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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Starters (Chris Shenton)
  cider (Geoffrey Sherwood)
  chlorine...oops! (Carter Stein)
  Soviet sailors homebrew (jonm)
  starters, ginger ale (cckweiss)
  Unsuscribe! (Thorhallur Hjartarson)
  Re: starters (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Foster's Pale Ale Book (florianb)
  Hunter Energy Monitor (Brian Capouch)
  Cherry beer, Crazy Laws (CORONELLRJDS)
  Fastest Beer Judge (Dave Suurballe)


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Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 90 11:29:23 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Starters

Len Reed writes:
> ... [lucid discussion elided] ...
>
> You are using virile yeast.  Let me guess that you are fermenting
> at a high temperature, maybe the 70s?  In your case making a starter
> would indeed do nothing positive and is therefore unadvised.

Why (not)? 

All the previous (elided) discussion supports -- nee, mandates -- using a
starter. Why should high temp fermentation preclude benefits of a starter?

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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 90 08:53:06 PDT
From: sherwood at adobe.com (Geoffrey Sherwood)
Subject: cider

I have been making beer for many years now, but have just graduated to
kegging.  At last .... no more bottles.  I also changed quite a few of
my procedures.  Naturally this all happened at the same time, so I don't
really know what did what.

1) Beers have more bitterness very reminicent of English bitters (rather tasty,
actually -- but not what I was after).  I understand this to be caused by my
going to a full-wort boil and subsequent slow cooling (even with a wort chiller
it takes 20 min to get down below 100 deg F).  Could this possibly be caused by
using fresh hops (I have always used pellets before)?   I have been adding
them 2/3 oz at start of boil, 2/3 oz halfway through, and 2/3 oz about 2
minutes before chilling wort (hops being 1/2 cascade, 1/2 halletauer).

I decided to semi-dry hop with pellets on my last batch (yesterday).  I
reserved about a pint of wort when I chilled the remainder.  I brought it back
up to a boil and tossed in 1/2 oz of Halletauer hops.  Within seconds I had
a pan full of green foam.  I figured the boiling would sanitize the hops and
start the extraction without losing the aromatics (the part I really love
about hops, anyway).  I poured said foam into fermenter and pitched yeast.
The recipe (Avagadro's Expeditious Ale from CJoHB) called for just boiling
a small amount and adding the finishing hops during the last 1 1/2 min of
boil.  My boiling with the hops lasted maybe 20-30 seconds.  Should I have
boiled it longer? Does it matter?  On a related note, I am planning in my next
batch to drop the boiling hops to 1/2 oz or so and make up the remainder in
finishing hops done as above.  I am hoping to get just a small amount of
bitterness with most of the flavor being a floral, fruity hop taste (ie, a hop
flavor like I used to get before I started the full-wort boil).  Any thoughts?

2) I also started using crystal malt (a step up from the all-extract/sugar
brews I have been making).  My final specific gravities have been about 1014
or so which seems high to me.  Is this caused by unfermentable sugars in the
CM?  I have also been fermenting the beer at around 60 deg F if this has any
bearing.  As an aside, I have been using 3.3 lb of malt with 2-3 lb of corn
sugar for years.  The only cidery tastes I have gotten have been caused by
high fermentation temperatures (like 80 deg F) which also give a lot of other
off flavors.  One reason I now brew in a deep-freeze with a new thermostat.
It holds three fermenters and two kegs (and a couple of cases of wine) quite
nicely by the way....

3) I am also making cider for the first time (well, I tried it a couple of times
in Miami, but the 80 deg F fermentations, while spectacular, yielded a yeasty
concoction that was absolutely horrid.  I am now trying it with the Ironmaster
Country Cider kit.  We followed the directions on the label.  We mixed up the
concentrate with bottled water, adding the crushed campden tablets (and I think
yeast nutrients, but I am not sure -- whatever came with the kit).  We waited
for 24 hours (letting the SO2 from the campten tablets escape, I think) then
pitched the yeast.  After three days we had no noticable fermentation, so I
added a pack of Red Star Pasteur Champagne yeast.  We got slow bubbling.  After
4 weeks (ie, yesterday) we went to keg.  Right.  Specific gravity is still
1030 (it is supposed to be 1000 or so).  It is also still quite sweet.  There
is a yeasty smell (surprise, surprise) but virtually no yeast taste.  I siphoned
the cider to a Cornelius keg (before we checked the SG).  There was a thin layer
of yeast on the bottom.  We swished the yeast in the fermenter around until it
went into suspension then siphoned the cider back into the fermenter.  It
bubbled some immediately then went to a very slow bubbling (but at least it is
doing something).  The can says 18-21 days at 70 deg F.  I use the same set
up as above (naturally) so I am fermenting (or trying to...) at 60 deg F.
Does that sound too cold?  Much of the yeast seems to settle out.  Should I
be stirring it every day or two (I think I can stick a stirring rod through
the airlock hole so very little O2 & other contaminantes would be introduced).
Its not that I am worrying (heaven forbid) but I *would* like cider before
Christmas.

Sorry about the length of this missive, but any an all help sincerely
appreciated.

	Thanks much,
		Geoff Sherwood

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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 90 09:44:45 PDT
From: Carter Stein <carters at sirius.cax.tek.com>
Subject: chlorine...oops!

As I finished pitching the yeast into the all grain wort that I made on
Saturday, I accidently dripped a small amount of clorox bleach from my
air lock into the 5 gals. of wort (arghh  at #!*) (less than one teaspoon).

Seems to be fermenting now.

Question:  Any guesses about whether this beer will be drinkable?
           What type of off flavors will there be?

Not worryin'

- --Carter Stein
  carters at castor.cax.tek.com


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Date: Mon Jun 25 09:13:48 1990
From: microsoft!jonm at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Soviet sailors homebrew

Last weekend I chatted with someone who has spent time in the Soviet
Union, including time on a large ship with Soviet sailors.

The sailors make homebrew by filling a glass jug with water and cane
sugar, adding yeast, and fitting a rubber glove over the top.  When the
glove inflates and looks like a big hand, it's ready to drink!  Yum.

	Jonathan

P.S.  (back to malt+hops brewing): I also have the problem where
      fermentation stops after racking to the secondary, and then starts
      again vigorously after a week or so.  I haven't been using a
      starter culture, but I'll try it and see if it helps.


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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 90 10:43:19 -0700
From: cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu
Subject: starters, ginger ale


Re: Starters

Well, I made my first batch last weekend using liquid yeast culture and
a starter, and I can now state with authority that starters work. I pitched
the starter on Saturday afternoon (about 1 pint worth), brewed on Sunday
afternoon, pitched in the starter at about 3:00 PM, and this morning had
a nice thick layer of kraeusen. That's a *lot* better than the 48 hour lag
I was told to expect if I had just pitched the Wyeast straight into a
five gallon batch.

Re: Ginger Ale

While waiting for my brew to cool I bottled the ginger ale that I had
made a couple of weeks ago. At least one person asked for the recipe, but
in a fit of rage at getting 'disk full' from my 102 MB hard drive, I
trashed a bunch of stuff, including the name and address of the person
who was interested in the ginger ale. So... anyway, the beer tasted pretty
good at bottling. Really nice ginger aroma, a sweet/ginger initial taste, with
the hops taking over at the end. The only major modification I'd make int
the recipe is a reduction in the hopping rate (and total elimination of
the Northern Brewer). What I ended up with is more of a ginger IPA, instead
of the more lightly hopped pale ale I was after. Oh well, I'll drink it
anyway.

Does anyone know how commercially produced beers like Sierra Nevada get
the yeast in the bottle to get kind of hard, so it doesn't cloud up the
beer when poured? I tried adding some gelatin finings to this latest bottling,
but I don't thing that's going to do the trick. If you take a bottle of 
Sierra Nevada and shake it, the yeast stays in a sort of cake, instead of
swirling around like smoke. Also, when adding gelatin, TCJOHB says to dissolve
the gelatin in cool water, as hot water will set the gelatin prematurely.
Is this a major infection risk, or is the gelatin in those packets pretty
much sterile?

Ken Weiss
krweiss at ucdavis.edu
cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu

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Date: 25 Jun 90 10:10 -0700
From: Thorhallur Hjartarson <thor at ee.ubc.ca>
Subject: Unsuscribe!


  Could you please unsuscribe me from the mailing list.



  Thank you

  TH


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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 90 13:07:45 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: starters

Len and Ken--
Thanks for the info.  I had forgotten to consider the phases of the yeast
cycle AND the yeast concentration factor.  However, now that I think about
it, I did create a starter once.  It was on my very first batch and that
batch unlike many others DID NOT CREATE GUSHERS EVEN AFTER 2.5 YEARS OF
*UNREFRIGDERATED* STORAGE!  Also, I have yet to create a Special Bitter
of such high quality since.  Maybe I should go back to using starters
and see if I can re-create that first batch.  Luckily, I've taken voluminous
notes on all my beers.  It may just be more proof that: "if you cut corners,
you will sacrifice quality."
Thanks again.

Al.


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Date: 25 Jun 90 12:49:14 PDT (Mon)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: Foster's Pale Ale Book

Rick Meyers points out (regarding "Pale Ale" by Terry Foster:

>The second item, in the section on adjuncts, says "If you must use sugar
>in your pale ale, stick to corn or cane sugar.  Contrary to common
>homebrewing opinion, the latter WILL NOT give your brew a cidery flavor.
>Its bad reputation comes from bad brewing technique-using too much
>sugar and not enough malt, so that the beer is far too thin."
>
>I found this fascinating, since, as he says, common homebrewing opinion
>holds that the use of any kind of sugar (other than priming) can cause the
>beer to be cidery.

The cidery question has bobbed in and out quite often here.  In principle,
cane sugar shouldn't be any worse than using corn sugar.  But it's possible
to trace the cidery effect to brews of low body, at least in my past
experience.  In any case, it's easier to buy commercial beer than to go
through the effort of making home beer and shortcutting by the use of
excessive sugar dilution.

Earlier in the book, Foster says that he believes that there is no place
for using sugar in brewing pale ale and that he wonders how far better 
certain commercial pale ales would be if they were all malt.  Seems to me
that it's a question of flavor and tradition.  The use of certain sugars
in brewing pale ale is traditionally justified in the same way that using
oats or unmalted barley in stout is justified.  What would a hamburger be
without Walla Walla sweet onion slices?

Florian, who brews what I like to drink?

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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 90 20:28:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Hunter Energy Monitor

Following a lead I saw earlier on this digest, I sent an associate off
looking (at Builder's Square) for a Hunter Energy Monitor for me to
install on a refrigerator. 

To no avail.  He tried at two, and neither (both here in the midwest)
had them. 

So, netters, do any of you know of an alternative vendor I might avail
myself of?  I want to keep doing lagers all summer, and for now I'm
having to settle for steam beers.  Not bad, just not what I want. 

Thanks.

Brian Capouch
Saint Joseph's College
brianc at saintjoe.edu

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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 90 20:12 MST
From: CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU
Subject: Cherry beer, Crazy Laws

Greetings:

My partner and I've finally gone ahead and made our cherry beer.  Thanks to 
those who sent me suggestions, all help is appreciated.  It sounds like there 
are sveral people in different parts of the country who are brewing cherry
ale.  Let's compare notes in a couple months.  For any interested parties, 
here's the poop:

		"Pick of the Season" Cherry Ale

  Ingredients for 5.5 gallons:
6 lbs. Laaglander light malt extract (dry)
1/4 lb. Crystal Malt
1/4 lb. Lactose
7-8 lbs. Fresh sweet cherries  (I never did get around to weighing them: 
                                 so much for reproducibility.)
1/2 oz. Chinook (60 min.)  [12.2 / 2 = 6.1 AAUs]
1/2 oz. Chinook (10 min.)
1/2 oz. Hallertauer (steeped, for aroma)
1/2 tsp. Irish Moss
14 g. Whitbred Ale Yeast (Rehydrated and subsequently pitched into a 
         1/2 gal. starter)

The procedure was fairly standard, except for the preparation and addition 
of the cherries.  The day after picking, I put the cherries in the freezer 
and after a couple of days took them out and let them defrost in the 
'fridge.  I've heard that this might help to release more flavor by 
breaking the cell walls.  While the wort was happily boiling away, I 
removed all the stems and then crushed the cherries by hand.  [You just 
wouldn't believe the squishy-spongy feeling you get by pushing onto a big 
stack of ripe cherries. ;^)]  After the wort finished its boiling, I 
poured it over the cherries to kill all the nasties.  I'd have 
preferred to do it the other way, (add the cherries to the wort), but my 
damn pot isn't big enough to hold it all.  Originally, I'd planned to 
monitor the temperature with my thermometer, but I broke the $%#^& thing 
while preparing the yeast.

I decided to add Lactose based on the reports of a few readers, who 
maintained that the recipe for "Cherries in the Snow" in TCJOHB was a bit 
dry.  Besides, I like sweet beer.

Now the wort is happily fermenting away, on its way to becoming beer.  
After a couple days, I'll transfer it (sans cherries and hops) to a 
secondary where I expect it'll stay for quite a while, maybe as long as 6 - 
8 weeks.  I'm looking forward to this beer so much, I'm having trouble 
relaxing.  Maybe I just need a homebrew...


=-=-=-=-==-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From Digest #443:

	Mike Fertsch wants to talk about crazy drinking laws.  HA!  Anybody 
who's ever lived in Utah can really tell you about insane, incomprehensible 
laws.  Not only are they bizarre and complex, they're in a constant state 
of change.  Every year they rewrite the laws, so nobody ever really knows 
what the current law is.  And get this:  Homebrewing beer is legal only for 
those who've purchased a $1000 permit!!  [There must be an awful lot of 
criminals in Salt Lake City, since there are two homebrew supply shops right
in town. ;-)]


			Chuck "I need a cherry beer NOW" Coronella

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Date: Fri, 22 Jun 90 10:59:52 PDT
From: Dave Suurballe <hsfmsh.UUCP!suurb at cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Fastest Beer Judge


Say, we haven't heard from Chuck Cox lately.  I wonder if that's because
he's hanging his head in shame after losing his "fastest" title last
week in California.

Suurb, the gossip monger


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #447, 06/26/90
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