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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Arizona beer scene, Phx area brewpubs ("dave holt")
  Stuck Fermentation/Starter ("PAUL SMITH")
  A Bad Day Kegging ("Phil Yates")
  RE: A Pardon From The King (petr.otahal)
  Brewpubs on Maui (Gary Krone)
  120-minute IPA Clone (Randy Ricchi)
  Re: fusels & esters (Steve Funk)
  Re: Sanitizing Questions ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")


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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:06:22 -0700
From: "dave holt" <brewdave at hotmail.com>
Subject: Arizona beer scene, Phx area brewpubs

Brewpubs, homebrew shops, clubs in the Phoenix area has been asked a few 
times in the last couple of months.  Here is a website that you can find 
mostly up to date info:

http://www.azbrewguild.com/

Bob Barrett will find all the links to the brewpubs Dustin Hauck and I have 
mentioned.  Nice to see a Socal picks the same breweries as a Zonie.  I have 
yet to visit the Sonora Brewhouse but have had many Sonora brews around 
town.  The Porter is excellent.  The Burning Bird Pale Ale is one of the 
finer pales around.

Rio Salado is an unique brewpub.  Lager house. They recently added ales.  
Haven't made it over to try them yet.  Damn, married life sure has curtailed 
my brewpub visits.

Got any more questions, just email me.

Dave Holt
Chandler, AZ



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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 00:48:02 -0600
From: "PAUL SMITH" <pksmith_morin1 at msn.com>
Subject: Stuck Fermentation/Starter

Craig, looks like you covered all your bases.  I can only think three
possibilities.  (1) you could definitely aerate your starter worts; (2) you
don't have enough yeast mass. Wyeast XL smack packs/White labs both have
about 30-60 billion cells, and White labs recommends getting 240 billion by
a 2 liter starter.  1 quart may be deficient.  (3) your starter regimen
encourages yeast "not to finish the job."

This is my starter regimen, for all but my biggest (above 19-20 plato)
beers:

White labs Burton ale yeast, start with 2 quarts of starter, which is
aerated about 5-6 seconds (about 9 seconds on full blast per gallon of wort)
with pure oxygen and stone, then shaken periodically throughout starter
ferment cycle.  I allow the starter to ferment fully, then crash cool (to
33-26F) anywhere from 24-36 hours.  I siphon off the top, leaving a dense
cake of yeast below (not interested in the starter wort diluting my batch
wort).  Day of brewing, with about 4-6 hours left (my days take about 8-9
hours), I pitch about 1/2 quart of starter onto the yeast bed and let it
rock so that by my batch pitching the yeast is at full gear.

I wrestled with crashing the starter yeast at peak exponential growth,
during high krausen.  But from practical experience (Goose Island, Chicago),
I found that what my starter generation of yeast "learned," so will the
yeast in the full ferment.  If you crash it prior to it having the ability
to ferment out the final fermentables, in effect, it is my belief you teach
your yeast to only go so far.  You risk some loss of viability (crashing
earlier to near-freezing will preserve some viability) but you gain in your
yeast's "pac-man" ability to ferment out fully.

Hope this helps.  Good brewing.

Paul 


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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:29:55 +1100
From: "Phil Yates" <phil.yates at bigpond.com>
Subject: A Bad Day Kegging

Yesterday evening, whilst gassing up a keg, Jill announced it was cool
enough to go horse riding. Jill scares me more than horses so reluctantly I
shoved the keg in the fridge and prepared myself for a ride.

Dressed up in my latest gear and looking like a cross between Zoro and The
Lone Ranger, I ventured forth to mount my steed. Should have been simple
enough, but I do recall noting a mean look in the horse's eye. With left
foot in left stirrup, I swung my elfin like figure over the horse and at
precisely that moment he took off at a gallop. My butt never even hit the
saddle. Where the saddle had been was now nothing but air and the horse was
20 feet ahead and racing for the dam, farting furiously. I crashed heavily
to the ground, badly damaging my wrist (not to mention my ego). To hell with
this, just 20 minutes ago I was happily gassing a keg!

Now this should have been the end of it, but no. Jill is now screaming at me
(from the safety of the fence) to get in the dam and retrieve the now
swimming horse, saddle and all. She must be joking! But no she isn't. So in
I go, boots and all to swim after the blasted  horse who's having a
wonderful time churning up mud. Finally I catch him. Now Jill wants me to
get back on and ride him, despite being saturated in my Lone Ranger gear.
"You can't let a horse do that to you!"
Too bloody right I can! My riding days are over. I feed the horse and thank
him for the evening's ride. I've spent many years riding motorcycles, but
never have I come a cropper before even getting on the seat!!

Finally back at the homestead, I'm drinking from my keg at a pace that would
put Doc Pivo to shame, and nursing a crippled wrist.

I've had better days.

Phil




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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:33:56 +1100 (EST)
From: petr.otahal at aardvark.net.au
Subject: RE: A Pardon From The King

Phil Yates wrote:
>what effect it has on flavours. You can talk yourself right out of the
>armchair with science. Let's go and do it.
>Cheers
>Phil


Sorry to spoil your fun Phil, but the only time you can really talk
yourself out of an armchair when the mysterious -S is concerned, is to go
get another beer from the fridge.  If you want to go and do some "science"
feel free but be prepared for a thorough dressing down and a right
bollocking when you present your results, I'm sure your up for it.


Best Regards to ALL concerned
Cheers
Petr Otahal
Posting from the bottom of down under, that place they now call (the map
of) Tasmania, but it used to be called VD land!



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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 07:54:30 -0600
From: Gary Krone <gkrone at wi.rr.com>
Subject: Brewpubs on Maui

My wife and I are going to Maui in a week.  We will be spending all of our 
time on that island and staying near Kihei.

Are there any brewpubs on the island I should make a point in going to?

Thanks,

Gary Krone
7617 50th Ave
Kenosha, WI  53142
gkrone at wi.rr.com
(262)697-5041 




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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:17:12 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: 120-minute IPA Clone

Rick,
Sorry, I don't have any info on the yeast you ask about, but I have a
suggestion on the hops. I brewed a 60 minute IPA a year and a half ago,
and to make things easier I added hops every 10 minutes throuout the
boil (or was it every 5 minutes?) rather than every minute (equal
amounts throughout). The hop flavor and aroma was very intense, and
there was a "depth" of hop character, like it was there on many
different levels.

I've never heard of the 120 minute IPA. Where did you hear about it? Is
there an article online anywhere?



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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:27:42 -0800
From: Steve Funk <steve at hheco.com>
Subject: Re: fusels & esters

 -S writes a terrific synopsis on the role of esters and fusel compounds. 
  Whew! Luckily, I already had my morning coffee fix for the day. 
Reminds me of those biochemistry lectures in my college days.  My prof 
was really into yeast and spent much time researching signal 
transduction pathways for yeast mating types.  Unfortunately, I did not 
share his enthusiasm at the time as other topics like organic chemistry 
and immunology were also filling my head.

 -S, I'd like to find out more about a couple of things you stated that 
relate to foam stability.  First, you wrote that "aging can reduce 
levels of anthocyanogens which are foam negative..." Surely, you meant 
anthocyanins, which are naturally occurring pigments in plants, as I 
understand.  Could you expand a bit on the role of anthocyanins in 
brewing?  I had always associated them with fruit colors and the like 
and never even considered their presence in grains.  I don't make fruit 
beers.  Second, you commented on how humulones are foam positive.  Could 
you point me in the right direction for information about humulones and 
brewing?  I'd like to gain an understanding the factors that influence 
foam stability.  This interest is spurred on from me noticing 
significant differences in head formation and retention on my home 
brewed concoctions; varying from thick and creamy to thin and 
short-lived.  I brew all grain and normally do single infusion mashes 
with little or no adjuncts.  I suspect a lot has to do with yeast 
selection but I'm sure there are many factors like FAN reserves, SG, 
pitching rate, etc. that all have a role.  By the way, armchair 
philosophy by -S is fine by me.

Brewing in the Columbia River Gorge,
- -- 
Steve Funk, Ph.D.
H&H Eco Systems, Inc.
http://www.hheco.com/
E-Mail: steve at hheco.com




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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:55:38 +1030
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Sanitizing Questions

On Thursday, 22 January 2004 at  9:59:22 -0500, rickdude02 at earthlink.net wrote:
> Pat Reddy asks some pretty detailed questions about sanitation
> and sanitizing...
>
>> And in the case of the "must rinse" sanitizers, is rinsing with hot
>> (140*)tap water acceptable?  I've read where it is definitely not,
>> and I've read where it is perfectly fine.
>
> I don't see any reason why hot water would not be preferable.  Do
> you have any idea why it would not be?

I've pondered this point as well.  My concern was that keeping water
at 140 <insert non-allowed symbol for degrees> F is probably an ideal
temperature for some bugs, so it might actually be worse than cold
water.  I use it anyway, and so far I haven't had problems.  I'd be
interested to hear other people's views on this.

Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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