trick is to remember
that there is a good deal of personal taste involved.  Also, American tasting
judgements seem to me a bit strange.  First of all, you have people judging
brewing styles from all over the world who have not been all over the world.  I
have guzzled enormous quantities of beer in southern Britain.  Many of the
finest beers they have over there would be panned in any given AHA
competition.  Not enough "condition," too cloudy, stuff like that.  But the
stuff makes me weep for the gods, that they can only drink nectar.  The same 
goes for a genuine Weissbier, as has been mentioned before.  

Eric Pepke                                     INTERNET: pepke at gw.scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute  MFENET:   pepke at fsu
Florida State University                       SPAN:     scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                     BITNET:   pepke at fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.

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Date: Tue, 19 Jun 90 17:35:46 -0700
From: hplabs!garth!phipps (Clay Phipps)
Subject: Steam-Style Beer Recipe, With Details For Novice Brewers

The following is the recipe I used for my first batch of home-brew, as 
elaborated later based on my early brewing experiences, so that I didn't 
need to keep flipping thru Papazian's _The Complete Joy Of Home Brewing_ 
(a.k.a. CJOHB) to brew later batches of very similar beers.  
I was quite pleased--bordering on amazed--with the flavor of my first batch,
and this recipe has become my standard starting point for many later brews.

I did most of the elaboration when everything was new to me and nothing
was obvious, so I think this might be more helpful to novice brewers than
anything I might try to write nowadays.

"Anchor Steam"*-style amber                                   [1990-06-19]
- ---------------------------
 
This recipe was offered (1986-12-24) at the now-defunct Home Brewer shop
in San Jos'e, CA, as the best approximation to Anchor Steam Beer possible
with home-brew-scale extract brewing.  The extent, if any, of cooperation
from Anchor Brewing Co. in devising this recipe is unknown.  *"Steam beer"
(tm) Anchor Brewing Co.  Elaboration of recipe by C.M. Phipps.
 
ingredients:
 
   7 lb. (2x 3_1/2 lb. cans) (John Bull) plain light malt extract.
   1/4..1/2 lb. (1..2 cups)  crystal malt, cracked.
 
   2 oz. (6_1/2 loose cups)  Northern Brewer [alpha: 11] raw hops [boiling].
   1 oz. (3_1/4 loose cups)  Cascade [alpha: 5..6] raw hops [finishing].
 
  14 g. (2 pkgs.)            lager yeast [dried].
 
   5..6 gal.                 water [as directed].
 
procedure:
 
  Sanitize fermenter (i.e., 6_1/2 gal. carboy), funnel, strainer
    [cleansing: 2 fl.oz. bleach in 5 gal. water, soaked overnite;
    sanitizing: 1/3..1_1/2 tsp. (2..8 ml) bleach in 5 gal. water].
  Sanitize cap, cork, hoses, fermentation lock.
 
  Pour 1 gal. cold water into brewpot.
  Crush whole grains (crack the husks, but do not pulverize).
  Add grains to water in brewpot
    (putting grains in a mesh bag facilitates their removal).
  Bring brewpot to a boil;
    remove grains (use a strainer, or if in a mesh bag, lift it out).
  Add malt extract to pot; this is now the wort.
  Add 1/3 of boiling hops.
  After 20 min. of boiling: add another 1/3 boiling hops.
  After 20 more min. [total 40 min.]: add final 1/3 boiling hops.
 
  After 20 more min. [total 60 min.]: add finishing hops.
  Cover wort; remove from heat [total boiling 60 min.]
    (do not use any unsanitized object to stir cooled wort).
  Pour 3 gal. cold water into fermenter (you may wish to boil this water
    first, to sanitize it; if so, chill it to cool or cold).
 
  After 30 min. of cooling:
  pour wort thru strainer|filter (& funnel) into fermenter.
  Cap fermenter; place fermenter onto side; agitate to mix contents.
  Add enough water (maybe preboiled and cooled) to make 5_1/2 gal. of brew.
  Cap fermenter; place fermenter onto side; agitate to mix contents.
 
  When wort has cooled to 80 deg. F or less:
  draw brew for hydrometer measurement [do not return to fermenter].
  Pitch yeast.
  Cap fermenter; place fermenter onto side; agitate to mix contents.
  Uncap fermenter; replace cap with cork and fermentation blow-off hose.
 
[For instructions for bottling, see, for example, Papazian: 
 _The Complete Joy Of Home Brewing_ (a.k.a. CJOHB) pp. 31--34, 131--132]


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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 09:36:54 PDT
From: laforce at krypton.arc.nasa.gov
Subject: Request to be dropped from newsletter list


I've enjoyed the homebrew news, but it is now taking up too much time and
disk space.  Alas.

Please remove me from your mailing list.

Thanks, Soren       "laforce at krypton.arc.nasa.gov"

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Date:     Wed, 20 Jun 90 14:18:59 EDT
From: tony g <giannone at BBN.COM>
Subject:  Is there a true light (color) malt extract?


Folks,

I'd like to brew a light (color that is) beer using nothing but malt
extracts. The few times i've tried this i've ended up with something
closer to an amber. The last time i tried this i used 2 cans (3.3 lb)
of John Bull (light - unhopped) and 2 oz. of Cascade pellets. 

I've never worried about this and i'm not worried about it now, but i'm
curious to know if it's possible.

tony g (giannone at bbn.com)




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Date:     Wed, 20 Jun 90 11:31 PST
From: <CONDOF%CLARGRAD.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:  Infection! (Summary of replies)

Thanks to those who responded to my infection query.

Florian (florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com) suggests a total kitchen sanitizing
job. All environmental surfaces (floor, counter tops, etc.) are to be
scrubbed with a solution of 1 tablespoon of TSP per gallon of water,
then rinsed and sanitized with chlorine bleach solution.

All equipment is to be scrubbed with the TSP solution and a plastic
scrubbie and rinsed thoroughly. Hoses and racking tubes are to be replaced,
and anything disposable (such as sponges) is to be replaced. Lastly, all
bottles are to be cleaned with TSP and chlorine.

Florian suggests the use of tri-chlor for some of the chlorine jobs, but
my local homebrew shop says that's a British product that is equivalent
to a chlorine-bleach solution.

Louis Clark (mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu) says that water is a good trans-
mitter of E. coli, but suggests that, given my sanitation procedures,
the most likely source of the E. coli is accidental skin contact. He
suggests helping to kill E. coli on one's hands by specifically washing
them with a disinfecting soap, such as Dial.

Finally, Chip Hitchcock (ileaf!io!peoria!cjh at eddie.mit.edu) suggests
using a stronger solution of bleach than I use. I use 2 T. in 5 gal.,
as suggested in Byron Burch's book. Chip suggests using a solution
5 to 10 times as concentrated. This, however, requires rinsing with
water, which could negate the sanitation, according to Burch.

Chip also warns against lengthy sanitation of the spring in the bottle
filler, as the chlorine will badly corrode it.
- ---

I've closely examined my plastic bottle filler, and I've noticed that
the soft plastic plunger has a deep scar where it was previously attached
to the mold flashing. This seems like a good place to harbor bacteria,
and it's unlikely that the sanitizing solution could displace the air
there. Therefore, I've replaced my bottle filler with one of the metal
kind. That kind can't be disassembled for washing, but one can pass
rinse water through it and then immerse it in boing water for 15 mins.

Thanks again to those who replied.
*..........
 Fred Condo. System Administrator, Pro-Humanist (818/339-4704).
 INET: fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com     BitNet: condof at clargrad
 matter: PO Box 2843, Covina, CA 91722

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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 13:25:51 EDT
From: ileaf!io!peoria!cjh at EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: peaches and pectin

   I don't know whether peaches have enough pectin to seriously gel by
themselves (I don't \\think// so...). The usual recommendation for fruit
beers is to crush the fruit (try a food masher?) and steep it in the wort
\\after// you're done boiling (Papazian suggests 15 minutes at 160-190F for
his cherry beers---at >160 infection isn't likely).
   Also, make sure the peaches are RIPE; ripe fruits generally have less
pectin and more flavor.

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Date:     Wed, 20 Jun 90 12:11 PST
From: <CONDOF%CLARGRAD.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:  Was bedeutet "die Stammwuerze"?

Mike Fertsch guesses that 12,3^o Stammwuerze means the specific gravity in
degrees Plato. Checking my German-English dictionary exactly confirms this.
Stamm is the German word for stem or original, and Wuerze is the word for wort.
Thus Stammwuerze means the original [gravity of the] wort.

By the way, Wuerze normally means herb or spice; it's only in the context
of brewing that it means wort.

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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 13:19:41 EDT
From: ileaf!io!peoria!cjh at EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re glass grenades

>    What I think happened is that the two bottles in question were filled with
> very small headspace, and during the subsequent hot storage, the liquid 
> expanded to use up the entire available space, and since liquids are incompres-
> sible, KABOOM!!!

The thermal coefficient of expansion for water at room temperature is pretty
low; the temperature correction table on my hygrometer suggests .1% per 8-9 oF,
which is about what I recall being quoted from the CRC handbook. This works
out to 6-7 ml in a 2-liter bottle raised from 65F to 95F. A mere quarter inch
of headspace in a normal bottle neck would be less than this--you should 
probably measure the volume of the neck and allow an adequate headspace if
your storage temperature swings that wildly.
   On the other hand, it wouldn't hurt to see what you can devise to keep your
storage area cooler, since heat (even without light) isn't good for beer.

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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 13:16:59 -0700
From: cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu
Subject: Digest 443


re: Pat Waraa's slow ferment

So, what we've got here is a batch of beer that's bubbling very
slowly, tasted good and smelled good when racked, and was made
with quality ingredients. Sounds like a total washout to me.

Ease up, there, Pat. I don't think anything's wrong. If you're a *real*
worrier, take another SG reading in about a week, and if it hasn't
changed, bottle that stuff up. I would just bottle it right now, based 
on the lack of bubbles. I might store the bottles in the basement 
or garage, just as a concession to the remote possibility of a burst
bottle, but that's about as worried as I'd get.

re: Infections

There's been a fair amount of traffic lately concerning infected
batches. I'm going to risk the wrath of God, and everyone who's
ever had an infected batch, by admitting that I've never had an
infection (at least not one that I know about). While this is good,
it's left me with some ignorance, and I'd like to fill the gap.

First, are most infections bacterial or mold, or wild yeast, or what?
Are different infective agents specific to particular locales or 
climates?

Second, how do you tell if your beer is infected? Is it *really* obvious
or is it possible to have a more subtle, sneaky infection that would 
elude the tounge of a guzzler like myself?

Finally, if my yeast has consumed all or most of the fermentable
material in my beer, what is left to feed the infection?


In blissful ignorance,

Ken Weiss
krweiss at ucdavis.edu
cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu

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Date: 20 Jun 90 14:54:37 PDT (Wed)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: beginning brewer and fermentation questions

Patrick J. Waara asks some very basic questions in yesterday's issue.
I want to try and help since this could have been me several years ago.

>Telefords ale yeast and let it go.  It took nearly 36 hours for it to begin
>fermenting (at 65 degrees F), and now, two weeks later, it is still
>fermenting very slowly (a bubble every 2 minutes or so.)  Normally I would
>have bottled by now, but the FG is still 1.032.  I almost worried last
>night and bottled it, but I decided the best thing I could do at this point
>is wait.  (I don't want any grenades.)  The good news is that I tasted the
>beer I used to measure the specific gravity and there is no indication of
>infection.  It tastes and smells rather good.

You did the right thing by not bottling it.  You have a very normal 
fermentation going.  Relax and have a homebrew.

>That's the situation, now where do you think I went wrong?  My guess is
>(which is supported by local brewers) is that I did not pitch enough yeast.
>Two packets probably would have been better.  The next question is, what
>could I have done (or could I still do) once I had pitched insufficient
>quanities of yeast?  Should I have pitched another pack after not seeing it

You didn't go wrong.  You are learning and there's nothing wrong with what
you are doing.  But there are *improvements* you can make.  Try using a 
starter for your yeast next time.  One or two days before brewing, boil a
mixture of 1/4 # of dry light malt extract (unhopped) with 1/4 oz of any
cone hops and let it cool.  Pour it into a sanitized 1 gal jug, pitch in
the yeast, put on the airlock and wait for the yeast population to build up.
If you use dried yeast, hydrate it in 90-100 degree water first (no, this
temperature won't hurt it--see the special Zymurgy issue on yeast from
this year.)  It's better to use a pure liquid yeast culture you can 
purchase from your local friendly homebrew shop if you want improved flavor.

No, you should not pitch more yeast after you pitch the initial yeast.
It's better to wait.  Recently, I had the same problem with a liquid
culture when I didn't have time to make a starter.  Luckily, John Polstra
talked me out of pitching a dry pack into the wort.  The yeast finally
came around after 4 days.

As far as additives go, if you are using all grain or all extract to make
your beer, you don't need to add nutrients.  However, to mimick a classic
style, it may be necessary to Burtonize, depending on your water analysis.
See Noonan's or Miller's book or the Zymurgy all grain issue for more.

Happy Brewing!  Florian


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Date: 20 Jun 90 15:03:06 PDT (Wed)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: wheat beer

Russ Gelinas asked,

>I just brewed a wheat beer (BME wheat extract: 67% wheat, 33% barley malt) last
>night. It was boiling before I realized that all I had was regular dry ale
>yeast (Telford's), so rather than let the wort sit, I pitched it.  Have I made
>a mistake? I added 2 lbs. of DME to the 3.3 lbs of extract, hoping to get at
>least *some* response from the yeast. Is wheat yeast *required* for a wheat

No, you haven't made a mistake.  You are brewing a good beer, and if you
send me one, I'll confirm that.  Wyeast features a Bavarian wheat yeast
which is a mixture of two yeasts.  It is a beautiful yeast that ferments to
give off an odor that you can't resist sniffing.  But yeasts like this aren't
*required* to make wheat beer.  If you use < 40% wheat (malt or syrup) and
the rest barley, you will get a good wheat beer with any yeast.  I've done
it plenty of times.  Normally, the 40% figure is the upper limit guideline
when doing an all grain recipe.  But even that is flexible.  Recently, I
used 40% wheat malt, 12.5% rye, and the rest barley in a wheat beer.  It 
mashed and fermented well.  So experiment on, and enjoy yourself!
Florian

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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 10:01:37 PDT
From: Dave Suurballe <hsfmsh.UUCP!suurb at cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Anchor Porter

Fact:  Anchor Porter is sold on draft and in bottles in California.
       It is called Porter, not Malt Liquor.

Suspicion: I don't think the manufacturers of strong beer (more than
       4 percent) are required to call the product "malt liquor".  I
       think they are simply prohibited from calling it "beer".  Many
       call it malt liquor, some call it ale, porter, stout, IPA, etc.

Gossip: The brewers at Anchor aren't rigidly uptight about making each
       batch of Porter or Liberty Ale exactly the right strength.
       They are relaxed, and there are differences from batch to batch,
       although they are minor and I don't think I can detect them.
       With Steam Beer, on the other hand, they are very careful,
       because it is called "beer" and must be less than 4 percent
       alcohol.  I cannot distinguish between 3.9 and 4.1 percent,
       but the government can, and it cares.


Greetings from sunny California,

Suurb

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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 23:38:38 CDT
From: radle%trochos.cs.wisc.edu at cs.wisc.edu
Subject: 

Please remove me from the mailing list, this account
will be disappearing soon.
thanks

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #444, 06/21/90
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