HOMEBREW Digest #4458 Thu 22 January 2004


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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Vanilla Porter (Matthew Riggs)
  Craftbrewer Sponorship ("Graham L Sanders")
  ATTENTION: Those using email authentification services... (Pat Babcock)
  Re: Special roast and victory malts (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
  Re: uh-oh/If you start me up ("-S")
  Need help in updating Brewery (Edward Seymour)
  Scottsdale Brewpubs (R.A.)" <rbarrett@ford.com>
  RE: Victory & Special Roast ("Urban, Michael J, WCS")
  drying malted grain ("Mike Sharp")
  Sanitation Practices and the common Homebrew Resources ("Pat and Debbie Reddy")
  starter aeration and stuck fermentation (Craig Agnor)
  Need help in updating Brewery ("Seymour, Edward C")
  Propane cooker conversion to NG (victorsv)
  er; Splenda -- Is it Fermentable? ("Stephen Alexander")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:18:48 -0600 From: Matthew Riggs <braumeister at cox.net> Subject: Re: Vanilla Porter Ed Benckert <ed at ebonmists.com> wrote: I was just about to brew one myself. Here's my take on things. I've only brewed a vanilla porter once before, a small 1 gallon tester batch. I used 1 vanilla bean. It was so sickly vanilla I had to throw it out. When I brew my 5 gallon batch, I plan on 2 beans. Thats 40% the amount of vanilla I used the last time, so it should be good. Maybe try 3 if you're daring, but 1 bean in 1 gallon made the beer undrinkable, at least to my tastebuds. I use two beans split in half down the long center and it is always more than enough vanilla flavor. I also put it in the secondary if that is any consolation. - -- Matthew Riggs in San Angelo, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:00:22 +1000 From: "Graham L Sanders" <craftbrewer at bigpond.com> Subject: Craftbrewer Sponorship G'Day All Well with the wet season well and truly broken here in Nth Qld, I now have a swamp instead of a good ol Aussie backyard. You know when Huey sends her down up this way when wild life photographers come to visit the back of the house to take pickies of all the wildlife. Even the crocodile man, baby on the shoulder, paid a visit. But I am out of lurk mode due to Pats request for sponsorship of the HBD. The lack of aussies on this digest was due in part to the success of the HBD. Its formula was the receipe for the Oz Craftbrewers site (www.craftbrewer.org) and I can say with confidence that by following the HBD's formula, we have become the most dominant brew site in Australia, if not the Southern Hemisphere. But we have never forgotten our mother site. I for one dont miss reading it, and do contact many of the posters when I need brewing advice (yes its true, even the "Brewing Guru of the North" needs advice, as if only occasionally). And its much of this technical knowledge that we take back to our website and digest and inform Aussies brewers, even if they dont like what they hear. So be it malt to melanoidans, starch to sucrose, the advice we get perpetuates thru-out the wide brown land. So we are sending to the HBD $70.00 Australian as sponsorship, about $50.00 US as a vote of thanks. But hang onto that little aussie battler. The rate your dollar is falling, shouldn't be long til it will buy a lifetimes support. But in a shameless plug, we couldn't make this offer it wasn't to our sponsors, such as David Cryer Malt, and Country Brewer (just visit our website to see the links). Its sponsors like these that allows all this independant advice to get out to the brewing public, and we thank them for not only their support, but their confidence in allowing independant thought. And like Pat, our "all Seeing Brewing Oracle", David Lamotte keeps the whole thing running together seemlessly. What is the one overlying thing we have best picked up from the HBD. Easy independant advice will further the hobby. And we should support any-one who advances the hobby. Shout Graham Sanders On Behalf of OZ Craftbrewers www.craftbrewer.org Oh, when the Crocodile Man paid me a visit, he asked me about his stunt with his baby and feeding the croc. As we actually live in croc country it was only natural he visited for advice. I told him where he went wrong. But I told him his next stunt was far more dangerous. "Steve" I said "Feeding a croc with a baby in you hands has some dangers, but feeding Michael Jackson with your son in hand is far too dangerous to even think about". Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:58:01 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: ATTENTION: Those using email authentification services... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your thinking center... Folks, I know spam is a huge pain in the dupa; however, if you have set yourself up on one of those SPAM killing systems that require human authentication in order for the mail to proceed to your inbox, you can no longer receive the HBD. If you are on one of these services, the HBD receives the bounce message asking to authenticate. The HBD, being a machine process cannot comply. To rectify this, you can either manually enter the HBD address (homebrew-request at hbd.org is the addrress it mails from) in your list of acceptable addresses, or you can unsubscribe your address, and read the HBD on the web. Thanks! - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor at hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle" - Arlo Guthrie Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:46:02 -0500 From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com> Subject: Re: Special roast and victory malts Michael from Middleton, WI asks: >I have a recipe for a brown ale which calls for special roast >and victory malts, neither of which I can find. Are equivalent >amounts of brown and biscuit malts reasonable substitutes? The Briess Malting Company web site has the following descriptions for each of these malts. The Victory name is a registered trade name and carries the "R" with a circle around it on their site: Special Roast is a fully malted product that receives additional processing designed to contribute a "biscuit" (pronounced English) flavor to beer. Victory Malt is a fully malted product which receives additional processing. It is designed to contribute a warm, toasted, nutty flavor to beer. We Make the Beer We Drink!!! Bob Barrett Ann Arbor, MI (2.8,103.6) rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:51:00 -0500 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: Re: uh-oh/If you start me up Wes writes, > Well, it certainly seems I have Mr Alexanders total attention. Aww - not even close yet Wes. I have a soft spot for you and your partner and anyway it's bad form to "beat up" on a guy who can't put up a fight. 1/ ==== > I am not an expert in yeast or the mechanics of fermentation which is why I > talked to a fermentation professional. I am going to stick with his input. FALLACY: argumentum ad verecundiam" or "appeal to authority". "It must be so because some expert says so". Instead let me suggest that you examine the data or at least the results of people who observed experimental data. Any undergrad text and dozens of university websites cover the basics of enzyme catalysis and kinetics. Look specifically for the development of the Michaelis-Menten(M-M) eqn. In brief enzymes are catalysts and in theory one molecule of invertase will eventually convert a ferment full of sucrose solution. More invertase will increase the rate of conversion, but not the amount of sucrose hydrolyzed. As I posted in a long series of enzyme kinetic posts a few years ago M-M: v0 = d[P]/dt = k2 * [E0] * [A] / (Km + [A]) The *RATE* at which sucrose is hydrolyzed ( d[P]/dt ) is linearly related to the initial amount of enzyme [E0]. This is uncontested, basic, enzyme kinetics 101 that you refuse to accept Wes. 2/==== > Googling up a string of commodity market quotes and simplistic shipping > costs without understanding how all this works in practice was always going > to be risky - especially from the comfort of the old favourite armchair. Wes first claimed that my sugar pricing was for the US domestic market price. I pointed out using a USDA website that verified it was world market price. Now Wes impugns my information based on the notion that I googled it up from an armchair. FALLACY: "argumentum ad hominem" or arguing against the person rather than the facts. I have a dream, that one day I'll post to a digest where I will not be judged by the URL of my search engine but by the content of my argument. .. ' has nothing to do with the merit of the argument. I've given Wes a lot of openings to post on his area of expertice. What are the bulk prices of malts, sugars and syrups in Oz Wes ? What are the real costs of shipping ? What are local tariffs and price supports like ? Instead Wes provides no data and presents no germain rebuttal except to proclaim he is right and my esttimates "risky".. 3/==== > Many of the original malt houses were brewery owned > and in some cases co-located. Today we find most of the maltings operations > near the principal growing areas, but still focused on suppling the mostly > state capital based breweries. Now Wes seems to argue the reason for plant co-location is historical rather than current shipping economics as previously stated. I find that completely believable. 4/=== > We > plan to do a similar exercise using a basic Coopers kit [...] - one > with granulated supermarket cane sugar and the other with Trimoline ... I'd sincerely appreciate hearing about that Wes. I expect you'll see similar cidery flavors for both, but who knows. Can you describe Trimoline in more detail than "invert sugar". I'll post a little more on enzymes shortly. -S (riskily riding a secretarial chair ;^) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:46:48 -0800 (PST) From: Edward Seymour <eseymour at yahoo.com> Subject: Need help in updating Brewery Greetings Beer Guru's I have taken a little sabbatical from home brewing and wish to return. My current system is an all-plasticelectric brewery. This serves me quite well. What I wish to do is automate it. This could be using a computer, pid. magnetic pump, rims, shims, etc. . . Does anyone have a web page that has instructions for automating their brewery (Automate your Brewery for Dummies)? I am one of those geeks that got a degree in business and economics, and have no idea what a pid does, or how to set one up. I am leaning towards a computer based system as I have an old Pentium III system that sitting around taking up space. It doesn't have to be simple, but it has to be through.I have friends that are into computer hardware/software that I can tap for knowledge, but I need to know what everyone else has done so as to not re-invent the wheel. Regards, Ed Seymour Hamden CT. eseymour at yahoo.com brew web page: http://www.geocities.com/eseymour/brewery.html Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:58:15 -0500 From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com> Subject: Scottsdale Brewpubs Will be in Scottsdale, Arizona next month for only two days. What are the brewpubs I HAVE to visit? I have the following as a preliminary list" The Unlikely Cowboy Papago Brewing Are either of these a can't miss? Are there others?? We Make the Beer We Drink!!! Bob Barrett Ann Arbor, MI (2.8, 103.6) Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 12:08:16 -0500 From: "Urban, Michael J, WCS" <mjurban at att.com> Subject: RE: Victory & Special Roast >Michael in WI sez: >I have a recipe for a brown ale which calls for special roast and victory malts, >neither of which I can find. Are equivalent amounts of brown and biscuit malts >reasonable substitutes? I'd like to follow the recipe for a change before >freelancing like I normally do. You will probably hear this from lots of folks, but these are both Briess malts, and should be widely available. The Briess website (http://www.briessmalting.com/bmcindex.htm) lists them both under "Special Processed Malts". It also shows Victory as a registered trademark, but not Special Roast. They are available at Heart's Homebrew here in Orlando, and Heart's does a pretty large mail order business. http://www.heartshomebrew.com regards, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:35:55 -0800 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: drying malted grain bruce asks about drying malted grain "Any good ideas out there?" I saw a home-made dehydrator made from a small window unit air-conditioner once. It was used to dry lumber in lieu of a kiln. He had it mounted inside a small shipping container. You have remove the internal ducting and reverse the air flow so that the air goes through the evaporator and then through the condenser. It warms the air overall, but also strips much of the moisture out when it cools the air first. You rig the duct so that it recirculates the air in the dehydrator "box", and rig a hose to drain the condensate away. I don't think it needs to run continuously, but it wouldn't take long to dry the malt if you put it in trays with screen bottoms, stacked and spaced. Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 12:38:15 -0600 From: "Pat and Debbie Reddy" <reddydp at earthlink.net> Subject: Sanitation Practices and the common Homebrew Resources Hello all, Perhaps some of you experienced brewers out there can shed some light on this issue. I've scoured the typical internet resources as well as some of the more popular home brew bibles in search of some in depth discussions on the topic of sanitation but have yet to find the answers I seek. I have an understanding of the difference between clean, sanitary, and sterile so don't go there please. What I am looking for are some examples of your cleaning and sanitation practices. Particularly.... What does it take to create a "clean and sanitary work surface"? - a phrase so common in books and other references. Is wiping down the countertop with a Star San solution, C-Brite, or Iodophor with a damp sponge acceptable? When I clean and sanitize a piece of equipment, a spoon for example, and set it on the above mentioned sanitary surface, just how long could it typically sit there before I should sanitize it again? I realize that working outdoors in my garage is probably less sanitary than in my kitchen, but I'm just looking for a general idea/rule of thumb. The no-rinse agents available sound great but geez, do you know how long it takes a spoon to air dry? I've got a mash to stir every 15 minutes or so. If I stir, clean, sanitize, then air dry I won't be stirring for 30 minutes or more in some cases. And in the case of the "must rinse" sanitizers, is rinsing with hot (140*) tap water acceptable? I've read where it is definitely not, and I've read where it is perfectly fine. I've been brewing for several years and haven't had much trouble with infection, possibly because of the strong yeast starters I pitch. But I may be tossing a 10 gallon batch of my favorite ale tomorrow night and I can't attribute the funk in this beer to anything but infection. Please, if you'd be so kind, answer these questions as best you can, or even better, describe some of your own cleaning and sanitizing practices. Thanks. Pat Reddy - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.564 / Virus Database: 356 - Release Date: 1/19/2004 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 12:25:47 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Agnor <cagnor at emerald.ucsc.edu> Subject: starter aeration and stuck fermentation Howdy folks, I've had a rash of stuck fermentations lately (for example an IPA with 90% Pale malt 5% wheat 5% 40L crytal mashed at 150F with OG 1.060 fermented with Wyeast #1028 London at 66F finishing with SG 1.022, and similarly high FG of 1.020 with a 50% Pilsner malt 50% wheat malt hefeweizen of OG 1.055). From tasting the beers, the fermentations are clean, but the beer sweeter than I'd hoped or like. I feel like I've checked out most or all of the usual suspects for stuck fermentation. Quantity of yeast - I've grown up smack packs in 1qt. starters Aeration - I aerate for 30'-60' minutes with an aquarium pump Fermentation temps - I've got a chest freezer with temp control and fermometers to monitor the temp. Doesn't seem like the culprit to me. Nutrients - I'm an all grain brewer and don't *think* this should be a problem. Any insights suggestions on how to improve attenuation of my beers would be appreciated. One possibility that occurred to me is starter aeration. I don't usually aerate my starters. My standard procedure is to pour a quart of canned sterile wort into a 1/2 gal. jug through a funnel and then add the yeast. My thinking was that the splashing of pouring the canned wort into the jug provided enough aeration. Is it possible that this doesn't provide enough oxygen and is stressing the yeast prior to introduction to the main wort and resulting in poor attenuation? TIA Cheers, Craig Agnor Santa Cruz, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:13:40 -0500 From: "Seymour, Edward C" <ESeymour at SIKORSKY.COM> Subject: Need help in updating Brewery Greetings Beer Guru's I have taken a little sabbatical from home brewing and wish to return. My current system is an all-plastic electric brewery. This serves me quite well. What I wish to do is automate it. This could be using a computer, pid. magnetic pump, rims, shims, etc. . . . Does anyone have a web page that has instructions for automating their brewery (Automate your Brewery for Dummies)? I am one of those geeks that got a degree in business and economics, and have no idea what a pid does, or how to set one up. I am leaning towards a computer based system as I have an old Pentium III system that sitting around taking up space. It doesn't have to be simple, but it has to be through. I have friends that are into computer hardware/software that I can tap for knowledge, but I need to know what everyone else has done so as to not reinvent the wheel. Regards, Ed Seymour Hamden CT. eseymour at yahoo.com brew web page: http://www.geocities.com/eseymour/brewery.html Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 00:38:06 GMT From: victorsv at juno.com Subject: Propane cooker conversion to NG I have a Camp Chef single burner propane cooker and would like to convert it to natural gas. I would appreciate any posts that would help me accomplish this. Thanks! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:10:01 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at ieee.org> Subject: er; Splenda -- Is it Fermentable? Todd in Qatar asks, >Will yeast ferment Splenda? Splenda is dextrose & maltodextrin & sucralose. The dextrose(glucose) component is fermentable. The amount of dextrose you'd add via Splenda in order to substantially sweeten a beverage would be small - maybe 8% or 10% of a beer priming dose. You may get a very little bit of refermentation but a trivial amount. >Wonder if it can be used to sweeten cider? I believe it's possible. I had/have some concerns about sucralose stability in acidic conditions, but the mfgr (Johnson & Johnson) claims it's stable. J&J is a class act and is probably right. >I tried it this week in my tea and honestly couldn't detect an aftertaste. Yes, it's the best tasting of the manufactured non-nutrative sweeteners. Very sucrose-like in flavor. It's just an opinion, but I think aspartame (Equal) is equally neutral in flavor and gives a sort of smooth warming touch to alcoholic beverages that works well. The disadvantage of aspartame is that it cannot be used for cooking - it breaks down at high temps unlike Splenda. I prefer Splenda for general kitchen use and aspartame as a cider/wine sweetener Haven't used it in beer and it's a minor preference issue. -S Return to table of contents
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