HOMEBREW Digest #4444 Mon 05 January 2004

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  Re: First Steps ("Kevin Morgan")
  Walloping Whopping Wollondilly Wombats ("Phil Yates")
  Re: Copper and Sodium Hydroxide (Fred Johnson)
  RE:  Copper and Sodium Hydroxide ("David Houseman")
  HERMS coil ("Patrick Hughes")
  Smart & Final Bar Rinse Disinfectant Sanitizer ("Andy and Tina Bailey")
  Barrels ("William Frazier")
  Link of the Week - Jan 3 2004 - drunk (Bob Devine)
  RE:  Yeast Culture (Bill Tobler)
  removing keg labels ("Peter A. Ensminger")
  Why Do We Use Our Yeasts? ("Phil Yates")
  Re: Copper and Sodium Hydroxide (Bill Tobler)
  re: Of barrels and beer ("-S")
  re: Carbs ("-S")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 01:28:08 -0500 From: "Kevin Morgan" <kevin.morgan2 at verizon.net> Subject: Re: First Steps Spenser said >Unfortunately, this seems to be out of print. I recently did a web >search and was unable to find a place still selling it (including the >AOB/AHA). I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this -- I thought it was a >great book (I have my own copy, I was trying to find one for a friend.) =Spencer A quick Google search reveals that several online HB shops carry it, including Stoutbillys.com and Morebeer.com Kevin, brewing and Meading in South Jersey Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 20:38:27 +1100 From: "Phil Yates" <phil.yates at bigpond.com> Subject: Walloping Whopping Wollondilly Wombats This is no joke. As if I haven't had enough to worry about, trying to get my brew house up and running again. As I mentioned to Steve Alexander, it's a bit like trying to get an old submarine out of moth balls and operational. Well I've got it serviceable enough to get some basic brewing underway and I'm nearly on top of the water and electricity problems. This morning I come out to check on my brew and find a massive Wollondilly Wombat has tunnelled an even more massive hole right under the foundations of the brew house! The Wollondilly Wombat is the most obstinate of all wombats. And he's smart enough to know he's protected by law, so basically he can do anything he wants. You're not even allowed to catch them and move them more than 200 yards from their home. That's real handy given that they find their way back from up to 20 miles! And the buggers like to have five or more homes (probably with a wife in every one)!! I've got Wollondilly Wombat holes all over the property and was going to try and live with them. But now the bugger is undermining my brew house! What's a brewer supposed to do? Stand by and watch his submarine sink like the Titanic?!! And if so, should the captain go down with his ship? I'll need to stock the brew fridges for this one. I have visions of me standing bravely on the Bridge of the Brew House, drinking a stiff porter whilst sinking into the sunset. And the band plays Auld Lang Syne Jill claps hysterically And Pat breathes a sigh of relief! I know what Ray Kruse would do. I'm certain his unnatural interest in goats would not extend to fat fury wombats digging under his brew house. And it's lucky for wombats that they don't have tails, cause I certainly know what I'd like to do! Phil p.s. Wes, bring on that keg of Hefeweizen, I'm running out of steam. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 07:22:43 -0500 From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com> Subject: Re: Copper and Sodium Hydroxide Thanks for the responses both on line and off regarding the cleaning and storage of my copper counter-flow chiller. Bill posted: > Fred wants to clean his CFC with Caustic, a 20% solution. and > I believe that breweries use a 2% solution of NaOH to clean their > kegs, then > follow with an acid rinse. IMO, using a chemical that strong for a > "hobby" > is just not worth it. I think a 2% solution is reasonable with proper > care > and caution. Bill missed my statement that I was intending to clean the CFC with a 5% solution, not 20%, and to store the chiller in a 0.5% solution. I cleaned the chiller a second time with 5% NaOH and only got a very faint blue from 45 minutes contact. That is to be compared to the more obvious blue achieved during the first cleaning. I believe I must have dissolved off some copper salt which caused the blue color, and I'm working on the hypothesis that the copper salt is now gone and I'm left with bare copper metal, which should be relatively inert to the caustic. I've decided to use the 2% NaOH solution that Bill mentions as a pretty standard brewhouse cleaning concentration. I'll try storage in a 0.2% solution. If I start seeing blue again, I'll know something is continuing to be dissolved by the solution and will stop the storage in caustic. By the way, what kind of material is used to solder copper to copper in the construction of this thing? Perhaps that should be more of a concern than the copper itself. I also heard off line that Star San contains a mineral acid and therefore is NOT recommended for this application. Others have suggested storing it filled with water. Although I've never tried this with anything, I don't like what happens to the vinyl tubing that was used somewhere in the brewing process, rinsed well with water and left lying on the shelf. Mold shows up in the tubing eventually, and they become virtually uncleanable. Of course, vinyl is cheap. Fred L Johnson Apex, North Carolina, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 08:30:06 -0500 From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net> Subject: RE: Copper and Sodium Hydroxide Fred wants to clean his CFC with Caustic, a 20% solution and store the CFC with a weaker solution. As Bill points out that is a very strong solution. But I don't believe even a weaker solution is necessary. Perhaps an occasional cleaning, once a year, is justified to rid the CFC of beerstone but a warm PBW solution would take care of that. I've found that if I run 5 gallons of boiling water through my CFC prior to use and immediately following use sanitizes it and then cleans it out prior to storage. I also place end caps on the wort line through the chiller to keep out dust and insects during storage. Extreme measures aren't necessary IMHO. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 08:45:55 -0600 From: "Patrick Hughes" <pjhinc at eriecoast.com> Subject: HERMS coil Steve Park in HBD 4440 contemplates using a 2 gal. cooler for his HERMs coil IMO - A 2 gal cooler sounds way too small for a HLT to be used in conjunction with a HERMS coil. I use a 10 gal HLT w/ 25' of 1/2" copper,and want to upgrade to a 15 gal. The water in these bigger tanks is more temp stable and can easily be heated up to sparge temp. and used for sparging when ready. I believe bigger is better after using the 10 gal extensively. 15 gal would give you enough sparge water plus some to spare for a 10 gal batch of beer. Patrick Hughes Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 05:52:10 -0800 From: "Andy and Tina Bailey" <atmlobailey at cox.net> Subject: Smart & Final Bar Rinse Disinfectant Sanitizer I was in a local Smart and Final (like a cross between Sams club and a resturant supply place in the SW US) and saw that they had gallon jugs of Smart & Final Bar Rinse Disinfectant Sanitizer for ~$7. The label said it was no rinse and at a concentration of 1 ounce to 4 gallons of water required only a 1-2 minute contact time. Unfortunately, I don't remember the active ingredient. I realize without knowing the name of the active ingredient that you can't comment on its appropriateness for brewing, but does anyone use the stuff or something like it with any success? Can it be used like StarSan? Is it safe for contact with copper, brass, or stainless? Andy in Las Vegas Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 09:12:43 -0600 From: "William Frazier" <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Barrels Lots of talk about using oak barrels for beer lately. If you must have a barrel check out www.gibbsbrothers.com/. They make paraffin lined barrels from 1 to 30 gallon in size. Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 13:09:50 -0700 From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Link of the Week - Jan 3 2004 - drunk If you did the typical toast or three on New Year's, you might feel the effect of alcohol. What causes the deleterious effects? The gene for the pathway is just getting solved by genetic researchers at the wonderfully named "Ernest Gallo Clinic": http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article2090.html The biologic reasons are pretty well understood and come from multiple reasons: First, alcohol is a diuretic. In fact, you lose far more water in your urine than you are taking in the drink itself. Dehydration causes the brain to shrink away from the skull slightly. This triggers pain sensors on the outside surface of your brain. Second, slcohol lowers your blood sugar levels as glucose is excreted in the urine. Along with the late night, this contributes to extensive yawning the following day. Third, free radicals are harmful molecules formed in the liver as it struggles to break down ethanol. Usually, these are handled by an anti-oxidant called glutathione but its reserves can run low after a drinking session. Finally, vital electrolytes such as magnesium and potassium are excreted from the body with the urine. These minerals help keep the heart beating and dangerous cardiac arrhythmias can occur after heavy drinking. BTW, how much alcohol is too much? You will be amazed at this story: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&e=3&u=/nm/drunk_dc Bob Devine Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 17:16:31 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: RE: Yeast Culture If anyone is looking for Pierre Rajotte's book "First steps in Yeast Culture" Williams Brewing carries it. At least, it's still on their web page. I bought a copy last year. http://www.williamsbrewing.com/AB1605000/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Product_ID=41&C ATID=3 You will have to paste the second line onto the back of the first. If the link don't work, go to http://www.williamsbrewing.com then click on Books & More, then choose Intermediate to Advanced. It will be on that list. Cheers!! Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 12:30:08 -0500 From: "Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com> Subject: removing keg labels Greetings! Any suggestions for removing lables that are glued onto stainless steel Corny kegs? I've been soaking in an ammonia solution for several days (which works well for bottle labels, BTW) but this doesn't seem to help. TIA for your help. Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syrause, NY <http://hbd.org/ensmingr> Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:22:39 +1100 From: "Phil Yates" <phil.yates at bigpond.com> Subject: Why Do We Use Our Yeasts? The Southern Highlands of NSW is a cool climate wine producing area. We are surrounded locally by wineries here at "Maple Downs" and now the area can boast having its own Brew House, sinking though it is, run by a berserk baron. One of the local wine makers told me he had been experimenting with making his own beer. He was pretty sure he didn't need to learn much, being an experienced wine maker. He told me he couldn't understand why we muck around using so many different yeasts to make beer. He simply used what he had in the winery. He makes great wine. I'm damn glad he didn't ask me to try his beer!! I can see I'm going to be very busy around here educating experienced wine makers. I was going to ask him "What mash temp do you use on your grapes?" But thought better of it. Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 15:59:38 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: Copper and Sodium Hydroxide The other day, Fred said: "Bill missed my statement that I was intending to clean the CFC with a 5% solution, not 20%, and to store the chiller in a 0.5% solution." snip... Fred, I must have read right past that. I saw 20% and must have quit reading. Sorry bout that. I agree that you're dissolving Copper, but it will probably happen every time. It's no big deal as long as you rinse every time, I think. I stored some StarSan in the chiller overnight once, just before brew day and it was green when I pushed it out. So I didn't do that again. (Actually, I think the green came out of the smaller secondary chiller after the CFC, I have to do extra chilling to get it down to 50 degrees.) Like you, I have heard of people storing their CFC's in StarSan with no problems. I think I'll stick to running some StarSan through it for 10 minutes or so and then blow it out with CO2. You could make a solution up and just put some copper parts in and watch it for a few days? Maybe I'll try it too and we could compare notes. Let me know. Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:16:46 -0500 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: re: Of barrels and beer Michael Grice kindly responds, >Steve, you're making the assumption that all oxidation is bad. In >wine, low amounts of controlled oxidation seem to be beneficial for >aging. Evaporation from oak barrels also seems to do a nice job of >concentrating flavors (assuming you top off the wine, of course). I have to say that the statement that a little oxidation is good for wine is very questionable but may have some evidence to support it. IMO the aging with limited transpiration primarily benefits wine in that it allows the evaporation of certain nasty volatiles. I drink a lot of wine these days (and for the past 2+ decades) and I've never noticed any flavor problem introduce by modern lower-O2 processing. Some fortified and specialty wines depend on oxidation, but that's a very special case. >My >hypothesis is that this would also be beneficial for any beer which >requires a little aging. The unsupported extrapolation that beer can use a little oxidation is almost certainly wrong. Beer and wine have vastly different levels of different anti-oxidants and different oxidisable flavor constituents. *EVERY* study shows that beer flavor quality and stability is damaged by post fermentation oxygen - no exceptions ! Lambics with other fungal and bacterial ferments are certainly a special case, I'll cede. Spencer mentions an interesting traditional (specialty) beer with oak flavor too. I don't think the strong tannic flavors that come from small new barrels (small means more oak surface per unit volume) "work" in any beer. I also don't think oak tannins are of any value at all (except negative value) in the common styles of ale and lager. Aging anything for 120 days in a new-ish 5gal bbl will certainly produce more tannins than anyone would tolerate - wine or beer. That's a personal opinion 'course. There may be special exceptions but extensive oak contact time for typical run of ales is not a good thing IMO. It is not traditional - otherwise old breweries wouldn't have gone to the trouble and expense of covering barrels and fermenter interiors with pitch. Obviously they disliked the oak flavor. >I do think a little oak might be nice in a porter (assuming > it were subtle). Then try some winemakers charred oak "beans" or a charred oak stick. A barrel is an expensive thing to experiment with when the flavor impact is so very un-subtle in beer. I think you'll find that the tannins get very off-putting before any smoke-y vanilla becomes evident. A porter or most ales have no place to hide these tannic flavors compared to a cabernet. Like the pepper-beer thread - this is only my personal opinion of beer flavor. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:53:41 -0500 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: re: Carbs Bill "NO Spam" posts on an article in the "Mid-Atlantic Brewing News".. He quotes ... << "One website I consulted lists Michelob Ultra as having 2.6 grams of carbs and 95 calories per standard 12 oz serving. Miller Light, by comparison, has 3.2 grams of carbohydrates and 96 calories. That means if you switch from a regular light beer to Ultra, you're saving a mere 0.6 carbs and just one calorie. [...]" >> This M-A BN article is misinformed malarkey ! Miller-lite and MichUltra are both examples of very low carbohydrate beers - what Kunze calls "dietetic" beers. These are correctly differentiated from lower-calorie "light" beers like Sam Adams Light at 9.7 grams of carbs per bottle or Mich Light at 11.7 grams of carbs per bottle. [A regular SA lager is 18 grams, and Mich 13.3 ]. If you switch from "regular light" to dietetic beers you are likely saving some 7 grams of carbs per bottle. If you are trying to keep daily carbo intake under 50 grams per day, this difference is a *big* issue. Here is a nice list of some common commercial beers http://www.beer100.com/beercalories.htm I wish I had a carbo listing for low OG, well attenuated beers like Newcastle Brown and Bass. -S Return to table of contents
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